[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Bouherra struggled with us, partly because we weren't a good team at the time, partly because he needs the right type of partner but mostly because of injuries. An injury free three/four months playing alongside Dailly and he'd look what he is - an international defender.
Althoug BFR, my instinct wouldn't be to ever pair Dailly and Bougherra together, as they are both a '2nd ball' CB and in fact much of their game is similar.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]As Ketters pointed out earlier, you need a stopper and a sweeper type combimation at centre back- the stopper to attack the first ball, and the other to go for the second ball, mop up any debris and if possible play the ball out.
I'm not sure Oggy. A quality defender should be able to play both of these roles when required. I realise at the time we weren't a good enough side to have this quality. I seem to recall that Bougherra just wasn't in position to go for the second ball as you describe. I reckon he'd make a better midfielder than a defender.
It's all a matter of opinion I suppose, Dabos ...... and we each see it in our own way.
It would be interesting to get a professional's verdict on Bougherra .....perhaps from a player who played in the same team and a coach.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]As Ketters pointed out earlier, you need a stopper and a sweeper type combimation at centre back- the stopper to attack the first ball, and the other to go for the second ball, mop up any debris and if possible play the ball out.
I'm not sure Oggy. A quality defender should be able to play both of these roles when required. I realise at the time we weren't a good enough side to have this quality. I seem to recall that Bougherra just wasn't in position to go for the second ball as you describe. I reckon he'd make a better midfielder than a defender.
How many can though? Most centre backs better at one role than the other.
We only ever won 11 games that he played in for us, and never in the Premiership. Doesn't tell you anything in itself I suppose, but I think he's developed after leaving us. Although not in terms of punctuality.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]As Ketters pointed out earlier, you need a stopper and a sweeper type combimation at centre back- the stopper to attack the first ball, and the other to go for the second ball, mop up any debris and if possible play the ball out.
I'm not sure Oggy. A quality defender should be able to play both of these roles when required. I realise at the time we weren't a good enough side to have this quality. I seem to recall that Bougherra just wasn't in position to go for the second ball as you describe. I reckon he'd make a better midfielder than a defender.
How many can though? Most centre backs better at one role than the other.
Not many, but I don't think Bougherra was good at either role! Like Oggy said, Bougherra is a marmite player. Personally, I thought he was a liability at centre back. I reckon he'd be good in a 5 man midfield though.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]We only ever won 11 games that he played in for us, and never in the Premiership. Doesn't tell you anything in itself I suppose, but I think he's developed after leaving us. Although not in terms of punctuality.
To be fair how many games did he actually start in the Prem, he was injured for much of that period after signing....?
His first match was in Jan, away to Man Ure at OT; even though we subsequently lost, the team played very well as a unit, and Bougherra himself was very effective until scythed down by Saha and subbed.
His next match was home to Sheff Utd in the middle of April, he came on with 20 mins remaining and froze like a rabbit caught in headlights.
After that, a couple of random sub appearances was his lot, until starting at Liverpool in the final game.
So only 2 starts in the Prem, tough games away to Man Utd and Liverpool......and we won neither.Shocking!
Hi I posted the above link originally earlier in the week on the thread about the Mirror saying Charlton had to sell players.
I live in Glasgow and Bougherra has got a great reputation up here, how much of this is deserved can sometimes be hard to fathom.
The standard of the opposition is not the highest level in Scotland these days and average players can sometimes shine brightly. Rangers players can also gain favourably reviews as the media in Scotland is very pro-Rangers due to mixture of them being the establishment club and the quantity of ex Rangers men in the media.
In his first season at Ibrox, Bougherra didn't play in Europe as Rangers had been knocked out in the preliminary rounds. This season he has played two games in the Champions League, scoring a great goal against Stuttgart. But he was also at the heart of the defence when Rangers were humiliated at home 4-1 by Sevilla.
Rangers are in a dire financial situation and if it wasn't for this years Champions League money then they could easily have been put into administration. The last financial figures released recently covered up to the end of July, posted a record loss with turnover plummeting and a 31 million debt.
31 million debt might not seem too outrageous but when you consider that Rangers only receive 2m a season in TV revenue from the SPL then it looks a whole lot worse. Rangers major shareholder, Sir David Murray has recently stepped down from the board, many in Scotland say this was the insistence of the bank. Sir David Murray's other companies are said to owe the bank over 750 million.
Walter Smith has been quoted as saying all the Rangers squad are available for sale and it seems very likely that Bougherra along with Steven Davis, Alan McGregor,Pedro Mendes & Kyle Lafferty will all move on in January especially after been dumped from the Champions League midweek.
He's played 8 games for Rangers this seasn and 8 games for Algeria!
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Just found this thread with 47 unread posts ....... a lot of people evidently didn't rate Boughera, but by the time he was sold he was massively influential in the Charlton side that season.
As Ketters pointed out earlier, you need a stopper and a sweeper type combimation at centre back- the stopper to attack the first ball, and the other to go for the second ball, mop up any debris and if possible play the ball out.
As a 'second ball' CB, Bougherra needed to be part of the right combination - andteamed with Jon Fortune(also a second ball CB) it was always too passive, with indecision as to which of them would attack the first ball.
Teamed with Paddy McCarthywas a different story - Paddy would attack that first ball, and a pacy Bougherra would work in tandem to clear up the debris, and pass or play the ball out of defence,quite often initiating our counter attack.
It was the right combination, and brought the best out of both CBs.
The coaching staff here rated him very highly indeed, and obviously he looked, erm .....magic in training.
Unfortunately he could be somewhat of a confidence player - and maybe his reputation in some people's eyes never recovered after a few hesitant early Charlton appearances and when played in the wrong combination....?
He evidently came on a bundle at Rangers last season - and I'm sure benefitted being around intelligent, composed and experienced players like Christian Dailly.
Agree with the principle of contrasting centre halves that you express.
For me though Fortune and Sodje was our best combination that season.
Walter Smith has been quoted as saying all the Rangers squad are available for sale and it seems very likely that Bougherra along with Steven Davis, Alan McGregor,Pedro Mendes & Kyle Lafferty will all move on in January
I don't know how Rangers will cope if Kyle Lafferty has to be sold!!
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]
As Ketters pointed out earlier, you need a stopper and a sweeper type combimation at centre back- the stopper to attack the first ball, and the other to go for the second ball, mop up any debris and if possible play the ball out.
As a 'second ball' CB, Bougherra needed to be part of the right combination - andteamed with Jon Fortune(also a second ball CB) it was always too passive, with indecision as to which of them would attack the first ball.
Teamed with Paddy McCarthywas a different story - Paddy would attack that first ball, and a pacy Bougherra would work in tandem to clear up the debris, and pass or play the ball out of defence,quite often initiating our counter attack.
It was the right combination, and brought the best out of both CBs.
Agree with the principle of contrasting centre halves that you express.
For me though Fortune and Sodje was our best combination that season.
You may well be right, Len ..... but my post was from a Bougherra thread point of view.
Nevertheless, good point - but very much illustrates the point of a "2nd ball" CB (Fortune) teamed with a "1st ball" CB (Sodje).
Most teams invariably seem to play with this combination - although I'm sure somebody on here will manage to unearth the exception to the rule ....!
There is also a piece on Sir David Murray in this Scottish blog about how he's struggling to sell Rangers. This could hasten Bougherra's departure as the bank are desperate for some money to come in during January. Bougherra is their biggest asset at present and will proabably be available for 3 to 4 million.
Lovely piece in the Daily Record by ex Dundee United supremo Jim McLean who paid tribute to a former Kilmarnock star of the 1960's who gave everything he had to the club whilst he and McLean were there (who's name escapes me at the minute sadly) who had passed on and spoke about the likes of Eric Cantona who despite being a football genius was more often than not the last one to leave Man U's training ground where he was still to be found working on his game- perfecting area's he thought needed perfecting!(The mark of a genuine class act) This in turn rubbed off on all of United's youngsters of the mid 90's and look how that ended up!
He compared these two players to Bougherra and his lazy attitude at Rangers and the modern lazy player in general. Regarding Bougherra he said "he is not even as good as he thinks he is" and "leaves great holes in his defence which decent pro's like David Wier have to work extra hard to fill whilst he goes on another Kamikaze run up field". He said (and rightly in my view) that Bougherra "only stands out because the standard of the SPL is so poor".
I had pretty much forgotten his contribution to Charlton until I read this piece.
Came into the squad fully as a Pardew player. Positionally negligent, but even worse was often willfully proactive at keeping out of position by doing idiot things like arguing with the ref as free kicks were being taken. Great fun to watch at times, but you worry about the manager who can't see past his massive failings. Think we were dead lucky at getting most of our money back.
Comments
Althoug BFR, my instinct wouldn't be to ever pair Dailly and Bougherra together, as they are both a '2nd ball' CB and in fact much of their game is similar.
Rangers owe!
I'm not sure Oggy. A quality defender should be able to play both of these roles when required. I realise at the time we weren't a good enough side to have this quality. I seem to recall that Bougherra just wasn't in position to go for the second ball as you describe. I reckon he'd make a better midfielder than a defender.
It would be interesting to get a professional's verdict on Bougherra .....perhaps from a player who played in the same team and a coach.
Interesting analysis on the link. I reckon Boogie wants out myself. Interesting to know if there is a sell on clause?
http://www.football.co.uk/portsmouth/furious_hart_slams_algerian_fa_297561.shtml
Not many, but I don't think Bougherra was good at either role! Like Oggy said, Bougherra is a marmite player. Personally, I thought he was a liability at centre back. I reckon he'd be good in a 5 man midfield though.
To be fair how many games did he actually start in the Prem, he was injured for much of that period after signing....?
His first match was in Jan, away to Man Ure at OT; even though we subsequently lost, the team played very well as a unit, and Bougherra himself was very effective until scythed down by Saha and subbed.
His next match was home to Sheff Utd in the middle of April, he came on with 20 mins remaining and froze like a rabbit caught in headlights.
After that, a couple of random sub appearances was his lot, until starting at Liverpool in the final game.
So only 2 starts in the Prem, tough games away to Man Utd and Liverpool......and we won neither.Shocking!
True but that doesn't explain the first two times he was late back does it.
let's hope not eh?!
[url]http://footballsfootball.com/WeknowSFA/?p=29[/url][/quote]
Hi
I posted the above link originally earlier in the week on the thread about the Mirror saying Charlton had to sell players.
I live in Glasgow and Bougherra has got a great reputation up here, how much of this is deserved can sometimes be hard to fathom.
The standard of the opposition is not the highest level in Scotland these days and average players can sometimes shine brightly.
Rangers players can also gain favourably reviews as the media in Scotland is very pro-Rangers due to mixture of them being the establishment club and the quantity of ex Rangers men in the media.
In his first season at Ibrox, Bougherra didn't play in Europe as Rangers had been knocked out in the preliminary rounds.
This season he has played two games in the Champions League, scoring a great goal against Stuttgart. But he was also at the heart of the defence when Rangers were humiliated at home 4-1 by Sevilla.
Rangers are in a dire financial situation and if it wasn't for this years Champions League money then they could easily have been put into administration.
The last financial figures released recently covered up to the end of July, posted a record loss with turnover plummeting and a 31 million debt.
31 million debt might not seem too outrageous but when you consider that Rangers only receive 2m a season in TV revenue from the SPL then it looks a whole lot worse. Rangers major shareholder, Sir David Murray has recently stepped down from the board, many in Scotland say this was the insistence of the bank. Sir David Murray's other companies are said to owe the bank over 750 million.
Walter Smith has been quoted as saying all the Rangers squad are available for sale and it seems very likely that Bougherra along with Steven Davis, Alan McGregor,Pedro Mendes & Kyle Lafferty will all move on in January especially after been dumped from the Champions League midweek.
He's played 8 games for Rangers this seasn and 8 games for Algeria!
http://footballsfootball.com/WeknowSFA/the-mysterious-case-of-madjid-bougherra/
This story might only be the tip of the iceberg at what's happening at Ibrox.
Is the sell on clause confirmed?
Agree with the principle of contrasting centre halves that you express.
For me though Fortune and Sodje was our best combination that season.
I don't know how Rangers will cope if Kyle Lafferty has to be sold!!
Yes by RM last night.
You may well be right, Len ..... but my post was from a Bougherra thread point of view.
Nevertheless, good point - but very much illustrates the point of a "2nd ball" CB (Fortune) teamed with a "1st ball" CB (Sodje).
Most teams invariably seem to play with this combination - although I'm sure somebody on here will manage to unearth the exception to the rule ....!
;o)
Get in.
Sell him, sell him.
But reports in today's Scottish Sunday papers are reporting unrest with Bougherra and Kenny Miller.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/rangers/rangers-players-clash-at-training-1.987178?
There is also a piece on Sir David Murray in this Scottish blog about how he's struggling to sell Rangers.
This could hasten Bougherra's departure as the bank are desperate for some money to come in during January.
Bougherra is their biggest asset at present and will proabably be available for 3 to 4 million.
http://footballsfootball.com/WeknowSFA/rangers-murray-interest-bank/
http://footballsfootball.com/WeknowSFA/the-mysterious-case-of-madjid-bougherra/
He compared these two players to Bougherra and his lazy attitude at Rangers and the modern lazy player in general. Regarding Bougherra he said "he is not even as good as he thinks he is" and "leaves great holes in his defence which decent pro's like David Wier have to work extra hard to fill whilst he goes on another Kamikaze run up field". He said (and rightly in my view) that Bougherra "only stands out because the standard of the SPL is so poor".
I had pretty much forgotten his contribution to Charlton until I read this piece.