my concern is that they are only going to be interested in our youngsters who are good whilst we will only get their youngsters who they don't think are any good and if they have a decent young player who they want to send out on loan, like Ince, are they going to send them to a League 1 club. Will be interesting to see how/if this develops.
My first readings into this were that we might be considered by them as some form of feeder club (I sincerely hope not). As Large Addick said I will be concerned that they get all our best players and we get their less desirable products. If something comes of it, it would be nice if Liverpool were to send us some decent quality fringe players who can hopefully benefit Charlton Athletic in a very positive way next season. In fairness to both clubs though- I will withold total judgement until if/when something is announced.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]my concern is that they are only going to be interested in our youngsters who are good whilst we will only get their youngsters who they don't think are any good and if they have a decent young player who they want to send out on loan, like Ince, are they going to send them to a League 1 club. Will be interesting to see how/if this develops.
There are loads of examples of Championship/Premiership players who were loaned out when they were 17/18 and are now of a good standard. Examples connected to us include Scott Parker and Jermain Defoe, and Man Utd send out pretty much every one of their young players to Antwerp nowadays. Simply not true to say teams only loan out players who aren't good. It's normally the success of that loan spell which determines how good they'll be in the future. So we could have some hits and some misses from this if it does happen.
This also differs from our previous tie-ups in that it's with a club in the same country.
I'd much rather try and put a positive spin on this than a negative one. If nothing happens, so what. If something does happen, we could get first priority on loaning their promising youngsters.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]my concern is that they are only going to be interested in our youngsters who are good whilst we will only get their youngsters who they don't think are any good and if they have a decent young player who they want to send out on loan, like Ince, are they going to send them to a League 1 club. Will be interesting to see how/if this develops.
There are loads of examples of Championship/Premiership players who were loaned out when they were 17/18 and are now of a good standard. Examples connected to us include Scott Parker and Jermain Defoe, and Man Utd send out pretty much every one of their young players to Antwerp nowadays. Simply not true to say teams only loan out players who aren't good. It's normally the success of that loan spell which determines how good they'll be in the future. So we could have some hits and some misses from this if it does happen.
This also differs from our previous tie-ups in that it's with a club in the same country.
I'd much rather try and put a positive spin on this than a negative one. If nothing happens, so what. If something does happen, we could get first priority on loaning their promising youngsters.
I think people are right to be sceptical until players start to arrive and we see their quality.
I don't want to be anyone's feeder team but there are a lot of potential positives.
1. Access to their youth and fringe players on decent terms ie low or no loan fees/wages.
2. Friendlies (anyone remember beating them post Heysel?)
3. Boost to our own youth recruitment - not only will they have more chance of playing in the first team with us but if they are really good they can still be picked up by the likes of Man U (McGinty) or Liverpool (Shelvey).
But I'll believe it when I see a Liverpool player has signed for us on the OS.
We'll have to wait and see what comes our way from Liverpool before we can really judge it. I will only embrace it if it really benefits us. All the other tie ups have come to virtually nothing, and what worries me is that these have been with much bigger clubs, so far easier for them to flex their muscles, and remind us of that fact, when they feel the need.
I'd like to know the detail of the tie up.. I presume Liverpool have first priority with all our future talents?
What's our side of the bargain?
Agree with addick1965... Nothing better than seeing your own home grown, flourish in your OWN team...
Not sure I'm that excited about the prospect of filling the squad with more loans, but that’s looking the case.
Another wait & see….
Hopefully they can give us some of their money to help us out odf debt so we can become a better training centre for preserving their future talent. O wait no they can't afford to pay off Benetitez who most Liverpool fans would have seen sacked after they were knocked out the Champions league. Hopefully this will help us but if Liverpool have no money to help us out how are they benefitting. I spose i just dont know the ins and outs of it.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]my concern is that they are only going to be interested in our youngsters who are good whilst we will only get their youngsters who they don't think are any good and if they have a decent young player who they want to send out on loan, like Ince, are they going to send them to a League 1 club. Will be interesting to see how/if this develops.
There are loads of examples of Championship/Premiership players who were loaned out when they were 17/18 and are now of a good standard. Examples connected to us include Scott Parker and Jermain Defoe, and Man Utd send out pretty much every one of their young players to Antwerp nowadays. Simply not true to say teams only loan out players who aren't good. It's normally the success of that loan spell which determines how good they'll be in the future. So we could have some hits and some misses from this if it does happen.
This also differs from our previous tie-ups in that it's with a club in the same country.
I'd much rather try and put a positive spin on this than a negative one. If nothing happens, so what. If something does happen, we could get first priority on loaning their promising youngsters.
I think people are right to be sceptical until players start to arrive and we see their quality.
I don't want to be anyone's feeder team but there are a lot of potential positives.
1. Access to their youth and fringe players on decent terms ie low or no loan fees/wages.
2. Friendlies (anyone remember beating them post Heysel?)
3. Boost to our own youth recruitment - not only will they have more chance of playing in the first team with us but if they are really good they can still be picked up by the likes of Man U (McGinty) or Liverpool (Shelvey).
But I'll believe it when I see a Liverpool player has signed for us on the OS.
I understand peoples' scepticism in terms of whether we'll get any decent players on loan, I just don't see how anything that bad can come of it. Liverpool can poach our young players regardless of whether we have an official link-up with them.
If we get anyone from them it'll probably be 18/19 year olds on their first or second pro contract. So players they see something in but have doubts about, but maybe a loan will help them push on.
Of course it could end up like the Inter deal in that if Benitez goes and/or Liverpool are taken over the new people won't be interested in the link up.
I hope we don't lose any promising players to them before they're even old enough to get close to our first team, like McGinty going to Man Utd last year. I suppose that could happen anyway, just Liverpool might have the first option and keep a closer eye on our youth players.
There's usually a few stand out players in each year and it would be disappointing to see Liverpool just pick these players out. They're going to be far cheaper at 15 than 18, and £500k here and there is worth a gamble for clubs like Liverpool. It's also decent money for us for someone at the very least a year or two from the first team.
This is their way of paying us only half what Jonjo's actually worth. I'd imagine we would have pointed to the offer that Chelsea made last season, Liverpool would have told us that he hadn't played this season so was a gamble for them and somewhere down the line in negotiations this would have been mentioned. We some to love these 'tie-ups' - they never amount to anything but I suppose are good PR for the club.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]I heard today that Jay Spearing Allegedly is moving this way next season dont know how true it is but he is good enough for us i reckon
To put a positive spin on this when we had the tie ups with Inter and Valencia we were in the Prem so maybe the kind of players that we'd want weren't the kind they'd want to release (although a young A. Pirlo was out on loan from Internazionale to Perugia the year that deal was in place). With Liverpool we're going to be a couple of leagues below them and so could probably have a use for players that they can't use.
On a negative side at the moment it is an "agree to agree". Something that will be put in place at a later date. In deal negotiations it's a complete no-no, usually something you feed a mug to make them feel better that they're getting the thin end of the wedge. My attitude would always be - if you're prepared to add this to the deal, let's do it now, while we're round the table - if they won't do that then they probably don't intend to agree it in the future either.
I had a look and at the moment that have Spearing on loan at Leicester, Stephen Darby on loan at Swindon, Threlfall on loan at Bradford, and striker Nathan Eccleston on loan at Huddersfield.
Spearing was their youth team captain but is 21 now, if he's not made a breakthrough yet surely they'd be looking to get rid of him.
The thought of being the developing ground for another club fills me with complete dread, but i think there is one key reason to this link up that hasn't been picked up.
Next season, we will need to get our wage bill down to the bare minimum possible. This potentially appears to give us the option of getting a couple of players in on wages we will only be paying a minimal percentage on, if any at all, and without any loan fee.
Another benefit could be that if a Liverpool player does well here but they decide he's not quite good enough for their first team and release him then it puts us in a better position to sign the player on a permanent basis.
I think we're all getting a bit carried away here thinking we'll get the next Carragher and Gerrard on loan all season. It's probably something that was briefly mentioned that Charlton have announced to appease us fans, when in actual fact Liverpool have no intention at all of giving us anyone.
NLA - if Spearing is currently at Leicester (a promotion chasing championship side) there's surely no chance of getting him next season if we're stuck in league one as that will be a step down for the lads progress?
That's a good point AFKA. Only worry about that is if we stay down we could then have a very young side. We could struggle if 4/5 players starting are our young players and a couple of Liverpools.
If we go up that shouldn't be an issue.
No doubt if we get a Liverpool player and he doesn't impress straight away, someone will say why aren't we playing our own young players.
Think we can only have a maximum of 3 players from one club anyway, and they have anumber of agreements with clubs (Leicester and Swindon too I believe). I don't hope for much but if we get 1 or 2 players who improve on what we have it's better than nothing I suppose
A plastic scouse fan sits near me at work (He's never been to Anfield, was not born in Liverpool) and is harping on about us now being nothing more than a feeder club and how we've been ripped off. I'm giving serious consideration to putting his head through my 'puter screen.
Jay Spearing is quite highly rated up there I think. Remember people thinking he might make the first team, so if we got him on loan...we'd probably ruin him ;-)
[cite]Posted By: BigRedEvil[/cite]Jay Spearing is quite highly rated up there I think. Remember people thinking he might make the first team, so if we got him on loan...we'd probably ruin him ;-)
Isn't that just Liverpool fans getting overexcited as they haven't really had anyone break through in years? As said he's 21, if he hasn't got close to their first team now he probably never will.
Comments
I would rather have a team of local bred talent than a team of Liverpool fringe first team players on loan who will sod off as soon as they hit form.
But only time will tell on this one
Nothing has been agreed and I expect it to be forgotten about in a few months.
Though maybe we could get a friendly out of it.
Though if we got a few decent loans out of it for a season then that won't be a bad thing
There are loads of examples of Championship/Premiership players who were loaned out when they were 17/18 and are now of a good standard. Examples connected to us include Scott Parker and Jermain Defoe, and Man Utd send out pretty much every one of their young players to Antwerp nowadays. Simply not true to say teams only loan out players who aren't good. It's normally the success of that loan spell which determines how good they'll be in the future. So we could have some hits and some misses from this if it does happen.
This also differs from our previous tie-ups in that it's with a club in the same country.
I'd much rather try and put a positive spin on this than a negative one. If nothing happens, so what. If something does happen, we could get first priority on loaning their promising youngsters.
I think people are right to be sceptical until players start to arrive and we see their quality.
I don't want to be anyone's feeder team but there are a lot of potential positives.
1. Access to their youth and fringe players on decent terms ie low or no loan fees/wages.
2. Friendlies (anyone remember beating them post Heysel?)
3. Boost to our own youth recruitment - not only will they have more chance of playing in the first team with us but if they are really good they can still be picked up by the likes of Man U (McGinty) or Liverpool (Shelvey).
But I'll believe it when I see a Liverpool player has signed for us on the OS.
I'd like to know the detail of the tie up.. I presume Liverpool have first priority with all our future talents?
What's our side of the bargain?
Agree with addick1965... Nothing better than seeing your own home grown, flourish in your OWN team...
Not sure I'm that excited about the prospect of filling the squad with more loans, but that’s looking the case.
Another wait & see….
I understand peoples' scepticism in terms of whether we'll get any decent players on loan, I just don't see how anything that bad can come of it. Liverpool can poach our young players regardless of whether we have an official link-up with them.
Of course it could end up like the Inter deal in that if Benitez goes and/or Liverpool are taken over the new people won't be interested in the link up.
I hope we don't lose any promising players to them before they're even old enough to get close to our first team, like McGinty going to Man Utd last year. I suppose that could happen anyway, just Liverpool might have the first option and keep a closer eye on our youth players.
There's usually a few stand out players in each year and it would be disappointing to see Liverpool just pick these players out. They're going to be far cheaper at 15 than 18, and £500k here and there is worth a gamble for clubs like Liverpool. It's also decent money for us for someone at the very least a year or two from the first team.
Who he? Never heard of him
On a negative side at the moment it is an "agree to agree". Something that will be put in place at a later date. In deal negotiations it's a complete no-no, usually something you feed a mug to make them feel better that they're getting the thin end of the wedge. My attitude would always be - if you're prepared to add this to the deal, let's do it now, while we're round the table - if they won't do that then they probably don't intend to agree it in the future either.
Spearing was their youth team captain but is 21 now, if he's not made a breakthrough yet surely they'd be looking to get rid of him.
Next season, we will need to get our wage bill down to the bare minimum possible. This potentially appears to give us the option of getting a couple of players in on wages we will only be paying a minimal percentage on, if any at all, and without any loan fee.
NLA - if Spearing is currently at Leicester (a promotion chasing championship side) there's surely no chance of getting him next season if we're stuck in league one as that will be a step down for the lads progress?
If we go up that shouldn't be an issue.
No doubt if we get a Liverpool player and he doesn't impress straight away, someone will say why aren't we playing our own young players.