Oggy good for you mate ------------ lets all hope your right.
Im just sick of the lies /spin .We now expect it from this Government but pisses me off when my fotie team start to do it .i feel we are truely going back to the BAD old days and BAd old ways both in football terms and in what the club tells us and treats us ----------------lets all hope im wrong.
we have to win 10 and draw 4 out of 17 possible games (forget the top 3 teams) signs of geting better can just f**k off we need wins.
Oggy said : "He might have been Pardew's assistant - but it's evident that in the past 6 weeks Parky is trying to do it in a completely different way."
I think that is right. It's called basic organisation, which it seemed desperate dan Pardew had completely gven up on at the end of his tenure. Still not sorted yet, mind. Not by a long chalk...
C'mon GH, be fair, where is he spinning anything here:
“If he stays, it will have to be that he is really up for it because I don’t want any disaffected players around the building.
“The mood in the camp and the way we are on the training pitch has got to be right. Hameur is a good lad and a very, very good professional.
“He has worked hard but probably would have liked to have produced more goals.
“His final ball probably could have been a bit better at times, but as a professional he has been fine"
That to me sounds like a very fair and honest assessment of Buzz based on what I've seen of him. In fact he's maybe being a bit generous to him as, at times, Buzz's attitude has seemed a little questionable. His criticisms are fair though, Buzz's set pieces and crossing are eratic and there were two guilt edge chances missed against Derby that really may have made all the difference to the way we'tre all feeling right now. All the same he's certainly not making out Buzz was a terrible player who won't be missed at all, but what can he say, if he made out like he was essential and we've no alternative what does that do for the morale of the other players, particularly the one's who will be asked to step up to the plate and compensate for Bouazza's absence in a must win game on Saturday?
I like the cut of Parky's jib and his face fits at the Valley in a way Pards never did, imo. That is of course small consolation without results, but it's not totally meaningless and I would say it gives me a bit more faith he might eventually turn it around and be a success here. The question is, how soon he can be that success, and will he be given enough time to realise the potential?
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]What's the most fundamental problem with the team - lack of footballing ability?
No. it's the players' mindset.
That's what I reckon as well, but I'm not sure that Parky is the right man to sort it out. I will continue to support the team and hopefully he can prove me wrong.
IMO Parky is trying to do and say the right things.
Pardew's signings were basically speculative and the majority never worked out. He also never built a solid defence ,where you must start.
Pards was here nearly 2 years and when he left, we still never had a decent solid fall back and only 2 centre halves. He should have done much better.
In a couple of months Parky has brought in McEverley who looks more solid than the other 2.
He has brought in Murtey who is more solid than Moo2.
He's trying to bring in Wayne Brown as a 3rd and essential centre half.
Now if only Pards had done this or something likewise.
Parky has not had the results, but he is trying to address the problems. If Pards was still in charge he would probably have got in another few wingers this window.
If you get the right players in, it should eventually come good. Let's wait and see.
Quote Oggy:
He brought in Burton. Failure?
10 years ago he was a 25 goal a season man, fetched a 7-figure transfer fee and played in the Prem.
More recently, was a vital goal scoring striker in Sheff Weds Division 1 promotion push. Plays more of target man these days and good team player - but of course, people are expecting him to score a netful of goals - free scoring players tend to command a high price, don't forget. But he was brought in to strengthen a team role where only one player was capable at a time when the window was shut. Who else was available?
Can't agree with that at all I'm afraid. He was never a 25 goal a season man (look him up on Wikipedia, 25 goals in 5 years at Derby, 27 in 3 years for Wednesday. I certainly never expected him to score a netful of goals either, I'd be surprised if he got more than 3 by the end of the season. And if rumours are to be believed we beat Cheltenham to his signature - surely even in our dire situation we can do better than competing with League 1 relegation candidates for new players. Also, although Pardew brought in Waghorn, Parky extended the deal by another month. Why?! Are Dickson and McCleod really so bereft of any talent that we're better off playing an 18 year old boy?
The clincher - no wins in 9 games, probably 10 by tomorrow evening. The only way I'll warm to Parky is if he takes over at Palace and does a similar job.
Without checking now, maybe I misread the stats if you say he scored 25 goals in 5 seasons for Derby - although to be fair, majority of those games for Derby would have been in the Prem?
My real point, though - was that Parky said if he can't play Gray, he had no other players who could hold the ball up front, or even play together, and Burton was available on loan while the transfer window was shut.
I'm not the manager, and my comments are based only on what Parky said and how Burton has performed in games for Charlton since.
I don't think Burton is half as bad as some people are making out. He's more mobile than Gray, more aggressive and has a decent first touch and is a bit more imaginative in his use of the ball. He's a bit reminiscent of Mark Bright when he came to us, who I note has been mentioned as an unsung hero, and if he had Mendonca playing alongside him banging em in for fun then people would probably lay off him a bit.
I don't think he's been a terrible signing by any stretch, especially given our poistion and he does at least seem to fit in with the way we are trying to play, which is another area Parky has improved - we have a clear style of play at last, something we haven't had since Curbs left. Lets hope Parky can unearth the new Mendonca as well!
Fair dos Oggy, nothing personal. I'd just spent all of December getting my hopes up that a Curbishley/Ince/Davies in shining armour was going to turn up at the start of January and rescue us. Parky seems like a good honest bloke and held in very high regard by Reading supporters but I've seen nothing in the way of signings or team selections to indicate that he is capable of getting us out of this. I don't want to go to Johnstones Paint Trophy games next season!
Seems to me he is trying to bring in the sort of players that we have all been crying out for, honest, consistent and determined characters who will put up a fight. You can't really ask for more than that at the moment. If some are loans, so be it, that's where we find ourselves. I hope it works out for his sake but more importantly for Charltons sake. We'll never know if Billy Davies or Ince would have saved us, I don't doubt some of our current crop of players ability just their fight for the cause. Hopefully his addressing this area will be enough for us to at least put up a good fight till the end of the season.
[cite]Posted By: MrLargo[/cite]Fair dos Oggy, nothing personal. I'd just spent all of December getting my hopes up that a Curbishley/Ince/Davies in shining armour was going to turn up at the start of January and rescue us. Parky seems like a good honest bloke and held in very high regard by Reading supporters but I've seen nothing in the way of signings or team selections to indicate that he is capable of getting us out of this. I don't want to go to Johnstones Paint Trophy games next season!
No worries, Mr Largo - it's just good honest debate and that's why we post on here. I believed the 'Parky is only caretaker' bit too - and was initially disappointed to find out that'd he'd been given the job.
But c'est la vie - so we might as well get behind him, and try to understand his way of thinking and what he is trying to do.
And he's already proved he is not Pardew's clone, he's trying to organise the side into a fighting team unit, instill a bit of backbone and pride in the shirt, and eliminate the imbalance and glaring weaknesses.
In short, he reminds me of a Charlton type manager in the Curbs and Lennie the Legend mould.
And at last, after 2 and a half years of 'cross your fingers and hope for the best' football - we are looking a bit better organised.
Oggy i know its Friday fella but its a tad early to "get on me cider"-----"reminds me of CAFC type manager in Curbs /Lennie mould" FFS there is rose tinted, there is glass half full-- then there is Oggy.
I am beginning to agree with you, Oggs - at least in that I can increasingly see what Parky is trying to do with his signings and target signings. I could never work out what Pardew was trying to do - probably because he didn't have a clue himself...
In Murty, Spring and Wayne Brown - and even Burton to an extent, I suppose - I can see a pattern that suggests Parky has a vision of the knd of team he thinks might get us out of this mess. Basically, he's looking for players who can put some proper backbone into the forlorn shambles he inherited (and which he presumably played some part in creating - but lets leave that to the history books for now).
As you say, some sense of coherent and rational organisation is emerging. Might not work and he has yet to win a game. But there are small and encouraging signs...
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]forlorn shambles he inherited (and which he presumably played some part in creating
I guess we'll also never know how much involvement he had in signings, direction (ha, ha, ha) that Pardew wanted. By his current actions seems like he probably didn't have a lot. Everyone agrees Pardew had a massive ego, maybe he thought not even his assistant could help him.
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]forlorn shambles he inherited (and which he presumably played some part in creating
I guess we'll also never know how much involvement he had in signings, direction (ha, ha, ha) that Pardew wanted. By his current actions seems like he probably didn't have a lot. Everyone agrees Pardew had a massive ego, maybe he thought not even his assistant could help him.
My guess is Iwelumo, Mills, Halford - all were signed at Parky's behest.
Rocket science ....? Probably not. They all played under him previously.
Perhaps you're right with Iwelumo and Halford and I'd say Iwelumo always gave his all and I'd like to have seen him stay. I also for the most part though Halford was a decent enough player, had a few mares but then who didn't? Out of all the signings/loans since pardew/parky regime I'd say they were 3 of the better ones.
[cite]Posted By: MrLargo[/cite]Fair dos Oggy, nothing personal. I'd just spent all of December getting my hopes up that a Curbishley/Ince/Davies in shining armour was going to turn up at the start of January and rescue us. Parky seems like a good honest bloke and held in very high regard by Reading supporters but I've seen nothing in the way of signings or team selections to indicate that he is capable of getting us out of this. I don't want to go to Johnstones Paint Trophy games next season!
I don't really understand that view, his team selection hasn't been that wrong, we really don't have many other options. He's now got the chance to change the squad a bit more, not just limited to short term loans. All people can argue is Dickson and Shelvey haven't been given a chance, and possibly McLeod.I can understand why he's not played any of them very much though.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]good job Parky was only involved in the "good" signings then.
Just saying no-one knows what he was involved in. People keep slagging him off that he was Pardews little lap-dog. Looks like from the type of players he's trying to bring in he may have different ideas. Not saying he's Bob Paisley or anything.
I can't imagine any of us doesn't hope that he will turn things around. Even though I strongly questioned the decision to appoint him, he's the manager and I am completely behind him and the team.
We do have twenty cup finals, as a fan I'm up for it, I won't give up until the maths are over.
Every fan is behind him and the team - our support won't go away, but he's WON NO GAMES IN 9
If we win today, perhaps my opinion may change (a little), but currently - even though he's bringing in players to make us more stable and more difficult to beat - it doesn't mean he's going to be a successful manager here. He had a squad at Hull that was in the relegation zone - Phil Brown came in, changed very little and got them promotion - so, ergo, Parkinson might be able to select a good squad but just might not be able to motivate them and tactically get it right in this division.
And until we win some games, I am not able to change that opinion - whether he talks sense or not (and it's a refreshing change from Pardew), it still does not mean he's a good enough manager for our current situation.
That's not pessimistic, it's not rose coloured specs, it's REALISTIC.
I like the way he thanked Waggott for the work behind the scenes in bringing in Spring.
Dont recall that sort of remark from the ego that was Pardew.
I dont think I have seen any words from Parky that I would describe as 'spin'. Just good honest straight talking about the situation as it is. Of course he needs to motivate players and fans as well so you would expect some words of encouragement.
I hope he gets the fans support 100% and that elusive win that could change things around so much comes today.
I think I must be schizophrenic because I read Oggy and find myself agreeing (up to a point at least). Then I read supaclive, and I can't really disagree with him, either !
I wonder if our sense of history is obscuring some issues to be honest. We seem to still cling to the notion that we are a well run club based on sound financial judgements. It may well have been whilst Curbs, Richard Murray and Peter Varney were at the helm, but was it Curbs that was the lynch pin? The appointment of Dowie, Reed, and Pardew would however suggest that sound judgement is very much a thing of the past and we are now waking up to that realisation. I would suggest that Parky is being scapegoated for past errors, that he was frozen out by Pards and that he has never had a chance to really show what he can do. He took over at the worst possible time, no money whatsoever, massive debt, players that had totally given up, total loss of respect and sorely tried loyal supporters. We weren't even allowed the opportunity to get a boost from the new manager effect. I like Parky, always did and although I'm by no means optimistic that Parky or anyone else for that matter, can turn things around this season, I reckon he deserves a better press than he is getting.
[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]I wonder if our sense of history is obscuring some issues to be honest. We seem to still cling to the notion that we are a well run club based on sound financial judgements. It may well have been whilst Curbs, Richard Murray and Peter Varney were at the helm, but was it Curbs that was the lynch pin? The appointment of Dowie, Reed, and Pardew would however suggest that sound judgement is very much a thing of the past and we are now waking up to that realisation. I would suggest that Parky is being scapegoated for past errors, that he was frozen out by Pards and that he has never had a chance to really show what he can do. He took over at the worst possible time, no money whatsoever, massive debt, players that had totally given up, total loss of respect and sorely tried loyal supporters. We weren't even allowed the opportunity to get a boost from the new manager effect. I like Parky, always did and although I'm by no means optimistic that Parky or anyone else for that matter, can turn things around this season, I reckon he deserves a better press than he is getting.
We got used to being a Premier League club. We expected to be there for years after Curbs left. To be where we were for the Premier League years we had to spend Premier League money on wages and the club in general, the debts wouldn't be a problem if we were still a mid table club.
We went down and the club wasn't set up for the Championship.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]We got used to being a Premier League club. We expected to be there for years after Curbs left. To be where we were for the Premier League years we had to spend Premier League money on wages and the club in general, the debts wouldn't be a problem if we were still a mid table club.
We went down and the club wasn't set up for the Championship.
What Scoham said. Far too bright for Addickted this lad : - )
[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]I wonder if our sense of history is obscuring some issues to be honest. We seem to still cling to the notion that we are a well run club based on sound financial judgements. It may well have been whilst Curbs, Richard Murray and Peter Varney were at the helm, but was it Curbs that was the lynch pin? The appointment of Dowie, Reed, and Pardew would however suggest that sound judgement is very much a thing of the past and we are now waking up to that realisation. I would suggest that Parky is being scapegoated for past errors, that he was frozen out by Pards and that he has never had a chance to really show what he can do. He took over at the worst possible time, no money whatsoever, massive debt, players that had totally given up, total loss of respect and sorely tried loyal supporters. We weren't even allowed the opportunity to get a boost from the new manager effect. I like Parky, always did and although I'm by no means optimistic that Parky or anyone else for that matter, can turn things around this season, I reckon he deserves a better press than he is getting.
That's a good post, Stilladdicted ...... and says it as it is.
And Supaclive, your comments about Parky at Hull have been stripped of all context:
[cite]Posted By: supaclive[/cite] He had a squad at Hull that was in the relegation zone - Phil Brown came in, changed very little and got them promotion - so, ergo, Parkinson might be able to select a good squad but just might not be able to motivate them and tactically get it right in this division.
That's not pessimistic, it's not rose coloured specs, it's REALISTIC.
Sure, I agree that it didn't work out for him at Hull - but to be fair, he followed a Hull legend in Peter Taylor who'd rebuilt the club from bottom tier relegation escapees through 2 successive promotions, with basically the same players, before sodding off to Palace.
So Hull were needing rebuilding and the players were used to Taylor. Afyer Parky left, Phil Brown came in and got them promotion, yes - but not that same season. He had a little matter of a successful relegation fight to go through first. And the following close season, he signed plenty of new players himself to reshape the team how he wanted.
So need to diss Parky just because it suits your argument.
And anyhow, if you keep beating the drum as to how hopeless Charlton are, and how useless Parky is - then you'll be rewarded, mate. Life is a self-fulfilling prophecy and you'll get what you focus on. More gloom, despair and hopelessness.
Comments
Im just sick of the lies /spin .We now expect it from this Government but pisses me off when my fotie team start to do it .i feel we are truely going back to the BAD old days and BAd old ways both in football terms and in what the club tells us and treats us ----------------lets all hope im wrong.
we have to win 10 and draw 4 out of 17 possible games (forget the top 3 teams) signs of geting better can just f**k off we need wins.
I think that is right. It's called basic organisation, which it seemed desperate dan Pardew had completely gven up on at the end of his tenure. Still not sorted yet, mind. Not by a long chalk...
“If he stays, it will have to be that he is really up for it because I don’t want any disaffected players around the building.
“The mood in the camp and the way we are on the training pitch has got to be right. Hameur is a good lad and a very, very good professional.
“He has worked hard but probably would have liked to have produced more goals.
“His final ball probably could have been a bit better at times, but as a professional he has been fine"
That to me sounds like a very fair and honest assessment of Buzz based on what I've seen of him. In fact he's maybe being a bit generous to him as, at times, Buzz's attitude has seemed a little questionable. His criticisms are fair though, Buzz's set pieces and crossing are eratic and there were two guilt edge chances missed against Derby that really may have made all the difference to the way we'tre all feeling right now. All the same he's certainly not making out Buzz was a terrible player who won't be missed at all, but what can he say, if he made out like he was essential and we've no alternative what does that do for the morale of the other players, particularly the one's who will be asked to step up to the plate and compensate for Bouazza's absence in a must win game on Saturday?
I like the cut of Parky's jib and his face fits at the Valley in a way Pards never did, imo. That is of course small consolation without results, but it's not totally meaningless and I would say it gives me a bit more faith he might eventually turn it around and be a success here. The question is, how soon he can be that success, and will he be given enough time to realise the potential?
Pardew's signings were basically speculative and the majority never worked out. He also never built a solid defence ,where you must start.
Pards was here nearly 2 years and when he left, we still never had a decent solid fall back and only 2 centre halves. He should have done much better.
In a couple of months Parky has brought in McEverley who looks more solid than the other 2.
He has brought in Murtey who is more solid than Moo2.
He's trying to bring in Wayne Brown as a 3rd and essential centre half.
Now if only Pards had done this or something likewise.
Parky has not had the results, but he is trying to address the problems. If Pards was still in charge he would probably have got in another few wingers this window.
If you get the right players in, it should eventually come good. Let's wait and see.
He brought in Burton. Failure?
10 years ago he was a 25 goal a season man, fetched a 7-figure transfer fee and played in the Prem.
More recently, was a vital goal scoring striker in Sheff Weds Division 1 promotion push. Plays more of target man these days and good team player - but of course, people are expecting him to score a netful of goals - free scoring players tend to command a high price, don't forget. But he was brought in to strengthen a team role where only one player was capable at a time when the window was shut. Who else was available?
Can't agree with that at all I'm afraid. He was never a 25 goal a season man (look him up on Wikipedia, 25 goals in 5 years at Derby, 27 in 3 years for Wednesday. I certainly never expected him to score a netful of goals either, I'd be surprised if he got more than 3 by the end of the season. And if rumours are to be believed we beat Cheltenham to his signature - surely even in our dire situation we can do better than competing with League 1 relegation candidates for new players. Also, although Pardew brought in Waghorn, Parky extended the deal by another month. Why?! Are Dickson and McCleod really so bereft of any talent that we're better off playing an 18 year old boy?
The clincher - no wins in 9 games, probably 10 by tomorrow evening. The only way I'll warm to Parky is if he takes over at Palace and does a similar job.
It would appear so.
Without checking now, maybe I misread the stats if you say he scored 25 goals in 5 seasons for Derby - although to be fair, majority of those games for Derby would have been in the Prem?
My real point, though - was that Parky said if he can't play Gray, he had no other players who could hold the ball up front, or even play together, and Burton was available on loan while the transfer window was shut.
I'm not the manager, and my comments are based only on what Parky said and how Burton has performed in games for Charlton since.
I don't think he's been a terrible signing by any stretch, especially given our poistion and he does at least seem to fit in with the way we are trying to play, which is another area Parky has improved - we have a clear style of play at last, something we haven't had since Curbs left. Lets hope Parky can unearth the new Mendonca as well!
No worries, Mr Largo - it's just good honest debate and that's why we post on here. I believed the 'Parky is only caretaker' bit too - and was initially disappointed to find out that'd he'd been given the job.
But c'est la vie - so we might as well get behind him, and try to understand his way of thinking and what he is trying to do.
And he's already proved he is not Pardew's clone, he's trying to organise the side into a fighting team unit, instill a bit of backbone and pride in the shirt, and eliminate the imbalance and glaring weaknesses.
In short, he reminds me of a Charlton type manager in the Curbs and Lennie the Legend mould.
And at last, after 2 and a half years of 'cross your fingers and hope for the best' football - we are looking a bit better organised.
if only mate if only.
In Murty, Spring and Wayne Brown - and even Burton to an extent, I suppose - I can see a pattern that suggests Parky has a vision of the knd of team he thinks might get us out of this mess. Basically, he's looking for players who can put some proper backbone into the forlorn shambles he inherited (and which he presumably played some part in creating - but lets leave that to the history books for now).
As you say, some sense of coherent and rational organisation is emerging. Might not work and he has yet to win a game. But there are small and encouraging signs...
I guess we'll also never know how much involvement he had in signings, direction (ha, ha, ha) that Pardew wanted. By his current actions seems like he probably didn't have a lot. Everyone agrees Pardew had a massive ego, maybe he thought not even his assistant could help him.
My guess is Iwelumo, Mills, Halford - all were signed at Parky's behest.
Rocket science ....? Probably not. They all played under him previously.
I don't really understand that view, his team selection hasn't been that wrong, we really don't have many other options. He's now got the chance to change the squad a bit more, not just limited to short term loans. All people can argue is Dickson and Shelvey haven't been given a chance, and possibly McLeod.I can understand why he's not played any of them very much though.
Just saying no-one knows what he was involved in. People keep slagging him off that he was Pardews little lap-dog. Looks like from the type of players he's trying to bring in he may have different ideas. Not saying he's Bob Paisley or anything.
We do have twenty cup finals, as a fan I'm up for it, I won't give up until the maths are over.
If we win today, perhaps my opinion may change (a little), but currently - even though he's bringing in players to make us more stable and more difficult to beat - it doesn't mean he's going to be a successful manager here. He had a squad at Hull that was in the relegation zone - Phil Brown came in, changed very little and got them promotion - so, ergo, Parkinson might be able to select a good squad but just might not be able to motivate them and tactically get it right in this division.
And until we win some games, I am not able to change that opinion - whether he talks sense or not (and it's a refreshing change from Pardew), it still does not mean he's a good enough manager for our current situation.
That's not pessimistic, it's not rose coloured specs, it's REALISTIC.
Dont recall that sort of remark from the ego that was Pardew.
I dont think I have seen any words from Parky that I would describe as 'spin'. Just good honest straight talking about the situation as it is. Of course he needs to motivate players and fans as well so you would expect some words of encouragement.
I hope he gets the fans support 100% and that elusive win that could change things around so much comes today.
(note to self: must stop being so darned reasonable and agreeing with everybody...)
We got used to being a Premier League club. We expected to be there for years after Curbs left. To be where we were for the Premier League years we had to spend Premier League money on wages and the club in general, the debts wouldn't be a problem if we were still a mid table club.
We went down and the club wasn't set up for the Championship.
What Scoham said. Far too bright for Addickted this lad : - )
That's a good post, Stilladdicted ...... and says it as it is.
And Supaclive, your comments about Parky at Hull have been stripped of all context:
Sure, I agree that it didn't work out for him at Hull - but to be fair, he followed a Hull legend in Peter Taylor who'd rebuilt the club from bottom tier relegation escapees through 2 successive promotions, with basically the same players, before sodding off to Palace.
So Hull were needing rebuilding and the players were used to Taylor. Afyer Parky left, Phil Brown came in and got them promotion, yes - but not that same season. He had a little matter of a successful relegation fight to go through first. And the following close season, he signed plenty of new players himself to reshape the team how he wanted.
So need to diss Parky just because it suits your argument.
And anyhow, if you keep beating the drum as to how hopeless Charlton are, and how useless Parky is - then you'll be rewarded, mate. Life is a self-fulfilling prophecy and you'll get what you focus on. More gloom, despair and hopelessness.
Is that what you want?