[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]At the time of his departure, the club said "we've secured the best possible deal for both the player and ourselves."
so with him now linked with £5m moves to England or France, will someone reassure that of course there was a sell on clause......
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]At the time of his departure, the club said "we've secured the best possible deal for both the player and ourselves."
so with him now linked with £5m moves to England or France, will someone reassure that of course there was a sell on clause......
You work in the city, you know the price of players can fall as well as rise.
[cite]Posted By: dabos[/cite]I've no idea how Bougherra has turned into a £5m-rated player. At times for us he was all over the place. I too hope we have a sell-on clause.
On an aside, did we cheekily include a sell-on clause for Darren Bent?
Bougherra was class last year in the SPL. Of course Carlos Cuellar looked class the year before (and in Europe) but has found it hard making the transition to the English Premier. Bougherra is a great defender as long as he plays alongside someone who has a good defensive brain, for instance David Weir who was his centre back partner for most of the season at Rangers. Either way I'm not sure I would shell out £5m for a defender who's quality only shines depending on the player he's partnered with.
Oh and I don't think there is a sell on clause, I think we basically just got back what we paid. I think there was a sell on clause for bent but only applied to profit (so any fee over £16.5m) and even that may have been removed when we factored the fee last year.
I think he was Ranger's player of the year last season, in a team that won the league and cup that's an achievement even if it's a two team league.
The problem he faced at Charlton was that he was injured a fair bit and hardly had a decent run of games, plus he wasn't playing alongside a settled and confident defence. It'd be no surprise to me if handled properly that he'd hold down a place in a better team than Charlton (or Rangers).
I'm not quite sure why performing well for Rangers in a terrible league is seen as a yardstick on doing well in English football. Boumsong was terrible for Newcastle, Cuellar can hardly get in the Villa team, so i'm not quite sure how well Bougherra would do in the top flight. He looked decent enough at times for us but thats all he was, nothing more.
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]I'm not quite sure why performing well for Rangers in a terrible league is seen as a yardstick on doing well in English football. Boumsong was terrible for Newcastle, Cuellar can hardly get in the Villa team, so i'm not quite sure how well Bougherra would do in the top flight. He looked decent enough at times for us but thats all he was, nothing more.
Maybe £5m isn't seen as a gamble by most English Premier League sides.
[cite]Posted By: dabos[/cite]I've no idea how Bougherra has turned into a £5m-rated player. At times for us he was all over the place.
Unfair, did more for us than Paddy Mac and Hudson put together!
I'm not convinced by that. I think he scored in the 1-1 draw v Hull at home, yet put in one of the worst central defensive performances I've ever seen. I didn't think he was much better than Paddy Mac, if at all. He was obviously better on the ball, but he still frequently went walk-about, a la Mark Fish.
Thought he was one of our best players at times in 2007/08 and it is no coincidence results started to go badly and the defence looked shaky after he got injured around feb 2008. Think after the Palace home game he did not play again! Could play for many prem clubs and look decent imo. much better than hudson!
He's got pace and is very comfortable on the ball, not many central defenders tick those boxes. I can see most of the premier league would be very interested in him.
He was still pretty inexperienced when he played for Charlton.....players are rarely the the finished article from day one. He's playing a higher standard now, with better players so he's obviously improved. We bought him as a player with potential but didn't have time to see that potential realised. He wasn't quite aggressive enough in the air for me (like a number of foreign centre-halves) but thought that would come with time and he now looks to have improved that side of his game quite a bit. Always wondered whether we could have used him a centre-midfielder...pictured him bursting through with Gascoigne type strength and control....but maybe it was felt his passing wouldn't be good enough.
Remeber when we signed him Everton were in for him too, but he said he chose us because Pards wanted to use him as centre back but Moyes saw him as a holding midfielder.
It would have been good to see him partnered with Diawara in the first season back in the Champs - I think they'd have complemented each other well, like Rufus and Fish used to. He was shaky defender when we had him though, even more prone to lapses and over elboration than Youga imo. With the right partner and a manager who knew how to organise a defence he could have been very good, sadly we had neither at the time.
Amazed that people thought he was any good for us. In the 1-1 draw against Hull in which he scored, he put in one of the worst centre back performances I've ever seen. I reckon he'd be better in midfield, was a complete liability at the back. Admittedly he was playing alongside McCarthy, but I'm always a little suspicious when people say a centre back needs a good partner alongside him. Why couldn't he be the better half of the centre back pairing?
It's all about balance though isn't it Dabos - no good having two players who want to go and head everything and no-one skulking around to sweep up the leftovers. As I said, Fish and Rufus were a good example. Fish was a better ball player but Rufus had the pace to cover any mistakes - that way we got the benefits of having a defender who was comfortable on the ball but with the insurance of Rufus if Fish ballsed up. In an ideal world Fish would have been a ball playing centre back who never ballsed up, but if he was he'd have been playing for Arsenal or someone - not Charlton!
But I generally agree, I was never a massive fan of Boogie's - I saw him have another absolute mare of a game at Coventry, far worse in terms of hair-brained incompetence than anything Youga's ever produced for us. But he did have some good games for us and there was always potential there given some of his physical and technical attributes, I guess we just din't have the time/money/coaching staff to get the best out of him.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]It's all about balance though isn't it Dabos - no good having two players who want to go and head everything and no-one skulking around to sweep up the leftovers. As I said, Fish and Rufus were a good example. Fish was a better ball player but Rufus had the pace to cover any mistakes - that way we got the benefits of having a defender who was comfortable on the ball but with the insurance of Rufus if Fish ballsed up. In an ideal world Fish would have been a ball playing centre back who never ballsed up, but if he was he'd have been playing for Arsenal or someone - not Charlton!
But I generally agree, I was never a massive fan of Boogie's - I saw him have another absolute mare of a game at Coventry, far worse in terms of hair-brained incompetence than anything Youga's ever produced for us. But he did have some good games for us and there was always potential there given some of his physical and technical attributes, I guess we just din't have the time/money/coaching staff to get the best out of him.
Shame, but's that's life.
I see what you're saying. However most people say that Boogie needs a "good" centre half alongside him, rather than someone who deals better with the specific scenarios you mention. This to me suggests that he lacks fundamental defensive skills.
My argument is somewhat nullified by the fact that he is playing and scoring in the Champions League, but I'll attempt to stand by it
It was commonly agreed by all the coaching staff at the time at Charlton that Bougherra was one of ther most talented defenders we had ever had at the club. It's all about harnassing it correctly. For me the reason we were so poor at the back last season was that we never replaced him with anyone of the same class. As someone mentioned above, it was no coincidence that after the palace game he got injured our form deteriorated rapidly & when he returned at the end we started picking up points.
Sorry exiled? Howabouts Messrs Bould, Adams and Keown. Or just about every major eyetie team since Saachi's revolution of 4-4-2. Boughera is a talented player, but you will never make him a reliable center half in any of the top leagues. Lapses of concetration that he has are epic in their madness. He'd do well at say maybe Real Betis for a season, but then have dodgy years when the pressure is on for a side to repeat it's success.
"Magic" (a nickname he gave to himsef ffs!) was one of the worst players I've seen play for CAFC over the last 20 odd years. I was amazed when we got our 2m back for him to be honest...
Am I right in thinking that the legendary Diawara was also playing Champions League football this week? Does that make him a good footballer too?!
[cite]Posted By: YTS[/cite]"Magic" (a nickname he gave to himsef ffs!) was one of the worst players I've seen play for CAFC over the last 20 odd years. I was amazed when we got our 2m back for him to be honest...
Am I right in thinking that the legendary Diawara was also playing Champions League football this week? Does that make him a good footballer too?!
[cite]Posted By: YTS[/cite]"Magic" (a nickname he gave to himsef ffs!) was one of the worst players I've seen play for CAFC over the last 20 odd years....
Are you trying to win Silly Post of the Year 2009?
[cite]Posted By: YTS[/cite]"Magic" (a nickname he gave to himsef ffs!) was one of the worst players I've seen play for CAFC over the last 20 odd years....
Are you trying to win Silly Post of the Year 2009?
I think more people would agree with YTS than you might think. I am staggered at some of the praise he is getting on this thread.
Comments
Ask your mate Derek : - )
On an aside, did we cheekily include a sell-on clause for Darren Bent?
Or for Bent for that matter - and even if there was it would only matter if Spurs sold him for a profit.
Bougherra was class last year in the SPL. Of course Carlos Cuellar looked class the year before (and in Europe) but has found it hard making the transition to the English Premier. Bougherra is a great defender as long as he plays alongside someone who has a good defensive brain, for instance David Weir who was his centre back partner for most of the season at Rangers. Either way I'm not sure I would shell out £5m for a defender who's quality only shines depending on the player he's partnered with.
Oh and I don't think there is a sell on clause, I think we basically just got back what we paid. I think there was a sell on clause for bent but only applied to profit (so any fee over £16.5m) and even that may have been removed when we factored the fee last year.
The problem he faced at Charlton was that he was injured a fair bit and hardly had a decent run of games, plus he wasn't playing alongside a settled and confident defence. It'd be no surprise to me if handled properly that he'd hold down a place in a better team than Charlton (or Rangers).
Unfair, did more for us than Paddy Mac and Hudson put together!
Maybe £5m isn't seen as a gamble by most English Premier League sides.
I'm not convinced by that. I think he scored in the 1-1 draw v Hull at home, yet put in one of the worst central defensive performances I've ever seen. I didn't think he was much better than Paddy Mac, if at all. He was obviously better on the ball, but he still frequently went walk-about, a la Mark Fish.
It would have been good to see him partnered with Diawara in the first season back in the Champs - I think they'd have complemented each other well, like Rufus and Fish used to. He was shaky defender when we had him though, even more prone to lapses and over elboration than Youga imo. With the right partner and a manager who knew how to organise a defence he could have been very good, sadly we had neither at the time.
But I generally agree, I was never a massive fan of Boogie's - I saw him have another absolute mare of a game at Coventry, far worse in terms of hair-brained incompetence than anything Youga's ever produced for us. But he did have some good games for us and there was always potential there given some of his physical and technical attributes, I guess we just din't have the time/money/coaching staff to get the best out of him.
Shame, but's that's life.
I see what you're saying. However most people say that Boogie needs a "good" centre half alongside him, rather than someone who deals better with the specific scenarios you mention. This to me suggests that he lacks fundamental defensive skills.
My argument is somewhat nullified by the fact that he is playing and scoring in the Champions League, but I'll attempt to stand by it
Am I right in thinking that the legendary Diawara was also playing Champions League football this week? Does that make him a good footballer too?!
Hmm...
Probably better than Phil Chapple tbh.
I think more people would agree with YTS than you might think. I am staggered at some of the praise he is getting on this thread.
Some people though are writing about him as if he is a modern day Beckenbauer and he certainly never played to those levels with us.
I would place him on a par with or slightly below El Karkouri who at least performed successfully in the Prem for us.