[cite]Posted By: Covered End[/cite]Which proves that the buyers leaking this info is having the effect they want. Some fans are turning more strongly against the board and the creditors are now chasing. The pressure is increasing, which is exactly what they want !
So, instead of being a piece of well-timed, informative and checkable source of journalism reflecting the accuracies of the current financial predicament of Charlton Football Club, poor old Mick has been done up like a kipper by the people we hope are going to end the misery and buy out the club...?
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Exactly, Covered End ..... but when you read Mick's full article posted earlier on this thread, it gives an entirely different meaning generally, compared to his sub-editor's drastically edited paragraph which appeared in the MoS.
At the end of the day (as Lennie Lawrence always used to say), it does seem that the 'source close to the bid' had every intent in driving the value of the club down.
Think the whole article would have caused problems, I know Mick probably didn't mean it to be this way, but a Journo will always want the scoop, and sod the consequence
[cite]Posted By: Covered End[/cite]Which proves that the buyers leaking this info is having the effect they want. Some fans are turning more strongly against the board and the creditors are now chasing. The pressure is increasing, which is exactly what they want !
So, instead of being a piece of well-timed, informative and checkable source of journalism reflecting the accuracies of the current financial predicament of Charlton Football Club, poor old Mick has been done up like a kipper by the people we hope are going to end the misery and buy out the club...?
Not sure whether that's a serious question or not and it's not what I said :-)
Suzi Sausage said in a previous thread that phone lines to the club Accounts office have been red hot today, with creditors anxious about payment, even though invoice terms are not due yet.
And all because of the bad publicity caused as a result of the drastically edited MoS article.
i think suzi was guessing this could happen, not sure it was a fact
and do we really think creditors to charlton are scrolling though the sunday papers to find two lines about us and take it as gospel ..... i mean please time to get over precious little selves surely
Lets face it folks, it doesn't matter what Mick, you are I think.
We need to face facts, the club are not going to tell us whats going on for whatever reason. We are begging for answers, and as yet, they have not replied to our demands.
We are either not being told because the stories are true, or its all rubbish. At the end of the day, we just want to know if its true or false. A one line statment by the club would end this talk, but they don't seem to want to answer, why??
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]and do we really think creditors to charlton are scrolling though the sunday papers to find two lines about us and take it as gospel ..... i mean please time to get over precious little selves surely
Hey this is the age of the tinternet mate, I've seen Charlton fans from Oz, Thailand and all points north asking about this......
Suzi Sausage said in a previous thread that phone lines to the club Accounts office have been red hot today, with creditors anxious about payment, even though invoice terms are not due yet.
And all because of the bad publicity caused as a result of the drastically edited MoS article.
i think suzi was guessing this could happen, not sure it was a fact
and do we really think creditors to charlton are scrolling though the sunday papers to find two lines about us and take it as gospel ..... i mean please time to get over precious little selves surely
Oohaa
it did happen today apparently i dont think anyone is being precious it was a poorly timed piece of info we are not a global concern and those we are currently doing business with would IMO be interested and able enough to find the info out
[cite]Posted By: cafckev[/cite] they don't seem to want to answer, why??
well if i was in their thankless position(never would have happened cos i'd have broke the bank to keep curbs) and was in the process of losing a large fortune trying to sell the club, not sure i'd respond to too many questions thrown at me by the same fans i'd so generously let watch premiership football at a ridiculously cheap price when if i'd been a bit more hard nosed(selfish) maybe the financial predicament i now found myself in wouldn't be that bad!
[cite]Posted By: Red_in_SE8[/cite]If we are able to keep the current squad we should win this league easily.
I know that's just a minor point, but whoever is our manager, whatever our squad is like when the transfer window closes, we will not 'win this league easily'. Leicester won it by about 7 points, they looked the favourites for a long time, but to play like they did so consistently wasn't easy for them. Our squad still doesn't have enough centre backs or any strikers we know will score goals, and apart from Bailey no one else to play on the left. That's not a balanced squad good enough for promotion.
I don't think having that sort of attitude does the club or fans any good. Puts huge pressure on and unrealistic expectations to win every game, thrashing teams along the way. We had fans (and a manager in Pardew) that thought we were easily the best team in the league, but it ended up that we were nothing like the best.
i think a lot of us are just perhaps the timing was wrong i wouldnt like to think that there was anything other than good intentions ment by it, i just wish it was based on fact and quotes from named sources within the business men and the club, but seeing how little is coming from within those 2 quarters i feel it was poorly timed
fair enough nla didn't realise there'd been a run on our unpaid debts etc, i stand corrected...
but we are far too touchy at the moment especially when mick has reported things that we don't like, to dig him out is unfair when he imo would definitely not feed us crap ...
all i've seen on here for the last few months is 'on this date this'll be announced... my mate at the club has said this takeover that takeover blah blah blah..' all turned out to be solid b****hit, yeah at the time it may have been believed to be true but has since turned out to be crap
and if any of micks stories turn out to be crap i'm sure he'll be the first to apologise ....
problem is the truth hurts
and we're all hurting ;-(
No one is digging him out, some people are asking pretty fair questions of the journalist who put up a story, which has caused a shit storm in the finance department of the club.
Surely it's all brinkmanship. The buying group are after our club for next to nothing and the directors want to get some of their money back. The threat of administration is a trump card but it is evil as Suzie says. Lots of Charlton folk will lose money and thus their love and devotion to Charlton as a result. We don't want tot go down the Ken Bates route unless we are totally in dire straits. I also think it suits the buying group to get as close as they can to the opening match because until the season starts money does not pour into the club through the turnstiles. I hope Murray gets out of all of this with his shirt intact because he will always be a hero of mine. He is being heavily punished for backing Dowie's/Pardew's faulty judgement of a player, plus having to over pay in wages to lure them to the Valley. Who whould be a chairman?
It seems that all of this laundry in public is putting pressure on the club.
Pressure on the club to do something. Pressure on the club to say something.
I'm not sure what those somethings might be, but given the situation and the accompanying silence, that may not be such a bad thing.
As Prague Addick noted several pages back, the lower price new owners pay, the more they potentially have to spend on the club.
On the other side, who wouldn't want to make the best possible deal in any sale?
The pressure may force a resolution sooner, but either way, a resolution is needed.
[cite]Posted By: American_Addick[/cite]It seems that all of this laundry in public is putting pressure on the club.
Pressure on the club to do something. Pressure on the club to say something.
I'm not sure what those somethings might be, but given the situation and the accompanying silence, that may not be such a bad thing.
I wouldnt dig him out mate like i said earlier i dont think he would willingly or meaningfully do anything to hurt our club, just unfortunate that this has happend imo and i dont think it has done him, us the club or the investors any good in any way.
I appreciate the scale of the posts are now making this debate increasingly tortuous but the growing assertion this is just mischievous journalism merely based on opinion is misplaced.
The club has stated - For a considerable period it was/ is seeking new investors. - It is operating with 14mn REPAYABLE friendly debt and a 6mn mortgage - It has sold assets (e.g. the training ground) to improve liquidity - Mr. Waggott just weeks ago was still working on managing a 16mn revenue loss
Directors withdrew from a Q&A session on 11th hour legal advice for a 2nd time.
Mr. Murray stated he & fellow directors were prepared to write off their investment.
Including loan players we, since end of last season, have released/ sold 14 players and signed just 2 free transfers and 2 academy players to contracts. 3 players are out of contract waiting for their contract offers to be finalized. The club first team coach is out of contract but still with the club.
The author of the piece is known to us. It does not say the club is going into administration but refers to a source close to potential new investors indicating they would likely secure a less tangled and financially more attractive proposition by dealing with an administrator. Attributable or not the premise behind that statement is true. It is invariably the case.
There is conjecture re the level & nature of debt (but friendly debt & budgetary shortfall numbers are known). To argue the club is slowly dying on its feet is contentious but the budgetary shortfall is clear.
The comments are unattributed but with the nature of the events listed you almost do not need a source. Many independent financiers would give you the same assessment.
The article brings a sharper focus on the issues facing the club to us its supporters. To a degree “it is old news” and many will have independently previously assessed the position but to this point deferred to the board, accepting their implied assurances all will be well. Some will continue to do so.
This article challenges our tacit acceptance of the way things are announcing publically just maybe “the Emperor has no clothes”. It draws a line under "the drift" that has engulfed the club enabling supporters to challenge the specifics of the difficulties we face and the strategies the board does or does not have to manage such challenges.
Its timing is crucial. The club is in preseason and our playing squad as commented on by Messrs. Brown and Hales appears ill equipped for the season ahead.
This is not about personalities or the vilification of members of the board - it is about a snapshot of the position the club is in and about a sensible informed discussion about its short and long term future. A discussion many feel is now long overdue. If this article proves a catalyst to such dicussions and provides a clarity for the way ahead it will have served us well. Hopefully all will end well.
Can I just clarify that I haven't spoken to my former colleages in accounts about it today, but going on what happened last time whenever the previous administration story came out, people were still quoting it in the week I left and asking for payment, so it didn't go away the first time so I only assume they'll be stepping up their calls to an already stressed accounts dept. I think to be fair to some od the smaller suppliers they'd be being negligent if they didn't keep up to date with news regarding who they supply to so they may well get wind of any bad rumours and be worried.
Grapevine, what a well crafted post. I wish i could have wrote that.
In fact, there have been a fantastic number of well crafted, thoughtful and challenging posts that have made pretty compulsive reading over the last two days, so thank you to everyone.
[cite]Posted By: Grapevine49 [/cite] This article challenges our tacit acceptance of the way things are
announcing publically just maybe “the Emperor has no clothes”. It draws a line under "the drift" that has engulfed the club enabling supporters to challenge the specifics of the difficulties we face and the strategies the board does or does not have to manage such challenges.
Its timing is crucial. The club is in preseason and our playing squad as commented on by Messrs. Brown and Hales appears ill equipped for the season ahead.
This is not about personalities or the vilification of members of the board - it is about a snapshot of the position the club is in and about a sensible informed discussion about its short and long term future. A discussion many feel is now long overdue. If this article proves a catalyst to such dicussions and provides a clarity for the way ahead it will have served us well. Hopefully all will end well.
Exactly.
This isn't about good vs. evil.
For supporters, it is about what is best to keep the club breathing, and move it forward.
Comments
Think the whole article would have caused problems, I know Mick probably didn't mean it to be this way, but a Journo will always want the scoop, and sod the consequence
Not sure whether that's a serious question or not and it's not what I said :-)
i think suzi was guessing this could happen, not sure it was a fact
and do we really think creditors to charlton are scrolling though the sunday papers to find two lines about us and take it as gospel ..... i mean please time to get over precious little selves surely
We need to face facts, the club are not going to tell us whats going on for whatever reason. We are begging for answers, and as yet, they have not replied to our demands.
We are either not being told because the stories are true, or its all rubbish. At the end of the day, we just want to know if its true or false. A one line statment by the club would end this talk, but they don't seem to want to answer, why??
Oohaa
it did happen today apparently i dont think anyone is being precious it was a poorly timed piece of info we are not a global concern and those we are currently doing business with would IMO be interested and able enough to find the info out
well if i was in their thankless position(never would have happened cos i'd have broke the bank to keep curbs) and was in the process of losing a large fortune trying to sell the club, not sure i'd respond to too many questions thrown at me by the same fans i'd so generously let watch premiership football at a ridiculously cheap price when if i'd been a bit more hard nosed(selfish) maybe the financial predicament i now found myself in wouldn't be that bad!
I don't think having that sort of attitude does the club or fans any good. Puts huge pressure on and unrealistic expectations to win every game, thrashing teams along the way. We had fans (and a manager in Pardew) that thought we were easily the best team in the league, but it ended up that we were nothing like the best.
but we are far too touchy at the moment especially when mick has reported things that we don't like, to dig him out is unfair when he imo would definitely not feed us crap ...
all i've seen on here for the last few months is 'on this date this'll be announced... my mate at the club has said this takeover that takeover blah blah blah..' all turned out to be solid b****hit, yeah at the time it may have been believed to be true but has since turned out to be crap
and if any of micks stories turn out to be crap i'm sure he'll be the first to apologise ....
problem is the truth hurts
and we're all hurting ;-(
The threat of administration is a trump card but it is evil as Suzie says. Lots of Charlton folk will lose money and thus their love and devotion to Charlton as a result. We don't want tot go down the Ken Bates route unless we are totally in dire straits.
I also think it suits the buying group to get as close as they can to the opening match because until the season starts money does not pour into the club through the turnstiles.
I hope Murray gets out of all of this with his shirt intact because he will always be a hero of mine. He is being heavily punished for backing Dowie's/Pardew's faulty judgement of a player, plus having to over pay in wages to lure them to the Valley.
Who whould be a chairman?
Pressure on the club to do something. Pressure on the club to say something.
I'm not sure what those somethings might be, but given the situation and the accompanying silence, that may not be such a bad thing.
As Prague Addick noted several pages back, the lower price new owners pay, the more they potentially have to spend on the club.
On the other side, who wouldn't want to make the best possible deal in any sale?
The pressure may force a resolution sooner, but either way, a resolution is needed.
someone with more money than sense or no sense of money....
i don't think mick can reaveal his 'source' but i'm sure it's reliable....
to think creditors wanting to be paid , the cheek of it!!
i think there is a lot of truth in that AA
which is a real shame
The club has stated
- For a considerable period it was/ is seeking new investors.
- It is operating with 14mn REPAYABLE friendly debt and a 6mn mortgage
- It has sold assets (e.g. the training ground) to improve liquidity
- Mr. Waggott just weeks ago was still working on managing a 16mn revenue loss
Directors withdrew from a Q&A session on 11th hour legal advice for a 2nd time.
Mr. Murray stated he & fellow directors were prepared to write off their investment.
Including loan players we, since end of last season, have released/ sold 14 players and signed just 2 free transfers and 2 academy players to contracts. 3 players are out of contract waiting for their contract offers to be finalized. The club first team coach is out of contract but still with the club.
The author of the piece is known to us. It does not say the club is going into administration but refers to a source close to potential new investors indicating they would likely secure a less tangled and financially more attractive proposition by dealing with an administrator. Attributable or not the premise behind that statement is true. It is invariably the case.
There is conjecture re the level & nature of debt (but friendly debt & budgetary shortfall numbers are known). To argue the club is slowly dying on its feet is contentious but the budgetary shortfall is clear.
The comments are unattributed but with the nature of the events listed you almost do not need a source. Many independent financiers would give you the same assessment.
The article brings a sharper focus on the issues facing the club to us its supporters. To a degree “it is old news” and many will have independently previously assessed the position but to this point deferred to the board, accepting their implied assurances all will be well. Some will continue to do so.
This article challenges our tacit acceptance of the way things are
announcing publically just maybe “the Emperor has no clothes”. It draws a line under "the drift" that has engulfed the club enabling supporters to challenge the specifics of the difficulties we face and the strategies the board does or does not have to manage such challenges.
Its timing is crucial. The club is in preseason and our playing squad as commented on by Messrs. Brown and Hales appears ill equipped for the season ahead.
This is not about personalities or the vilification of members of the board - it is about a snapshot of the position the club is in and about a sensible informed discussion about its short and long term future. A discussion many feel is now long overdue. If this article proves a catalyst to such dicussions and provides a clarity for the way ahead it will have served us well. Hopefully all will end well.
Grapevine49
In fact, there have been a fantastic number of well crafted, thoughtful and challenging posts that have made pretty compulsive reading over the last two days, so thank you to everyone.
Exactly.
This isn't about good vs. evil.
For supporters, it is about what is best to keep the club breathing, and move it forward.