I dont like this feeling of familiarity that has spread through the squad in the last couple of months....it reminds me of going to Blackpool when were in the top four and then finishing 12th in the CCC. Im uneasy....Ive been told that the players dont like playing at home......I cant say as I enjoy us at home either...something needs to give....The Valley is like a bloody mausoleum these days.
Parky hasn't spent on players but he has one of the biggest budgets in the league, bought many of the players down from the division above, where most fans reckon we should have been OK to stay up. Despite only three losses(excluding early cup exits, one to non-league oppo) we have been playing poorly for months and scraping wins by the odd goal and unable to beat poor opposition.
Six of the side that started on Tuesday were signed by Parky, ditto three out of our four current strikers, and he has had the benefit of Premiership funded Academy youngsters coming through.
We have been relatively lucky with injuries but have a growing appearance list, culminating in Tuesday's axe which fell on four players from the previous feeble effort when it just as easily could have been any of the other six. Did this smack of desperation to you? Echoes of Pardew, or Parky's initial squad shake-up, we know how successful they were.
Parky could have been reading the board after Saturday as he changed things about a bit as demanded - brought back Racon, started with Sodje and Wagstaff
once he's done that it's up to the players to go out, show some pride and professionalism and get the win
You could point to a couple of seasons back were we fell from the top 2 to 5th where we stayed for weeks to 11th by the end of the season, but I don't quite see the point of using estimates and things that happened 2 years ago to strengthen your arguments. We have almost had a complete squad overhaul since then.
True, it hasn't been right since the games against Millwall and Swindon in all fairness and I think our recent run can only be down to a lack of confident. Parkinson's noticed and has begun to implement changes to deal with the issue as we've gone a bit stale in recent weeks (not months, bit of an exaggeration above). However, we do need Kelly Youga back sooner rather than later. I didn't see Chris Solly in midweek but Basey has been exposed far too often in recent games and having Youga back would provide a massive boost along with a more stable back four.
[cite]Posted By: Addickson's God[/cite]Parky hasn't spent on players but he has one of the biggest budgets in the league, bought many of the players down from the division above, where most fans reckon we should have been OK to stay up. Despite only three losses(excluding early cup exits, one to non-league oppo) we have been playing poorly for months and scraping wins by the odd goal and unable to beat poor opposition.
Six of the side that started on Tuesday were signed by Parky, ditto three out of our four current strikers, and he has had the benefit of Premiership funded Academy youngsters coming through.
We have been relatively lucky with injuries but have a growing appearance list, culminating in Tuesday's axe which fell on four players from the previous feeble effort when it just as easily could have been any of the other six. Did this smack of desperation to you? Echoes of Pardew, or Parky's initial squad shake-up, we know how successful they were.
I can understand where you are coming from but regardless of the players we have, the manager still has to
do a good job, get the right players and staff in and build a team spirit. He has done that, even if it's not perfect (just seen he said he wanted Kyel Reid in the summer for example.
I bet if you look on Leeds and Norwich forums there are fans not always convinced by the performances. In fact we know Leeds fans aren't convinced they'll go up. They've all scrapped results like we have. Despite the players we have they aren't so good they'll control and dominate every game.
As for the Premier League academy, he still has to manage them
properly, something Pardew for example isn't particularly good at.
If he hadn't changed the team you'd be saying he's too scared to take a gamble or leave out his favourites. As long as he doesn't try to tweak the line up every week, I don't have a problem with a few changes when there's a sensible reason for it. Mooney and Sam would have been dropped by most fans, others were calling for
Racon to play and/or to try playing without Semedo. Solly for Basey added a bit more pace
to the side.
I'd say the changes he made were more like what Curbs did to shake things up, rather than Pardew's "lucky
dip" style.
can we please, please, please once and for all get away from the FACT that he hasn't spend any money on a fee for a player. We paid a fee for Matt Spring, a player now deemed not even good enough to get on the bench most games. In that respect he has wasted that fee. Based on that I'm not sure I'd want to give him any more money to waste on other players. If he had his way we'd buy Mooney, enough said.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]essentially the team are underperforming any idiot can see that week in week out, its not good enough, and to keep saying the players done good etc, is wearing very thin in my book, we have a huge wage bill and a dearth of talent apparently, and are getting poor to average results against teams we 'should be beating' .....but then you all knew this is what I meant.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]can we please, please, please once and for all get away from the FACT that he hasn't spend any money on a fee for a player. We paid a fee for Matt Spring, a player now deemed not even good enough to get on the bench most games. In that respect he has wasted that fee. Based on that I'm not sure I'd want to give him any more money to waste on other players. If he had his way we'd buy Mooney, enough said.
The club now has a policy in force at the moment ....... not spending out on transfer fees, but using money to pay signing on fee and wage structure.
Spring was signed a year ago to add experience and composure in midfield, an area we were desperately lacking at the time. He made a useful enough start. Who else was available, affordable and willing to join a side on a dreadful losing run already doomed to relegation......?
Put yourself in Parkinson's position, and tell me what you would have done instead?
do you actually think that PP is the best choice to get Charlton back to the championship then eventually prem? NO. But do we have any other choice ??? NO! Lets see here, after having a steady manager in Curbs for over 20 years, Charlton then got 4 different managers in 2 seasons. I believe we are still paying out the contracts of DOWIE, LES REED, PARDS, and now PP. With 4 managers still on a payroll, we cant afford a 5th! We even had to move PP to manager when he was asst because we dont have the funds. We need to get the best out of PP because he is our man at the moment with nobody else in line...
Will be a long time before we can consider if our manager is good enough to get us back to the Prem but for now Parky is our only hope of getting back to the Champ. Is he the best man for the job? the jury is out however in his favour:
-good record in the transfer market, excellent freebies and decent loans -results generally have been good, 3 defeats is a fine record, pity about too many draws -responded well to the Northwich/Carlisle period when we were playing poorly -not been afraid to change formations/teams, the whole Plan B debate -not moaned, got on with the job -good fan communications, apparantly he was excellent at the q&a sessions in terms of his ideas and responses -got back to the Charlton way, if that makes sense, seems more Curbs than Pardew in methods and general management. -got rid of McLeod (albeit on loan)
I do not know who could have done a better job, Lambert for example is a fine manager but inherited Holt, Hoolohan, Martin etc as well as a club that have been able to spend money. Grayson likewise has done well but Parky took over a sham and imho has done a good job.
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]can we please, please, please once and for all get away from the FACT that he hasn't spend any money on a fee for a player. We paid a fee for Matt Spring, a player now deemed not even good enough to get on the bench most games. In that respect he has wasted that fee. Based on that I'm not sure I'd want to give him any more money to waste on other players. If he had his way we'd buy Mooney, enough said.
The club now has a policy in force at the moment ....... not spending out on transfer fees, but using money to pay signing on fee and wage structure.
Spring was signed a year ago to add experience and composure in midfield, an area we were desperately lacking at the time. He made a useful enough start. Who else was available, affordable and willing to join a side on a dreadful losing run already doomed to relegation......?
Put yourself in Parkinson's position, and tell me what you would have done instead?
Oggy, that was in response to numerous posts that he has never spent a fee, statements that are factually incorrect, that is all I was trying to point out. If we are going to have such dicussions then at least let's get the facts right.
i wondered how long it would take for a thread to start on this, i nailed my point of view on a thread a month or so back may be more when we were in a good vein of form saying that i didnt think that was the right man although i feel he has done an adequate job pre season, I aint gonna start slating the fella there is no one else waiting to charge in and turn us around
lucky to make the playoffs if he doesnt sort them out we are too predictable too easy to get at.
Well I thought we would be lucky to be midtable and would already have lost most if not all of Bailey, Shelvey, Sam, Semedo and Racon.
We are doing better than that so well done Parky. We probably are not good enough for automatic promotion. We might scrape a play off position if we are lucky but other teams will be mentally stronger than us in a pressure situation.
Some of us failed to appreciate the good times when we had them and preferred to moan. Well karma is well and truly here now.
Large said on the previous page if Parky has money he'd buy Mooney - isn't the reason we've got players like Mooney here because we don't have any money? If we had money we'd be able to afford bigger wages and transfer fees. Then we wouldn't be trying to get the most we can from average players like Mooney.
I'm not saying he'd definitely do well with money to spend, but he'd surely aim higher with targets.
Unfortunately there isn't a solution to this problem. We just have to get on with it with the man we have. If we take that attitude then the atmosphere at The Valley might seem more positive to the players and then we might get somewhere.
Some people refer to Curbs a lot which is fine because he did a great job for us. Nevertheless, he had it easy in terms of fans' expectations. When he became manager we expected relegation if anything, not play-off challenges. Then we came back to The Valley and everyone was delirious. Then new stands being built, constant new investment etc - it was boom time at Charlton Athletic. He worked in at atmosphere of positvity, a bright outlook and happy colleagues and fans. Compare that to what Parky has faced.
That's a good point. There are some fans that will expect us to challenge for a second promotion of we are
promoted this season. Couldn't imagine booing 10-15 years ago if we had only lost 3 league games. Disappointment maybe but not booing.
He should just be honest, you can't paper over cracks for this long and be taken seriously.
The players/coaching staff aren't producing good enough football with the resources we have, come out and admit and he might not get on my "tits" so much - he's beginning to sound like his predecessor.
Curbs had it easy in terms of fans expectations. Maybe at the start, but in the second Premiership period I really dont think that is true. Europe anyone?
[cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]Curbs had it easy in terms of fans expectations.
Maybe at the start, but in the second Premiership period I really dont think that is true.
Europe anyone?
"Boring mid table football" "Curbishley should just go he can't take us to the next level" blah, blah, blah.
If I read or heard those comments or close to it once I did it a thousand times.
[cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]Curbs had it easy in terms of fans expectations.
Maybe at the start, but in the second Premiership period I really dont think that is true.
Europe anyone?
"Boring mid table football" "Curbishley should just go he can't take us to the next level" blah, blah, blah.
If I read or heard those comments or close to it once I did it a thousand times.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]He should just be honest, you can't paper over cracks for this long and be taken seriously.
The players/coaching staff aren't producing good enough football with the resources we have, come out and admit and he might not get on my "tits" so much - he's beginning to sound like his predecessor.
So you want him to come out and say it's just not happening at the moment, it's all my fault, we should be top of the league yadda yadda yadda... what kind of a message does that send out? And why should he do it? For any of our benefits? Is that going to be motivational is it, coming across beaten and defeated? There is a way of handling the media mate, a way of putting out soundbytes that most probably reflect nothing near what is being said behind closed doors, and neither you, me, or anyone else on here know 100% exactly what is being said.
By the same token as the approach that you want him to adopt when we lose, when we win a game then, would you be content if he came out and stated that he was the tactical mastermind behind the win?
As for honesty, I happen to think he's miles ahead the most honest manager we've had since Curbs. He tells it like it is and by all accounts came across open, friendly and very "charlton" at the Q and A.
[cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]Curbs had it easy in terms of fans expectations.
Maybe at the start, but in the second Premiership period I really dont think that is true.
Europe anyone?
"Boring mid table football" "Curbishley should just go he can't take us to the next level" blah, blah, blah.
If I read or heard those comments or close to it once I did it a thousand times.
does make me laugh when they deny that though
why is the Curbishley holier than though I told you so argument coming back again?
It was a belief circulated by the mindless minority that the media picked up on and whipped into a frenzy. Johnny come latelys... anyone with their head screwed on the right way knew we were sodding lucky to be up there, spending £5-10M per season, relatively secure in the financial long term and occasionally putting one up a "bigger" club.
Comments
Six of the side that started on Tuesday were signed by Parky, ditto three out of our four current strikers, and he has had the benefit of Premiership funded Academy youngsters coming through.
We have been relatively lucky with injuries but have a growing appearance list, culminating in Tuesday's axe which fell on four players from the previous feeble effort when it just as easily could have been any of the other six. Did this smack of desperation to you? Echoes of Pardew, or Parky's initial squad shake-up, we know how successful they were.
Parky could have been reading the board after Saturday as he changed things about a bit as demanded - brought back Racon, started with Sodje and Wagstaff
once he's done that it's up to the players to go out, show some pride and professionalism and get the win
You could point to a couple of seasons back were we fell from the top 2 to 5th where we stayed for weeks to 11th by the end of the season, but I don't quite see the point of using estimates and things that happened 2 years ago to strengthen your arguments. We have almost had a complete squad overhaul since then.
True, it hasn't been right since the games against Millwall and Swindon in all fairness and I think our recent run can only be down to a lack of confident. Parkinson's noticed and has begun to implement changes to deal with the issue as we've gone a bit stale in recent weeks (not months, bit of an exaggeration above). However, we do need Kelly Youga back sooner rather than later. I didn't see Chris Solly in midweek but Basey has been exposed far too often in recent games and having Youga back would provide a massive boost along with a more stable back four.
do a good job, get the right players and staff in and build a team spirit. He has done that, even if it's not perfect (just seen he said he wanted Kyel Reid in the summer for example.
I bet if you look on Leeds and Norwich forums there are fans not always convinced by the performances. In fact we know Leeds fans aren't convinced they'll go up. They've all scrapped results like we have. Despite the players we have they aren't so good they'll control and dominate every game.
As for the Premier League academy, he still has to manage them
properly, something Pardew for example isn't particularly good at.
If he hadn't changed the team you'd be saying he's too scared to take a gamble or leave out his favourites. As long as he doesn't try to tweak the line up every week, I don't have a problem with a few changes when there's a sensible reason for it. Mooney and Sam would have been dropped by most fans, others were calling for
Racon to play and/or to try playing without Semedo. Solly for Basey added a bit more pace
to the side.
I'd say the changes he made were more like what Curbs did to shake things up, rather than Pardew's "lucky
dip" style.
I'm with you Razil.
The club now has a policy in force at the moment ....... not spending out on transfer fees, but using money to pay signing on fee and wage structure.
Spring was signed a year ago to add experience and composure in midfield, an area we were desperately lacking at the time. He made a useful enough start. Who else was available, affordable and willing to join a side on a dreadful losing run already doomed to relegation......?
Put yourself in Parkinson's position, and tell me what you would have done instead?
-good record in the transfer market, excellent freebies and decent loans
-results generally have been good, 3 defeats is a fine record, pity about too many draws
-responded well to the Northwich/Carlisle period when we were playing poorly
-not been afraid to change formations/teams, the whole Plan B debate
-not moaned, got on with the job
-good fan communications, apparantly he was excellent at the q&a sessions in terms of his ideas and responses
-got back to the Charlton way, if that makes sense, seems more Curbs than Pardew in methods and general management.
-got rid of McLeod (albeit on loan)
I do not know who could have done a better job, Lambert for example is a fine manager but inherited Holt, Hoolohan, Martin etc as well as a club that have been able to spend money. Grayson likewise has done well but Parky took over a sham and imho has done a good job.
Oggy, that was in response to numerous posts that he has never spent a fee, statements that are factually incorrect, that is all I was trying to point out. If we are going to have such dicussions then at least let's get the facts right.
lucky to make the playoffs if he doesnt sort them out we are too predictable too easy to get at.
We are doing better than that so well done Parky. We probably are not good enough for automatic promotion. We might scrape a play off position if we are lucky but other teams will be mentally stronger than us in a pressure situation.
Some of us failed to appreciate the good times when we had them and preferred to moan. Well karma is well and truly here now.
I'm not saying he'd definitely do well with money to spend, but he'd surely aim higher with targets.
Dont worry that we cant beat the mighty Walsall eh
Boooooooooooo
Some people refer to Curbs a lot which is fine because he did a great job for us. Nevertheless, he had it easy in terms of fans' expectations. When he became manager we expected relegation if anything, not play-off challenges. Then we came back to The Valley and everyone was delirious. Then new stands being built, constant new investment etc - it was boom time at Charlton Athletic. He worked in at atmosphere of positvity, a bright outlook and happy colleagues and fans. Compare that to what Parky has faced.
promoted this season. Couldn't imagine booing 10-15 years ago if we had only lost 3 league games. Disappointment maybe but not booing.
What a good post, Jimmy.
The players/coaching staff aren't producing good enough football with the resources we have, come out and admit and he might not get on my "tits" so much - he's beginning to sound like his predecessor.
Maybe at the start, but in the second Premiership period I really dont think that is true.
Europe anyone?
"Boring mid table football" "Curbishley should just go he can't take us to the next level" blah, blah, blah.
If I read or heard those comments or close to it once I did it a thousand times.
does make me laugh when they deny that though
So you want him to come out and say it's just not happening at the moment, it's all my fault, we should be top of the league yadda yadda yadda... what kind of a message does that send out? And why should he do it? For any of our benefits? Is that going to be motivational is it, coming across beaten and defeated? There is a way of handling the media mate, a way of putting out soundbytes that most probably reflect nothing near what is being said behind closed doors, and neither you, me, or anyone else on here know 100% exactly what is being said.
By the same token as the approach that you want him to adopt when we lose, when we win a game then, would you be content if he came out and stated that he was the tactical mastermind behind the win?
As for honesty, I happen to think he's miles ahead the most honest manager we've had since Curbs. He tells it like it is and by all accounts came across open, friendly and very "charlton" at the Q and A.
why is the Curbishley holier than though I told you so argument coming back again?
It was a belief circulated by the mindless minority that the media picked up on and whipped into a frenzy. Johnny come latelys... anyone with their head screwed on the right way knew we were sodding lucky to be up there, spending £5-10M per season, relatively secure in the financial long term and occasionally putting one up a "bigger" club.
there should be a european law against curb-criticising deniers