[cite]Posted By: Plaaayer[/cite]What he's actually saying is that men are more mature than women and that girls smell and they all have lurgies!
spot on bredrin
anyways back on subject - Jonjo will stay I bloody hope, I will be gutted if he does jump ship and really shaft us (cos you no west ham won the world cup so obviously they would only pay a packet of walkers as compo, just because theyve bout so much to the british game we all owe them)
Jonjo's youth contact is up on his birthday the 27th Feb if he so wishes he can sign for another club then and then we will get some compensation from a tribunal. If on his birthday he signs a pro contact with us then normal player transfer rules apply.
will be a test of his loyality, sign the deal and if we go down sell him for a few million, leave now and only get a few hundred grand and we could have another defoe on our hands, would we boo him if he left on the cheap now?
damn right we would there nothing more i like doing than going down the valley and having a gold old boo at everyone BBBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
As long as Jonjo doesn’t leave in the same manner as Defoe i.e. telling us he will sign and then doesn’t show at our press conference and then calls to say he's leaving as he's been offered a house.
If Jonjo comes out and says I'm going as I wish to further my career right or wrong I would respect that I'd only treat him like Defoe if he acted like him told us he'd stay then stitch us up.
[cite]Posted By: mad83[/cite]Jonjo's youth contact is up on his birthday the 27th Feb if he so wishes he can sign for another club then and then we will get some compensation from a tribunal. If on his birthday he signs a pro contact with us then normal player transfer rules apply.
does he have to do one or the other on the 27th ? Can he just sit it out until the end of the season and decide then ?
If he doesn't sign a contact he won't get paid, there may also be a cut of point if he is un-contracted for a time with regards to us getting any compensation if he goes.
[cite]Posted By: mad83[/cite]If he doesn't sign a contact he won't get paid, there may also be a cut of point if he is un-contracted for a time with regards to us getting any compensation if he goes.
If he doesn't get his schoolboy wages for a couple of weeks while he sorts out a deal with a prem club, he'll probably not be too worried about it. I don't think there's any formal cut-off. I guess if a player were to jack the game in on his 17th birthday and comeback on this 25th he could argue his original club weren't due anything, but can't see it as an issue otherwise. I'd say the bigger problem will be getting stiffed by the tribunal.
Bostock's ruling has really set the benchmark in what we can expect. As long as we can agree a deal with a Club to match that ruling I reckon the Club would agree with that as you always run the risk of a different tribunal awarding you less, although of course they could award you more, but seeing as Jonjo and Bostock are so similar I wouldn't expect it to be wildly different. This all assuming that Jonjo wants to go.
Well we knew there would be a lot of rumour and scare-moungering going on surrounding this, so none of us should be surprised.
I'm sure the decision has already been made by JonJo, or will be made within the next few days.
He has a straightforward decision to make in my opinion. Does he see the long-term benefit to his game as playing regular games at this stage of his 'career' as more beneficial than spending the next couple of years training with better standard players, but getting lesser opportunities of first team football.
It has been awkward and frustrating this season because supporters and i'm sure himself expected him to feature more than he has. But he is still 16, his bones and muscles are still developing, and i'm pretty sure long-term it may have had an impact on his longevity in the game if he had been playing physically demanding Championship football every game (you only have to see how Dickson struggled near the end on Sat to see the difference in fitness required to play reserves and Championship football). I believe that Charlton have put his own development ahead of their own needs at times this season, and i hope JJ can appreciated that.
Next season will be a very different story, he will be 17 / 18 and if JJ stayed he would realistically expect to be one of the first names on the teamsheet whatever division we are in. He should easily be looking at getting 40 games under his belt next season, if he stayed injury free.
That to me, in an appreciative environment where there will not be as much pressure on him as there would be in a premier league set up, would benefit his game a lot more than reserve team football. I really wonder how much John Bostock appreciates his move to Spurs as he has featured in zero games this season.
I hope he makes the right decision. We as a club appear to have looked after him well, and i hope he recognises that, and the fact that he has a better chance of carving out a good reputation for himself playing regularly here next season, than clogging up a Wham / Spurs etc reserve team. If he is good enough, they will soon be back with much improved offers.
If he is solely interested in short-term cash though, then forget about him staying. I'm not sure he is though.
does he have to do one or the other on the 27th ? Can he just sit it out until the end of the season and decide then ?
If he doesn't sign a contact he won't get paid, there may also be a cut of point if he is un-contracted for a time with regards to us getting any compensation if he goes.
He'll have a contract like every other youth player won't he? Two years as an u18 on a youth contract, though he can turn pro before that once he's 17.
He'd be a silly boy not to sign a pro contract on his birthday because if (God forbid) he was to pick up a serious injury while out of contract he could find himself in no mans land.
You wouldn't see the Prem clubs that are sniffing around for dust.
If he has a savvy agent I would have thought it would be common sense to sign a 3 year contract, get first team football under your belt at a place you will be well liked for 1-2 years and then move on (if we are not back in the promised land of the Prem by then of course). The contract could even have a buy out clause in it to stop price being an issue in future. Becomes a win-win for everyone then.
The thing is, playing devil's advocate, that staying put isn't always the best thing to do, financially or from a playing perspective. It's a short career and all that - if he doesn't continue to develop then he will kick himself for not cashing in now. He might also reflect that sometimes managers don't play their best team. We've no idea who'll be playing next year, but at the moment we've got about 8 decent central midfielders for two places (or 4 if Parky is still the manager)
I believe his agent is his father, so he should at least be looking for the best long term for the boy, but who knows how much experience the bloke has of these things, or how well he'd be able to judge which way is best..
As I said before I reckon he'll go, it's not like we're going to wave a load of cash in front of him and clubs will know they can get him at a snip.
imo i think he'll be off.
if it is west ham, he can develop further over the next couple of years around international players and a managment set up that has been involved with some international stars.
west ham will look at it if he does develop quickly and ends up being as mature as fabregas was at 17 then they will benefit hugely. if they decide that he needs 'toughening up' then they can send him on loan as and when and to whom they see fit. (like we did with parker).
i honestly think playing 40 games for us, whatever division we are in next year, won't be of long term benefit to him.
well then if supporters of our club don't think it will be of benefit to young players if they are any good to turn professional with us after we've spent 5-10 years developing them, we might as well close down all forms of youth development.
If we were still in Champs, then he might stay. Unfortunately I can't see Div 3 appealing much to him, though...and realistically that is still where we are heading (despite our best attempts at wishful thinking - sorry.)
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]well then if supporters of our club don't think it will be of benefit to young players if they are any good to turn professional with us after we've spent 5-10 years developing them, we might as well close down all forms of youth development.
here here - pointless lets shut it down and spend our valley gold money on fixing the holes in the roof
Why worry about crossing a bridge we haven't reached yet.
Everything I have heard about the young man is that he is mentally tough and able to cope with being the player he is so not sure why he is like a 12 year old.
As I said my gut feeling is that he will sign for us. How long he stays after that will depend on how good he is and how quickly he shows that talent on a regular basis, if at all.
If Chris Dickson turns out to be a great goal scorer in the CCC that some predict he will have been a steal from Dulwich at £50k. We were happy to take advantage of our vastly better finances and prospects to lure Chris here and other clubs will try to do the same with Jon Jo. Tis the way of the world and always has been. All that changes is that Charlton move up and down the food chain.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]well then if supporters of our club don't think it will be of benefit to young players if they are any good to turn professional with us after we've spent 5-10 years developing them, we might as well close down all forms of youth development.
To be fair I was trying to answer the question by imagining how the individuals concerned would look at the situation, rather than as a supporter. But
a) If he goes for say £600k, then someone might regret shutting down the youth development setup, surely?
b) it's not 5-10 years - in his case I'd say no more than three
c) What Henry says is right.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]well then if supporters of our club don't think it will be of benefit to young players if they are any good to turn professional with us after we've spent 5-10 years developing them, we might as well close down all forms of youth development.
that is not what i said or mean. i was commenting on what i think will happen in jonjo's case.
take cafc loyalties away, if you were advising jonjo (or if you had a 16-17 year old son) what would you advise him to do.
sign a x year contract for a club heading for division 3,
or sign a x year deal for a prem side, which will make you financially safe for life whilst also giving you the chance to train with and get coached by experienced internationals.
or to put it harshly, what can parkinson and kinsella offer that zola and steve clarke can't.
Do people honestly think that he will learn his trade better training and playing reserves for West Ham or being an integral part of a League One/ Championship Team, nothing outweighs the experience gained from first team football played at any level.This boy is good enough to play at the highest level possible whether he does it in the next 3 years of 5 years wont make that much difference.If you look at West Ham midfield it looks pretty settled Behrani, Parker, Noble, Collinson and Dyer when fit they all well ahead of him in the pecking order if they want him know they will still want him after 2/3 years when he has 100/150 appearences under his belt and a player much closer to his potential.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]take your point henners but schoolboy to pro vs paying current market price is a little different in terms of pillaging[/quote]
Maybe from our point of view it is. I wonder how Dulwich fans would see it?
I'm sure West Ham fans would tell us to stop moaning and holding Jon Jo back and anyway you got decent money for him.[/quote]
I think Uncle's silence here may be saying something .... or maybe he is just away - but if I were Jonjo, I'd go to West Ham - Charlton, after one decent performance in eons - is NOT the place I'd want to learn my career.
Sorry and all that - but that's how I would see it. I hope he doesn't and I hope he thinks we can achieve the unthinkable (if only one game ago) and stay up - and then he stays - but if he has to make the decision at the end of this month, and cannot wait until our future is sorted - I'd go ....
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]
If Chris Dickson turns out to be a great goal scorer in the CCC that some predict he will have been a steal from Dulwich at £50k. We were happy to take advantage of our vastly better finances and prospects to lure Chris here and other clubs will try to do the same with Jon Jo. Tis the way of the world and always has been. All that changes is that Charlton move up and down the food chain.
It's not the same situation. The difference is we cannot stop jonjo joining any club that wants him. Dulwich could have turned down our bid and continued to turn down bids until his contract is up. Whether it is advisable to keep a player against is not the point.
They had a contract for Dicko which gave them bargaining power. We have no power whatsoever. If Jonjo signs and leaves in the summer then fine, because we will have had the power to get an acceptable transfer fee. That's why this is such a big issue, not whether we get to see him play for us or not.
Comments
spot on bredrin
anyways back on subject - Jonjo will stay I bloody hope, I will be gutted if he does jump ship and really shaft us (cos you no west ham won the world cup so obviously they would only pay a packet of walkers as compo, just because theyve bout so much to the british game we all owe them)
Leave or Stay Charlton will carry on
BBBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
If Jonjo comes out and says I'm going as I wish to further my career right or wrong I would respect that I'd only treat him like Defoe if he acted like him told us he'd stay then stitch us up.
does he have to do one or the other on the 27th ? Can he just sit it out until the end of the season and decide then ?
If he doesn't get his schoolboy wages for a couple of weeks while he sorts out a deal with a prem club, he'll probably not be too worried about it. I don't think there's any formal cut-off. I guess if a player were to jack the game in on his 17th birthday and comeback on this 25th he could argue his original club weren't due anything, but can't see it as an issue otherwise. I'd say the bigger problem will be getting stiffed by the tribunal.
I'm sure the decision has already been made by JonJo, or will be made within the next few days.
He has a straightforward decision to make in my opinion. Does he see the long-term benefit to his game as playing regular games at this stage of his 'career' as more beneficial than spending the next couple of years training with better standard players, but getting lesser opportunities of first team football.
It has been awkward and frustrating this season because supporters and i'm sure himself expected him to feature more than he has. But he is still 16, his bones and muscles are still developing, and i'm pretty sure long-term it may have had an impact on his longevity in the game if he had been playing physically demanding Championship football every game (you only have to see how Dickson struggled near the end on Sat to see the difference in fitness required to play reserves and Championship football). I believe that Charlton have put his own development ahead of their own needs at times this season, and i hope JJ can appreciated that.
Next season will be a very different story, he will be 17 / 18 and if JJ stayed he would realistically expect to be one of the first names on the teamsheet whatever division we are in. He should easily be looking at getting 40 games under his belt next season, if he stayed injury free.
That to me, in an appreciative environment where there will not be as much pressure on him as there would be in a premier league set up, would benefit his game a lot more than reserve team football. I really wonder how much John Bostock appreciates his move to Spurs as he has featured in zero games this season.
I hope he makes the right decision. We as a club appear to have looked after him well, and i hope he recognises that, and the fact that he has a better chance of carving out a good reputation for himself playing regularly here next season, than clogging up a Wham / Spurs etc reserve team. If he is good enough, they will soon be back with much improved offers.
If he is solely interested in short-term cash though, then forget about him staying. I'm not sure he is though.
He'll have a contract like every other youth player won't he? Two years as an u18 on a youth contract, though he can turn pro before that once he's 17.
You wouldn't see the Prem clubs that are sniffing around for dust.
If he has a savvy agent I would have thought it would be common sense to sign a 3 year contract, get first team football under your belt at a place you will be well liked for 1-2 years and then move on (if we are not back in the promised land of the Prem by then of course). The contract could even have a buy out clause in it to stop price being an issue in future. Becomes a win-win for everyone then.
I believe his agent is his father, so he should at least be looking for the best long term for the boy, but who knows how much experience the bloke has of these things, or how well he'd be able to judge which way is best..
As I said before I reckon he'll go, it's not like we're going to wave a load of cash in front of him and clubs will know they can get him at a snip.
if it is west ham, he can develop further over the next couple of years around international players and a managment set up that has been involved with some international stars.
west ham will look at it if he does develop quickly and ends up being as mature as fabregas was at 17 then they will benefit hugely. if they decide that he needs 'toughening up' then they can send him on loan as and when and to whom they see fit. (like we did with parker).
i honestly think playing 40 games for us, whatever division we are in next year, won't be of long term benefit to him.
here here - pointless lets shut it down and spend our valley gold money on fixing the holes in the roof
Everything I have heard about the young man is that he is mentally tough and able to cope with being the player he is so not sure why he is like a 12 year old.
As I said my gut feeling is that he will sign for us. How long he stays after that will depend on how good he is and how quickly he shows that talent on a regular basis, if at all.
If Chris Dickson turns out to be a great goal scorer in the CCC that some predict he will have been a steal from Dulwich at £50k. We were happy to take advantage of our vastly better finances and prospects to lure Chris here and other clubs will try to do the same with Jon Jo. Tis the way of the world and always has been. All that changes is that Charlton move up and down the food chain.
To be fair I was trying to answer the question by imagining how the individuals concerned would look at the situation, rather than as a supporter. But
a) If he goes for say £600k, then someone might regret shutting down the youth development setup, surely?
b) it's not 5-10 years - in his case I'd say no more than three
c) What Henry says is right.
Maybe from our point of view it is. I wonder how Dulwich fans would see it?
I'm sure West Ham fans would tell us to stop moaning and holding Jon Jo back and anyway you got decent money for him.
that is not what i said or mean. i was commenting on what i think will happen in jonjo's case.
take cafc loyalties away, if you were advising jonjo (or if you had a 16-17 year old son) what would you advise him to do.
sign a x year contract for a club heading for division 3,
or sign a x year deal for a prem side, which will make you financially safe for life whilst also giving you the chance to train with and get coached by experienced internationals.
or to put it harshly, what can parkinson and kinsella offer that zola and steve clarke can't.
Maybe from our point of view it is. I wonder how Dulwich fans would see it?
I'm sure West Ham fans would tell us to stop moaning and holding Jon Jo back and anyway you got decent money for him.[/quote]
Just admit it Henners on this one u are wrong..
:P
If we get relegated then would we be in any real position to turn down a decent offer?
Equally if we do manage to stay up, how many other 'assets' do we have to help towards reducing our losses once the parachute money runs out?
Whatever happens, if a Premier League club were to come in with a serious bid, then I'd be very surprised if he is still here come August.
Sorry and all that - but that's how I would see it. I hope he doesn't and I hope he thinks we can achieve the unthinkable (if only one game ago) and stay up - and then he stays - but if he has to make the decision at the end of this month, and cannot wait until our future is sorted - I'd go ....
It's not the same situation. The difference is we cannot stop jonjo joining any club that wants him. Dulwich could have turned down our bid and continued to turn down bids until his contract is up. Whether it is advisable to keep a player against is not the point.
They had a contract for Dicko which gave them bargaining power. We have no power whatsoever. If Jonjo signs and leaves in the summer then fine, because we will have had the power to get an acceptable transfer fee. That's why this is such a big issue, not whether we get to see him play for us or not.