[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]Got a bus in and may try and do the same going back out. Less people on the roads and bus drivers are showing up for work.
I recall a few years ago working with a guy who'd been involved in negotiating the rail privatisation. I was moaning about the crappy service and he (rather arrogantly, he was a prick), told me about some of the cost models that they'd put in place that go a long way to driving this behaviour from the train companies. They essentially pay a tariff for their trains using the lines. Very similar to a phone call. The longer the train, the more you pay. If you're on at peak times, you also pay more as do you if you stop at major stations. He was very proud of this construct.
So, I asked him what was to stop them running hardly any trains - he said that there'd be no passengers and they'd lose money, which I pointed out was generally not true, because people have to get into work so if there's no alternative methods then they'll just cram onto the smaller less frequent services. He countered by saying that they had to run a certain number of carraiges per week.
At this point the penny dropped: so I ran it past him. Does that mean that they can run a bunch of big long empty trains off-peak and weekends (which they seemed to be doing on my line at the time), pay a lower rental tariff and still meet their number of carraiges in service targets and still carry get money off more or less the same number of passengers, because commuters will just lump in? I also asked if that was why there were a bunch of half empty "express" trains that ran into town, but didn't stop at London Bridge (despite going through it - e.g the Thameslink and Hayes lines in the mornings), which made them no use to most people, who then had to cram onto the ones that did. He was a bit sheepish, clearly never having considered this pretty obvious consequence of his dumb model.
He also told me that they get some let days if the conditions are so bad that they can't run a proper service. Again, they're largely better off cancelling the trains which gets them out of the "line rental" and largely out of ticket compensation. It's also why you'll often find better services operating in the evenings than the mornings.
This is all anecdotal, but everything I've seen or read since point to it being a plaudible explanation for some very odd behaviour from the commuter rail operatiors.
So summary: if you're ever wondering why there seems to be fewer/shorter trains at peak times or why rail services get affected by weather that doesn't seem to bother tubes or buses, it's because the retards that cut the privatisation deal appear to have done it in such a way that positively financially incentivises the train companies to run a poorer service at the times and to the places that most people want them for, and to cancel trains at every opportunity.
What I would say is take the time out to claim compensation and complain at every opportunity, even if it's not really worth it, because in wasting their time you're doing something to disincentivise them.
Thats about the long and short of it. No other reason and the snow is just a convenient mascarade for them to exploit the loophole.
Wont change until mass action is taken by customers ie 25000 people refusing to submit or show tickets on one day next month.
[cite]Posted By: rhinosvalley[/cite]they are now advertising service from Cannon Street to Bexleyheath, Sidcup, Hayes and Greenwich this evening.....but to be honest the way theyve handled this whole situation - I dont believe what they say.....I cant understand why if they had to reduce the service then why at the very least they cant do a Saturday service like they did before....2 trains an hour is just a joke..........
[cite]Posted By: NathanPrior[/cite]Last train from Albany Park to New Eltham last night at 7:39 was rather empty, but surely they can run trains later than that
To be fair on a ridiculously cold night with snow everywhere, i doubt there were too many people bothered about going 2 stops from Albany Park to New Eltham anyway
B> no, not saying we can't moan, and I'll join in a stand off but ultimately my place of work won't allow me to do that, but i'm happy to use alternative methods to get to work even taking a longer time if it would make a difference but i'd still need to pay to get to work and i can't see people taking holiday to avoid using public transport to make a point.
i don't know what can be done, but happy to join in. we do pay too much for a crap service, but aside from jumping over the barriers and risking arrest, nothing will change. lobbying parliament and writing petitions and joining facebook groups and twitter is all well and good but it won't change.
where does your dad live?
my mum stocked up my nans fridge/freezer on saturday cos my mum is petrified of ice and snow living down a little close with a steep drive she won't go anywhere herself.
I worked for 15years on the railway, and left 10 years ago, so Im not current on various issues.
The reason for higher prices in the rush hour was always done to prevent everybody travelling on trains at the same time. They need to spread out the passenger load. The only way they can do this is cost. At the end of the day, they will never sort out the overcrowding of trains because you cannot ever guarantee the amount who will travel on xxx day of the week. I have spent many hours on station platforms trying to stop people getting onto packed train to prevent overcrowding, but still watch them getting into that very last gap. Then the next day the same people moaning because someone else is pushing them so they can get in the gap! Its a no win situation, they can't stop overcrowding.
Snow, any type was always a horrible thing for the trains. First of all, it gets sucked up into the motors, melts because of the heat, the shorts them out. A great example was the Eurostar just before xmas. As soon as they entered the tunnel, a slight increase in weather conditions caused the packed snow to melt causing all the trains to fail. Any snow falling onto the track and settling can cause the live rails to short out. That's why the SE trains get it worse as the overhead power lines don't tend to get covered that deep in snow, although they do tend to snap, etc. due to the weight of snow. They do have point heaters which are kept on when needed, but can't cope in heavy snow or very cold weather.
I spent many hours standing out in the middle of back and beyond hand signalling when a signal went wrong. So, where H&S comes into I'll never know!
I'm on the 3rd section of my journey home which started at 5.30 in camden. Still got about 10 mins till at my front door. Took a while but not stressful and didn't go anywhere near a southeastern station or train and had a seat the whole time.
[cite]Posted By: superclive[/cite]according to the times on national rail enquiries they are running a full service tomorrow. ?
Yep mate, that's what I see too but when I got to Eltham Station tonight there were notices up saying the reduced service would continue into Friday.
I got a Bexleyheath Line train from Cannon St tonight at 17.20. It stopped everywhere - even St Johns!
I hope tomorrow is better, but will get up early again to give myself the O2 option.
Thanks guys your right 2 an hour again. On 710 from eltham packed, but I wsa able to get on today, platform was a lot less crowded. Either earlier trains ran or everyones found other mehods/given up!
Comments
Shitheads
It's a real piss take pulling services early, running a off peak service, and charging peak prices.
If you didn't know, Jubilee and DLR are accepting SET tickets from Central London to Lewisham, Woolwich and North Greenwich
Thats about the long and short of it. No other reason and the snow is just a convenient mascarade for them to exploit the loophole.
Wont change until mass action is taken by customers ie 25000 people refusing to submit or show tickets on one day next month.
Like McLovin suggests....all about the £££££££££s
To be fair on a ridiculously cold night with snow everywhere, i doubt there were too many people bothered about going 2 stops from Albany Park to New Eltham anyway
i don't know what can be done, but happy to join in. we do pay too much for a crap service, but aside from jumping over the barriers and risking arrest, nothing will change. lobbying parliament and writing petitions and joining facebook groups and twitter is all well and good but it won't change.
where does your dad live?
my mum stocked up my nans fridge/freezer on saturday cos my mum is petrified of ice and snow living down a little close with a steep drive she won't go anywhere herself.
The trouble for me and other Oyster PAYG is that it'll cost me more than what I should have spent on a single from London to New Eltham.
I worked for 15years on the railway, and left 10 years ago, so Im not current on various issues.
The reason for higher prices in the rush hour was always done to prevent everybody travelling on trains at the same time. They need to spread out the passenger load. The only way they can do this is cost. At the end of the day, they will never sort out the overcrowding of trains because you cannot ever guarantee the amount who will travel on xxx day of the week.
I have spent many hours on station platforms trying to stop people getting onto packed train to prevent overcrowding, but still watch them getting into that very last gap. Then the next day the same people moaning because someone else is pushing them so they can get in the gap! Its a no win situation, they can't stop overcrowding.
Snow, any type was always a horrible thing for the trains. First of all, it gets sucked up into the motors, melts because of the heat, the shorts them out. A great example was the Eurostar just before xmas. As soon as they entered the tunnel, a slight increase in weather conditions caused the packed snow to melt causing all the trains to fail.
Any snow falling onto the track and settling can cause the live rails to short out. That's why the SE trains get it worse as the overhead power lines don't tend to get covered that deep in snow, although they do tend to snap, etc. due to the weight of snow.
They do have point heaters which are kept on when needed, but can't cope in heavy snow or very cold weather.
I spent many hours standing out in the middle of back and beyond hand signalling when a signal went wrong. So, where H&S comes into I'll never know!
If everyone did it, they'd have to take notice.
Simply can't arrest everyone.
Seems a bit pointless when the vast majority affected by this have season tickets...
Take your tears elsewhere pal.
I wonder if some 1 with a big wallet to take South Eastern trains to court after taking your cash but not offering a service ?
no tears here mate. Coach company do a book of 40 single tickets... So if I don't go on the coach, I'm not paying them... Simples.
Yep mate, that's what I see too but when I got to Eltham Station tonight there were notices up saying the reduced service would continue into Friday.
I got a Bexleyheath Line train from Cannon St tonight at 17.20. It stopped everywhere - even St Johns!
I hope tomorrow is better, but will get up early again to give myself the O2 option.
cannot see this changing much for Monday with the weather forecast
Commuters need to put in as much effort to get in as they expect rail companies to actually get you in.....