I lost a bit of faith in the common sense of the running of the club at the start of the season when i was told i had missed the deadline to pay for a full ST in monthly installments by 4 days.
Whilst my own fault for missing the deadline it meant that i couldnt afford the lump sum up front and therefore have paid on a ticket per game basis. Fine when i attend but for the games ive not attended theyve not received any revenue which in our our current financial position doesnt seem like good economics.
Just an opinion but I doubt the tickets for any of the home games would be reduced purely on the basis they are now on sale. Do not think the admin involved and bad PR of having 2 sets of process would be something the club will entertain. Very surprised therefore that Steve Waggott will raise it again with the Board, especially as it was stated over a month ago it would be raised with the board.
Agree fully with AFKA comments regarding the Carlisle game should have been the game for cheap tickets. When Target 10,000 was in operation the Easter games always had reduced prices and we saw some big gates e.g. Luton in 95/96 and Reading 97/98 (as well as Huddersfield in 96/97 before it was called off due to international call ups).
[cite]Posted By: JohnnyH2[/cite]Just an opinion but I doubt the tickets for any of the home games would be reduced purely on the basis they are now on sale. Do not think the admin involved and bad PR of having 2 sets of process would be something the club will entertain.
It's not like it's noly just been announced the season is ending. The club have had plenty of time.
I will await discussions tomorrow night, but as has been suggested it is extremely unlikely that we would reduce ticket prices for a match at this point or make an offer that disadvantages people who have already bought. I've had no communication from Steve Waggott about what was discussed at the fans' forum meeting and to my knowledge neither has anyone else with an involvement with tickets or the marketing of them.
[cite]Posted By: Stu of HU5[/cite]Nobody is moaning about the fact you are though.
I can only speak for myself and for me it is very alarming that over the last month the club has done nothing at all to try and get people to these games, even a letter/email to ex-season ticket holders mights get a few extra bums in seats but they havnt even managed that.
Point of order, we did send out about 33,000 emails and wrote to all fans with a significant purchase history and no email address about these matches - at my instigation. The issues on pricing are a bit more complicated than is being suggested, because we will get significant extra income from more paying spectators against Norwich and Leeds anyway. In reality this has to be balanced against the perceived benefit of potentially getting a larger crowd. We would have to reduce away prices too. And we have to set prices in advance of knowing the circumstances.
I'm not saying that nothing could have been tried, but I'm not convinced ideas would have been adopted by the board in the present circumstances because of the overriding financial issue.
[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite]I will await discussions tomorrow night, but as has been suggested it is extremely unlikely that we would reduce ticket prices for a match at this point or make an offer that disadvantages people who have already bought. I've had no communication from Steve Waggott about what was discussed at the fans' forum meeting and to my knowledge neither has anyone else with an involvement with tickets or the marketing of them.
In response to Alex Wright and to Rick's post .... last night was not an official Fans' Forum meeting with the Club. It was me and Steve Waggott meeting to establish progress, if any, against the points raised and actions agreed at the last official meeting on 2nd March. Like many of you, I was unhappy at the lack of progress and asked Steve for a meeting to create the opportunity to stir things up ... and that is what I did last night. Our meeting had previously been scheduled for before Easter, but it didn't happen due to Steve's (lack of) availability around the end of the loan window.
WSS ... if I am being palmed off, so be it. At least I'm happy that there is something that requires palming off rather than this "it's all too late" mantra. It may well be too late ... in which case I have wasted some personal energy and free time. I can live with that.
On the other hand, why don't we use our network, our contacts and our overwhelming passion for this Club to get the stadium filled for the next three home games irrespective of whether the tickets are cheap or not?
Maybe you are being palmed off because the intention at the last meeting was to demand to know the reasons why we werent 10 points clear at the top of the league...
Oh and giving the West Stand toilets the once over with some Jif Lemon.
Other people have made the points above but I as a season ticket holder wouldnt have given a monkeys if the club had of done a buy one get one free type deal for Carlise and Col U. Get 20.000 in the ground spending money on other things and maybe they might come back for Norwich and Leeds at full price.
[cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]Maybe you are being palmed off because the intention at the last meeting was to demand to know the reasons why we werent 10 points clear at the top of the league...
Oh and giving the West Stand toilets the once over with some Jif Lemon.
Other people have made the points above but I as a season ticket holder wouldnt have given a monkeys if the club had of done a buy one get one free type deal for Carlise and Col U. Get 20.000 in the ground spending money on other things and maybe they might come back for Norwich and Leeds at full price.
Wasted opportunity...
I was one of the main people who pioneered the £5 ticket promotions in the mid-1990s, so don't think these things aren't in our minds, but I also know the financial/political situation at the club and the dysfunctional way the structure operates. There are arguments for and against price promotions, but when I put an idea forward in January it was shot down on the basis that we would get big crowds for the last three games and only reduce revenue by cutting prices.
Rightly or wrongly, I don't think a subsequent proposal would even have reached the board.
This is a club that is desperate for cash but hasn't sold its hospitality season tickets for next season because the senior member of staff who took on responsibility to do so has been "too busy" to get on with it. For two months. It's not going to have a rational debate about ticket offers.
Airman Brown says : 'but I also know the financial/political situation at the club and the dysfunctional way the structure operates' and 'this is a club that is desperate for cash but hasn't sold its hospitality season tickets for next season because the senior member of staff who took on responsibility to do so has been "too busy" to get on with it. For two months.'
Always thought that as the last 3 home games would be so big it would have been an idea to do a 'buy 2 get 1 free' offer or something. I know its not really possible as season ticket holders have paid more etc but the prospect of bigger crowds is huge. Mainly due to the fact it would create increased revenue from programmes, drinks, food, club shop etc.
am I the only one who thinks the mess of a supporters club is part of the problem here?
The Forum is supposed to do a certain job, and that doesn't include mobilizing the fan base, its also appointed by the club - that however is in no way a criticism of the members.
What can be done to get CASC back into shape, and keep it that way?
MK Dons were pushing a cheap match ticket offer to season-ticket holders, which is potentially a way round the bind of undercutting the ST offer in the first place. However, it's inevitable that season-ticket holders will know people who aren't STs but attend regularly anyway, so you will undercut that part of your revenue and it then becomes a question of what you add.
I accept there is another issue about filling the ground and creating an atmosphere. The argument about programmes, food and drink doesn't necessarily stack up as we estimate the average marginal profit (not revenue) per person on all this to be about £1 (based on averaged spend of existing fans and known costs). That means if you increase the crowd by 10,000 you might get an extra £10k profit in ancillary spending, but your ticket pricing would have to be at least neutral in effect to actually earn that money. And the effect of any ticket price reduction represents an unknown and requires a decision to be made.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]am I the only one who thinks the mess of a supporters club is part of the problem here?
The Forum is supposed to do a certain job, and that doesn't include mobilizing the fan base, its also appointed by the club - that however is in no way a criticism of the members.
What can be done to get CASC back into shape, and keep it that way?
Exactly why isnt it the forums job to mobilise the fan base? I would have thought that was very high up on their remit.
I can't find a summary of their remit on their website, or their aims etc
However it isn't elected by fans, and as far as I know replaced the Supporters Director as a way of the club listening to fans views - hence the name Forum.
Whether it can or should replace or take on the role that would more traditionally be that of a supporters club I am not sure i.e. hold the club to account, organise/mobilise fan action/support.
Our remit is to act as a communication link between fans and Club. We try to convey general opinions and issues to the Club, and then we try to report back to fans with the Club's response. The original scope was to cover any subject matter of interest to fans (and, yes, that includes hot water in the West Stand, potholes in the car park and the size of the hot dogs), but not to include 'football matters'. That last part was mainly to ensure that we didn't get into any debate along the lines of "why is Basey not starting at left back ahead of Youga?" etc.
Thankfully we have been able to blur the boundaries quite a bit since our inception in October 2008 and have dealt with a whole host of 'football matters'. The Fans' Forum believe that these are the things that supporters are most interested in.
Are we here to mobilise the fan base? I would say that we can play a part ... but no more so than any other group of fans. We are simply fans ... yes, originally appointed by the Club, but only on the basis that the six of us were prepared to get up off our backsides. We are nothing to do with the Club and are not constrained in our approach or our views by anything the Club might tell us to do.
It makes me laugh when people say that we were not elected. While that's true, so what? Our aim is to represent the general views of fans. If we do that, it doesn't matter whether we were elected or not. And, if the majority feel that we don't represent the general views of fans, let us know and we'll change our position or disappear from whence we came.
What we are NOT here to do is carry out any dirty work that many others may choose to avoid. So, we are not going to fix the existing rifts among the branches of the Supporters Club. We are not going to run any Supporters Trust. We are not going to take over vote collection for the Player of the Year event. But we are quite prepared to help all or any of those things along ... as a group of fans who, on behalf of all supporters, have the facility of direct communication to the Club.
We bought 5 extra with us on Monday but did sell it on being a bankholiday etc. And intend to rally troops for both Norwich and Leeds for sure. AT 17 and 5 quid respectively they are still very good value.
Some clarity on the issue of reducing ticket prices, which I think it's fair to put in the public domain in the context of earlier discussions. David White (director) has said that the idea of reducing prices for some end-of-season games was discussed a few weeks back by the board but rejected, partly because of the need to make decisions early when circumstances were unclear.
No such proposals were put to the Target 40k meeting tonight by Steve W or anyone else and no recommendations relating to these games will be made to the board as a result of the meeting. The Fans' Forum is represented on the T40,000 committee and I'm sure can verify that.
[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite]
No such proposals were put to the Target 40k meeting tonight by Steve W or anyone else and no recommendations relating to these games will be made to the board as a result of the meeting. The Fans' Forum is represented on the T40,000 committee and I'm sure can verify that.
This is disappointing news. I was at the Supporters Club 'Player of the Year' planning meeting this evening, so could not attend the Target 40,000 meeting, but the Fans' Forum reps who did attend were keen to ensure that the Club did whatever possible to fill the stadium for the final three home games.
Are you saying that this was not discussed? Or was it discussed, but rejected?
I think, and this is no reflection on your work Dave, or Suzi's or anyone else on the FF, that you may have to accept that the FF was introduced as a committee to appease the fans and kid us that we still actually have links with the hierachy at our club.
the issues mentioned here were raised and discussed last night as Airman knows as he chaired the meeting.
The fans forum may not be perfect but it does have a great deal of contact with the hierarchy as last nights two meetings show.
The statement about people being too busy is misleading also. To busy selling 6557 STs. The hospility tickets are still to be added to that. Maybe the had o
There seems to me an inherent problem which in no way reflects on what I consider to be very hard work on our behalf by the Fans Forum. All our views are 'filtered' before they reach the board. If, for example, SW is actually part of the structural problems, we have no means of reaching those parts of the board where it matters most. The loss of the Fan's Director severed the links and I agree with WSS that fans were merely thrown a few crumbs of comfort to give an illusion of representation.
DOn't think that to be the case stilladdicted, board members read this site and others similar and i can imagine are a lot more in touch with 'supporters views' than most other clubs.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]the issues mentioned here were raised and discussed last night as Airman knows as he chaired the meeting.
Feedback this morning from the Fans' Forum reps who were at the meeting suggests that the Club is happy with the fact that we will get upwards of 16,000 for Colchester and 21,000+ for Norwich and Leeds. As I mentioned, I wasn't at the Target 40,000 meeting but my question would have been "why isn't the Club targetting 27,000?"
There has been lots of talk on this thread about wasted opportunities. Until last night, I firmly believed that some opportunity still existed. Looks like I was wrong.
"Happy" isn't quite the word I'd use, but for example there are security issues with the Leeds match that will impact on home ticket sales and I do not think our regular supporters would thank us for relaxing the restrictions these necessitate. There will be few comps for Norwich and Leeds, therefore we start from a lower base in the first place.
What is clear is that the original fans' forum input led to a discussion at board level and it was decided to take no action. This was reported back last night. Dave's belief that SW would put proposals last night and that these might lead to recommendations was misplaced as SW had nothing whatosever to say on the subject at the meeting, although Dave White disclosed that it had previously been considered by the board and there was a discussion among other committee members around that.
My personal view is that the board probably came to the right decision in not cutting prices at that time, although if it was a serious consideration it's surprising that it wasn't discussed with me or other senior staff, because as Henry knows that's how it usually works and we may have been able to make suggestions. I'm not complaining about that, simply pointing out that the original FF input with SW appears to have triggered a board discussion, when I'd assumed because I hadn't heard anything that none had taken place.
On the hospitality, Henry has simply misunderstood. The delay has nothing to do with Dave Archer and the commercial centre staff being busy with ordinary season ticket sales, because the job of contacting hospitality customers was taken out of that area completely. It was felt they should have a personal contact and originally Peter Varney had offered to call each holder and see whether they might be interested in a longer hospitality deal. Obviously five-year hospitality is a considerable sum and someone who might make that commitment is an important contact.
When Peter resigned from the board, the job was assigned to Steve Waggott, who to be clear has played no part whatsoever in handling ordinary season ticket sale (and as chief executive you wouldn't expect him to do so). He has not been able to make the calls over the last two months so this week it has been handed back to Dave Archer and the team in the commercial centre, who are probably better suited because they will know the people they are calling. It's not the case that Dave couldn't have made those calls over the last two months, because we haven't been frantic with season ticket sales until the immediate run-up to the deadline. It's simply that he wasn't allowed to do so.
Can I ask why SW hasn't been able to make calls in the last couple of months as the hospitality deals obviously bring it allot of revenue, revenue which we could definitely do with at the moment. So surely this should have been one of his top priorities?
most of us, if assigned a particular job, hadn't made a single phone call in two months as we'd been instructed to do, would be sacked. Not much of a Chief Exec if he couldn't even delegate the job to someone else or speak to Dave Archer and ask for his assistance.
I'm happy to report that I have now received more insight into last night's Target 40,000 meeting and can state that some of the points proposed by the Fans' Forum will be taken on board by the Club.
Specifically we have suggested that the Club needs to realise the importance of filling the stadium for these next three home matches. Cheap tickets may or may not be the answer, but we want the Club to use whatever means it has at its disposal to fill the ground. We need Matt Wright to communicate a rallying call on the OS and in the Bulletin, we need fans to contact mates and family who have lapsed this season and get them back to The Valley for the remaining games to counteract the 3000 that Norwich and Leeds will bring. We felt that ideas like a three game ticket for £30 to existing ticket holders might have done the trick. We know from recent chat that many existing season ticket holders would not be upset by mates getting a cheap ticket for these last three games, so we do not want the Club to hide behind that.
The Fans' Forum now understands that reduced ticket prices are not seen as a viable option for reasons that have been stated earlier in this thread. However, we can confirm that there will be a rallying call from the Club, we hope from Richard Murray, and we ask all supporters to respond to this in the way that we have suggested - by ensuring that lapsed fans rekindle their love affair with the Club. Brothers, sisters, mates and neighbours ... you know who they are. Tell them that the team needs you (and your noise) against Colchester, Norwich and Leeds.
We've had the talk. Now it's time for a bit of action.
Comments
Whilst my own fault for missing the deadline it meant that i couldnt afford the lump sum up front and therefore have paid on a ticket per game basis. Fine when i attend but for the games ive not attended theyve not received any revenue which in our our current financial position doesnt seem like good economics.
Was last nights meeting an official fans forum meeting?
When is the next official FF meeting?
Cheers
Agree fully with AFKA comments regarding the Carlisle game should have been the game for cheap tickets. When Target 10,000 was in operation the Easter games always had reduced prices and we saw some big gates e.g. Luton in 95/96 and Reading 97/98 (as well as Huddersfield in 96/97 before it was called off due to international call ups).
It's not like it's noly just been announced the season is ending. The club have had plenty of time.
Point of order, we did send out about 33,000 emails and wrote to all fans with a significant purchase history and no email address about these matches - at my instigation. The issues on pricing are a bit more complicated than is being suggested, because we will get significant extra income from more paying spectators against Norwich and Leeds anyway. In reality this has to be balanced against the perceived benefit of potentially getting a larger crowd. We would have to reduce away prices too. And we have to set prices in advance of knowing the circumstances.
I'm not saying that nothing could have been tried, but I'm not convinced ideas would have been adopted by the board in the present circumstances because of the overriding financial issue.
In response to Alex Wright and to Rick's post .... last night was not an official Fans' Forum meeting with the Club. It was me and Steve Waggott meeting to establish progress, if any, against the points raised and actions agreed at the last official meeting on 2nd March. Like many of you, I was unhappy at the lack of progress and asked Steve for a meeting to create the opportunity to stir things up ... and that is what I did last night. Our meeting had previously been scheduled for before Easter, but it didn't happen due to Steve's (lack of) availability around the end of the loan window.
WSS ... if I am being palmed off, so be it. At least I'm happy that there is something that requires palming off rather than this "it's all too late" mantra. It may well be too late ... in which case I have wasted some personal energy and free time. I can live with that.
On the other hand, why don't we use our network, our contacts and our overwhelming passion for this Club to get the stadium filled for the next three home games irrespective of whether the tickets are cheap or not?
Oh and giving the West Stand toilets the once over with some Jif Lemon.
Other people have made the points above but I as a season ticket holder wouldnt have given a monkeys if the club had of done a buy one get one free type deal for Carlise and Col U. Get 20.000 in the ground spending money on other things and maybe they might come back for Norwich and Leeds at full price.
Wasted opportunity...
I was one of the main people who pioneered the £5 ticket promotions in the mid-1990s, so don't think these things aren't in our minds, but I also know the financial/political situation at the club and the dysfunctional way the structure operates. There are arguments for and against price promotions, but when I put an idea forward in January it was shot down on the basis that we would get big crowds for the last three games and only reduce revenue by cutting prices.
Rightly or wrongly, I don't think a subsequent proposal would even have reached the board.
This is a club that is desperate for cash but hasn't sold its hospitality season tickets for next season because the senior member of staff who took on responsibility to do so has been "too busy" to get on with it. For two months. It's not going to have a rational debate about ticket offers.
Very worrying comments in my opinion.
The Forum is supposed to do a certain job, and that doesn't include mobilizing the fan base, its also appointed by the club - that however is in no way a criticism of the members.
What can be done to get CASC back into shape, and keep it that way?
I accept there is another issue about filling the ground and creating an atmosphere. The argument about programmes, food and drink doesn't necessarily stack up as we estimate the average marginal profit (not revenue) per person on all this to be about £1 (based on averaged spend of existing fans and known costs). That means if you increase the crowd by 10,000 you might get an extra £10k profit in ancillary spending, but your ticket pricing would have to be at least neutral in effect to actually earn that money. And the effect of any ticket price reduction represents an unknown and requires a decision to be made.
Exactly why isnt it the forums job to mobilise the fan base? I would have thought that was very high up on their remit.
However it isn't elected by fans, and as far as I know replaced the Supporters Director as a way of the club listening to fans views - hence the name Forum.
Whether it can or should replace or take on the role that would more traditionally be that of a supporters club I am not sure i.e. hold the club to account, organise/mobilise fan action/support.
Thankfully we have been able to blur the boundaries quite a bit since our inception in October 2008 and have dealt with a whole host of 'football matters'. The Fans' Forum believe that these are the things that supporters are most interested in.
Are we here to mobilise the fan base? I would say that we can play a part ... but no more so than any other group of fans. We are simply fans ... yes, originally appointed by the Club, but only on the basis that the six of us were prepared to get up off our backsides. We are nothing to do with the Club and are not constrained in our approach or our views by anything the Club might tell us to do.
It makes me laugh when people say that we were not elected. While that's true, so what? Our aim is to represent the general views of fans. If we do that, it doesn't matter whether we were elected or not. And, if the majority feel that we don't represent the general views of fans, let us know and we'll change our position or disappear from whence we came.
What we are NOT here to do is carry out any dirty work that many others may choose to avoid. So, we are not going to fix the existing rifts among the branches of the Supporters Club. We are not going to run any Supporters Trust. We are not going to take over vote collection for the Player of the Year event. But we are quite prepared to help all or any of those things along ... as a group of fans who, on behalf of all supporters, have the facility of direct communication to the Club.
No such proposals were put to the Target 40k meeting tonight by Steve W or anyone else and no recommendations relating to these games will be made to the board as a result of the meeting. The Fans' Forum is represented on the T40,000 committee and I'm sure can verify that.
This is disappointing news. I was at the Supporters Club 'Player of the Year' planning meeting this evening, so could not attend the Target 40,000 meeting, but the Fans' Forum reps who did attend were keen to ensure that the Club did whatever possible to fill the stadium for the final three home games.
Are you saying that this was not discussed? Or was it discussed, but rejected?
I think, and this is no reflection on your work Dave, or Suzi's or anyone else on the FF, that you may have to accept that the FF was introduced as a committee to appease the fans and kid us that we still actually have links with the hierachy at our club.
The fans forum may not be perfect but it does have a great deal of contact with the hierarchy as last nights two meetings show.
The statement about people being too busy is misleading also. To busy selling 6557 STs. The hospility tickets are still to be added to that. Maybe the had o
Feedback this morning from the Fans' Forum reps who were at the meeting suggests that the Club is happy with the fact that we will get upwards of 16,000 for Colchester and 21,000+ for Norwich and Leeds. As I mentioned, I wasn't at the Target 40,000 meeting but my question would have been "why isn't the Club targetting 27,000?"
There has been lots of talk on this thread about wasted opportunities. Until last night, I firmly believed that some opportunity still existed. Looks like I was wrong.
What is clear is that the original fans' forum input led to a discussion at board level and it was decided to take no action. This was reported back last night. Dave's belief that SW would put proposals last night and that these might lead to recommendations was misplaced as SW had nothing whatosever to say on the subject at the meeting, although Dave White disclosed that it had previously been considered by the board and there was a discussion among other committee members around that.
My personal view is that the board probably came to the right decision in not cutting prices at that time, although if it was a serious consideration it's surprising that it wasn't discussed with me or other senior staff, because as Henry knows that's how it usually works and we may have been able to make suggestions. I'm not complaining about that, simply pointing out that the original FF input with SW appears to have triggered a board discussion, when I'd assumed because I hadn't heard anything that none had taken place.
On the hospitality, Henry has simply misunderstood. The delay has nothing to do with Dave Archer and the commercial centre staff being busy with ordinary season ticket sales, because the job of contacting hospitality customers was taken out of that area completely. It was felt they should have a personal contact and originally Peter Varney had offered to call each holder and see whether they might be interested in a longer hospitality deal. Obviously five-year hospitality is a considerable sum and someone who might make that commitment is an important contact.
When Peter resigned from the board, the job was assigned to Steve Waggott, who to be clear has played no part whatsoever in handling ordinary season ticket sale (and as chief executive you wouldn't expect him to do so). He has not been able to make the calls over the last two months so this week it has been handed back to Dave Archer and the team in the commercial centre, who are probably better suited because they will know the people they are calling. It's not the case that Dave couldn't have made those calls over the last two months, because we haven't been frantic with season ticket sales until the immediate run-up to the deadline. It's simply that he wasn't allowed to do so.
Specifically we have suggested that the Club needs to realise the importance of filling the stadium for these next three home matches. Cheap tickets may or may not be the answer, but we want the Club to use whatever means it has at its disposal to fill the ground. We need Matt Wright to communicate a rallying call on the OS and in the Bulletin, we need fans to contact mates and family who have lapsed this season and get them back to The Valley for the remaining games to counteract the 3000 that Norwich and Leeds will bring. We felt that ideas like a three game ticket for £30 to existing ticket holders might have done the trick. We know from recent chat that many existing season ticket holders would not be upset by mates getting a cheap ticket for these last three games, so we do not want the Club to hide behind that.
The Fans' Forum now understands that reduced ticket prices are not seen as a viable option for reasons that have been stated earlier in this thread. However, we can confirm that there will be a rallying call from the Club, we hope from Richard Murray, and we ask all supporters to respond to this in the way that we have suggested - by ensuring that lapsed fans rekindle their love affair with the Club. Brothers, sisters, mates and neighbours ... you know who they are. Tell them that the team needs you (and your noise) against Colchester, Norwich and Leeds.
We've had the talk. Now it's time for a bit of action.