"Like most of what you say on here Sparrows Lane just made up rubbish to justify a bunch of meat heads beating up some other meat heads and getting hard on's thinking about it."
Most of my posts have not been made up rubbish! I didn't justify meatheads fighting meatheads either.
Oh & Ben, this is from the Telegraph:
"The roots of such sentiment reside in events of 83 years ago, when an antipathy developed between two shipyards on either side of the Thames.
To the north you had the workforce of the Royal docks (drenched in the claret-and-blue of West Ham) and to the south, the Millwall, London and Surrey docks (Millwall 'til they died). When the Millwall shipyard broke the 1926 dockers' strike, the outrage over the water raised tensions to tipping point.
The significance of the strike, while often invoked, can be overstated. The decline of the docks, coupled with the divergence in league positions of West Ham and Millwall, meant that the two clubs hardly bothered one another in the Thirties and Forties."
That's a very quick source, I'm sure there are more. Made up by Millwall fans in the 90's? Did you make something else up? Why would Millwall fans make up something about them being scabs?
Sorry but no that's not a contemporary source. It has no references and it is post 1990s. IMHO someone in the Telegraph has picked up on the post 1990s myth and repeated it.
Where are the references from the 1960s or even the 1920s when this was meant to have happened?
Even if we accept that there is some truth to it what doesn't add up is that all Millwall fans were scabs in 1926 and all West Hams kept the strike. Not everyone in the Millwall Docks would have even been a Millwall fan. Plenty would have been West Ham fans or supporters of no club at all.
Sorry but it's a manufactured myth made up recently to justify the violence and hatred.
Most of the London dockers were solidly behind the strike. The 'scabs' were imported from other areas and were supported by the military.
However ... as with you ... I cannot recall my sources for this information ... if I get time I will look them up ... but to be honest it's probably a waste of time as you will ignore it anyway, preferring to believe the 'war' between Hamsters and yourselves.
[cite]Posted By: OhsouthLondon[/cite]West Ham do consider them as "the" rivals.
Think they have more fun with their proper sized rivals like Tottenham,Chelsea and Arsenal mind.
the west ham friends that i have say they enjoy giving millwall the run around but consider spurs more of their rival but are happy to acknowledge that millwall do consider them as their rivals and take it as a tribute but as they play them twice a decade,they just have bigger fish to fry.
It's a story that has been around for as long as I can remember, however I am young!All I see it as is a story/legend/myth that adds to fabric of the rivalry, but doesn't really hold much resonance for me, or many other Millwall fans. West Ham fans like to tell it, we generally don't.
Not sure why Henry gets his knickers in such a twist over it though. Why does it affect him so much? As for justification of violence, then he is talking rubbish. I have never heard that as a justification of violence between the two sets of supporters.
My granddad who worked on the docks said that back then (40's & 50's), Millwall & west ham all worked on the docks and used to visit eachothers games, there was just banter etc. So if there was no violence between them then, why would the docks story have sparked violence or been used as a justification of violence?
As for the reasons for the rivalry and violence, it doesn't have anything to do with the "strike". The reasons are much more clearer than that, south vs east in general and mob on mob.
who cares blimey, stick to the subject. no i would never wear a millwall, palace or any other shirt!
My lil bro who is 6 got a Tottenham top, Man u & Arsenal the other day, i was not pleased and told him i was well annoyed.... he thought was funny! but seriously it did piss me off!!
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]I'd rather not believe it, why would I?
It's a story that has been around for as long as I can remember, however I am young!All I see it as is a story/legend/myth that adds to fabric of the rivalry, but doesn't really hold much resonance for me, or many other Millwall fans. West Ham fans like to tell it, we generally don't.
Funny that because the only people I hear talking about it are the millwall fans on here
[cite]Posted By: johnnybev1987[/cite]who cares blimey, stick to the subject. no i would never wear a millwall, palace or any other shirt!
My lil bro who is 6 got a Tottenham top, Man u & Arsenal the other day, i was not pleased and told him i was well annoyed.... he thought was funny! but seriously it did piss me off!!
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]I'd rather not believe it, why would I?
It's a story that has been around for as long as I can remember, however I am young!All I see it as is a story/legend/myth that adds to fabric of the rivalry, but doesn't really hold much resonance for me, or many other Millwall fans. West Ham fans like to tell it, we generally don't.
Not sure why Henry gets his knickers in such a twist over it though. Why does it affect him so much? As for justification of violence, then he is talking rubbish. I have never heard that as a justification of violence between the two sets of supporters.
My granddad who worked on the docks said that back then (40's & 50's), Millwall & west ham all worked on the docks and used to visit eachothers games, there was just banter etc. So if there was no violence between them then, why would the docks story have sparked violence or been used as a justification of violence?
As for the reasons for the rivalry and violence, it doesn't have anything to do with the "strike". The reasons are much more clearer than that, south vs east in general and mob on mob.
Dont really care massivly about your rivalry with west ham as far as i am concerened, as a young Charlton fan i dont like Millwall but you are not my most hated club and none of my mates would disagree with me here. Its all about Palace for us, they are the real scum, you guys are just a league one club trying to be bigger than you are good luck to you matey.
Now stop all the sniping guys and get back on topic. Just answer the original post!
[cite]Posted By: That Scottish one Weegie[/cite]Danny Baker's big idea for Sport Relief - wear the shirt of your fiercest rival. So do we think there will be any takers for this on Sat?! Millwall shirts in the away end, and Charlton shirts in home areas? Hmmmm.
We made one of our lot wear a palace shirt on his stag do, much more embarrassing than having to dress up as a woman. Can't imagine why you would wear one other than being forced to, Danny baker is a fat twat who long ago stopped living in the real world.
Dont really care massivly about your rivalry with west ham as far as i am concerened, as a young Charlton fan i dont like Millwall but you are not my most hated club and none of my mates would disagree with me here. Its all about Palace for us, they are the real scum, you guys are just a league one club trying to be bigger than you are good luck to you matey.[/quote]
We know what we are, a 3rd division club who sometimes enjoys some success in the 2nd division, looking at the size of us we're a big club in this league and a small club in the league above. That's that really. Won't be able to get a bite from many Millwall if your digs are about us being small, we all know it!
Not surprised that younger Charlton see Palace as their main rivals and most hated. Similarly younger Arsenal see United as their most hated, and younger west ham look at Tottenham.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]
We know what we are, a 3rd division club who sometimes enjoys some success in the 2nd division, looking at the size of us we're a big club in this league
ROFLMFAO
Thank feck I finished my tea before reading that, I value my keyboard. )
Dont really care massivly about your rivalry with west ham as far as i am concerened, as a young Charlton fan i dont like Millwall but you are not my most hated club and none of my mates would disagree with me here. Its all about Palace for us, they are the real scum, you guys are just a league one club trying to be bigger than you are good luck to you matey.
We know what we are, a 3rd division club who sometimes enjoys some success in the 2nd division, looking at the size of us we're a big club in this league and a small club in the league above. That's that really. Won't be able to get a bite from many Millwall if your digs are about us being small, we all know it!
Not surprised that younger Charlton see Palace as their main rivals and most hated. Similarly younger Arsenal see United as their most hated, and younger west ham look at Tottenham.
Dont look for bites from what i say mate i was just making a point and your reaction has surprised me i wish every Millwall fan i had met was like you unfortunatly they are not and have let your club down but hey its all about here and now and you seem to have your head screwed on the right way mate. I also see your point about other clubs younger fans getting new main rivals if you like. Millwall, annoy me but i dont really consider them our main rivals one of them yes but they are not the main ones it will always be palace for me. Let me guess Millwall pay Palace no attention atall, actually what is Millwall's opinion on palace always wanted to ask a Millwall fan that?
Theres not much of Palace to pay attention to really, apart from the what was it 300 odd that went to the Den when they played? And the 3,000 of them crying in the 90th minute. ;o)
One of the best games ever, boxing day, Chubby Browns song Alice was played just before the teams come out with the Alice bit muted as the whole crowd sang "palace, palace, who the fuck are palace?"
They weren't happy. Nor were they happy when we thrashed them and for the last 20 minutes Millwall booed every pass & tackle made by Millwall players, and cheered every Palace touch.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Palace? Palace? Who the fuck are palace?
One of the best games ever, boxing day, Chubby Browns song Alice was played just before the teams come out with the Alice bit muted as the whole crowd sang "palace, palace, who the fuck are palace?"
They weren't happy. Nor were they happy when we thrashed them and for the last 20 minutes Millwall booed every pass & tackle made by Millwall players, and cheered every Palace touch.
[cite]Posted By: Groucho78MFC[/cite]F**k palace.
Does that answer your question Ru1986?
LOL thanks Groucho very Millwall lol. Sparrows lion i think that roy chubby brown song thing sounds hillarious and when we next play them i might take that up to the covered end for the palace games :-)
Blimey. Apologies everyone - this is about the most off-topic thread since AFKA's one about the need to keep on topic.
To answer my own question, I'd find it impossible to wear a Millwall shirt but impossibly impossible to wear a Palarse one. Just thinking about it makes me cringe. Made me realise that in my heart of hearts I hate Palarse even more than Millwall - must be due to those Selhurst years.
Comments
Sh*t is what they are. Chimaira FC - Kent Suburban 1st Division.
"Like most of what you say on here Sparrows Lane just made up rubbish to justify a bunch of meat heads beating up some other meat heads and getting hard on's thinking about it."
Most of my posts have not been made up rubbish!
I didn't justify meatheads fighting meatheads either.
Oh & Ben, this is from the Telegraph:
"The roots of such sentiment reside in events of 83 years ago, when an antipathy developed between two shipyards on either side of the Thames.
To the north you had the workforce of the Royal docks (drenched in the claret-and-blue of West Ham) and to the south, the Millwall, London and Surrey docks (Millwall 'til they died). When the Millwall shipyard broke the 1926 dockers' strike, the outrage over the water raised tensions to tipping point.
The significance of the strike, while often invoked, can be overstated. The decline of the docks, coupled with the divergence in league positions of West Ham and Millwall, meant that the two clubs hardly bothered one another in the Thirties and Forties."
That's a very quick source, I'm sure there are more. Made up by Millwall fans in the 90's? Did you make something else up? Why would Millwall fans make up something about them being scabs?
Where are the references from the 1960s or even the 1920s when this was meant to have happened?
Even if we accept that there is some truth to it what doesn't add up is that all Millwall fans were scabs in 1926 and all West Hams kept the strike. Not everyone in the Millwall Docks would have even been a Millwall fan. Plenty would have been West Ham fans or supporters of no club at all.
Sorry but it's a manufactured myth made up recently to justify the violence and hatred.
Most of the London dockers were solidly behind the strike. The 'scabs' were imported from other areas and were supported by the military.
However ... as with you ... I cannot recall my sources for this information ... if I get time I will look them up ... but to be honest it's probably a waste of time as you will ignore it anyway, preferring to believe the 'war' between Hamsters and yourselves.
Exactly
It's a story that has been around for as long as I can remember, however I am young!All I see it as is a story/legend/myth that adds to fabric of the rivalry, but doesn't really hold much resonance for me, or many other Millwall fans. West Ham fans like to tell it, we generally don't.
Not sure why Henry gets his knickers in such a twist over it though. Why does it affect him so much? As for justification of violence, then he is talking rubbish. I have never heard that as a justification of violence between the two sets of supporters.
My granddad who worked on the docks said that back then (40's & 50's), Millwall & west ham all worked on the docks and used to visit eachothers games, there was just banter etc. So if there was no violence between them then, why would the docks story have sparked violence or been used as a justification of violence?
As for the reasons for the rivalry and violence, it doesn't have anything to do with the "strike". The reasons are much more clearer than that, south vs east in general and mob on mob.
My lil bro who is 6 got a Tottenham top, Man u & Arsenal the other day, i was not pleased and told him i was well annoyed.... he thought was funny! but seriously it did piss me off!!
Funny that because the only people I hear talking about it are the millwall fans on here
Dont really care massivly about your rivalry with west ham as far as i am concerened, as a young Charlton fan i dont like Millwall but you are not my most hated club and none of my mates would disagree with me here. Its all about Palace for us, they are the real scum, you guys are just a league one club trying to be bigger than you are good luck to you matey.
Dont really care massivly about your rivalry with west ham as far as i am concerened, as a young Charlton fan i dont like Millwall but you are not my most hated club and none of my mates would disagree with me here. Its all about Palace for us, they are the real scum, you guys are just a league one club trying to be bigger than you are good luck to you matey.[/quote]
We know what we are, a 3rd division club who sometimes enjoys some success in the 2nd division, looking at the size of us we're a big club in this league and a small club in the league above. That's that really. Won't be able to get a bite from many Millwall if your digs are about us being small, we all know it!
Not surprised that younger Charlton see Palace as their main rivals and most hated. Similarly younger Arsenal see United as their most hated, and younger west ham look at Tottenham.
ROFLMFAO
Thank feck I finished my tea before reading that, I value my keyboard.
Dont look for bites from what i say mate i was just making a point and your reaction has surprised me i wish every Millwall fan i had met was like you unfortunatly they are not and have let your club down but hey its all about here and now and you seem to have your head screwed on the right way mate. I also see your point about other clubs younger fans getting new main rivals if you like. Millwall, annoy me but i dont really consider them our main rivals one of them yes but they are not the main ones it will always be palace for me. Let me guess Millwall pay Palace no attention atall, actually what is Millwall's opinion on palace always wanted to ask a Millwall fan that?
One of the best games ever, boxing day, Chubby Browns song Alice was played just before the teams come out with the Alice bit muted as the whole crowd sang "palace, palace, who the fuck are palace?"
They weren't happy. Nor were they happy when we thrashed them and for the last 20 minutes Millwall booed every pass & tackle made by Millwall players, and cheered every Palace touch.
Does that answer your question Ru1986?
Eight.
LOL thanks Groucho very Millwall lol. Sparrows lion i think that roy chubby brown song thing sounds hillarious and when we next play them i might take that up to the covered end for the palace games :-)
To answer my own question, I'd find it impossible to wear a Millwall shirt but impossibly impossible to wear a Palarse one. Just thinking about it makes me cringe. Made me realise that in my heart of hearts I hate Palarse even more than Millwall - must be due to those Selhurst years.
Will Danny Baker be there on Saturday?