[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite]Good meeting last night, although only Steve Waggott was able to represent the Club. We'll try to get some notes out asap, but one key message is that spirit of AFKA's rallying call yesterday was fully embraced by Steve and will be taken to the Board on Thursday. It fits beautifully with what Phil Parkinson wants from the fans.
In short, ladies and gentlemen, you have been selected to play your part in the remaining 12 games ... you will be wearing the metaphorical No 12 shirt (apologies to Grant Basey) and will be expected to deliver top class performances, home and away, to power us back to the Championship. I want to know if you are carrying any slight niggles, but expect you to run it off and not let it hinder you doing what you do best ... that is, getting behind the team, helping to fill the stadium, making a ridiculous amount of noise and generally putting the fear of Christ up the opposition.
How badly do you want it?
Happy to form part of the proverbial '12th man'...just make sure that the 11 on the pitch turn up down the Den!
Let's show the Club and all who sail in her that we are willing to pull out all the stops - then it's up to the players to play their part in the battle for promotion & survival .[/quote]
[cite]Posted By: Fanny Fanackapan[/cite]Very badly, Dave ! I think I tick all the above boxes but will examine my conscience to see whether I can do more.
I tried to post on here yesterday prior to the meeting but had some probs. I was going to echo AFKA's "rallying call" on all fronts but with special reference to the empty seats at The Valley. I understand that Rick & Wendy are in touch with ALL schools in relevant parts of Kent, with LBs of Bexley, Greenwich and probably Bromley. Is this one contact per season or could flyers be sent out to everyone concerned targetting specific matches ? A further option would be for parents of school aged kids to approach the Head of their school(s) to encourage participation in a matchday experience, possibly with the assistance of a document downloaded from the OS outlining the positives of the offer.
I also applaud the idea of incentives for existing supporters if they bring a newbie along to a match. I can't believe that something along these lines hasn't already been discussed by the Target 40,000 committee....
Finally, I can remember standing outside Dartford Station some years back , handing out leaflets to commuters to drum up business ( for football !!) when Target 10,000 was the name of the game. When we met with Steve Waggott & Stephen Kavanagh last season , I indicated that I ( and I'm sure others) would volunteer to assist the Club in these difficult times if a need arose and now, this could be addressing flyers to "lapsed" fans via the database , or in fact, giving out such again directly to the public. Some may feel that the former would encourage the idea of laying off more Club employees but, as AFKA rightly stated, these are difficult & hopefully unique times.
Let's show the Club and all who sail in her that we are willing to pull out all the stops - then it's up to the players to play their part in the battle for promotion & survival .
I think the ideas expressed need to be put in some kind of perspective. The club development team consists of two FTE (four part-time staff) and delivers Valley Express, Valley Away, Young Addicks, as well as the marketing of season tickets and match tickets and some odds and ends such as DVDs. As well as reduced staffing, there is little or no budget for print. We no longer pay for advertising, although we have been able to do some deals. Nevertheless, we are proactive in our contacts with schools across five London boroughs and Dartford, Sevenoaks and Gravesham districts of Kent as well as with a range of groups form further afield. Over and above that is the work done by the community scheme near and far, which is also supported by match tickets.
We have 11 NW Kent and 28 Bromley primary schools coming in on comps on Saturday. We have significant numbers of paying groups coming to the Gillingham, Norwich and Leeds games, for which we have closed down the comps arrangement.
In general, what we've found in the last few seasons is that we can no longer price people in, because the "product" isn't good enough. Limited offers of £5 tickets to particular groups have not attracted extra people in and the general offer of £10 tickets last season made no significant impact. We have to work within Football League rules in terms of offering equivalent prices to away supporters. We also have to maintain the perceived value of a season ticket. Finally, there will always be a level of substitution of existing full price sales, i.e. people who would come anyway taking advantage of the cheap offer - and this particularly applies to bring a friend offers. We could live with this in the past; we can't at the moment. Even if it was true that sacrificing, say, £10k for a particular game would provide a full stadium - and the evidence is that it wouldn't, but you couldn't know - I doubt if the proposal would get as far as the board.
While we would welcome more active participation by supporters and I suggested, for example, that if supporters in Ashford wish to promote the club then we will do what we can to help, you are not going to find many people outside Dartford station who will decide to come to a Third Division match against Stockport County because you give them a leaflet, so it's not a very effective use of volunteer resources. However, within the next week we should be in a position to launch our targeted email service, which is a much more efficient way of reaching those most likely to decide to come.
Of course, we'd all like a full stadium, but the inference that it's the fault of the staff because they haven't thought or bothered to do things they have been doing for years is a bit unfortunate. The issues are a whole lot more complicated than that, which isn't to say that we've got all the answers either.
I'm not sure that anyone is too bothered about 'fault', whether inferred or stated outright. The spirit of AFKA's post yesterday, and the way in which the Fans' Forum explained things to Steve Waggott last night was very much along the lines of 'what can the fans do, what can the Fans' Forum do, what can any of us do to help the Club at this critical time'?
If, as we know, the Club is short of resource and budget, maybe fans can help with one or other of those? We must have a lot of printers, for example, among the fanbase. Of course, we then need to use any available resource and budget appropriately - and I take your point about the likely success rate of some of the ideas proposed - but that isn't what this is about. This is about looking for positive steps forward, not apportioning any blame or finding reasons not to do certain things.
3) In the wake of recent disappointing results, the Club needs to make a statement about the future. What happens if we do not secure promotion this season? Richard Murray has been quoted as saying that promotion is 'imperative'. As automatic promotion is now looking increasingly unlikely, and the play-offs bring no guarantees, how is the Club planning to deal with any failure to achieve what is regarded as 'imperative'?
With AFKA on this one.
6) 'Boots for Africa' campaign - can the Club donate anything (eg from academy players who may have outgrown their old boots)?
Dont agree with this one. We Should be Giving out old boots ect to people in SE London and kent who may need them. These are people that could then end up supporting us and maybe in the future be spending money following us.
Airman - I do hope you didn't think I was being critical of the work that you & your dept do so admirably. It's good to hear that schools are responding to the contacts you make & look forward to seeing fewer empty seats on Saturday.
However, I believe you missed my point regarding "standing outside Dartford station " ....I was merely using this as an example as to how volunteers have assisted in the past which I hope is something you would not deride. We do what we can to help our Club, even though we neither receive nor ask for any recompense. My aim was to indicate Steve Waggott's interest in the possibility of using such "free" offers of help in the future but with the imminent launch of your targeted email service, addressing envelopes will obviously not be required.
Having been firmly put in my place, I guess I'll stick to doing what I do best....whatever that may be.
Personally I feel the support in Ashford is immense. Fair enough there are less going up on the coach every week....3 coaches to every game when we were in the Premiership to just 1 now. But there is still a thriving support. Plenty drive up, myself included. I know of quite a few fans who don't go to games....maybe they are the ones that should be targeted. But I have no idea how to do it....something in the KM Express perhaps?
[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite]5) Lack of hot water in the West Upper stand. Is this a general problem and is the Club aware?
Sorry I know this has been raised already, but why does the West Upper stand need hot water?
Some people seem to think that hot water is a basic human need. Not for the Fans' Forum to judge one way or another, but we were asked the question and so we fed it through to the Club.
The fact is that none of the stands have hot water facilities and cost precludes any new installation, so end of story really.
Whilst I appreciate a lot of the issues Airman has to deal with on v limited resources, I think we need to drop this idea that "the product isn't good enough". We're talking last 12 games in a potential promotion run-in: it could culminate in a Wembley final or in very exciting last two or three matches of the season. Let's look at the positives for once. Don't remember anyone talking about the product not being good enough back in 1975 or 1981 during the run-in!!
As a lapsed S/T holder, I've not been to as many games this season as maybe I managed four or five years ago, but I will be there for Leeds and Norwich at home, Hudddersfield away, and Oldham too if necessary. Just because you're no longer a season ticket holder doesn't mean you don't want to be part of the fun and excitement - lots of us know lots of other Charlton fans - let's do our best to encourage them to come along and do their bit at this crucial time.
Surely the kind of incentives AFKA suggests of club shop vouchers/ couple of free pints could be managed without making a loss? It's more about having a gesture to focus efforts around.
And don't underestimate the lack of news about fixtures etc now that we are in the obscure depths of division three instead of under the glaring spotlight of the Prem. I bet there are lapsed fans out there who couldn't tell you when the home games are in the run-in, how much tickets cost, how they get tickets, and who the fixtures are against, etc. I'm not suggesting a big advertising campaign - just much more focus on week by week sales for home matches. Goes right back to the start of the season when the email bulletin didn't have this info in it until about the day before the first match. Times have changed - communicating who we are playing, what tickets are available, how to get them and what they cost for HOME games - is even more important than it is for away matches.
Now that all tickets are tracked on the databasae, what about a message that you will need to have attended at least three home matches to be in with a chance for a Wembley ticket if we get there? So time's running out!
Much more can be done by all of us - Club and Fans. This is football, not financial services!!
I think it's unlikely the offer of a club shop voucher or free refreshments would get people to games they would otherwise not attend and from long experience I don't think such initiatives would be supported by the retail/catering managers either. It would be difficult to exclude regular supporters from such offers, thereby generating a cost with no marginal revenue against it.
If we remain in the play-off places - and because of away contingents in any case - we are likely to attract higher crowds for four of the last five home matches - Gillingham, Colchester, Leeds and Norwich, while Carlisle is on Easter Monday, which may or may not help. A proposal was put forward at the last Target 40,000 meeting by me for a promotional ticket covering these five matches, but it was rejected on the basis that it might cost the club revenue it would get anyway. Whatever the rights and wrongs of that, the discussion took place and it was ruled out.
While there is less national publicity, there is more local and targeted publicity than ever before, especially including the website and the Bulletin, so I am not sure that I agree about the lack of fixture news. However, I am looking at how we promote these games, beyond targeted email, through which we can reach about 28,000 people. In the end, anything that generates a cost will come down to a financial decision and it won't be mine.
Is there anything that can be done to develop some kind of rallying call that could be spread across websites like this one and other fan sites? Just don't call it an Operation ;-)
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]Appreciate what you are up against, Airman.
Is there anything that can be done to develop some kind of rallying call that could be spread across websites like this one and other fan sites? Just don't call it an Operation ;-)
Let's see what happens on the pitch in the short term. I feel it will be hard to rally anyone if we fail to beat Stockport, for example.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]Appreciate what you are up against, Airman.
Is there anything that can be done to develop some kind of rallying call that could be spread across websites like this one and other fan sites? Just don't call it an Operation ;-)
I'm hopeful that this will be the outcome of any discussion within the Club regarding the mobilisation of fans. I fully agree that we must avoid branding any such initiative as an 'operation' ... maybe we should start to offer sensible alternatives to ensure that 'operation' doesn't win by default?
[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown
Let's see what happens on the pitch in the short term. I feel it will be hard to rally anyone if we fail to beat Stockport, for example.
That's just the kind of positive attitude I was talking about ;-)
Following on from Weggies ideas in his posts - is the Red Card sophisicated enough to be used like a loyalty card (eg Tesco Clubcard)
Would it work to have an affliate scheme for Red Card holders? For example, for every full price matchday ticket a ST holder buys for a friend you get 10-20% of the tickets value as credit to spend in the clubshop, Bartrams or to come off next years ST. Same sort of thing for anyone booking Legends for the first time etc.
I appreciate Airmans comments about retail/catering managers reluctance to get involved but if it gets people in the shop/bar it would result in more sales overall wouldnt it? What about if credits could only be redeemed at least an hour before kick-off meaning hanging around spending more money?
Something like that would mean that existing ST's (rather than the newbies) would reap the benefits of bringing a mate. Would fill the a seat, get people in the club shop, raise revenue, widen the fan base, sell more pints etc.
Or if there is NO budget or appetite for any kind of general incentive, then what about a competition to win signed kit worn by the players or dinner with the player of your choice etc?
Every extra ticket purchased gives you one entry into the draw. Could include S/T renewals too. It's the kind of thing the banks are running eg Every time I use my Visa Debit card at the moment, i go into a draw to win a ticket for the World Cup. Could just communicate it through the normal channels, and ask sites like this to promote it as well.
PS Zin - the name is Weegie as in Glaswegian, as that is where I live. And I'm actually a she;-)
I like the idea that the northwich fan mentioned (in the keith alexander thread), of having an end of season, fans v 1st team game.
people could bid to get into the squad. perhaps keith peacock could take a couple of training sessions and manage the fans squad.
the match could be part of an end of season valley open day.
people might then appreciate the gap between pro and amatuer footballers, (though chris dickson has given most of us a clue).
no? thought not.
Can I just throw my hat in the ring here and compliment 'any' group of Addicks who get together and put in the time and effort to be pro active.
Some of the questions that FF ask are perhaps on the face of it a bit banal (pot holes/hot water/pies/beer/Ashford etc).....but they also ask some very pertinent questions too.
It would seem a good 'all round' question and answer session has taken place....some things being very important indeed and some not so important but all in need of answers never-the -less.
Well done to ALL concerned.
Comments
Happy to form part of the proverbial '12th man'...just make sure that the 11 on the pitch turn up down the Den!
That last bit is the part that worries me...
:-)
I think the ideas expressed need to be put in some kind of perspective. The club development team consists of two FTE (four part-time staff) and delivers Valley Express, Valley Away, Young Addicks, as well as the marketing of season tickets and match tickets and some odds and ends such as DVDs. As well as reduced staffing, there is little or no budget for print. We no longer pay for advertising, although we have been able to do some deals. Nevertheless, we are proactive in our contacts with schools across five London boroughs and Dartford, Sevenoaks and Gravesham districts of Kent as well as with a range of groups form further afield. Over and above that is the work done by the community scheme near and far, which is also supported by match tickets.
We have 11 NW Kent and 28 Bromley primary schools coming in on comps on Saturday. We have significant numbers of paying groups coming to the Gillingham, Norwich and Leeds games, for which we have closed down the comps arrangement.
In general, what we've found in the last few seasons is that we can no longer price people in, because the "product" isn't good enough. Limited offers of £5 tickets to particular groups have not attracted extra people in and the general offer of £10 tickets last season made no significant impact. We have to work within Football League rules in terms of offering equivalent prices to away supporters. We also have to maintain the perceived value of a season ticket. Finally, there will always be a level of substitution of existing full price sales, i.e. people who would come anyway taking advantage of the cheap offer - and this particularly applies to bring a friend offers. We could live with this in the past; we can't at the moment. Even if it was true that sacrificing, say, £10k for a particular game would provide a full stadium - and the evidence is that it wouldn't, but you couldn't know - I doubt if the proposal would get as far as the board.
While we would welcome more active participation by supporters and I suggested, for example, that if supporters in Ashford wish to promote the club then we will do what we can to help, you are not going to find many people outside Dartford station who will decide to come to a Third Division match against Stockport County because you give them a leaflet, so it's not a very effective use of volunteer resources. However, within the next week we should be in a position to launch our targeted email service, which is a much more efficient way of reaching those most likely to decide to come.
Of course, we'd all like a full stadium, but the inference that it's the fault of the staff because they haven't thought or bothered to do things they have been doing for years is a bit unfortunate. The issues are a whole lot more complicated than that, which isn't to say that we've got all the answers either.
I'm not sure that anyone is too bothered about 'fault', whether inferred or stated outright. The spirit of AFKA's post yesterday, and the way in which the Fans' Forum explained things to Steve Waggott last night was very much along the lines of 'what can the fans do, what can the Fans' Forum do, what can any of us do to help the Club at this critical time'?
If, as we know, the Club is short of resource and budget, maybe fans can help with one or other of those? We must have a lot of printers, for example, among the fanbase. Of course, we then need to use any available resource and budget appropriately - and I take your point about the likely success rate of some of the ideas proposed - but that isn't what this is about. This is about looking for positive steps forward, not apportioning any blame or finding reasons not to do certain things.
With AFKA on this one.
6) 'Boots for Africa' campaign - can the Club donate anything (eg from academy players who may have outgrown their old boots)?
Dont agree with this one. We Should be Giving out old boots ect to people in SE London and kent who may need them. These are people that could then end up supporting us and maybe in the future be spending money following us.
However, I believe you missed my point regarding "standing outside Dartford station " ....I was merely using this as an example as to how volunteers have assisted in the past which I hope is something you would not deride. We do what we can to help our Club, even though we neither receive nor ask for any recompense. My aim was to indicate Steve Waggott's interest in the possibility of using such "free" offers of help in the future but with the imminent launch of your targeted email service, addressing envelopes will obviously not be required.
Having been firmly put in my place, I guess I'll stick to doing what I do best....whatever that may be.
I know a Dad & Son went to The Valley for the first time at the Brighton game. You can imagine the feedback from the game.
I feel for the staff trying to promote that 'product'.
Some people seem to think that hot water is a basic human need. Not for the Fans' Forum to judge one way or another, but we were asked the question and so we fed it through to the Club.
The fact is that none of the stands have hot water facilities and cost precludes any new installation, so end of story really.
Obviously I'm missing the point, but the simple answer is 'yes'.
As a lapsed S/T holder, I've not been to as many games this season as maybe I managed four or five years ago, but I will be there for Leeds and Norwich at home, Hudddersfield away, and Oldham too if necessary. Just because you're no longer a season ticket holder doesn't mean you don't want to be part of the fun and excitement - lots of us know lots of other Charlton fans - let's do our best to encourage them to come along and do their bit at this crucial time.
Surely the kind of incentives AFKA suggests of club shop vouchers/ couple of free pints could be managed without making a loss? It's more about having a gesture to focus efforts around.
And don't underestimate the lack of news about fixtures etc now that we are in the obscure depths of division three instead of under the glaring spotlight of the Prem. I bet there are lapsed fans out there who couldn't tell you when the home games are in the run-in, how much tickets cost, how they get tickets, and who the fixtures are against, etc. I'm not suggesting a big advertising campaign - just much more focus on week by week sales for home matches. Goes right back to the start of the season when the email bulletin didn't have this info in it until about the day before the first match. Times have changed - communicating who we are playing, what tickets are available, how to get them and what they cost for HOME games - is even more important than it is for away matches.
Now that all tickets are tracked on the databasae, what about a message that you will need to have attended at least three home matches to be in with a chance for a Wembley ticket if we get there? So time's running out!
Much more can be done by all of us - Club and Fans. This is football, not financial services!!
Perhaps too late to do anything about CASC but this really needs addressing in the summer in my view, they should be mobilising the troops
If we remain in the play-off places - and because of away contingents in any case - we are likely to attract higher crowds for four of the last five home matches - Gillingham, Colchester, Leeds and Norwich, while Carlisle is on Easter Monday, which may or may not help. A proposal was put forward at the last Target 40,000 meeting by me for a promotional ticket covering these five matches, but it was rejected on the basis that it might cost the club revenue it would get anyway. Whatever the rights and wrongs of that, the discussion took place and it was ruled out.
While there is less national publicity, there is more local and targeted publicity than ever before, especially including the website and the Bulletin, so I am not sure that I agree about the lack of fixture news. However, I am looking at how we promote these games, beyond targeted email, through which we can reach about 28,000 people. In the end, anything that generates a cost will come down to a financial decision and it won't be mine.
I've worked in marketing for 20 years, Raz - you should see some of the things I've had to try and sell!
Is there anything that can be done to develop some kind of rallying call that could be spread across websites like this one and other fan sites? Just don't call it an Operation ;-)
Let's see what happens on the pitch in the short term. I feel it will be hard to rally anyone if we fail to beat Stockport, for example.
I'm hopeful that this will be the outcome of any discussion within the Club regarding the mobilisation of fans. I fully agree that we must avoid branding any such initiative as an 'operation' ... maybe we should start to offer sensible alternatives to ensure that 'operation' doesn't win by default?
That's just the kind of positive attitude I was talking about ;-)
Would it work to have an affliate scheme for Red Card holders? For example, for every full price matchday ticket a ST holder buys for a friend you get 10-20% of the tickets value as credit to spend in the clubshop, Bartrams or to come off next years ST. Same sort of thing for anyone booking Legends for the first time etc.
I appreciate Airmans comments about retail/catering managers reluctance to get involved but if it gets people in the shop/bar it would result in more sales overall wouldnt it? What about if credits could only be redeemed at least an hour before kick-off meaning hanging around spending more money?
Something like that would mean that existing ST's (rather than the newbies) would reap the benefits of bringing a mate. Would fill the a seat, get people in the club shop, raise revenue, widen the fan base, sell more pints etc.
Every extra ticket purchased gives you one entry into the draw. Could include S/T renewals too. It's the kind of thing the banks are running eg Every time I use my Visa Debit card at the moment, i go into a draw to win a ticket for the World Cup. Could just communicate it through the normal channels, and ask sites like this to promote it as well.
PS Zin - the name is Weegie as in Glaswegian, as that is where I live. And I'm actually a she;-)
people could bid to get into the squad. perhaps keith peacock could take a couple of training sessions and manage the fans squad.
the match could be part of an end of season valley open day.
people might then appreciate the gap between pro and amatuer footballers, (though chris dickson has given most of us a clue).
no? thought not.
Dinnae fash yersel, as they say up here or something like that ie don't worry yourself (I've never quite picked up the accent.) You weren't to know...
;-)
Some of the questions that FF ask are perhaps on the face of it a bit banal (pot holes/hot water/pies/beer/Ashford etc).....but they also ask some very pertinent questions too.
It would seem a good 'all round' question and answer session has taken place....some things being very important indeed and some not so important but all in need of answers never-the -less.
Well done to ALL concerned.