[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]Am I the only who doesn't think Nicky Bailey is all that? I love his energy and enthusiasm but I really don't think he'd be that hard to replace, even in League 1 - the lower leagues are littered with players who get by mainly on their work rate. Okay, Bailey is probably one of the better examples of such a player but if clubs are seriously talking about paying £1.5M plus for him, i'd wouldn't even think about turning that down.
He scores goals, doesn't go missing, can play in several midfield positions, gets stuck in...
He reminds me a bit of a midfield version of Steve Brown - as a player Brown wasn't all that good, but the things that he brought to the team allowed him to prosper as a team-player.
[cite]Posted By: Crazy[/cite]Plymouth do not have the funds to purchase Racon. He's too good for them and in all honesty too good for us. But I hope we keep him. IF Racon were to be transfered then he should be in one of the top six Championship teams, not a mid table mediocre team like Plymouth.
Plymouth mid-table ?
They finished in 20th, just one place above the relegated three.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]It's fair enough comment about the goals, but I would say you could probably nock 3 to 5 off that tally for goals he's cost us with missed placed passes or rash tackles.
Have to agree with that. It's mistakes like that which he won't get away with playing regularly in central midfield for a team that wants to get promoted.
[cite]Posted By: Crazy[/cite]Plymouth do not have the funds to purchase Racon. He's too good for them and in all honesty too good for us. But I hope we keep him. IF Racon were to be transfered then he should be in one of the top six Championship teams, not a mid table mediocre team like Plymouth.
Plymouth mid-table ?
They finished in 20th, just one place above the relegated three.
and one of the very few teams we beat so they must be crap.
[quote][cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]It will be of no surprise to me to see Shelvey, Bailey, Racon and Sam elsewhere before the start of next season.
Hence the 1st June deadline for people to renew. The theory being get people committed before the departures.
Nevertheless I still renewed.
We are entering a new Glikstenlike era. Get used to it.
How I hope you are wrong Mr Glover , the wilderness years.
A midfielder who works hard, puts in a tackle and scores more than his fair share! Oh yeah, for a team that finished bottom by a HUGE distance, we would never miss someone like that - would we?!
As for Racon - good player, but not the messiah some are making him out to be.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]A midfielder who works hard, puts in a tackle and scores more than his fair share! Oh yeah, for a team that finished bottom by a HUGE distance, we would never miss someone like that - would we?!
As for Racon - good player, but not the messiah some are making him out to be.
Not the Messiah, Offy ........ quite possibly not even a very naughty boy.
But at Third Division level, he's going to be a quality player and could prove to be a vital cog in a hopefully successful team.
I think that's recognised by the Charlton management anyone left at Sparrows Lane.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]A midfielder who works hard, puts in a tackle and scores more than his fair share! Oh yeah, for a team that finished bottom by a HUGE distance, we would never miss someone like that - would we?!
As for Racon - good player, but not the messiah some are making him out to be.
To be fair neither Racon or Bailey are the messiah. Both good players, very good for the level we'll be at next season.
If that was directed at me Off-it, I think you're miss-understanding my point. You don't need to be born with any special natural gift to be able to put your foot and work hard - I can do that. Okay, I'm not suggesting for a second we should sell Bailey and put me in midfield, but my point is lots and lots of players do that. The goals of course add a big bonus, but in a proper side with proper strikers, we shouldn't miss them so much.
Racon however, works hard and puts his foot in, but is also a technically gifted player and has a vastly superior football brain to Bailey. Given the choice of the two, I'd take Racon everytime because, imo, players with the blend of talents that Racon has are very hard to come by, especially for a team in League 1.
Maybe I'm getting a bit over excited by him, but I think he's the closest we've come to Scott Parker since wide-tie-boy was sold, albeit at a lower level.
Talking about Bailey 'putting his foot in', isn't his tackling a bit overrated? He's not a proper ball winner like Parker was for us (or at a lower level). Too often for me he gives away free kicks, and at times I've seen him mis-time his slide tackles so badly he doesn't even make contact with the player, never mind the ball. Just dives in when he really doesn't need to, and he gets away with mistakes because he 'gets stuck in' more than other players do. If Ambrose gave away a bad pass, crowd always reacts a lot worse than when Bailey has.
The point is that Bailey makes the most of his talent and if he mis-times a tackle or screws up a pass or shot you know that won't stop him attempting another tackle/pass. Except fleetingly Ambrose has never made the most of his superior talent and ability, and fans although we are fickle, prefer the honest trier rather than the type who is scared to attempt something for fear of failure.
Easily good enough for the Championship, IMO a way better all round player than Bailey. However, if we can kepp one of the two I will be more than satisfied.
Shelvey is the messiah!!!
From the words of the special one, 'The best 17 year old in the country'.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]The point is that Bailey makes the most of his talent and if he mis-times a tackle or screws up a pass or shot you know that won't stop him attempting another tackle/pass. Except fleetingly Ambrose has never made the most of his superior talent and ability, and fans although we are fickle, prefer the honest trier rather than the type who is scared to attempt something for fear of failure.
True except for Kish who was a real "marmite" player. Even his detractors like Chirpy won't criticise his effort yet still people didn't like him.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]True except for Kish who was a real "marmite" player. Even his detractors like Chirpy won't criticise his effort yet still people didn't like him.
Part of that was related to us being in the Prem with much bigger expectations, I think there were fans there who thought we could get someone a lot better than Kishishev to do his job.
I'd much rather keep Bailey than Racon any day of the week for next season.
Bailey's a proven player in League 1 and the lower leagues with Southend and Barnet, where as Racon only had a brief spell with Brighton (and from what my Brighton supporter said, didn't exactly set the world on fire) Whether Racon could adapt to League 1 week in, week out is debatabe. League 1 is more physically demanding both in terms of games (don't forget the Football League trophy, 1st round of FA Cup) and Racon isn't someone I believe you can build a team around for a whole season, where as Bailey's drive and energy from midfield would surely be a key factor.
Give Bailey the captaincy and if Plymouth offer even £500,000, I'd snap Plymouth's hand off.
And how anyone can criticise Bailey after the season we've had, as individual players and as a team, is beyond me.
Bailey was quality for us last year thats a given.
Racon will set the premier league alight IMO one day, the boy is turning into a top player his touch and vision is getting better and better his eye for a goal is coming on
Racon one of the hottest prospects at our club 2nd only to Jon Jo
I dont think Racon is very old either we should bust a bollok to keep him and shelvey
Am a big fan of Bailey and Racon. Personally I'd rather keep Bailey, as I still have my doubts about Racon. Racon is smooth and a talented player, but any fan has to say he drifts in and out of games at time.
Whilst Bailey was one of the few players I'd praise for last season, he is lacking when it comes to positional discipline. Of coures you can forgive that when he gambles offensively, but I'm talking about when we're in prolonged periods of defending or from set pieces. Again my argument goes for his mistakes here is that whatever mistakes happen he is one of only a few players attempting to rectify his mistakes and working bloody hard to tackle and correct them. If others weren't so weak willed and show some commitment he wouldn't have to be hastily trying to close down and tackle. In my oppinion his tackling is very good, his game awareness sometimes lacking. His debut at Watford was a relief for me, as it was the first time in ages that a Charlton player was winning 50-50 coming away with the ball and the opposing player being stunned (legally) by the hit. Whatever the merits of Semedo, when he wins ball opposing players always have a chance to quickly get it back off him, and he's one of our more competitive players. For Bailey's weaknesses I'd be gutted if he went.
Spring is a much more reliable all round footballer than both of them. People may disagree with that but they've never seen him in league one, or indeed in a good squad. He links play effortlessly and positionally is bang on 99 times of a 100. All three of them would hugely benefit from a pacey outlet which could be provided by a Mouta and Sam axis. But if Mouta is chopped we're back to desperately needing an offensively reliable and pacey midfielder. All three really need a strong character next to them like a Gavin Mahon. They all have their weaknesses, but Bailey is crucial this season.
Truth is if we have any real ambition to get promoted at the first attempt the we have to hang onto the quality players that are still under contract. Both Bailey and Racon are just that.
[cite]Posted By: Fish-Costa-Fortune[/cite]Give Bailey the captaincy and if Plymouth offer even £500,000, I'd snap Plymouth's hand off.
And how anyone can criticise Bailey after the season we've had, as individual players and as a team, is beyond me.
All I've said he's not as good all round as some people think he is.
Of course he's a very good player for us, but he has his weaknesses, some of which are covered up.
As for Racon we can't be selling players like him for only £500k. What SHG said, they are both clearly among our better players and still under contract. If we want promotion and have any ambition, we should be doing as much as we can to keep hold of them.
What he did or didn't do at Brighton isn't relevant, that was his first time playing regular first team football in this country. He's had several good games for us and scored a few goals.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Bailey was quality for us last year thats a given.
Racon will set the premier league alight IMO one day, the boy is turning into a top player his touch and vision is getting better and better his eye for a goal is coming on
Racon one of the hottest prospects at our club 2nd only to Jon Jo
I dont think Racon is very old either we should bust a bollok to keep him and shelvey
Really can't agree with that. He's good but 'set the Prem alight'? What do you mean by that? He'll play for someone like Villa/Spurs one day? Man Utd or Chelsea?
He's got a good touch yes, but I wouldn't say he has great vision. He's comfortable on the ball, likes to run with it, but he's not one known for spraying passes around or playing a killer pass, compared to say Andy Reid.
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]Spring is a much more reliable all round footballer than both of them. People may disagree with that but they've never seen him in league one, or indeed in a good squad. He links play effortlessly and positionally is bang on 99 times of a 100.
If he was that good, Sheff Utd would have used him a lot more often, and he wouldn't have been dropped for better players.
Yes he's an accurate passer, yes he isn't one to be caught out of position and reads the game well enough, but he's not a ball winner, offers little threat going forward, doesn't have pace or strength and apart from the odd goal won't score very often. It's fine not doing much wrong, but he doesn't offer much extra. Bailey, Shelvey, Racon, Sam and Zheng all do.
He has his qualities, and would look better with the right players around him, but he's not good enough to play regularly with the midfielders we have at the moment.
i feel that Racon will be a top player and could well go on to play for teams in and around the top 10 before getting a better move, the boy is way above most of what we have, but football is about opinions and i see him as top draw, will only get better and better
[quote][cite]Posted By: BBClaus[/cite]i can't wait till august is here and we can see who we've got and just get on with playing some football. September 1st will be even better.
We'll be alright. FACT. you heard it here first...[/quote]
Agreed and its what I have said for the last 3 close seasons
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]i feel that Racon will be a top player and could well go on to play for teams in and around the top 10 before getting a better move, the boy is way above most of what we have, but football is about opinions and i see him as top draw, will only get better and better
Comments
He scores goals, doesn't go missing, can play in several midfield positions, gets stuck in...
He reminds me a bit of a midfield version of Steve Brown - as a player Brown wasn't all that good, but the things that he brought to the team allowed him to prosper as a team-player.
Plymouth mid-table ?
They finished in 20th, just one place above the relegated three.
I think that says more about the players he's standing out next to, rather than great things about him.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting he crap, just maybe a bit overated by some.
Have to agree with that. It's mistakes like that which he won't get away with playing regularly in central midfield for a team that wants to get promoted.
and one of the very few teams we beat so they must be crap.
Japaneasy
Hence the 1st June deadline for people to renew. The theory being get people committed before the departures.
Nevertheless I still renewed.
We are entering a new Glikstenlike era. Get used to it.
How I hope you are wrong Mr Glover , the wilderness years.
Thanks Curbs for the good times.[/quote]
As for Racon - good player, but not the messiah some are making him out to be.
Not the Messiah, Offy ........ quite possibly not even a very naughty boy.
But at Third Division level, he's going to be a quality player and could prove to be a vital cog in a hopefully successful team.
I think that's recognised by the Charlton management anyone left at Sparrows Lane.
To be fair neither Racon or Bailey are the messiah. Both good players, very good for the level we'll be at next season.
Racon however, works hard and puts his foot in, but is also a technically gifted player and has a vastly superior football brain to Bailey. Given the choice of the two, I'd take Racon everytime because, imo, players with the blend of talents that Racon has are very hard to come by, especially for a team in League 1.
Maybe I'm getting a bit over excited by him, but I think he's the closest we've come to Scott Parker since wide-tie-boy was sold, albeit at a lower level.
Shelvey is the messiah!!!
From the words of the special one, 'The best 17 year old in the country'.
True except for Kish who was a real "marmite" player. Even his detractors like Chirpy won't criticise his effort yet still people didn't like him.
Part of that was related to us being in the Prem with much bigger expectations, I think there were fans there who thought we could get someone a lot better than Kishishev to do his job.
We did that alright, though not quite as expected, once Kish had lost his place.
And we've pushed on to yet another level since.
Bailey's a proven player in League 1 and the lower leagues with Southend and Barnet, where as Racon only had a brief spell with Brighton (and from what my Brighton supporter said, didn't exactly set the world on fire) Whether Racon could adapt to League 1 week in, week out is debatabe. League 1 is more physically demanding both in terms of games (don't forget the Football League trophy, 1st round of FA Cup) and Racon isn't someone I believe you can build a team around for a whole season, where as Bailey's drive and energy from midfield would surely be a key factor.
Give Bailey the captaincy and if Plymouth offer even £500,000, I'd snap Plymouth's hand off.
And how anyone can criticise Bailey after the season we've had, as individual players and as a team, is beyond me.
Racon will set the premier league alight IMO one day, the boy is turning into a top player his touch and vision is getting better and better his eye for a goal is coming on
Racon one of the hottest prospects at our club 2nd only to Jon Jo
I dont think Racon is very old either we should bust a bollok to keep him and shelvey
Whilst Bailey was one of the few players I'd praise for last season, he is lacking when it comes to positional discipline. Of coures you can forgive that when he gambles offensively, but I'm talking about when we're in prolonged periods of defending or from set pieces. Again my argument goes for his mistakes here is that whatever mistakes happen he is one of only a few players attempting to rectify his mistakes and working bloody hard to tackle and correct them. If others weren't so weak willed and show some commitment he wouldn't have to be hastily trying to close down and tackle. In my oppinion his tackling is very good, his game awareness sometimes lacking. His debut at Watford was a relief for me, as it was the first time in ages that a Charlton player was winning 50-50 coming away with the ball and the opposing player being stunned (legally) by the hit. Whatever the merits of Semedo, when he wins ball opposing players always have a chance to quickly get it back off him, and he's one of our more competitive players. For Bailey's weaknesses I'd be gutted if he went.
Spring is a much more reliable all round footballer than both of them. People may disagree with that but they've never seen him in league one, or indeed in a good squad. He links play effortlessly and positionally is bang on 99 times of a 100. All three of them would hugely benefit from a pacey outlet which could be provided by a Mouta and Sam axis. But if Mouta is chopped we're back to desperately needing an offensively reliable and pacey midfielder. All three really need a strong character next to them like a Gavin Mahon. They all have their weaknesses, but Bailey is crucial this season.
All I've said he's not as good all round as some people think he is.
Of course he's a very good player for us, but he has his weaknesses, some of which are covered up.
As for Racon we can't be selling players like him for only £500k. What SHG said, they are both clearly among our better players and still under contract. If we want promotion and have any ambition, we should be doing as much as we can to keep hold of them.
What he did or didn't do at Brighton isn't relevant, that was his first time playing regular first team football in this country. He's had several good games for us and scored a few goals.
Really can't agree with that. He's good but 'set the Prem alight'? What do you mean by that? He'll play for someone like Villa/Spurs one day? Man Utd or Chelsea?
He's got a good touch yes, but I wouldn't say he has great vision. He's comfortable on the ball, likes to run with it, but he's not one known for spraying passes around or playing a killer pass, compared to say Andy Reid.
If he was that good, Sheff Utd would have used him a lot more often, and he wouldn't have been dropped for better players.
Yes he's an accurate passer, yes he isn't one to be caught out of position and reads the game well enough, but he's not a ball winner, offers little threat going forward, doesn't have pace or strength and apart from the odd goal won't score very often. It's fine not doing much wrong, but he doesn't offer much extra. Bailey, Shelvey, Racon, Sam and Zheng all do.
He has his qualities, and would look better with the right players around him, but he's not good enough to play regularly with the midfielders we have at the moment.
We'll be alright. FACT. you heard it here first...
We'll be alright. FACT. you heard it here first...[/quote]
Agreed and its what I have said for the last 3 close seasons