[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]He is the best footballing centre back we have ever had at the club. FACT.
Not sure if WSS is on a wind up with that one but I would have thought that Mark Fish at his best had it all over Majid.
In addition, if Bougherra is so good then why could he only get a move to Scotland where - with all due respect - he is probably earning no more than many Championship players?
Decent player but had too many concentration lapses, not in the same class as Rufus, Shirtliff, Webster and Fish.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]He is the best footballing centre back we have ever had at the club. FACT.
Definite wind up - Rufus, Fish, Costa, Fortune, Brown, Pates ,El Kak .... Christ I could go on further, but can't be bothered. Bougherra was average.
Yes, I forgot Colin Pates, he was a very useful ball player. He ended up playing some games in centre-midfield for the Arse when Graham was trying to see if he could fill his entire XI with centre halves.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]He is the best footballing centre back we have ever had at the club. FACT.
Definite wind up - Rufus, Fish, Costa, Fortune, Brown, Pates ,El Kak .... Christ I could go on further, but can't be bothered. Bougherra was average.
I'd agree with that, except i'm not sure I'd put Costa in there as a 'footballing centre back' - much as I loved Jorge, his talent was in reading the game, positioning and no nonsense blocking/ clearing, rather than silky skills.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]He is the best footballing centre back we have ever had at the club. FACT.
Definite wind up - Rufus, Fish, Costa, Fortune, Brown, Pates ,El Kak .... Christ I could go on further, but can't be bothered. Bougherra was average.
I'd agree with that, except i'm not sure I'd put Costa in there as a 'footballing centre back' - much as I loved Jorge, his talent was in reading the game, positioning and no nonsense blocking/ clearing, rather than silky skills.
I agree but Bougy's silky skills also included falling over, treading on the ball and generally being not very good on far more occasions than any of the above .(although Fish lost it after falling through his glass table).
Nb Given a choice of Bougy or Costa or Brown it's a no brainer for me.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]He is the best footballing centre back we have ever had at the club. FACT.
Definite wind up - Rufus, Fish, Costa, Fortune, Brown, Pates ,El Kak .... Christ I could go on further, but can't be bothered. Bougherra was average.
Only El Kak was a footballing centre back out of that lot - and Bougie was better than him.
Fair enough, I'd have Roof etc in over him because of their defending capabilities but Majid was a superb footballer. None of them could have done what he did last night that's for sure.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]He is the best footballing centre back we have ever had at the club. FACT.
I love the term "footballing centre back" - basically means they're terrible at defending, his primary job.
Utter Rubbish, A footballing Centre Back means a ball playing centre half ala Rio Ferdinand I suppose he is crap at defending as well. The best combinations of Centre half as a pair would be :-
1. A Stopper +
2. A Ball playing centre half.
Rufus + Bougherra are probably the best two of that combination I have seen play in the Red of CAFC in my opinion.
I understand what you mean by footballing centre half, but you've named one exception in Rio, who I'd prefer to think of as an excellent defender who can also carry the ball and pass it. Whereas Bougherra was good at dribbling but shit at defending.
[cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite]I don't believe in all this ball-playing centre-back malarky. Give me two Eddie Youds. I'll be happy.
You might bully a few teams but you'd also lose a lot of games, a centre back pairing like that would get worked out very quickly ! Pace ..Ball over top Goal or Red Card
[cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite]I don't believe in all this ball-playing centre-back malarky. Give me two Eddie Youds. I'll be happy.
You might bully a few teams but you'd also lose a lot of games, a centre back pairing like that would get worked out very quickly ! Pace ..Ball over top Goal or Red Card
Bougy may be a better "footballing" centre back than John Terry, but I know who I'd rather we were "gifted" .
It's the whole job that's important not who "looks the best".
It's like saying Rob Elliot was a better shot stopper than Kiely. So what, Kiely was the better of the two when judged on Charlton performances. (Hopefully Rob will become the better in due course.)
Good on the ground but poor in the air and easily drawn out of position (as Konch was). A bit better than El Kack but not by much. Can we have another Paul Went please?
Ws a big fan of his, preferred him to Elk (when you are better going forward than at the back, you should not be a defender). Also the quote that he is one of worst players to play for us in last 20 years, what about el kalej, traore, faye, all the loans, hudson?
This is classic, all the loons seem to come out to play for Boughera's team. People say 'footballing center back' then mention Rufus. Rufus was a superb defender but the only reason he was never snapped up was because he emerged into an era when loony managers thought that a defender needed to be able to spray the ball around. His distribution was one step above Sol Campbell, it wasn't woeful but neither was it accurate like say Browney's could be.
As somebody else said a footballing center half to be any good needs to be able to defend and have positional integrity. Boughera is woeful there and in the prem would erm be found out massively if the midfield didn't work it's socks off and compress, and be found out massively against the top 6. Boughera's exhilerating runs are no different to Bramble's when he was at Ipswich; 'cept for pace and power place a bit of skill there. All you have to do with that is have a few sharp midfielders and they'll rob him of the ball and revel in the hole that used to be a center half. Add to that his love of general positional walkabout coupled with his every game rant at a ref whilst play has whistled on towards the hole that used to be a center half. There were some games where he played exceptionally, such as Soton 1-1 but remember he was up against the strength that is Bradley Wright-Peters-Out. But most Charlton fans couldn't spot the requirements for a dependable center half pairing or defensively skilled center half if they walked past them in a 'George Graham Loves My Defensive Arse T-Shirt'.
Boughera had most things to be a success but defensive temprement. It was just a massive shame he didn't play with Chris Perry who may have taught him a few things. And yes for all his crimes against positioning he was better than most of our defenders in the last few seasons; massively so than Sodje.
Seems Bougherra's days at Rangers might be numbered, certainly if Walter Smith remains in charge. For the third time this season he arrived back late from International duty and was, by way of a "punishment", left on the bench for last night's vital CL game last night.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Seems Bougherra's days at Rangers might be numbered, certainly if Walter Smith remains in charge. For the third time this season he arrived back late from International duty and was, by way of a "punishment", left on the bench for last night's vital CL game last night.
Oh i didnt realise he was on the bench. I saw the post match interview with Smith at it came across as the Bougherra was still missing!!!. The Interviewer asked 'is the reason for going missing a good one?''..to which Smith Replied ''Well their is no reason...he just hasnt come back!''
To be fair it was late and id had a couple of 'shandy's' so i might have got it completely wrong!
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Seems Bougherra's days at Rangers might be numbered, certainly if Walter Smith remains in charge. For the third time this season he arrived back late from International duty and was, by way of a "punishment", left on the bench for last night's vital CL game last night.
Oh i didnt realise he was on the bench. I saw the post match interview with Smith at it came across as the Bougherra was still missing!!!. The Interviewer asked 'is the reason for going missing a good one?''..to which Smith Replied ''Well their is no reason...he just hasnt come back!''
To be fair it was late and id had a couple of 'shandy's' so i might have got it completely wrong!
Was weird because he did say that and give the impression that he was still missng, but Madjid was on the bench. Maybe someone should have told Walter.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Seems Bougherra's days at Rangers might be numbered, certainly if Walter Smith remains in charge. For the third time this season he arrived back late from International duty and was, by way of a "punishment", left on the bench for last night's vital CL game last night.
Oh i didnt realise he was on the bench. I saw the post match interview with Smith at it came across as the Bougherra was still missing!!!. The Interviewer asked 'is the reason for going missing a good one?''..to which Smith Replied ''Well their is no reason...he just hasnt come back!''
To be fair it was late and id had a couple of 'shandy's' so i might have got it completely wrong!
Just found this thread with 47 unread posts ....... a lot of people evidently didn't rate Boughera, but by the time he was sold he was massively influential in the Charlton side that season.
As Ketters pointed out earlier, you need a stopper and a sweeper type combimation at centre back- the stopper to attack the first ball, and the other to go for the second ball, mop up any debris and if possible play the ball out.
As a 'second ball' CB, Bougherra needed to be part of the right combination - and teamed with Jon Fortune (also a second ball CB) it was always too passive, with indecision as to which of them would attack the first ball.
Teamed with Paddy McCarthy was a different story - Paddy would attack that first ball, and a pacy Bougherra would work in tandem to clear up the debris, and pass or play the ball out of defence,quite often initiating our counter attack.
It was the right combination, and brought the best out of both CBs.
The coaching staff here rated him very highly indeed, and obviously he looked, erm .....magic in training.
Unfortunately he could be somewhat of a confidence player - and maybe his reputation in some people's eyes never recovered after a few hesitant early Charlton appearances and when played in the wrong combination....?
He evidently came on a bundle at Rangers last season - and I'm sure benefitted being around intelligent, composed and experienced players like Christian Dailly.
Smith did say that and I think it was an extremely poor attempt to deflect the question. Bouggie was late arriving back at the weekend so there was every opportunity to pcik him but it looks like Smith has just had enough of him doinghis own thing. Once is acceptable, twice is unfortunate but three times is probably unforgiveable.
On the other hand, is it possible that Bouggie and/or his agent is trying to engineer a move - back to the Premiership?
Bouherra struggled with us, partly because we weren't a good team at the time, partly because he needs the right type of partner but mostly because of injuries. An injury free three/four months playing alongside Dailly and he'd look what he is - an international defender.
Comments
Surely you're forgetting Peter Shaw?
Not sure if WSS is on a wind up with that one but I would have thought that Mark Fish at his best had it all over Majid.
In addition, if Bougherra is so good then why could he only get a move to Scotland where - with all due respect - he is probably earning no more than many Championship players?
Decent player but had too many concentration lapses, not in the same class as Rufus, Shirtliff, Webster and Fish.
Definite wind up - Rufus, Fish, Costa, Fortune, Brown, Pates ,El Kak .... Christ I could go on further, but can't be bothered. Bougherra was average.
Yes, I forgot Colin Pates, he was a very useful ball player. He ended up playing some games in centre-midfield for the Arse when Graham was trying to see if he could fill his entire XI with centre halves.
I'd agree with that, except i'm not sure I'd put Costa in there as a 'footballing centre back' - much as I loved Jorge, his talent was in reading the game, positioning and no nonsense blocking/ clearing, rather than silky skills.
One amazing long-range free-kick can't paper over what a bad, bad defender he was.
Watch the first Spurs goal in the game which sent us down for a prime example of his appalling inability to even try to defend properly...
I agree but Bougy's silky skills also included falling over, treading on the ball and generally being not very good on far more occasions than any of the above .(although Fish lost it after falling through his glass table).
Nb Given a choice of Bougy or Costa or Brown it's a no brainer for me.
Fair enough, I'd have Roof etc in over him because of their defending capabilities but Majid was a superb footballer. None of them could have done what he did last night that's for sure.
I love the term "footballing centre back" - basically means they're terrible at defending, his primary job.
Utter Rubbish, A footballing Centre Back means a ball playing centre half ala Rio Ferdinand I suppose he is crap at defending as well. The best combinations of Centre half as a pair would be :-
1. A Stopper +
2. A Ball playing centre half.
Rufus + Bougherra are probably the best two of that combination I have seen play in the Red of CAFC in my opinion.
You might bully a few teams but you'd also lose a lot of games, a centre back pairing like that would get worked out very quickly ! Pace ..Ball over top Goal or Red Card
Not if I tell them to stand on the 18 yard line!
It's the whole job that's important not who "looks the best".
It's like saying Rob Elliot was a better shot stopper than Kiely. So what, Kiely was the better of the two when judged on Charlton performances. (Hopefully Rob will become the better in due course.)
Also the quote that he is one of worst players to play for us in last 20 years, what about el kalej, traore, faye, all the loans, hudson?
As somebody else said a footballing center half to be any good needs to be able to defend and have positional integrity. Boughera is woeful there and in the prem would erm be found out massively if the midfield didn't work it's socks off and compress, and be found out massively against the top 6. Boughera's exhilerating runs are no different to Bramble's when he was at Ipswich; 'cept for pace and power place a bit of skill there. All you have to do with that is have a few sharp midfielders and they'll rob him of the ball and revel in the hole that used to be a center half. Add to that his love of general positional walkabout coupled with his every game rant at a ref whilst play has whistled on towards the hole that used to be a center half. There were some games where he played exceptionally, such as Soton 1-1 but remember he was up against the strength that is Bradley Wright-Peters-Out. But most Charlton fans couldn't spot the requirements for a dependable center half pairing or defensively skilled center half if they walked past them in a 'George Graham Loves My Defensive Arse T-Shirt'.
Boughera had most things to be a success but defensive temprement. It was just a massive shame he didn't play with Chris Perry who may have taught him a few things. And yes for all his crimes against positioning he was better than most of our defenders in the last few seasons; massively so than Sodje.
Oh i didnt realise he was on the bench. I saw the post match interview with Smith at it came across as the Bougherra was still missing!!!. The Interviewer asked 'is the reason for going missing a good one?''..to which Smith Replied ''Well their is no reason...he just hasnt come back!''
To be fair it was late and id had a couple of 'shandy's' so i might have got it completely wrong!
Was weird because he did say that and give the impression that he was still missng, but Madjid was on the bench. Maybe someone should have told Walter.
i thought i heard that aswell
As Ketters pointed out earlier, you need a stopper and a sweeper type combimation at centre back- the stopper to attack the first ball, and the other to go for the second ball, mop up any debris and if possible play the ball out.
As a 'second ball' CB, Bougherra needed to be part of the right combination - and teamed with Jon Fortune (also a second ball CB) it was always too passive, with indecision as to which of them would attack the first ball.
Teamed with Paddy McCarthy was a different story - Paddy would attack that first ball, and a pacy Bougherra would work in tandem to clear up the debris, and pass or play the ball out of defence,quite often initiating our counter attack.
It was the right combination, and brought the best out of both CBs.
The coaching staff here rated him very highly indeed, and obviously he looked, erm .....magic in training.
Unfortunately he could be somewhat of a confidence player - and maybe his reputation in some people's eyes never recovered after a few hesitant early Charlton appearances and when played in the wrong combination....?
He evidently came on a bundle at Rangers last season - and I'm sure benefitted being around intelligent, composed and experienced players like Christian Dailly.
On the other hand, is it possible that Bouggie and/or his agent is trying to engineer a move - back to the Premiership?