[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]Len, you seriously saying Curbs didn't have players who didn't care or am I misreading you?
Curbs certainly did have players who didn't care but not too many because he looked at the man behind the player before buying and spending Club money which he used as if it was his own. If somebody slipped through the net after his vetting they didn't usually last too long. Hence the unjustified criticism from his detractors that he couldn't manage "big" players. I don't recall too many problems with Di Canio and they don't come much bigger than him.
Contrast Curbs' attitude with Club funds to that of Dowie and Pardew who adopted the same attitude as my daughters would when aged under 10 if handed a £50 note in a sweet shop. Anything will do but spend! spend! spend!
OK so Marcus Bent (lazy, lacked talent, full of himself overpriced/paid, Franny Jeffers (cared so much he boozed like a trooper), Smertin (upped sticks as soon as it suited him), Murphy (thought he was bigger than the team), that's just off the top of my head. And left Dowie with an enviable rebuild to the spine/core of the team (which I agree he fecked up). Curbs tho was far from perfect.
Do a list of his signings and we'll compare and contrast.
I've never expected us to play like Brazil but what I couldn't really take was the lack of desire to actully win a game.
When we went up in 2000 it didn't matter who we played, we gave them a game. In the final seasons under Curbishley, it looked as though the objetive was to not lose rather than trying to win. Understandable? Maybe and but not something I really want to watch.
I like the football that is being played at the moment and I hope that we will be playing in the same way in the CCC next season. If that has to be sacrificed to play in the prem, then I'd sooner give it a miss!
you get what you deserve and we deserve to be 3rd tier cos it was too much of a chore in the premiership.....
maybe 4th tier would bring more excitement ok it's a wank standard but who would want the likes of darren bent in the team if it meant a marcus bent came with it ....
top of the championship! mid table in the championship isn't such a bad place to be as a few wins can sometimes be enough to lift you into the play off places.
top of the premiership! mid table in the premiership isn't such a bad place to be as a few wins can sometimes be enough to lift you into the european places.
Although the possibility of Charlton doing really well and qualifying for the Euro League where they then field a reserve side in Brussles in order to win a relegation 12 pointer in October would be a dream come true, mmm....
I just want to see a cohesive team, players that want to play for Charlton, a manager that is in it for the club and not a couple of million quid.
The last couple of seasons I had fallen out of love with footy, now I feel like its great again, I enjoyed the Southampton game as much as all the others, so its not just about winning. I feel like the Charlton ethos is back in the club. RE The Prem. I remember how I felt after the Play offs in 98 and when we won the Championship a few years later, it feel similar at the moment. I also remember how I felt when we gave the so called big teams a 'bloody nose' occasionally in the Prem. I can live with that again as long as we are 'Charlton'.
Also I would love to spend £45 to watch us get beaten 5-0 at Old Trafford, hopefully I'll be able to visit the megastore and take photos of Wayne Rooney.
I would (selfishly) rather we be in as high a league as possible, but only because that's about the only way that I can get to see the club on TV over here. That said, just about every time we were on TV broadcast in Canada while in the Premiership, we were terrible, so I actually started to dread those matches!
If I were a local season ticket holder, I expect that I'd far rather be watching good, winning football in a lower league week in and week out, if necessary.
I don't think anyone can say that we didn't have some special days down at the Valley during those Premiership seasons - some of them amoungst our best days ever. The trouble is, towards the end we just didn't have the money to maintain the standard and that meant Curbs had to play the 'dull' safety first football - that was no fun at all, just like it was no fun watching Pardew's clueless Championship sides.
We gave Dowie some money, but even then not really serious money by Premiership standards - and as we now know only too well, even that was well beyond our means and not nearly enough to get us a side capable of bloodying a few noses like we used to. These days, you need even more than that just to tread water - £12m these days gets you two thirds of Glenn Johnson who would be a fair comparison to Luke Young imo, when we signed all of him for £4M. Under current ownership we haven't a prayer of ever having that kind of cash.
Plus I don't want to be paying £50 to watch my team knowing £45 of it will going to line very average footballers pockets.
At one point the Premiership looked smooth and sophisticated in it's sharp suit and designer sunglasses, but now it's had too much fine wine and fois gras and it's middle aged spread and red nose are rather unsightly.
Having been a Charlton supporter for many years they are to me a 2nd level team.
I would rather we hadn't been relegated and started this season as we have but in the 2nd tier, but we didn't so yes I'm happy for the current situation and I enjoyed going to Tranmere and seeing us win 4-0 just as I was pleased to go to Liverpool and win 1-0. However the Liverpool win was a rare ray of sunshine in the Premiership away from home.
To me the perfect scenario would be a team playing attacking football near the top of the Championship with the occasional foray into the Prem - a bit like West Brom. The Premiership has become too pressured - they even talk of 6 pointers at the beginning of the season, we don't have the financial backing to compete there so we are better off where we are and promotion into the Championship where we can compete an win.
Well these days it seems to be a big struggle just to survive. Hence the Bosman players and pay them as little as possible. Us Charlton fans dream of a successful team and hope for a win. United and the Arse etc expect to win and usually do; spolt lot! Answering the question, I love it when we are contenders. The promotion seasons were truly great, all of them! If we could be contenders in the Chumps and get the occasional promotion to the top tier, aka WBA (or like Norwich used to do) that would suit me fine...but not by playing hoof ball palace/wimbledon type football.
Arsenal 2 - 4 Charlton - is there any better memory in recent years
Charlton 3 - 0 Liverpool and there was
Charlton 2 - 0 Liverpool and
then the pre-Abramovich run against Chelsea up to the the post-A boxing day win
There were some great days.
[cite]Posted By: pickwick[/cite]Arsenal 2 - 4 Charlton - is there any better memory in recent years
Charlton 3 - 0 Liverpool and there was
Charlton 2 - 0 Liverpool and
then the pre-Abramovich run against Chelsea up to the the post-A boxing day win
There were some great days.
yeah but
orient 1 charlton 2
tranmere 0 charlton 4
charlton 2 brentford 0
are memorable results that will stay with you for the rest of your life;-)
As a couple of others have intimated, I feel that Charlton will ultimately find themselves as a yo-yo club between the Championship and Prem.
We can't truly compete with the big boys but being regular CCC promotion hopefuls and Prem relegation battlers, would keep us all on our toes and entertained - each season there would be something at stake.
We would also get a regular pop at the fat cats ...... and once in a while claim a scalp to add to Pickwicks glory list above.
First though, we need to get out of the Third division - hopefully this season!
I agree with the AFKA contingent on this thread. But there is a dilemma (or paradox, whatever). I enjoy winning but that means getting promoted. Then I will want us to win in the CCC, which means promotion again. And we're back to the same problem.
The premiership wasn't nearly as much fun as getting there. It would only be fun if we could be confident of staying in it which would require the club being very rich and that's not going to happen. In truth, the way football is set up now ideally requires fewer clubs. Maybe 3/4 in London. I suspect the trend now (the rich get richer, the poor get poorer) will continue and where that leaves us in the long term I don't know. Meanwhile, to use the old cliche, I'm taking each game as it comes and enjoying it on its own merits. Doesn't pay to think too much about it.
I would definitely prefer to be at a higher level - even if it meant losing more games. MrOneLung is spot on when he says that the beautiful performances against Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs etc offset the rubbish ones.
Surely your ambition, drive and motivation as a football supporter and a Charlton fan is to be up there, and competing, with the best? Otherwise why do you cheer from the stands for the players to better themselves if you're perfectly happy where you are? As a Charlton supporter I want my team to remembered in the history books. We remember Liverpool in the 70s and 80s (although I'm not old enough!) and Man U in the 90s, not who finished mid-table in the Second Division 10 years ago. I know that Charlton are a long way from those ambitions but I can dream, the same way Manchester City fans probably dreamt 10 years ago that they would be competing at the top of the Premier League and the same way Burnley fans probably dreamt 20 years ago when they nearly dropped out of the football league that they would, one day, be playing at the highest level.
I agree that relegation seasons are awful but I look back on them now with a smile. I remember losing my voice after we beat Aston Villa 4-3 to leave ourselves a chance of survival for the last game of the season against Sheffield Wednesday, I remember cheering on Charlton as we searched for a win away to Watford (ended 2-2) and, most importantly, I remember singing "we'll be back" at Anfield at our last Premiership game.
I'm in two minds here; Of course it's nice playing the big guys but the monotony of never actually being able to compete in the Premier League became too much and I craved some kind of challenge more than "staying up". Maybe we are a "yo-yo" team and I suppose I'm happy with that, as long as it's not between Div 2 and 3. I also would like to finish above Millwall and Palarse every year. A nice cup run and maybe a Wembley final could be nice as well.
From a selfish perspective, it has to be the Premier League as that's the only way I get to see the team - live on TV.
Im not happy with being in Div 3, of course, and if realistically the absolute best we can hope for in the next decade is to be a yoyo club between the Premier League and Championship then that would be great. The best atmospheres are usually at games where something really depends upon it, even if you don't get the best football, and if you are forever fighting for promotion and to try and avoid relegation that's what you are getting: every game counts.
Last season was probably the worst in my many years of supporting CAFC - and I only saw two games. That is what we don't want again.
There is less honor in playing beneath your stature, and beating up opponents that you should be beating and wouldn't even be playing if you hadn't screwed up along the way.
Lots of valid comments about how people prefer to see Charlton actually winning games and doing well as opposed to sterile Prem football. The flaw to all this is of course that winning games and doing well in div 1 and Championship will unsurprisingly perhaps lead back to the Premiership.
So the first year when we went up and although it ended in relegation none of you enjoyed it you would rather have stayed down and not returned the following season?
When we stayed up in the 2nd spell, some great wins against Chelsea spurs Arsenal, the beating of Liverpool at the Valley just to name a few of the bigger clubs conming a croper.
Sorry but i want the premiership i want top tier footie not 3rd tier, the chumpionship was meant to be easy get some cobfidence back and get back where we belong was the noises i was hearing.
i will make do with my lot right now and i am enjoying my football but no where near as much as i enjoyed the big games the big results against the big teams and i really dont believe it when you say you would rather beat blackpool (or any other 2nd tier avg team) at home than you would than getting a hard fought point against utd or chelsea , arsenal, liverpool
beating 2nd tier teams means getting promotion to the best league in the world, if you are saying that you dont want that prize then you are saying that you want to win enough games to stay in the chump but lose enough to not go down.
you go to football to support your team meet your mates and enter into a journey(good or bad) but you go into each season with hopes and aspirations.
I dont like some of the crap that comes with the premier league but i sure do like the football, some of it was boring but we saw some of the greatest players in the world on our ground.
look around you the next time at the valley the ground you love was built by premier league football.
yes we are in the mire now but i know where i dream of us returning too
If Zabeel come back or their like then Premier, because we then can compete,but without stupid funding,we will never be able to compete even at the level that we did with Curbs. Yo yo Club with 2 years out of 3 in the Championship would be fine with me, till the Prem close the door and stop promotion and relegation.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]So the first year when we went up and although it ended in relegation none of you enjoyed it you would rather have stayed down and not returned the following season?
When we stayed up in the 2nd spell, some great wins against Chelsea spurs Arsenal, the beating of Liverpool at the Valley just to name a few of the bigger clubs conming a croper.
Sorry but i want the premiership i want top tier footie not 3rd tier, the chumpionship was meant to be easy get some cobfidence back and get back where we belong was the noises i was hearing.
i will make do with my lot right now and i am enjoying my football but no where near as much as i enjoyed the big games the big results against the big teams and i really dont believe it when you say you would rather beat blackpool (or any other 2nd tier avg team) at home than you would than getting a hard fought point against utd or chelsea , arsenal, liverpool
beating 2nd tier teams means getting promotion to the best league in the world, if you are saying that you dont want that prize then you are saying that you want to win enough games to stay in the chump but lose enough to not go down.
you go to football to support your team meet your mates and enter into a journey(good or bad) but you go into each season with hopes and aspirations.
I dont like some of the crap that comes with the premier league but i sure do like the football, some of it was boring but we saw some of the greatest players in the world on our ground.
look around you the next time at the valley the ground you love was built by premier league football.
yes we are in the mire now but i know where i dream of us returning too
What NLA said
"We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars"
Comments
OK so Marcus Bent (lazy, lacked talent, full of himself overpriced/paid, Franny Jeffers (cared so much he boozed like a trooper), Smertin (upped sticks as soon as it suited him), Murphy (thought he was bigger than the team), that's just off the top of my head. And left Dowie with an enviable rebuild to the spine/core of the team (which I agree he fecked up). Curbs tho was far from perfect.
Do a list of his signings and we'll compare and contrast.
When we went up in 2000 it didn't matter who we played, we gave them a game. In the final seasons under Curbishley, it looked as though the objetive was to not lose rather than trying to win. Understandable? Maybe and but not something I really want to watch.
I like the football that is being played at the moment and I hope that we will be playing in the same way in the CCC next season. If that has to be sacrificed to play in the prem, then I'd sooner give it a miss!
maybe 4th tier would bring more excitement ok it's a wank standard but who would want the likes of darren bent in the team if it meant a marcus bent came with it ....
Although the possibility of Charlton doing really well and qualifying for the Euro League where they then field a reserve side in Brussles in order to win a relegation 12 pointer in October would be a dream come true, mmm....
The last couple of seasons I had fallen out of love with footy, now I feel like its great again, I enjoyed the Southampton game as much as all the others, so its not just about winning. I feel like the Charlton ethos is back in the club. RE The Prem. I remember how I felt after the Play offs in 98 and when we won the Championship a few years later, it feel similar at the moment. I also remember how I felt when we gave the so called big teams a 'bloody nose' occasionally in the Prem. I can live with that again as long as we are 'Charlton'.
If I were a local season ticket holder, I expect that I'd far rather be watching good, winning football in a lower league week in and week out, if necessary.
We gave Dowie some money, but even then not really serious money by Premiership standards - and as we now know only too well, even that was well beyond our means and not nearly enough to get us a side capable of bloodying a few noses like we used to. These days, you need even more than that just to tread water - £12m these days gets you two thirds of Glenn Johnson who would be a fair comparison to Luke Young imo, when we signed all of him for £4M. Under current ownership we haven't a prayer of ever having that kind of cash.
Plus I don't want to be paying £50 to watch my team knowing £45 of it will going to line very average footballers pockets.
At one point the Premiership looked smooth and sophisticated in it's sharp suit and designer sunglasses, but now it's had too much fine wine and fois gras and it's middle aged spread and red nose are rather unsightly.
I would rather we hadn't been relegated and started this season as we have but in the 2nd tier, but we didn't so yes I'm happy for the current situation and I enjoyed going to Tranmere and seeing us win 4-0 just as I was pleased to go to Liverpool and win 1-0. However the Liverpool win was a rare ray of sunshine in the Premiership away from home.
To me the perfect scenario would be a team playing attacking football near the top of the Championship with the occasional foray into the Prem - a bit like West Brom. The Premiership has become too pressured - they even talk of 6 pointers at the beginning of the season, we don't have the financial backing to compete there so we are better off where we are and promotion into the Championship where we can compete an win.
Charlton 3 - 0 Liverpool and there was
Charlton 2 - 0 Liverpool and
then the pre-Abramovich run against Chelsea up to the the post-A boxing day win
There were some great days.
yeah but
orient 1 charlton 2
tranmere 0 charlton 4
charlton 2 brentford 0
are memorable results that will stay with you for the rest of your life;-)
We can't truly compete with the big boys but being regular CCC promotion hopefuls and Prem relegation battlers, would keep us all on our toes and entertained - each season there would be something at stake.
We would also get a regular pop at the fat cats ...... and once in a while claim a scalp to add to Pickwicks glory list above.
First though, we need to get out of the Third division - hopefully this season!
The premiership wasn't nearly as much fun as getting there. It would only be fun if we could be confident of staying in it which would require the club being very rich and that's not going to happen. In truth, the way football is set up now ideally requires fewer clubs. Maybe 3/4 in London. I suspect the trend now (the rich get richer, the poor get poorer) will continue and where that leaves us in the long term I don't know. Meanwhile, to use the old cliche, I'm taking each game as it comes and enjoying it on its own merits. Doesn't pay to think too much about it.
Surely your ambition, drive and motivation as a football supporter and a Charlton fan is to be up there, and competing, with the best? Otherwise why do you cheer from the stands for the players to better themselves if you're perfectly happy where you are? As a Charlton supporter I want my team to remembered in the history books. We remember Liverpool in the 70s and 80s (although I'm not old enough!) and Man U in the 90s, not who finished mid-table in the Second Division 10 years ago. I know that Charlton are a long way from those ambitions but I can dream, the same way Manchester City fans probably dreamt 10 years ago that they would be competing at the top of the Premier League and the same way Burnley fans probably dreamt 20 years ago when they nearly dropped out of the football league that they would, one day, be playing at the highest level.
I agree that relegation seasons are awful but I look back on them now with a smile. I remember losing my voice after we beat Aston Villa 4-3 to leave ourselves a chance of survival for the last game of the season against Sheffield Wednesday, I remember cheering on Charlton as we searched for a win away to Watford (ended 2-2) and, most importantly, I remember singing "we'll be back" at Anfield at our last Premiership game.
Im not happy with being in Div 3, of course, and if realistically the absolute best we can hope for in the next decade is to be a yoyo club between the Premier League and Championship then that would be great. The best atmospheres are usually at games where something really depends upon it, even if you don't get the best football, and if you are forever fighting for promotion and to try and avoid relegation that's what you are getting: every game counts.
Last season was probably the worst in my many years of supporting CAFC - and I only saw two games. That is what we don't want again.
There is less honor in playing beneath your stature, and beating up opponents that you should be beating and wouldn't even be playing if you hadn't screwed up along the way.
The only place to look is up!
When we stayed up in the 2nd spell, some great wins against Chelsea spurs Arsenal, the beating of Liverpool at the Valley just to name a few of the bigger clubs conming a croper.
Sorry but i want the premiership i want top tier footie not 3rd tier, the chumpionship was meant to be easy get some cobfidence back and get back where we belong was the noises i was hearing.
i will make do with my lot right now and i am enjoying my football but no where near as much as i enjoyed the big games the big results against the big teams and i really dont believe it when you say you would rather beat blackpool (or any other 2nd tier avg team) at home than you would than getting a hard fought point against utd or chelsea , arsenal, liverpool
beating 2nd tier teams means getting promotion to the best league in the world, if you are saying that you dont want that prize then you are saying that you want to win enough games to stay in the chump but lose enough to not go down.
you go to football to support your team meet your mates and enter into a journey(good or bad) but you go into each season with hopes and aspirations.
I dont like some of the crap that comes with the premier league but i sure do like the football, some of it was boring but we saw some of the greatest players in the world on our ground.
look around you the next time at the valley the ground you love was built by premier league football.
yes we are in the mire now but i know where i dream of us returning too
do u think budgies preparing for next season in league one LOL
Although we need to get out of this division at the first attempt.
...and breathe....
....in.....
...and out......
What NLA said
"We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars"