LOL - I've just found this from the thread Nadou started entitled "Training Session" on the 1st August 2008:
"The main worry was the way in which everyone, especially the strikers, squandered chances in front of the goal. I think that, yet again, that's going to be our main problem this season."
Shame Pards and Parky didn't have the same foresight though Parky did at least recognise the potential of goalscoring machine Burton.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]I suspect that Dickson is getting his chance now because Parkinson had no other choice, look at our forwards this season:
Gray - injured and out for the rest of the season, before that he was hardly setting the division alight.
Varney - shipped off to Derby, after flattering to deceive, he had an extended run this year and last, but isn't up to it at this level.
Bouazza - ok, nominally a left winger, but played up front occasionally, anyway he's left...
McLeod - hasn't really done it, has been injured and now on-loan at Millwall.
Burton - over the hill, but having been brought in by Parky he had to give him a few games.
Toddy - on his way out and not considered fit enough to start a game, and the most we'll see of him is a few more appearances on the bench.
Dickson did put in a transfer request, which was accepted and had a serious enough offer been made he'd be an ex-player by now. I don't buy the line that Parky/Pards were holding him back to train him up to standard before unleashing him, and in any case he has a lot to learn and even more to prove. Let's not get excited about him until he has a record worth boasting about - he has one goal this year and wasn't trusted by the team to take the penalty yesterday. Of course I hope he makes it and I see signs that he will, but I think he's been built up by the failure of our other attacking options and his non-league/reserve team record rather than by anything he's actually done on the pitch. Give him some time and we'll know.
Agree with all of that except he also scored 11 in 11 starts for Gillingham last year in the division we're heading for. Even more reason to keep him wouldn't you think?
Agree with all of that except he also scored 11 in 11 starts for Gillingham last year in the division we're heading for. Even more reason to keep him wouldn't you think?
.........
We aren't in that division yet!
He would likely have got a chance or two when he returned from loan last season (if I'm right Gillingham wanted to either sign him full-time or extend the loan), but Pardew recalled him...and then he got injured messing about and missed the rest of the season. Had he not gotten injured then who knows...
I've no problems with keeping him, he's under contract and perhaps has a point to prove and in time will prove a good goal scorer, but I want to see him score and set up a few goals. Obviously he won't score goals, or improve his game, unless he gets chances and with Gray etc injured he now has an extended run to prove himself. It's up to him to take it and prove Parky/Pards wrong for leaving him on the bench/in the stands for too long.
Attributing Dickson's 'form' to the management is a complete joke in my opinion. If he was being that well man-managed then he wouldn't have put a transfer request in. And those who seem to think that that was part of Parky/Kins' plan then just have a think about what you're saying because it's ridiculous.
Locked on Facts
1) He would have left if someone would have made an offer for him, and look at the player we would have missed out on.
2) He tore the opposition's defence up in that cup game just as he has been doing recently. Long before Parky/Kins suposedly wonderful training techniques and man management turned him into this great player.
3) He has always had this. It's nothing to do with Parky, Kins or Pardew. What's down to them is that he hasn't had a chance to do it sooner. Parky is just trying to put a cover on/justify why he hasn't.
[cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite]Attributing Dickson's 'form' to the management is a complete joke in my opinion. If he was being that well man-managed then he wouldn't have put a transfer request in. And those who seem to think that that was part of Parky/Kins' plan then just have a think about what you're saying because it's ridiculous.
Locked on Facts
1) He would have left if someone would have made an offer for him
And nobody did. Not for a fee or a loan.
I am not anti Dicko. Far from it. But you could see at the Palace home game how our defence was kept on the back foot by some poor ball retention by Dicko. And as Richard Murray also said at the AGM its a team game and Dicko was still learning and needed to add that dimension to his game. Which he has.
But he is clearly improving and very entertaining and I hope he lives up to the high expectations we have of him.
There were plenty of deals done in January. Dicko may have been an ideal cheap(ish) option for some. But no not a sausage.
That speaks volumes to me and maybe it did to him too.
But probably the biggest factor in all this may have been the injury to Andy Gray.
You're answering your own point. 'Dicko may have been an ideal option for some. But no not a sausage'. Exactly. Weird isn't it. I mean, come on now. The bloke scored...what was it, 11 goals in 11 games? As I said we can't control the finances or transfer policy of other clubs. Neither you nor I know what went on there. But the fact is he scored in practically every game he played in at that level. And that suggests a whole lot more than the fact nobody made a clear offer.
And if I remember correctly the Gills manager said he'd loved to have had him back
We hear that loads of scouts are out looking at Shelvey and yet when a situation develops for this free scoring cheap striker who cant get in the first team to be taken on by another club nobody appears interested. Despite our financial predicament we did deals (maybe because of) so it seems odd to me.
Lets just hope that he does have the ability to score goals at this level because we are all going to be pretty disappointed if he cant.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Agree with all of that except he also scored 11 in 11 starts for Gillingham last year in the division we're heading for. Even more reason to keep him wouldn't you think?
McLeod and Varney were both leading players in the third division, I think McLeod was even in their season team pick and they did not make it in our division, so scoring by Dicko in that division maybe indicative, however it is by no means guaranteed that he would score at this level.
My only complaint regarding his handling has been that he should have had longer periods off the bench to get used to this level instead of 5-10 Minutes when the game had already been lost.
[cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite]
McLeod and Varney were both leading players in the third division, I think McLeod was even in their season team pick and they did not make it in our division,.
McLeod's scoring exploits and season team pick award - were in Division 2 (4th tier).
Last night he was terrible, first half I was defending him to my mate saying he is not a lone striker and that other than not chasing lost causes he was doing well, he looked capable of doing something anyway. But second half he was dire, people may criticise the header but the moment that summed it up to me was when a lucky ricochet landed at his feet with Sullivan off his line and he flicked at the ball with the outside of his foot, and if it had not been booted out for a corner it probably would not have even reached the goal.
championship striker you are having a laugh
the reason he didn't get his chance was cos he is chuff but then with what's available they all are, so it's just a question of which non scoring striker(s) they're gonna play
unfortunately last night, he played exactly like what he is...a non-league striker....couldn't fault him for effort but that little bit of composure just wasn't there.
I suppose the only saving grace is that, unlike some Clubs, we didn't pay £2.5 million for a League 1 striker. There again we've already done that too.
Completely disagree his running and commitment in the first half was the only reason we got chances. He had to do the job of striker and running from deep (Shelvey's job). Came to the second half and he was absolutely nackered. His shooting in the second half was poor but he had the bravery to keep going and bother full backs and center halfs. Something Varney or Gray never do. Should have scored from the second half corner.
You play 4-5-1 with a pacey striker who has to drop deep, then you're tactics have completely nackered him by the end of the first half. No player has made so many chances for Charlton with his running since Lita. I'd rather see last nights performance from Dickson than hundreds of games of awful useless movement from Gray and Varney.
I have to agree with you there Colin. Dickson may have looked pants last night but I'd much rather have him up-front than Gray or Burton.
I just wonder what he would have been like if he had gone into the first team this time last year when he came back from his loan spell with the Gills all fired up - instead of wasting away on the bench or in the stiffs for a year.
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]Completely disagree his running and commitment in the first half was the only reason we got chances. He had to do the job of striker and running from deep (Shelvey's job). Came to the second half and he was absolutely nackered. His shooting in the second half was poor but he had the bravery to keep going and bother full backs and center halfs. Something Varney or Gray never do. Should have scored from the second half corner.
You play 4-5-1 with a pacey striker who has to drop deep, then you're tactics have completely nackered him by the end of the first half. No player has made so many chances for Charlton with his running since Lita. I'd rather see last nights performance from Dickson than hundreds of games of awful useless movement from Gray and Varney.
Have to agree with all of this. He had an off day, simple as that. In the last home game against Plymouth he was brilliant.
He was poor last night but he should be allowed one under par effort. How much rubbish have we watched from Gray, Varney and McLeod who all cost a hell of a lot more than he did. Shame he missed that header near the end - was a sitter and would have done his confidence a world of good though it would have made no difference to our season. I still say that if it had been him not Burton who had the two one-on-ones (from the Shelvey passes) in the first ten minutes with the Forest goalkeeper our season would have turned out differently...
He has been off the boil as a loan striker and I hope when Kandol returns he will pick up again. But you could tell he knew he was crap last night and we just have to hope it kicks him up the arse. I think he is worried he hasn't scored yet and he is snatching at his chances he just needs to calm down.
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]I have to agree with you there Colin. Dickson may have looked pants last night but I'd much rather have him up-front than Gray or Burton.
I just wonder what he would have been like if he had gone into the first team this time last year when he came back from his loan spell with the Gills all fired up - instead of wasting away on the bench or in the stiffs for a year.
It is hard to judge Gray fairly because of his injury and personal problems but essentially I agree with you.
I just wonder what he would have been like if he had gone into the first team this time last year when he came back from his loan spell with the Gills all fired up - instead of wasting away on the bench or in the stiffs for a year.
I want to see him with Kandol again. As much as I want to see Shelvey play and develop, I think we'll be more balanced with those two up front. Shelvey will be useful as a sub.
There was one point in the second half we played a long ball up the pitch, both Dickson and Shelvey made runs either side of the centre back, hoping he'd miss the ball. With Kandol (or even Burton/Gray) there, he'd challenge for the header and that's where we saw Dickson and Kandol link up so well a few games ago. Dickson's not the most intelligent striker, but he looks like he need someone like Kandol to win headers, hold up the ball etc, that looks like it might get the best out of him. Shelvey can play a through ball for him but he's never going to win the ball in the air. Anyone know who and what type of striker(s) he played with at Gillingham?
Comments
"The main worry was the way in which everyone, especially the strikers, squandered chances in front of the goal. I think that, yet again, that's going to be our main problem this season."
Shame Pards and Parky didn't have the same foresight though Parky did at least recognise the potential of goalscoring machine Burton.
Agree with all of that except he also scored 11 in 11 starts for Gillingham last year in the division we're heading for. Even more reason to keep him wouldn't you think?
.........
We aren't in that division yet!
He would likely have got a chance or two when he returned from loan last season (if I'm right Gillingham wanted to either sign him full-time or extend the loan), but Pardew recalled him...and then he got injured messing about and missed the rest of the season. Had he not gotten injured then who knows...
I've no problems with keeping him, he's under contract and perhaps has a point to prove and in time will prove a good goal scorer, but I want to see him score and set up a few goals. Obviously he won't score goals, or improve his game, unless he gets chances and with Gray etc injured he now has an extended run to prove himself. It's up to him to take it and prove Parky/Pards wrong for leaving him on the bench/in the stands for too long.
Locked on Facts
1) He would have left if someone would have made an offer for him, and look at the player we would have missed out on.
2) He tore the opposition's defence up in that cup game just as he has been doing recently. Long before Parky/Kins suposedly wonderful training techniques and man management turned him into this great player.
3) He has always had this. It's nothing to do with Parky, Kins or Pardew. What's down to them is that he hasn't had a chance to do it sooner. Parky is just trying to put a cover on/justify why he hasn't.
And nobody did. Not for a fee or a loan.
I am not anti Dicko. Far from it. But you could see at the Palace home game how our defence was kept on the back foot by some poor ball retention by Dicko. And as Richard Murray also said at the AGM its a team game and Dicko was still learning and needed to add that dimension to his game. Which he has.
But he is clearly improving and very entertaining and I hope he lives up to the high expectations we have of him.
That's not the point though is it. We can't control the finances of other clubs.
And we beat Palace.
That speaks volumes to me and maybe it did to him too.
But probably the biggest factor in all this may have been the injury to Andy Gray.
And if I remember correctly the Gills manager said he'd loved to have had him back
We hear that loads of scouts are out looking at Shelvey and yet when a situation develops for this free scoring cheap striker who cant get in the first team to be taken on by another club nobody appears interested. Despite our financial predicament we did deals (maybe because of) so it seems odd to me.
Lets just hope that he does have the ability to score goals at this level because we are all going to be pretty disappointed if he cant.
McLeod and Varney were both leading players in the third division, I think McLeod was even in their season team pick and they did not make it in our division, so scoring by Dicko in that division maybe indicative, however it is by no means guaranteed that he would score at this level.
My only complaint regarding his handling has been that he should have had longer periods off the bench to get used to this level instead of 5-10 Minutes when the game had already been lost.
McLeod's scoring exploits and season team pick award - were in Division 2 (4th tier).
the reason he didn't get his chance was cos he is chuff but then with what's available they all are, so it's just a question of which non scoring striker(s) they're gonna play
You play 4-5-1 with a pacey striker who has to drop deep, then you're tactics have completely nackered him by the end of the first half. No player has made so many chances for Charlton with his running since Lita. I'd rather see last nights performance from Dickson than hundreds of games of awful useless movement from Gray and Varney.
I just wonder what he would have been like if he had gone into the first team this time last year when he came back from his loan spell with the Gills all fired up - instead of wasting away on the bench or in the stiffs for a year.
Have to agree with all of this. He had an off day, simple as that. In the last home game against Plymouth he was brilliant.
How much rubbish have we watched from Gray, Varney and McLeod who all cost a hell of a lot more than he did.
Shame he missed that header near the end - was a sitter and would have done his confidence a world of good though it would have made no difference to our season.
I still say that if it had been him not Burton who had the two one-on-ones (from the Shelvey passes) in the first ten minutes with the Forest goalkeeper our season would have turned out differently...
It is hard to judge Gray fairly because of his injury and personal problems but essentially I agree with you.
..........
He spent most of that time injured.
There was one point in the second half we played a long ball up the pitch, both Dickson and Shelvey made runs either side of the centre back, hoping he'd miss the ball. With Kandol (or even Burton/Gray) there, he'd challenge for the header and that's where we saw Dickson and Kandol link up so well a few games ago. Dickson's not the most intelligent striker, but he looks like he need someone like Kandol to win headers, hold up the ball etc, that looks like it might get the best out of him. Shelvey can play a through ball for him but he's never going to win the ball in the air. Anyone know who and what type of striker(s) he played with at Gillingham?