Yassin

SOTF

Hi Fellow Charlton Fans,

Long time reader, first time contributor...

I am not sure if I am the only one but I am continually getting fed up with Yassin Moutakil being overlooked by Loanees.
Murty I could stomach, as he generally gave his all and had the ability to organise the defence, but Butterfield? It's unbeliveable.

Anyway, I started another thread with the following link, as a way to show that we fans do value Yassin, and to show the club what some of us think about the standard of the loanees coming in to play in front of him.

http://fansaward.givemefootball.com/vote-c1bf6535-3795-4e3a-906d-fac477c3207f

It would be great if we could all contribute to voting Yassin the player of the month for March

The idea of this I suppose is so that in a non-confrontational way our point of view is put across.

I also read this morning that PSG were looking to make a bid.

Henry Irving

poor defender, even worse attitude. Hope PSG buy him.

Rather we played Solly

eastbourne_addick

good potential but deserevs better than us in france

Oggy Red

So much potential, but for whatever reason, it hasn't worked out.

Maybe it was Pardew/Parkinson? Maybe the English game? Maybe the player's attitude?

But probably, most of all because he couldn't defend.

Athletico Charlton

[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]poor defender, even worse attitude. Hope PSG buy him.

Rather we played Solly[/quote]


I completely agree, HOWEVER, if we are going to keep him he needs to play, if we are not going to keep him, he needs to play so that we get some sort of price for him / he puts himself in the shop window...the Board / Manager need to do what is best for the club which 100% is not playing Buttercup each game.

ShootersHillGuru

Tragic waste if he goes. A modern full back with pace. Charlton not good or intelligent enough to utilise him. Him at right back with Sam in front would terrorise division one teams. Tragic !

Scoham

How much do we really know about his attitude? After five loanee right backs in two seasons (plus various others such as Semedo being used there), any player would be frustrated. Does sound like he doesn't have the best attitude, but I'm sure there's far worse, in fact we know we've had far worse.

His style (as SHG said, a modern full back) doesn't suit a team struggling in the Championship. He needs to be in a good team, working hard together to help each other, and most importantly, an attacking team playing good football. Things could have worked out so differently for him if we were that team, or he went to a team like that instead of us.

If we can get a decent fee we'll let him go. I'd love to see him get a proper run (which he has never had) and become one of the first names on the team sheet, but it's probably not going to happen.

He takes pressure off the team by winning throw ins, corners and contributing going forward in ways other full backs can't.

Agree about Butterfield though, now that we're down there's no reason for us to keep him (unless we're looking to sign him?).

Least we have Solly coming through, after Shelvey (if he's here) he's the next player for me that could make a big impact next season.

LargeAddick

I think that Yassin has been harshly treated and if he now has a bad attitude I think that 'we' have initiated that. The right backs we have brought in this season (Cranie,Murty,Butternut) has not been significantly better than Yassin and if we had persevered we would have a very good player on our hands. He came to us as captain of the French U21''s and we were told on signing that he had turned down Barcelona among others to do so. Constantly making him the scapegoat is hardly likely to go down well. As with Josh Wright he was part of the team that won our first game in 18 at Narwich in the Cup and yet was dropped next game for a loanee. That happens two/three times and it will affect a youngsters attitude, esp I'd imagine a young foreign one. Josh Wright was promised after the same game that he would start the next round match at Sheff Utd and yet 24 hrs before that game was told he wouldn't. Is this how you generate respect from your players, I don't think so. And before someone says that Yassin can't defend then yeah maybe it needs working on but he'll only learn from playing. In the meantime Cranie was crap, Butternut not a lot better and Murty, who most thought did well, cost us a goal at Swansea and possibly three points an error that, had it been Yassin, he would have been slaughtered for. IMO if he goes it will be us that will lose out in the long run.

SaySomething

I still don't get why pardew buys him to be our new first choice right back to replace luke young, saying back then that yassin 'offered something different' , then he replaces him mainly with loanees. I personally don't rate him because of his lack of defensive ability, but agree it must be hard for a young lad to show great attitude when you've been brought to this country thinking you're going to be competing for the right back slot and end up having the position constantly filled by loan players over two seasons.

mstoneaddick

Some our best football last season was around the turn of the year when he was playing and preventing the opposing left back from coming forward because of his pace. His short comings were his final ball that was improving with every game, and some naive defending that more often than not his pace of recovery put right. I think we have missed a trick here by playing average loan players ahead of him who were generally afraid to go across the halfway line.

Dazzler21

[cite]Posted By: SaySomething[/cite]I still don't get why pardew buys him to be our new first choice right back to replace luke young, saying back then that yassin 'offered something different' , then he replaces him mainly with loanees. I personally don't rate him because of his lack of defensive ability, but agree it must be hard for a young lad to show great attitude when you've been brought to this country thinking you're going to be competing for the right back slot and end up having the position constantly filled by loan players over two seasons.

Agree completely - How can you improvve unless you are playing real games???

supaclive

Is his defending really worse than Butterballs???

stilladdicted

I've got a great deal of sympathy for Moo2. Did he arrive stinky in which case I question why he was signed, or did he acquire stinkiness, in which case I question the way he was treated? I thought he was pacey, wholehearted, intelligent and just needed games, support, help and encouragement to improve. Easy now just to slag him off saying his attitude stinks, easy to avoid the questions that need to be asked, easy to shift the blame.

charlton_carl

I believe that we as a club have given Yassin this so called attitiude problem that he now has. As previous posts have said he has been overlooked by 2 managers playing some very poor full backs in front of him.

I spoke to Yassin at Burnley last season and he was happy to chat and said that he hoped he would be in the first team again soon and that he liked playing for the club, there was no sign of an attitude problem there.

A year down the line he seems to have one and to be honest i think i would as well

Henry Irving

funny that with some players it is that they personally are lazy, rubbish, not fit to wear the shirt, don't care, don't show enough passion etc etc but with others who have a poor attitude and won't accept any responsibility for their own poor performances it's completely someone else's fault, never theirs.

supaclive

[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]funny that with some players it is that they personally are lazy, rubbish, not fit to wear the shirt, don't care, don't show enough passion etc etc but with others who have a poor attitude and won't accept any responsibility for their own poor performances it's completely someone else's fault, never theirs.[/quote]

I don't think anyone is saying that Henry - but is he REALLY worse than Butterballs???

He's one of our own and either he or Solly will be playing right back next year - so if it's Solly, then let's get Solly in now. But don't play Butterballs in front of him ...

Elthamaddick

[quote][cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]I think that Yassin has been harshly treated and if he now has a bad attitude I think that 'we' have initiated that. The right backs we have brought in this season (Cranie,Murty,Butternut) has not been significantly better than Yassin and if we had persevered we would have a very good player on our hands. He came to us as captain of the French U21''s and we were told on signing that he had turned down Barcelona among others to do so. Constantly making him the scapegoat is hardly likely to go down well. As with Josh Wright he was part of the team that won our first game in 18 at Narwich in the Cup and yet was dropped next game for a loanee. That happens two/three times and it will affect a youngsters attitude, esp I'd imagine a young foreign one. Josh Wright was promised after the same game that he would start the next round match at Sheff Utd and yet 24 hrs before that game was told he wouldn't. Is this how you generate respect from your players, I don't think so. And before someone says that Yassin can't defend then yeah maybe it needs working on but he'll only learn from playing. In the meantime Cranie was crap, Butternut not a lot better and Murty, who most thought did well, cost us a goal at Swansea and possibly three points an error that, had it been Yassin, he would have been slaughtered for. IMO if he goes it will be us that will lose out in the long run.[/quote]

spot on Large

charlton_carl

how do you know he has a poor attitude because of what people said after the bristol city game and because of the punch up he was meant to of had??

Is he worse than the right back we have currently , No.

supaclive

.

BigRedEvil

The management have treated Yassin shockingly. Destroyed his confidence by playing equally as hopeless loan players in front of him Cranie/Butterfield/Halford.

stilladdicted

[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]funny that with some players it is that they personally are lazy, rubbish, not fit to wear the shirt, don't care, don't show enough passion etc etc but with others who have a poor attitude and won't accept any responsibility for their own poor performances it's completely someone else's fault, never theirs.

I repeat, did he arrive stinky or did he acquire stinkiness whilst with us? He is young, Muslim and in a foreign country. That needed some careful handling and he appears not to have got it. Is it not allowed to ask why?

LargeAddick

[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]

[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]funny that with some players it is that they personally are lazy, rubbish, not fit to wear the shirt, don't care, don't show enough passion etc etc but with others who have a poor attitude and won't accept any responsibility for their own poor performances it's completely someone else's fault, never theirs.

I repeat, did he arrive stinky or did he acquire stinkiness whilst with us? He is young, Muslim and in a foreign country. That needed some careful handling and he appears not to have got it. Is it not allowed to ask why?

I believe he has been 'stinkified' by us and handled badly by the management. Give him a final chance and play him the rest of the season, save on Butternuts wages, and hopefully we'll have a player for next season.

AFKABartram

Interesting debate.

None of us know the real truth, but I think stilladdicted is probably closest in suggesting this has probably been as much a cultural problem than a footballing or attitude one.

I can imagine Moots to be a bit of a loner, and quite alienated from the majority of the management and squad. I have heard reports of an attitude problem, but equally i think he has great potential as a player.

The secret to all good management is to get the best out of the sum of your parts. Have Pards / Parky done that ? Not on the face of it, as we have continually spent money bringing in other players when we already have one with more potential.

The flip argument is that they have because they have cut out an uncaring, unteamlike individual that has a negative effect on others in the squad, and by proxy weakens the sum of the parts, but if that was the case then he should have been released.

LargeAddick

[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]I can imagine Moots to be a bit of a loner, and quite alienated from the majority of the management and squad. I have heard reports of an attitude problem, but equally i think he has great potential as a player.

If you bring in a young player from abroad you have to ensure that you integrate them into the squad socially as well. You have to ensure that he isn't left alone to fend for himself and avoid the situation where after training he is off on his own, moaping around in a country that is alien to him. Encourage some of the other younger players to take him under their wing . If necessary find other French Muslim youngsters he can associate with so he doesn't feel alienated. If he does become alienated off the pitch and then you treat him like shit on it then no wonder he has an attitude problem. Its time for Parky to give him another chance and play him for the remainder of the season so we can see what he can do. He'd be a revelation in League 1 but I feel we have already burnt our bridges. I feel this is another reason to out Parky now if we can say get Ince or A N Other in. If a new manager comes in after the season ends it may be too late to rescue the Moots situation but come in now he will be able to fully assess him and make a decision based on what he sees rather than what he hears.

kinveachyaddick

Anyone who says he can't defend is just showing their ignorance of football.

With his pace and skill he's the epitome of the modern day full-back.

All he needs is some proper coaching and a decent centre-half alongside him to show him what to do and help him out.

Believe me, Boswingwa would look pretty ropey if he had to play in our side this season and would have had the clowns out on here claiming he 'can't defend'

oohaahmortimer

another overrated player, like most that have arrived here in recent times, all the clowns try and make out (cos they've signed for us) that they are decent when the reality is we are where we are cos we've signed so much dross FACT

Oggy Red

[cite]Posted By: kinveachyaddick[/cite]Anyone who says he can't defend is just showing their ignorance of football.

With his pace and skill he's the epitome of the modern day full-back.

All he needs is some proper coaching and a decent centre-half alongside him to show him what to do and help him out.

Believe me, Boswingwa would look pretty ropey if he had to play in our side this season and would have had the clowns out on here claiming he 'can't defend'

As one of your 'clowns' mate, I'd like to say that in my opinion, defenders need to consistantly be able to defend.
It's primarily why they are in the team.


To defend takes positional awareness, concentration and good communication.
Unfortunately, these appear to be Moo2's weaknesses.

It's great to see Moo2 rampaging up the line, it's an important outlet for a defence under pressure, and can quickly turn defence into attack. But first and foremost he has to defend.


Otherwise we might as well play Lloyd Sam at full back.

kinveachyaddick

When you say Moo2 can't defend - what exactly do you mean?

Makes mistakes? errors of judgement? can't tackle? poor header of the ball?

He clearly doesn't lack pace so can't say that.

In which case can you explain to me how Youga and Hudson get picked week-in, week out?

stop_shouting

I'd like to know how certain people on here know of his terrible attitude. I've certainly not seen it whilst he's been playing. In fact the opposite having witnessed his celebrations at the Norwich cup game. Some good points regarding the cultural problems we assume he's encountered. I think the club has to put their hands up & admit they've dealt with his situation badly. Consistently bringing in loanees to replace him has surely had a hugely demoralising effect on him.

ShootersHillGuru

You just know that he will leave at the end of the season and our right back is going to be Butterfield or some equally cheap end of the line replacement. Brilliant Charlton just brilliant. Yassin will go on to bigger and better things no doubt in my mind.

Oggy Red

[cite]Posted By: kinveachyaddick[/cite]When you say Moo2 can't defend - what exactly do you mean?

Makes mistakes? errors of judgement? can't tackle? poor header of the ball?

He clearly doesn't lack pace so can't say that.

In which case can you explain to me how Youga and Hudson get picked week-in, week out?

Every player will occasionally make a mistake.
Moo2's tackling can be inconsistant and he doesn't appear strong in the air.
But that's only part of the story.

[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]

To defend takes positional awareness, concentration and good communication.
Unfortunately, these appear to be Moo2's weaknesses.

IMO, what I've said above are the reasons why Moo2 hasn't established himself in the team.

Also IMO, I don't feel Moo2's been handled well by management - he has many attributes that could and should have been harnessed to the team. But if he's not getting the basics of his game right, and perhaps difficult for other players to work with during a match, then he's not going to get picked regularly.