[cite]Posted By: Greaves[/cite] A complete mountain out of a molehill if ever there was one.
Possibly.
But it looks like our place in a division is likely to be taken by a club that many people on here will tell you they despise to the core. A club that in our wisdom, we have decided to help them achieve promotion by lending them what they view to be a key player. A player from a position we ironically are currently struggling in badly.
I don't want to read about Millwall's progress, forthcoming fixtures or their manager's views on an official Charlton site at any stage, let alone at a time when they are on the verge of overtaking us. If i wanted to know about Millwall or McLeod, i would look at their sites.
The original complaint was justified in my eyes, and the fact it received what can be viewed as a rude reply just compounds the issue. No one is saying they should be sacked or anything, just highlighting that it has been handled very wrongly.
And i do wonder how prompt and forthcoming the apology would have been if it had not been brought to a wide audience.
Purely out of interest Greaves, do you write for the OS, or related to any of the writers ?
Totally agree with the original complaint that was made to the club. The fact that McLeod is there in the first place shows how out of touch the football club are by helping out the local rivals, without the communications staff getting in on the act by giving us quotes from their manager and when they will next be playing.
People are being incredibly thin skinned about this. The reply was rude and not necessary but would all this fuss be being made if we were in the play-off positions and had just beaten Sheff Weds 4-1? I very much doubt it.
[cite]Posted By: Greaves[/cite]
I, for one, like reading how the loan players are getting on. Saves trawling round each individual club's website. They've always done a round-up on the loan players so I don't really see what the problem is here - it's not the OS's fault Mr McLeod happens to be on loan with our friends down the road!
[cite]Posted By: Greaves[/cite]All this fuss seems a bit OTT to me!
[cite]Posted By: Greaves[/cite]If the OS didn't do a loans round-up, I bet people would moan about that too! OS out!
[cite]Posted By: Greaves[/cite]
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Sorry, pissed off or not it's all about being professional in your work. I get plenty of unwarranted grief in my job but I wouldn't dream of replying like that - whether I was worried about my job or not. Inexcusable in my view, regardless of what the original email was about.
Oh come on - it's hardly like the email verbally abused him! It just basically said, if you don't want to read it, then don't. A complete mountain out of a molehill if ever there was one.
[cite]Posted By: Greaves[/cite]They've since apologised, let that be the end of it.
Actually Tom, i've stewed on this tonight and i actually think you've been bang out of order.
If you want to come on here and defend / explain / dispute any article you write, or reply to comments on your articles, then no problem whatsoever.
But to come on here and defend it under a false name, whilst attempting to play down supporter's individual concerns and make out they are wrong in their complaints, well that is poor form and dishonest.
I've gotta say that if a club employee is posting on here to wind fans up - especially someone in the press office - then that's incredibly bad form, and pretty bloody irresponsible when relations between the club and fans are frayed.
Go for it, Danny - we like it when you get angry ;-)
Earlier today I used the 'if you don't like it , don't read it line' in defence of Oohaah's black humour post - simply as one forum member to others. Now, though, I find that defence very, very hollow when made by an employee to fans in defence of an official site.
I've been worried for a long time, but it's just getting worse and worse by the day now.
Just another sign of the contempt in which we are being treated with
carry on folks it will stop one day because we wont let it continue some people involved within the club seriously have got to get with the reallity of where we find ourselves and quickly you can not continue to treat your fans (customers like this)
You have learnt nothing you deserve nothing reading and watching on here and watching our club close to hand it is as far away from its public's opinion and out of touch with its voters as Gordon Brown and his Mob from league leaders and inovators to liars and broken dreams
Perhaps I had better offer my opinion on all this.
To start at the beginning, I am pleased Mike at least seems to be content with the response, and explanation, he ultimately received from the club as a whole to his message.
Just to recap briefly, it is standard policy for the official website to round up the weekend loan action on a Monday morning. As has been stated elsewhere, communications department staff cannot help – and cannot ignore - the fact that a player has gone on loan to Millwall, regardless of how fans feel about the club’s rivals.
Our aim is to keep our fans as well informed about the club as possible. In response to the complaints that that is fair enough, but it shouldn’t be the main story, I would argue that it was only the main story for a brief period of time because it was the latest story. As time progresses, news values dictate stories will move down, and ultimately off, the front page – as I write this, the loans story is now at the very bottom of the page.
On the subject of the kick-off time, this is again fairly standard practice. Some fans may not want to know when a loan player may be next in action, some may do – our policy is generally to try to provide as much information as possible. Indeed, Izale McLeod’s next match is slightly of more interest than usual, I would suggest, as it remains unclear whether Millwall will ask, or Charlton will give, permission, for the striker to play in Saturday’s FA Cup tie.
I should add that the policy of regularly inserting kick-off times (in brackets) after the date of a fixture stems from the regular complaints the club receives from fans that the club doesn’t publicise kick-off times of Charlton matches enough – we simply apply this practice across the board.
We take great pride in the official website. There have been occasions when sheer weight of demand on the site – notably when the Nottingham Forest match was in danger of being called off earlier this month - causes a few problems, but the fact we have thus far resisted going down the Premium TV route should illustrate, I hope, our commitment to providing as good a service, and as uniquely Charlton a service, as possible.
This requires long hours and hard work from a number of people who have a great passion for the club - whether they are Charlton fans or not - and for doing the job to their utmost ability. Despite the industry, none of us earns footballer-style wages, so I hope supporters can understand that it might be hard to read strident, and regular, criticism of the way you do your work on a daily basis on such message boards as Charlton Life.
None of which, I stress, is an excuse for a club employee posting such messages regarding the club under a pseudonym, which is – as Inspector Sands said somewhat mildly above – pretty bad form.
I would argue it was more naïve and misguided than deliberately malicious, and I can also testify to the pressures that the club and its staff are currently under – both internally and externally. But it’s simply wrong. The matter will be dealt with internally, and I would like to make clear it won’t happen again.
Over recent years, Charlton has always communicated honestly with fans and, under my watch so to speak, that will continue, regardless of the circumstances. As others have said previously elsewhere, this is a time when that approach is more important than ever, and I hope this message, under my name and signed by me for complete clarity, demonstrates this.
The wider issue, of course, is that such incidents undermine the credibility of the club, but I hope this isolated incident will be treated as such. It’s not “another sign of contempt the club has for its fans”, it’s a simple cock-up.
Although an occasional lurker, I don’t intend to make a habit of posting here. But I hope this message helps in this instance.
Matt...I STILL don't see why we need to put up another clubs fixtures and kick off times....to make it worse you stick up stuff about Millsmall and in ours and theirs current positions do you think that's a good call (whether you do it for other clubs or not)......are legions of Addicks (indeed any at all) going to slap all the way to Hull to watch him...preposterous to say the least Matt...sorry mate but I take issue with that part of the article...it's totally absurd and please don't let it happen again(with ANY clubs fixtures....we don't want or need to know....ESPECIALLY MILLSMALL!)...get it...thanks OK!!
Thank you for your considered post Matt, there is no doubt there is still a strong core of "Charlton" within the club who have some affintity with the fans and I hope it continues from people "further up".
In the light of what Matt has said - and said so reasonably - can we just move on?
May be even return to the real issue. Why is Izale now going to pass Deon Burton and Andy Gray going in the opposite direction as he helps Millwall up and they help Charlton down?
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]In the light of what Matt has said - and said so reasonably - can we just move on?
May be even return to the real issue. Why is Izale now going to pass Deon Burton and Andy Gray going in the opposite direction as he helps Millwall up and they help Charlton down?
I totally agree Nigel, lets move on. The matter seems to have been dealt with. As you say the worry is that Izale will be helping Millwall to pass us in the opposite direction.
but if you are you are the only department at the club that doesnt hold us in contempt because the rest certainly do
I'm not having that, mate. Club development is staffed entirely by Charlton supporters and we'll put our old season ticket books and programmes up against anyone on this forum.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]they wont go up if mcleod is playing i'm confident of that
Disagree. He would be amongst the best strikers in that division. He will score goals and create panic in defences with his pace, power & directness.
It's lucky for us we have so many other prolific strikers, that we can afford to loan him out to our friends down the road.
[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite]I'm not having that, mate. Club development is staffed entirely by Charlton supporters and we'll put our old season ticket books and programmes up against anyone on this forum.
Agree with the Airman. A lot of the other departments are staffed in part by fans and those who are not have, in my experience at least, a real concern for the fans and the club.
I think we, as fans have been spoilt. At other clubs that email or other letters of complaint would just go straight in the bin.
Matt, thank you for your reply. Honesty is all we as fans ever ask for, that runs from the chairman to the manager, to the tea boy.
I have the upmost respect for the job you and the communications team do, and despite what some people may say, know that the content on our official website and productions is ten times better than our comparison clubs, and know how hard you and your team work.
So there is no witch hunt from this direction, and hope this can just be dropped quietly and moved on. I would not want the individual involved punished in anyway as like you say, it is more naivety than intent. But i felt the need to highlight so that it did not happen again. We, like other websites and supporter committees, are an independent group and it is important we retain that independence, particularly at times such as this.
We take pride that club staff contribute openly to this forum, and in my opinion helps give it strength and credibility. It is something the vast majority appreciate, and goes some distance to help unite fans with the club. But it does require an open approach.
The right to reply to any particular praise / unjust point / criticism / untruth will always be there.
Airman i am sorry if i caused you offence the point i was aiming at was that there is contempt being passed on to our fans yourselves included.
My accusation was some what sweeping and generalisied and i here by offer an appology to yourselves and the stirling work you do.
My gripe is at certain levels of this once fantastic club which i do believe are holding us in contempt
and not at yourselves i will remind myself that staing such things can cause offence to those to which i dont wish to alienate or attack and i will not be so sweeping in my critism towards the club and focus it on those that are accountable.
Comments
Possibly.
But it looks like our place in a division is likely to be taken by a club that many people on here will tell you they despise to the core. A club that in our wisdom, we have decided to help them achieve promotion by lending them what they view to be a key player. A player from a position we ironically are currently struggling in badly.
I don't want to read about Millwall's progress, forthcoming fixtures or their manager's views on an official Charlton site at any stage, let alone at a time when they are on the verge of overtaking us. If i wanted to know about Millwall or McLeod, i would look at their sites.
The original complaint was justified in my eyes, and the fact it received what can be viewed as a rude reply just compounds the issue. No one is saying they should be sacked or anything, just highlighting that it has been handled very wrongly.
And i do wonder how prompt and forthcoming the apology would have been if it had not been brought to a wide audience.
Purely out of interest Greaves, do you write for the OS, or related to any of the writers ?
Actually, I'm just dying to do that anyway - and sod the apology!
;o)
And the least said about the reply the better!
Actually Tom, i've stewed on this tonight and i actually think you've been bang out of order.
If you want to come on here and defend / explain / dispute any article you write, or reply to comments on your articles, then no problem whatsoever.
But to come on here and defend it under a false name, whilst attempting to play down supporter's individual concerns and make out they are wrong in their complaints, well that is poor form and dishonest.
Earlier today I used the 'if you don't like it , don't read it line' in defence of Oohaah's black humour post - simply as one forum member to others. Now, though, I find that defence very, very hollow when made by an employee to fans in defence of an official site.
I've been worried for a long time, but it's just getting worse and worse by the day now.
carry on folks it will stop one day because we wont let it continue some people involved within the club seriously have got to get with the reallity of where we find ourselves and quickly you can not continue to treat your fans (customers like this)
You have learnt nothing you deserve nothing reading and watching on here and watching our club close to hand it is as far away from its public's opinion and out of touch with its voters as Gordon Brown and his Mob from league leaders and inovators to liars and broken dreams
To start at the beginning, I am pleased Mike at least seems to be content with the response, and explanation, he ultimately received from the club as a whole to his message.
Just to recap briefly, it is standard policy for the official website to round up the weekend loan action on a Monday morning. As has been stated elsewhere, communications department staff cannot help – and cannot ignore - the fact that a player has gone on loan to Millwall, regardless of how fans feel about the club’s rivals.
Our aim is to keep our fans as well informed about the club as possible. In response to the complaints that that is fair enough, but it shouldn’t be the main story, I would argue that it was only the main story for a brief period of time because it was the latest story. As time progresses, news values dictate stories will move down, and ultimately off, the front page – as I write this, the loans story is now at the very bottom of the page.
On the subject of the kick-off time, this is again fairly standard practice. Some fans may not want to know when a loan player may be next in action, some may do – our policy is generally to try to provide as much information as possible. Indeed, Izale McLeod’s next match is slightly of more interest than usual, I would suggest, as it remains unclear whether Millwall will ask, or Charlton will give, permission, for the striker to play in Saturday’s FA Cup tie.
I should add that the policy of regularly inserting kick-off times (in brackets) after the date of a fixture stems from the regular complaints the club receives from fans that the club doesn’t publicise kick-off times of Charlton matches enough – we simply apply this practice across the board.
We take great pride in the official website. There have been occasions when sheer weight of demand on the site – notably when the Nottingham Forest match was in danger of being called off earlier this month - causes a few problems, but the fact we have thus far resisted going down the Premium TV route should illustrate, I hope, our commitment to providing as good a service, and as uniquely Charlton a service, as possible.
This requires long hours and hard work from a number of people who have a great passion for the club - whether they are Charlton fans or not - and for doing the job to their utmost ability. Despite the industry, none of us earns footballer-style wages, so I hope supporters can understand that it might be hard to read strident, and regular, criticism of the way you do your work on a daily basis on such message boards as Charlton Life.
None of which, I stress, is an excuse for a club employee posting such messages regarding the club under a pseudonym, which is – as Inspector Sands said somewhat mildly above – pretty bad form.
I would argue it was more naïve and misguided than deliberately malicious, and I can also testify to the pressures that the club and its staff are currently under – both internally and externally. But it’s simply wrong. The matter will be dealt with internally, and I would like to make clear it won’t happen again.
Over recent years, Charlton has always communicated honestly with fans and, under my watch so to speak, that will continue, regardless of the circumstances. As others have said previously elsewhere, this is a time when that approach is more important than ever, and I hope this message, under my name and signed by me for complete clarity, demonstrates this.
The wider issue, of course, is that such incidents undermine the credibility of the club, but I hope this isolated incident will be treated as such. It’s not “another sign of contempt the club has for its fans”, it’s a simple cock-up.
Although an occasional lurker, I don’t intend to make a habit of posting here. But I hope this message helps in this instance.
Matt Wright
CAFC communications manager
My next post will be on Tuesday (09.14am). ;-)
May be even return to the real issue. Why is Izale now going to pass Deon Burton and Andy Gray going in the opposite direction as he helps Millwall up and they help Charlton down?
I totally agree Nigel, lets move on. The matter seems to have been dealt with. As you say the worry is that Izale will be helping Millwall to pass us in the opposite direction.
Well put and i hope your right
but if you are you are the only department at the club that doesnt hold us in contempt because the rest certainly do
I'm not having that, mate. Club development is staffed entirely by Charlton supporters and we'll put our old season ticket books and programmes up against anyone on this forum.
Disagree. He would be amongst the best strikers in that division. He will score goals and create panic in defences with his pace, power & directness.
It's lucky for us we have so many other prolific strikers, that we can afford to loan him out to our friends down the road.
Agree with the Airman. A lot of the other departments are staffed in part by fans and those who are not have, in my experience at least, a real concern for the fans and the club.
I think we, as fans have been spoilt. At other clubs that email or other letters of complaint would just go straight in the bin.
I have the upmost respect for the job you and the communications team do, and despite what some people may say, know that the content on our official website and productions is ten times better than our comparison clubs, and know how hard you and your team work.
So there is no witch hunt from this direction, and hope this can just be dropped quietly and moved on. I would not want the individual involved punished in anyway as like you say, it is more naivety than intent. But i felt the need to highlight so that it did not happen again. We, like other websites and supporter committees, are an independent group and it is important we retain that independence, particularly at times such as this.
We take pride that club staff contribute openly to this forum, and in my opinion helps give it strength and credibility. It is something the vast majority appreciate, and goes some distance to help unite fans with the club. But it does require an open approach.
The right to reply to any particular praise / unjust point / criticism / untruth will always be there.
Lets all move on now.
My accusation was some what sweeping and generalisied and i here by offer an appology to yourselves and the stirling work you do.
My gripe is at certain levels of this once fantastic club which i do believe are holding us in contempt
and not at yourselves i will remind myself that staing such things can cause offence to those to which i dont wish to alienate or attack and i will not be so sweeping in my critism towards the club and focus it on those that are accountable.
once again i appologise