fulham managed it,bolton managed it. i love charlton with all my heart like yourself,but just once be nice to have a pleasant surprise,maybe do what cardiff done getting to wembley ,win a derby match even.
we won 2 derby matches the year we helped them mugs into football oblivion .....
if you expected us to beat leeds in the first play off replay and sunderland you surprise me , those were the greatest moments ever and the sheer joy relief and pleasure will never be surpassed unless we win the premiership ... winning the championship wasn't as good as them two history defining matches !
every club has had derby wins every club has stayed up by a amazing win most clubs can make a play off ,winning the championship,they had a big chance to do it with style .............they creeped over the line without anyone taking a blind bit of notice,no clinching it with a late goal nope.look im only going by my feelings i think its quite short of great memories
[cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]just once be nice to have a pleasant surprise,maybe do what cardiff done getting to wembley
Yep, Cardiff did brilliantly to get to the FA Cup final ..... quite likely the first time they've been to Wembley since 1927.
And after they got relegated in 1962 or whenever, exactly how many top flight seasons have they had since?
More than Charlton ......?
Sure, they used to qualify for the European Cup Winners Cup, season after season (except when Wrexham qualified instead).
How did they do it? Simples, they sent their reserve side out to win the Welsh Cup.
[cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]win a derby match even
We're all sore at losing at The New Dump, Nolly ..... and we should have beaten them at home without conceding an equaliser in the last minute of time added on. But hey, that's football.
Guess you weren't around for the "Morts in the snow" match? But we don't forget.
We even managed to lose at home to Orient, but we did beat them away. Or do Orient not count as a Derby match?
We've beaten Palarse a few times also, over the years. And West Ham, Chel$ki, Arse, Fulham, Spuds, ....... even Brentford, lol
But you never know what's round the corner, Nolly.
Our turn may come again, and maybe when it's least expected?
Sillav, with the greatest respect mate, I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying.
You said we had spent most of the last 40 years in the 2nd and 3rd tiers combined. I'm saying we've spent most of it in the 1st and 2nd tiers COMBINED.
Of course the bulk of that time has been in the 2nd tier, but you are emphasising the 4 years in the 3rd tier over the 12 years in the 1st tier. That's where we are now, of course, but you can't just dismiss the top tier years just because we are low now.
So, to answer your original question, we don't ALWAYS fall short.
premiership years are on atm sky sports 4 2001/2 season ... take a look nolly the teams we were mixing it with unbelievable not to be seen again in our lifetimes but we were there ... we finished 16th that season leeds finished 5th and soton 11th ....
agree off it and i can't believe nolly is trying to talk it down ........
we've got to grin and bare these rough times but i genuinely believe these rough times hurt so much more cos they've arrived so close to the good(smooth) times!
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]agree off it and i can't believe nolly is trying to talk it down ........
we've got to grin and bare these rough times but i genuinely believe these rough times hurt so much more cos they've arrived so close to the good(smooth) times!
Agreed.
Back in the early seventies and eighties when we dropped to division 3 it was not as large a gulf and for the most part we had struggled against relegation in division 2 anyway with the odd exception.
Being only 24 most of my time as a Charlton fan have been good times. I'm fully prepared for a few years slumming it in the doldrums.
But having been there to see my team win at Anfield, Highbury, Stamford Bridge, Wembley, White Hart Lane and Selhurst Park I'd say I'm very much in credit. I'll always be grateful to the management and players that provided those victories and those who got us there in the first place. If only we'd won at Old Trafford!
In answer to the original question...because we aren't especially good. We overspent on wages during the better years (28k a week and all that) so now have to rely on free-transfers and home grown players with little experience. Has Parkinson ever paid a transfer fee for a player? (serious question....I can't think of one as I write) So it's not as if he's been able to go out and get the players he wants. Bet if you asked him who was on his realistic shopping list in the summer (i.e not Messi or Tom Hovi), he wouldn't have come up with Akpo, Mooney, Llera, Borrowdale etc (not knocking them by the way....they've done ok). So Millwall are having the time of their lives (well...since Cascarino & Sherringham at least) but they just happen to have one of the best centre backs in the division (Darren Ward) and one of the best centre forwards (Neil Harris) so there was always a chance they would come good if the others lifted their game (which they have). Even the great Lennie Lawrence needed to spend money (in 1985) to transform the team from also rans into winners, so in my book, Phil has done ok. How did anyone expect us to win automatic promotion with free-transfers, a rookie in goal and only one proven goalscorer in the squad (am I talking about Burton or McLeod??). Yes we have Bailey and Dailly....but the others haven't got much pedigree really so on balance I think we're doing ok still to be in with a shout of going up (be it automatic or play-off). Gone are the days when we could pay £700k for a Mendonca or £2.5m for a Varney(!!!!!!) so it's Deon and Forster for now and let's get on with it. If you can't handle being an underdog, perhaps Charlton isn't the club for you....but if you can, you'll have a lot of fun as well as anguish!
The football league is a zero sum total game - for some one to suceed another has to fail.
I believe each club has a natural level predicated on the financial support available which for those of us without billionaire owners is mainly down to the fan base. A team may achieve above and below this natural level - have a good manager who gets a journey men side to have a few years of sucess - but the pendulum always swings back.
Given the size of our support and available finances I would argue that in the last 40 years we have overachieved (using Oggy's stats).
i'm so f**ked off, we missed a great opportunity today. with both milwall and leeds losing we could have put ourselves in the box seat but bl**dy predictably, we fall short again!
i just have a very very uneasy feeling that Saints scored a 90th minute winner with 10 men to keep them very much in the play off hunt with the 4 games they have left.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]oh god, it's "Mr I've spent 40 years watching us get turned over every week in the third division" again!
if you're not disappointed with todays result off_it then that's disappointing? i'm only stating the obvious, that had we won today, then we'd have been sitting pretty, with leeds to come to the valley. norwich arrive at the valley on the back of a defeat at leyton orient and some poor form, missing their top scorer, in holt, as well as hoolahan and we still can't beat them. so another let down, which has been my experience, of supporting charlton.
if you've supported charlton as long as i have and i'm not saying that, as some badge of honour, it's just a fact, (and by the way off_it, how long have you been a supporter?) and seen as many charlton games as i have, then sadly but true, i've seen more disappointments, than joyous occasions and so i'm just stating another fact, in my experience but perhaps not in yours?
I didn't see you coming on here posting that we had "fallen short" when we beat Colchester though. Football teams lose games - ALL football teams lose games. If you want to come on here every time we lose saying we have fallen short agian then you go for it mate, whatever floats your boat.
We're all disappointed that we didn't win today given the performance and and the other results - why wouldn't I be? So yes, you are stating the obvious.
You seem to be saying that supporting Charlton is one let down after another. Yes we lose games. But unless you support one of the big boys then EVERYONE loses games, so why beat yourself up about it? Up to you, of course - but will you do me a favour? If by some miracle we do get promoted this year will you come on here to acknowledge that this season wouldn't have been such a complete let down after all? Deal?
you didn't answer my question off_it, how long have you supported the team?
imho, my views and understanding about charlton are fashioned, obviously, by my experience of supporting them! i first went to the valley and began my support in the early to mid sixties and back then we were a second division side and up until the the play off final of 98, their wasn't a lot to cheer. so most of my experience are based on that. and a lot of that time we were fighting relegation battles, with the 68/69 season (i think) being an exception. the lennie and curbs era came much later but those few years in the old 1st and prem divisions and they are only a few years in comparison to the long years of 2nd division football but as
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]In other words we knew no better!
and that is so true.
i've followed this team through thick and thin. i contributed to buying ronnie moore. i was there when they announced we were quitting our home. i followed them to sellout park and to upton park. i was there when they announced we were going back home. i was there when we beat portsmouth, through colin walsh's goal.
and i've stayed a supporter but there's no doubt it's been a stressful and emotional roller coaster of a ride and i wish it could be a bit simpler and smoother.
yesterday's defeat was not in my thinking, just another game of football, there was a lot riding on it and whether we get promoted or not will greatly affect the stability of the club and that's my worry?
and of course i'll be on hear congratulating the team if we get promoted, that's what i want and the financial stability that will hopefully allow this club to go forward and not backwards into decline.
[cite]Posted By: sillav nitram[/cite]you didn't answer my question off_it, how long have you supported the team?
Already have mate, see post number 3 on this thread.
For what it's worth, Keith Peacock scored the winner in my first game, I was there for the Ronnie Moore whip round, there again when we were handed "that" piece of paper at the turnstiles, missed only one home game in the Selhurst/Upton Park eras (went to both the 800 crowd games), was at St Andrews for the Leeds game, was at Woolwich Town Hall and have missed probably only a single figure number of home games in the last 25 years. Also went to both Anglo Italian cup away games - not that I can remember much about them, was completely battered! I like to think I've done my time.
But you have just said that from the mid-60's "up until the the play off final of 98, their wasn't a lot to cheer" and that simple isn't true. There were the promotion seasons of the early 70's, 80/81 and 85/6, the unforgettable night at St Andrews, beating Man U at Old trafford in the first season back up - and again at home a few years later, smashing 5 past Man City, the fantastic draw at Highbury when we'd just hear "THE" news, turning over those cocky buggers from Chelsea 3-0 with THAT goal from the legend that is Paul Mortimer, THE RETURN TO THE VALLEY - I could go on, but I think you get the picture. In my view we don't ALWAYS fall short, to answer your original question again.
There have been plenty of fantastic times supporting Charlton, although to be fair there have been some dark times too. It's all part of it though, surely? It's why we do it and why we don't just support the likes of Man U from our armchairs.
I'm not having a pop at you - so please don't think that I am - and I share your frustration and disappointment. But I'm not prepared to simply write off those great memories I have just because we've had a rum old few years. Keep the faith - when did we ever do things the easy way?
Comments
if you expected us to beat leeds in the first play off replay and sunderland you surprise me , those were the greatest moments ever and the sheer joy relief and pleasure will never be surpassed unless we win the premiership ... winning the championship wasn't as good as them two history defining matches !
Yep, Cardiff did brilliantly to get to the FA Cup final ..... quite likely the first time they've been to Wembley since 1927.
And after they got relegated in 1962 or whenever, exactly how many top flight seasons have they had since?
More than Charlton ......?
Sure, they used to qualify for the European Cup Winners Cup, season after season (except when Wrexham qualified instead).
How did they do it? Simples, they sent their reserve side out to win the Welsh Cup.
We're all sore at losing at The New Dump, Nolly ..... and we should have beaten them at home without conceding an equaliser in the last minute of time added on. But hey, that's football.
Guess you weren't around for the "Morts in the snow" match? But we don't forget.
We even managed to lose at home to Orient, but we did beat them away. Or do Orient not count as a Derby match?
We've beaten Palarse a few times also, over the years. And West Ham, Chel$ki, Arse, Fulham, Spuds, ....... even Brentford, lol
But you never know what's round the corner, Nolly.
Our turn may come again, and maybe when it's least expected?
You said we had spent most of the last 40 years in the 2nd and 3rd tiers combined. I'm saying we've spent most of it in the 1st and 2nd tiers COMBINED.
Of course the bulk of that time has been in the 2nd tier, but you are emphasising the 4 years in the 3rd tier over the 12 years in the 1st tier. That's where we are now, of course, but you can't just dismiss the top tier years just because we are low now.
So, to answer your original question, we don't ALWAYS fall short.
All that "we need to push on" pony. Push onto where exactly, with our team, resources, ground capacity, etc, etc.?
We've had some "smooth" and it's now our turn to take some "rough" - and boy are we getting it.
we've got to grin and bare these rough times but i genuinely believe these rough times hurt so much more cos they've arrived so close to the good(smooth) times!
Agreed.
Back in the early seventies and eighties when we dropped to division 3 it was not as large a gulf and for the most part we had struggled against relegation in division 2 anyway with the odd exception.
In other words we knew no better!
No point constantly looking back though, but equally it's wrong just to dismiss them days in the sun.
Couldnt agree more. We just gotta stick with it and the good times will return!
But having been there to see my team win at Anfield, Highbury, Stamford Bridge, Wembley, White Hart Lane and Selhurst Park I'd say I'm very much in credit. I'll always be grateful to the management and players that provided those victories and those who got us there in the first place. If only we'd won at Old Trafford!
we did on 30th august 1986 , no excuses not being there;-)
I believe each club has a natural level predicated on the financial support available which for those of us without billionaire owners is mainly down to the fan base. A team may achieve above and below this natural level - have a good manager who gets a journey men side to have a few years of sucess - but the pendulum always swings back.
Given the size of our support and available finances I would argue that in the last 40 years we have overachieved (using Oggy's stats).
if you're not disappointed with todays result off_it then that's disappointing? i'm only stating the obvious, that had we won today, then we'd have been sitting pretty, with leeds to come to the valley. norwich arrive at the valley on the back of a defeat at leyton orient and some poor form, missing their top scorer, in holt, as well as hoolahan and we still can't beat them. so another let down, which has been my experience, of supporting charlton.
if you've supported charlton as long as i have and i'm not saying that, as some badge of honour, it's just a fact, (and by the way off_it, how long have you been a supporter?) and seen as many charlton games as i have, then sadly but true, i've seen more disappointments, than joyous occasions and so i'm just stating another fact, in my experience but perhaps not in yours?
We're all disappointed that we didn't win today given the performance and and the other results - why wouldn't I be? So yes, you are stating the obvious.
You seem to be saying that supporting Charlton is one let down after another. Yes we lose games. But unless you support one of the big boys then EVERYONE loses games, so why beat yourself up about it? Up to you, of course - but will you do me a favour? If by some miracle we do get promoted this year will you come on here to acknowledge that this season wouldn't have been such a complete let down after all? Deal?
imho, my views and understanding about charlton are fashioned, obviously, by my experience of supporting them! i first went to the valley and began my support in the early to mid sixties and back then we were a second division side and up until the the play off final of 98, their wasn't a lot to cheer. so most of my experience are based on that. and a lot of that time we were fighting relegation battles, with the 68/69 season (i think) being an exception. the lennie and curbs era came much later but those few years in the old 1st and prem divisions and they are only a few years in comparison to the long years of 2nd division football but as and that is so true.
i've followed this team through thick and thin. i contributed to buying ronnie moore. i was there when they announced we were quitting our home. i followed them to sellout park and to upton park. i was there when they announced we were going back home. i was there when we beat portsmouth, through colin walsh's goal.
and i've stayed a supporter but there's no doubt it's been a stressful and emotional roller coaster of a ride and i wish it could be a bit simpler and smoother.
yesterday's defeat was not in my thinking, just another game of football, there was a lot riding on it and whether we get promoted or not will greatly affect the stability of the club and that's my worry?
and of course i'll be on hear congratulating the team if we get promoted, that's what i want and the financial stability that will hopefully allow this club to go forward and not backwards into decline.
Feels like its been fast forward into decline to me.
Already have mate, see post number 3 on this thread.
For what it's worth, Keith Peacock scored the winner in my first game, I was there for the Ronnie Moore whip round, there again when we were handed "that" piece of paper at the turnstiles, missed only one home game in the Selhurst/Upton Park eras (went to both the 800 crowd games), was at St Andrews for the Leeds game, was at Woolwich Town Hall and have missed probably only a single figure number of home games in the last 25 years. Also went to both Anglo Italian cup away games - not that I can remember much about them, was completely battered! I like to think I've done my time.
But you have just said that from the mid-60's "up until the the play off final of 98, their wasn't a lot to cheer" and that simple isn't true. There were the promotion seasons of the early 70's, 80/81 and 85/6, the unforgettable night at St Andrews, beating Man U at Old trafford in the first season back up - and again at home a few years later, smashing 5 past Man City, the fantastic draw at Highbury when we'd just hear "THE" news, turning over those cocky buggers from Chelsea 3-0 with THAT goal from the legend that is Paul Mortimer, THE RETURN TO THE VALLEY - I could go on, but I think you get the picture. In my view we don't ALWAYS fall short, to answer your original question again.
There have been plenty of fantastic times supporting Charlton, although to be fair there have been some dark times too. It's all part of it though, surely? It's why we do it and why we don't just support the likes of Man U from our armchairs.
I'm not having a pop at you - so please don't think that I am - and I share your frustration and disappointment. But I'm not prepared to simply write off those great memories I have just because we've had a rum old few years. Keep the faith - when did we ever do things the easy way?