But you added the "they didn't slip through our fingers" at the end AFTER you had originally posted. Will you be honest enough to admit that you changed it after your first post or are you going to hide behind "It was the clique being nasty to me"?
No wonder Curbs in unemployed. Imagine a manager not recognising that the kid in his local cafe was a decent footballer.
The very fact that you have to resort to citing Karacan just shows how few players have slipped through the net.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]But you added the "they didn't slip through our fingers" at the end AFTER you had originally posted. Will you be honest enough to admit that you changed it after your first post or are you going to hide behind "It was the clique being nasty to me"?
No wonder Curbs in unemployed. Imagine a manager not recognising that the kid in his local cafe was a decent footballer.
The very fact that you have to resort to citing Karacan just shows how few players have slipped through the net.
I changed it the second I re-read it because I knew, if I didn't, the clique would come looking for me. Little did I know quite how sophisticated their software is. I'm assuming that you posted whilst I changed it and not AFTER of course. Feel free to get one of the Administrators to check of I'm telling the truth or not.
You're absolutely right about Karacan though. How could Charlton possibly know about a talented boy, born in Lewisham and raised in Charlton when the likes of Man Utd have heard about him? He probably played his school soccer and club football in Manchester after all.
And I didn't start this thread last May to make a point about how many slipped through the net. Rather to inform those that hadn't heard of him including your goodself it seems. There's me thinking you knew everything!
Anyway, enough of this I've got to get up early in the morning to drive my seven year old to Manchester ;-)
I was at secondary school with Jem Karacan and do not remember him ever mentioning being seriously involved with Charlton, sure he would have done as we once went to a cafc game together (should be on lame to fame thread I know). In fact he was with Wimbledon for a while before they re located, then had various trials including at Manchester United but decided on Reading. Not sure the exact reason but looks like the right decision now.
Sure Charlton may have been aware of Jem, but just because they did not or indeed could not sign him up, hardly counts him as one that slipped through the net.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]But you added the "they didn't slip through our fingers" at the end AFTER you had originally posted. Will you be honest enough to admit that you changed it after your first post or are you going to hide behind "It was the clique being nasty to me"?
No wonder Curbs in unemployed. Imagine a manager not recognising that the kid in his local cafe was a decent footballer.
The very fact that you have to resort to citing Karacan just shows how few players have slipped through the net.
I changed it the second I re-read it because I knew, if I didn't, the clique would come looking for me. Little did I know quite how sophisticated their software is. I'm assuming that you posted whilst I changed it and not AFTER of course. Feel free to get one of the Administrators to check of I'm telling the truth or not.
You're absolutely right about Karacan though. How could Charlton possibly know about a talented boy, born in Lewisham and raised in Charlton when the likes of Man Utd have heard about him? He probably played his school soccer and club football in Manchester after all.
And I didn't start this thread last May to make a point about how many slipped through the net. Rather to inform those that hadn't heard of him including your goodself it seems. There's me thinking you knew everything!
Anyway, enough of this I've got to get up early in the morning to drive my seven year old to Manchester ;-)
You're just talking crap here. If Charlton were supposed to seriously look at every halfway decent kid in South East London and Kent we'd need about five hundred scouts working for us. If we had him on our books as a scholar for a couple of years, took a decent amount of time to evaluate him, decided he wasn't good enough, released him and he went on to play regularly in the premiership and be on the fringes of the England squad (e.g. Michael Turner), perhaps you'd have a case. As it is, the only 'link' he's got with our youth system appears to be that his old man owned a chippy near the ground, we never had him on any of our youth schemes because he seems to have been at Wimbledon since he was a foetus, and playing in the championship for an average side isn't exactly setting the world on fire. You're reaching - come up with a better example than that.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]But you added the "they didn't slip through our fingers" at the end AFTER you had originally posted. Will you be honest enough to admit that you changed it after your first post or are you going to hide behind "It was the clique being nasty to me"?
No wonder Curbs in unemployed. Imagine a manager not recognising that the kid in his local cafe was a decent footballer.
The very fact that you have to resort to citing Karacan just shows how few players have slipped through the net.
I changed it the second I re-read it because I knew, if I didn't, the clique would come looking for me. Little did I know quite how sophisticated their software is. I'm assuming that you posted whilst I changed it and not AFTER of course. Feel free to get one of the Administrators to check of I'm telling the truth or not.
You're absolutely right about Karacan though. How could Charlton possibly know about a talented boy, born in Lewisham and raised in Charlton when the likes of Man Utd have heard about him? He probably played his school soccer and club football in Manchester after all.
And I didn't start this thread last May to make a point about how many slipped through the net. Rather to inform those that hadn't heard of him including your goodself it seems. There's me thinking you knew everything!
Anyway, enough of this I've got to get up early in the morning to drive my seven year old to Manchester ;-)
You're just talking crap here. If Charlton were supposed to seriously look at every halfway decent kid in South East London and Kent we'd need about five hundred scouts working for us. If we had him on our books as a scholar for a couple of years, took a decent amount of time to evaluate him, decided he wasn't good enough, released him and he went on to play regularly in the premiership and be on the fringes of the England squad (e.g. Michael Turner), perhaps you'd have a case. As it is, the only 'link' he's got with our youth system appears to be that his old man owned a chippy near the ground, we never had him on any of our youth schemes because he seems to have been at Wimbledon since he was a foetus, and playing in the championship for an average side isn't exactly setting the world on fire. You're reaching - come up with a better example than that.
How about George Boyd then? Which is where we started and was the only player I mentioned last May. And at no time was I trying to make an issue about him being one of many that had slipped through the net.
I dare say, though, there will be one or two in years to come who did the "Charlton Challenge" and went on to better things. C'est la vie. I for one will still carry on paying my Valley Gold subs.
[cite]Posted By: cafc_se7[/cite]Oggy you say Bowyer is the forgotten man of Mcdonalds?I thought that was Parker?
Parker was the McDonalds keepy uppy advert,Bowyer was the McDonalds "No chips, ok watch me smash this place up" - "Catch this chair you not quite anglo saxon person you"
Yep - Boyd is one you can have. I'm sure there were mitigating factors in letting him go (like there were with Turner) - probably considered too lightweight and/or not quick enough.
So - Turner and Boyd. Anyone else? Certainly not any of the ten you named above (the possible exception of Turner aside), and nobody else has come up with any others. I think that makes our youth setup pretty bloody good at making the best out of the limited number of youngsters we have after Chelski, Wet Spam, Arsehole and all the other 'bigger' clubs get their pick.
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]Yep - Boyd is one you can have. I'm sure there were mitigating factors in letting him go (like there were with Turner) - probably considered too lightweight and/or not quick enough.
So - Turner and Boyd. Anyone else? Certainly not any of the ten you named above (the possible exception of Turner aside), and nobody else has come up with any others. I think that makes our youth setup pretty bloody good at making the best out of the limited number of youngsters we have after Chelski, Wet Spam, Arsehole and all the other 'bigger' clubs get their pick.
Danny Haynes is another. Two or three in around 10 years isn't that bad. Probably had over 100 u18s/u19s before it chaned plus all the u16s and younger we let go before that age.
I think, somewhere along the line, the criteria has got a bit mixed up here. We're not talking players who went on to have careers as journeymen, or played regularly for clubs that were no better than us. When we released Kemi Izzet and Danny Haynes, they didn't exactly set the world alight. This is players who are an undoubted success, and turned out considerably better than our youth setup believed they would (e.g. Turner). I'm not even sure George Boyd qualifies here - and Danny haynes & Kemi Izzet certainly don't.
Agree with Leroy. For me, the ONLY one out of all those listed who we should've at least tried out in a couple of League Cup/FA Cup games was Michael Turner. And even if he'd played well it was unlikely he'd have ousted Rufus et al.
Apart from that, none of the others were ready for first team football at the time and they may not have gone on to be the players they are now had they been stuck in our reserves for several years.
I know it seems like I'm just being deliberately argumentative and flogging a dead horse here, but I'm not - there's a serious point at stake. In the past few years, many aspects of how our club has been run have taken a bit of a battering. Some of them are quite valid arguments (Curbishley not being given money that Dowie was, the whole fiasco with Dowie\Murray\Jordan, Pardew being a c*** etc.)
However, there seem to be quite a few people who are of the opinion that either our youth setup is shit in general, or that it's so badly run that we failed to spot numerous gems who later went on to star for premiership clubs. This seems to be especially the case against some of the younger posters on here. Nothing could be further from the truth. As has been demonstrated, we've missed ONE player from our youth team in the past fifteen years who has gone on to have a decent premiership career. ONE - and even he isn't exactly Lionel Messi.
What this thread serves to do, hopefully, is educate our younger fans - we actually have a pretty bloody good youth setup, and have brought numerous players through who later went on to either star or make decent careers for us or other teams. We very, very rarely let any players 'slip through our fingers'.
The original post on this thread was merely remarking on the success of one of our ex academy players. It developed into a discussion about the number of ex academy players still in the game and playing at a higher level then Charlton at the moment. All of which is a testament to the quality and success of our academy over recent years.
One post inferred a mild criticism of coaching and managerial staff. Some (dare I say the hyper sensitive rose tinted clique) have then over reacted and inferred that the thread was an unwarranted attack on previous and existing coaching staff that needs to be rebutted line by line!
[cite]Posted By: Red_in_SE8[/cite]The original post on this thread was merely remarking on the success of one of our ex academy players. It developed into a discussion about the number of ex academy players still in the game and playing at a higher level then Charlton at the moment. All of which is a testament to the quality and success of our academy over recent years.
One post inferred a mild criticism of coaching and managerial staff. Some (dare I say the hyper sensitive rose tinted clique) have then over reacted and inferred that the thread was an unwarranted attack on previous and existing coaching staff that needs to be rebutted line by line!
[cite]Posted By: falconwood_1[/cite]Who was the youth team manager who let him go?
[cite]Posted By: coltsgoalie[/cite]another charlton youth player who has slipped through our fingers and has done really well
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]In answer to your question, from the top of my head, playing at a higher level is the following X1:
Randolph
Campbell-Rice
Sam
Turner
Shelvey
Wright
Defoe
Lisbie
Konchesky
Parker
Shittu (just released by Bolton - played in World Cup and doubt if he'll end up in League 1)
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]I thought I'd qualified it by saying "most didn't slip through our fingers though". Unfortuantely, unless it's one of their own posting the clique tend to either ignore or refuse to read what has been said.
My response was to the question as to who is playing at a higher level because the intimation was that George Boyd isn't worth mentioning because he's only playing at this level.
George Boyd would have walked into our team in the Championship let alone now: a winger who averages almost 1 goal every 3 games and who has set up countless goals for the likes of McLean and Mackail-Smith. We haven't had a forward capable of doing that in the last few years let alone a wide man and we also spent four times what he cost from Stevenage for McLown.
There aren't many who have slipped through the net but he definitely is one. As is Jem Karacan. But hey why let our blind allegiances get in the way of the facts when it's so much easier to slag off every single player (just to be clear I'm not talking about Boys here) who dares to better himself by leaving us. They're not all Defoes.
Hardly 'one post', is it - and I'm not one of the 'clique', so don't see what your point is? In addition, there have been other threads on here criticising the youth setup. There's no need for it, and whoever does it needs pulling on it when they do. Otherwise, bellends like Nick Gray will be over here like a shot, using it as another excuse to stick the knife into the club.
OK, 2 posts. The one by Colstgoalie, and the one I missed by Falconwood. The first Addick Addict post you quote was merely listing players off the top of his head who are currently playing at a higher level. I did not read any criticism of Charlton's coaching staff into that post. The second Addick Addict post was made after the thread was deemed to be an attack on previous and existing coaching staff.
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]I know it seems like I'm just being deliberately argumentative and flogging a dead horse here, but I'm not - there's a serious point at stake. In the past few years, many aspects of how our club has been run have taken a bit of a battering. Some of them are quite valid arguments (Curbishley not being given money that Dowie was, the whole fiasco with Dowie\Murray\Jordan, Pardew being a c*** etc.)
I wouldn't say it's argumentative, I've made that point myself at least a few times as have others.
I agree the club have made very few, if any, big mistakes when it comes to letting youth players go. Even then they're all debatable if they really were mistakes at the time.
Congrats to George on scoring his 50th goal in Pro football today, his 5th of the season plus yet another assist (fouled for the penalty). Not bad for a winger.
Wouldn't get in our team of free scoring, creative players though as evidenced by our four goals in four home games this season ;-)
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Congrats to George on scoring his 50th goal in Pro football today, his 5th of the season plus yet another assist (fouled for the penalty). Not bad for a winger.
Wouldn't get in our team of free scoring, creative players though as evidenced by our four goals in four home games this season ;-)
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]Yeah should never have let him go 9/10 years ago. We should have known we'd need him in League One all those years later...
Just celebrating the fact that George is a decent player but also accepting what has been said already by others that a winger who scores one in three and creates even more wouldn't be good enough to fit into our side now or in the past.
And in any case 9/10 years ago we had Lloyd Sam who proved himself much the better prospect by going on to net 6 League goals in 7 years for us. That is 4 less than Boyd got in the Championship alone last season for a side that got relegated!
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]Yeah should never have let him go 9/10 years ago. We should have known we'd need him in League One all those years later...
Just celebrating the fact that George is a decent player but also accepting what has been said already by others that a winger who scores one in three and creates even more wouldn't be good enough to fit into our side now or in the past.
And in any case 9/10 years ago we had Lloyd Sam who proved himself much the better prospect by going on to net 6 League goals in 7 years for us. That is 4 less than Boyd got in the Championship alone last season for a side that got relegated!
Who said he wasn't good enough for us? He obviously is now.
Sam's not even age as Boyd, so it wouldn't have been a choice between the two of them.
We made a mistake letting one player go 10 years ago. It happens. Fortunately it's one of the very few real mistake and even then, he probably wouldn't have broken through in the Prem, much like Campbell-Ryce and Sam both couldn't.
We also don't know why we let him go. There might have been a good reason at the time that had nothing to do with his ability. If not it's still one of very few mistakes the club have made since. Out of what would be over 100 of young players I think we can forgive 1 or 2 mistakes in 9/10 years.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]mate i have heard his name mentioned loads of times on sky if he was any good he wouldnt be playing where he is
you have to get over this
Give him time. He's still only 24. Michael Turner was almost 26 when Sunderland paid the £10 million plus for him.
just a question, like. Since you seem to have generally f***-all good to say about us, and most threads you start appear to be about players who've left the club
just a question, like. Since you seem to have generally f***-all good to say about us, and most threads you start appear to be about players who've left the club
just a question, like. Since you seem to have generally f***-all good to say about us, and most threads you start appear to be about players who've left the club
More than you'll ever know Leroy. And you?
Oh - so you're one of those "I supported us when we were playing to a 9/10ths empty Valley, my Grandad bought Johnny Summers a pie and chips once, my great great grandad helped paint the lines round the pitch in Mountsfield Park etc etc" blokes then.
Comments
No wonder Curbs in unemployed. Imagine a manager not recognising that the kid in his local cafe was a decent footballer.
The very fact that you have to resort to citing Karacan just shows how few players have slipped through the net.
I changed it the second I re-read it because I knew, if I didn't, the clique would come looking for me. Little did I know quite how sophisticated their software is. I'm assuming that you posted whilst I changed it and not AFTER of course. Feel free to get one of the Administrators to check of I'm telling the truth or not.
You're absolutely right about Karacan though. How could Charlton possibly know about a talented boy, born in Lewisham and raised in Charlton when the likes of Man Utd have heard about him? He probably played his school soccer and club football in Manchester after all.
And I didn't start this thread last May to make a point about how many slipped through the net. Rather to inform those that hadn't heard of him including your goodself it seems. There's me thinking you knew everything!
Anyway, enough of this I've got to get up early in the morning to drive my seven year old to Manchester ;-)
Sure Charlton may have been aware of Jem, but just because they did not or indeed could not sign him up, hardly counts him as one that slipped through the net.
How about George Boyd then? Which is where we started and was the only player I mentioned last May. And at no time was I trying to make an issue about him being one of many that had slipped through the net.
I dare say, though, there will be one or two in years to come who did the "Charlton Challenge" and went on to better things. C'est la vie. I for one will still carry on paying my Valley Gold subs.
Parker was the McDonalds keepy uppy advert,Bowyer was the McDonalds "No chips, ok watch me smash this place up" - "Catch this chair you not quite anglo saxon person you"
So - Turner and Boyd. Anyone else? Certainly not any of the ten you named above (the possible exception of Turner aside), and nobody else has come up with any others. I think that makes our youth setup pretty bloody good at making the best out of the limited number of youngsters we have after Chelski, Wet Spam, Arsehole and all the other 'bigger' clubs get their pick.
There is also Kemi Izzet...
Apart from that, none of the others were ready for first team football at the time and they may not have gone on to be the players they are now had they been stuck in our reserves for several years.
However, there seem to be quite a few people who are of the opinion that either our youth setup is shit in general, or that it's so badly run that we failed to spot numerous gems who later went on to star for premiership clubs. This seems to be especially the case against some of the younger posters on here. Nothing could be further from the truth. As has been demonstrated, we've missed ONE player from our youth team in the past fifteen years who has gone on to have a decent premiership career. ONE - and even he isn't exactly Lionel Messi.
What this thread serves to do, hopefully, is educate our younger fans - we actually have a pretty bloody good youth setup, and have brought numerous players through who later went on to either star or make decent careers for us or other teams. We very, very rarely let any players 'slip through our fingers'.
One post inferred a mild criticism of coaching and managerial staff. Some (dare I say the hyper sensitive rose tinted clique) have then over reacted and inferred that the thread was an unwarranted attack on previous and existing coaching staff that needs to be rebutted line by line!
Hardly 'one post', is it - and I'm not one of the 'clique', so don't see what your point is? In addition, there have been other threads on here criticising the youth setup. There's no need for it, and whoever does it needs pulling on it when they do. Otherwise, bellends like Nick Gray will be over here like a shot, using it as another excuse to stick the knife into the club.
I agree the club have made very few, if any, big mistakes when it comes to letting youth players go. Even then they're all debatable if they really were mistakes at the time.
Wouldn't get in our team of free scoring, creative players though as evidenced by our four goals in four home games this season ;-)
yawn
Just celebrating the fact that George is a decent player but also accepting what has been said already by others that a winger who scores one in three and creates even more wouldn't be good enough to fit into our side now or in the past.
And in any case 9/10 years ago we had Lloyd Sam who proved himself much the better prospect by going on to net 6 League goals in 7 years for us. That is 4 less than Boyd got in the Championship alone last season for a side that got relegated!
Who said he wasn't good enough for us? He obviously is now.
Sam's not even age as Boyd, so it wouldn't have been a choice between the two of them.
We made a mistake letting one player go 10 years ago. It happens. Fortunately it's one of the very few real mistake and even then, he probably wouldn't have broken through in the Prem, much like Campbell-Ryce and Sam both couldn't.
We also don't know why we let him go. There might have been a good reason at the time that had nothing to do with his ability. If not it's still one of very few mistakes the club have made since. Out of what would be over 100 of young players I think we can forgive 1 or 2 mistakes in 9/10 years.
you can not compare players that we released 1 years ago when we in the prem
Have you not heard of the "White Pele"?
you have to get over this
Give him time. He's still only 24. Michael Turner was almost 26 when Sunderland paid the £10 million plus for him.
Do you even support Charlton?
just a question, like. Since you seem to have generally f***-all good to say about us, and most threads you start appear to be about players who've left the club
More than you'll ever know Leroy. And you?
FWIW, yes, I do.