[cite]Posted By: stubs1310[/cite]Ollie was a dead man walking when he joined Leicester, everyone knew they were doomed as there was too much interference from Mandric- Fergie never did Pards any favours and I have close family who are West Ham season tickets holders and close family who are Plymouth season ticket holders. The three West Ham ones would not welcome Pards back as he did the same there as he did with Charlton. However the five Plymouth ones would have Ollie back as he put them on a stable footing and left them in good shape, look where THEY are now in the Championship with less money than we have got/had. Also his dealings in the transfer market stand up to sructiny and his scouting network was impressive- Slyvan Ebanks-Blake was a great buy for them at a snip and look what he is doing now for Wolves. Parky is tainted as being part of Pards backroom boys- a fresh start with someone who is Charlton through and through on the backroom staff like Keith Peacock or Chris Powell would be very positive.
So Holloway couldn't turn LCFC around as they were doomed but he joined on 23 November. The Plymouth Chairman was also unhappy that Ollie has allowed a lot of high profile players to leave PAFC including Banks. He also fell out with the QPR board over wanting to join Leicester.
And while you mention how well Ebanks-Blake doing well at Wolves could that be due in part to his strike Partner who I would guess was recommended to Charlton by the man who managed him at Colchester. Phil someone, got then promoted twice as I remember.
So if Parky is tainted by Pards failure why is Holloway not tainted by Holloways failure?
And if we need a fresh start with someone Charlton thru and thru then why are you suggesting Holloway who has no connection to the club over Parky who does and who has already brought in Chapple and Kinsella to help him?
[cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]Im kind of the opinion that he hasnt done anything for me to really want him for the job or vice versa, too early.
However, the best option for the club is that he does well so I suppose option 2 is the closest.
Its sad that people choose option 3 after two games, almost willing him to fail. Sad.
Your assuming then that everyone who selected 3 is willing Charlton to lose, I selected 3 but do not want him to fail at all, more than happy for him to prove me wrong, I just think we need a completely new perspective on this from outside & a fairly big name at that.
You know what, when you take into account our last two performances and Parky's post match comments, I think he's the right man for the job on a perm basis.
I was all for Billy Davies taking the reigns but as someone else has said, we all thought Pardew was the Premiership manager that would take us forward - and look what happened there!
Parky's management style reminds me a lot of Curbs'.
Hard working, conscientious, tactical, forward thinking. The sort of qualities the club used to be renowned for.
[cite]Posted By: stubs1310[/cite].....and I have close family who are West Ham season tickets holders and close family who are Plymouth season ticket holders. The three West Ham ones would not welcome Pards back as he did the same there as he did with Charlton. However the five Plymouth ones would have Ollie back as he put them on a stable footing and left them in good shape, look where THEY are now in the Championship with less money than we have got/had. Also his dealings in the transfer market stand up to sructiny and his scouting network was impressive- Slyvan Ebanks-Blake was a great buy for them at a snip and look what he is doing now for Wolves.
That's interesting, Stubbsy.
I live down here in Oggyland and the place naturally pulses with Green-ness.
Amongst all the Argyle that I live amongst and work alongside, not one of them would have Ollie back.
Why? Because they don't trust him.
Neither would I but we shall see. I would expect him to be among those that have applied but that means little IMHO.
Parky still has to prove that he can have a real impact on results. He clearly has his own ideas on players and formations, he thinks about the game and he has experience. He was a midfield battler in the mode of Kinsella and is loved for that reason at Reading if you are looking for a fighter but......
[cite]Posted By: Valley11[/cite]Would a win at Blackpool change your mind Henry - or does he need to more than that?
Just out of interest, who would you like to see take the hot seat?
I like to see Parkinson get it as I think he has all the qualities from what I have seen of him but I think he needs to do more than just win at Blackpool.
Got a lot of time for him, he has his own views and has been a number one before so not a step into the unknown but he still has to show that he can string a few results together and get the team playing well consistently.
Not win every game necessarily but people will throw the "tainted by Pards" line at him until he does that. He's smart enough to have used Chapple and Kinsella and the "they know what it means to play for Charlton" line so I don't think he is naive to the fact that he has to build a rapport with the fans.
The big "what if" is we really don't know who else has applied, who has been approached and said "yes", "no" or "maybe" or which club is saying "no you can't approach our manager."
[cite]Posted By: yung2368[/cite]henry, do you live in that area too? maybe we can meet sometime.
He's got you there, Henry .....lol
Can't afford a posh area like East St Louis.
I live on a private estate in SE London called the Pepys Estate. Very posh but most of the locals are a bit thick and their attempts at wind up are very obvious and are sussed right from the off. You'd fit in well there Spanner boy.
In the minority. Will save us money, has brought in some decent players and has the team playing well together. Unless we go the next 5 games without a win he is the man.
Not sure, just have a slight worry he'll have a good start, then start struggling again, but it'll be too late as the board will appoint him as manager after 4 or 5 good games.
Most of the negatives against Parkinson are repeats of what was said about Curbs and Gritt and Curbs a few years after.
We are scarred by Curbishleys successors – Dowie, Reed, who was a great coach, who should never have been given the reigns and Pardew, who we all thought would be our saviour, only to find out “He was not the messiah, he’s just a crap manager”. Of those three successors, I would forgive Les Reed, the wrong man, at the wrong time, in the wrong place but if Dowie brought our house down with poor signings and inept management, Pardew has destroyed the foundations of the club. Dowies £11 m spend in the Prem, was then enough money to allow us to tread water at mid table, but for Pards to spend the same and leaving the club staring relegation in the face then he has been profligate and criminal with our funds, hiding behind his media spin.
Some are calling for a name and lets assume that a name would come to us, presumably out of work at the moment, why would they come to a small, moneyless 2 tier outfit like us, how would that enhance their reputation and if they did come and they did succeed, how long would they stay? We can’t afford a name, either their wages or their desire to build another new team. There is big Sam and we do not have a hope of getting him on reasonable wages or with a commitment for the future, his sole reason to come to us would be to get back in the game and get offered a better job soon after – a bit like Gary Megson at Leicester. An alternative is Billy Davies, but he accepted before and then did not have the courtesy to let the club know he had changed his mind. I feel that there is still a bitter taste in the mouth of the board. Let’s not forget that having got promotion with Reading and West Ham and been four minutes away from being an FA Cup winning manager Pardew was a name.
A return for Curbishley? He along with Minty constructed arguably the most successful Charlton era of all time (Lennie and Jimmy Seed can argue that),but I am a firm believer of never going back. I look at Howard Kendall and how sour his return to Everton ended up. For Curbs, who must feel hard done by, to come back to us would kill any ambition of established Prem. Management, for Curbs there are challenges that he has yet to meet before he would consider any involvement with a tier two club.
So that leaves us with the untried and the untested and because we have no money for compensation, the unemployed.
Or Phil Parkinson he has had two jobs in football management, in the first he got promotion with Colchester and was, at the end of that season, refused permission to talk to Charlton, a premiership club for their vacant position, then he joined Hull tier two, but this did not go as well and before the season was half through he had lost his job. That’s not a bad thing for a young manager, you learn a lot through adversity. He became a coach and turned down a position of manager with a Huddersfield club to retain his coaching role (and an increase in salary).
Unfortunately, for PP he is tainted with Pardews reputation and has to pick up his legacy. There is no doubt that PP has contributed to some of this situation, you cannot be in the management team without having some influence, but to what extent he was a contributor and what extent he was a dissenter we do not know. What we know is that he has more experience than Curbs had when he and Gritt took over, he even has a successful promotion campaign to his name, he has come in and made the team his own within a very short period of time. Watching on Saturday, we had shape and purpose and commitment, three characteristics that Pardews team lacked. He put out a team that kept a clean sheet, a rare feat indeed these days, he seems to have the players on his side and that maybe is where pards went wrong, he seemed to have lost the players, but never really realised it. At the moment he has done nothing to disappoint me, I came out of the valley for the first time in ages excited and exhilarated by our performance. For those that say “We did not win”, no we did not, but for an outstanding goalkeeping performance and we looked like we could, it is not often we have said and thought that.
It is a difficult week ahead for PP, another away game in the killing fields of the North West, he has to develop the players fitness, witness the decline in energy levels after the 1st half, keep the morale up and instil steel grit and determination, it’s a hard task wether you are a name, a curbishley or a Parkinson, I have a sneaking feeling he has the ability to do, I am just not sure he has the time.
On the "tainted" point I wonder when people say this what they mean?
Tainted in those fans eyes certainly but how much does that matter? Any reasonable fan will forget that if he starts winning a few games.
Tainted in the eyes of the board? Perhaps they too feel that he could have been too close to Pardew and will have Les Reed in their minds. But they have given him a chance, or so it seems to me at least, to show what he can do and push himself into contention while they take their time to see what the options are. And as you have said Kap there ain't a lot.
Tainted in the eyes of the players? This is crucial. Reed never seemed to get the players backing, leading to the shameful performance by the players v Wycombe. But the players seem to have responded to Parkinson. I'm not convinced that Pardew "lost the dressing room" but perhaps a clearer direction for Parky and a consistent team selection will win Parky more confidence from the squad.
Or at least the players who are playing. Those who aren't now in the 16 will be less than happy with Parky but would that not be the case regardless and now at least they may feel that they have a chance to impress the new boss.
And their is no guarentee that players would respond to another boss coming in. Curbs or big Sam would have their reputations and track records but who else would instantly command respect? Not many I suspect.
Thoughtful post, Kap - the important thing is the team are looking professionally organised, playing for each other and also Parky's own management team. At last we look like a football team again - credit to Parky.
Rome wasn't built in a day, so it's not realistic to expect instant transformation to a confident promotion chasing side.
Miracles are usually the province of Biblical type characters.
In fact, our Rome's been sacked and burning for 12 months now and as a firefighting exercise, Parky is already showing decent strategy and player motivation.
Seeing the state of the playing side after the Sheff Utd match, what else more would a so-called 'big name' manager realistically achieve inside a week?
Unfortunately - we can't wait for the team's fortunes to turn around for too long as we need to win half of the games we have left to stay up .... or at least get another 36 points from 20 games ...!
I am happy for the Board to give him some time to prove himself and voted 2.
If I was a Board member, and during the current inter-regnum period, I would want to be as certain as I can (no guarantee of course) that he is not just going to keep us away from Div 1, but that he is going to take us up the league towards the play offs. Given the past couple of years, I think that for fans to keep coming in similar numbers as they have, there has to be a feeling that we are "on the up" and next season may see us challenging for promotion.
A "suvival" season seeing us only just staying up will not be enough. If Parky doesn't show that he is the man to do this, then I'd push the boat out as far as possible and buy in the most qualified experienced manager we can afford.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite] If Parky doesn't show that he is the man to do this, then I'd push the boat out as far as possible and buy in the most qualified experienced manager we can afford.
Parky is the most qualified experienced manager we can afford.
[cite]Posted By: Chirpy Red[/cite]Just to put you all in the picture-AGAIN:
PP has the job till at least the end of the season.
AC was interested but we weren't.
Who did you learn this from, Chirpy? *raises eyebrow*
Comments
So Holloway couldn't turn LCFC around as they were doomed but he joined on 23 November. The Plymouth Chairman was also unhappy that Ollie has allowed a lot of high profile players to leave PAFC including Banks. He also fell out with the QPR board over wanting to join Leicester.
And while you mention how well Ebanks-Blake doing well at Wolves could that be due in part to his strike Partner who I would guess was recommended to Charlton by the man who managed him at Colchester. Phil someone, got then promoted twice as I remember.
So if Parky is tainted by Pards failure why is Holloway not tainted by Holloways failure?
And if we need a fresh start with someone Charlton thru and thru then why are you suggesting Holloway who has no connection to the club over Parky who does and who has already brought in Chapple and Kinsella to help him?
Your assuming then that everyone who selected 3 is willing Charlton to lose, I selected 3 but do not want him to fail at all, more than happy for him to prove me wrong, I just think we need a completely new perspective on this from outside & a fairly big name at that.
No need to apologise
And mine ;o)
I was all for Billy Davies taking the reigns but as someone else has said, we all thought Pardew was the Premiership manager that would take us forward - and look what happened there!
Parky's management style reminds me a lot of Curbs'.
Hard working, conscientious, tactical, forward thinking. The sort of qualities the club used to be renowned for.
Plus he knows the players.
That's interesting, Stubbsy.
I live down here in Oggyland and the place naturally pulses with Green-ness.
Amongst all the Argyle that I live amongst and work alongside, not one of them would have Ollie back.
Why? Because they don't trust him.
Parky still has to prove that he can have a real impact on results. He clearly has his own ideas on players and formations, he thinks about the game and he has experience. He was a midfield battler in the mode of Kinsella and is loved for that reason at Reading if you are looking for a fighter but......
He just hasn't earned it yet, baby.
Hope he does but still got work to do in my eyes.
Just out of interest, who would you like to see take the hot seat?
I like to see Parkinson get it as I think he has all the qualities from what I have seen of him but I think he needs to do more than just win at Blackpool.
Got a lot of time for him, he has his own views and has been a number one before so not a step into the unknown but he still has to show that he can string a few results together and get the team playing well consistently.
Not win every game necessarily but people will throw the "tainted by Pards" line at him until he does that. He's smart enough to have used Chapple and Kinsella and the "they know what it means to play for Charlton" line so I don't think he is naive to the fact that he has to build a rapport with the fans.
The big "what if" is we really don't know who else has applied, who has been approached and said "yes", "no" or "maybe" or which club is saying "no you can't approach our manager."
And my question is where do you live in Illinois? Why so secretive?
Is that St Louis or East St Louis?
And tell me. How do they pronounce St Louis in St Louis?
He's got you there, Henry .....lol
Can't afford a posh area like East St Louis.
I live on a private estate in SE London called the Pepys Estate. Very posh but most of the locals are a bit thick and their attempts at wind up are very obvious and are sussed right from the off. You'd fit in well there Spanner boy.
You've been sussed. Why are you carrying on?
Are you thick or something?
Oh yeah I forgot you are a Millwall fan. How could you not be.
In the minority. Will save us money, has brought in some decent players and has the team playing well together. Unless we go the next 5 games without a win he is the man.
We are scarred by Curbishleys successors – Dowie, Reed, who was a great coach, who should never have been given the reigns and Pardew, who we all thought would be our saviour, only to find out “He was not the messiah, he’s just a crap manager”. Of those three successors, I would forgive Les Reed, the wrong man, at the wrong time, in the wrong place but if Dowie brought our house down with poor signings and inept management, Pardew has destroyed the foundations of the club. Dowies £11 m spend in the Prem, was then enough money to allow us to tread water at mid table, but for Pards to spend the same and leaving the club staring relegation in the face then he has been profligate and criminal with our funds, hiding behind his media spin.
Some are calling for a name and lets assume that a name would come to us, presumably out of work at the moment, why would they come to a small, moneyless 2 tier outfit like us, how would that enhance their reputation and if they did come and they did succeed, how long would they stay? We can’t afford a name, either their wages or their desire to build another new team. There is big Sam and we do not have a hope of getting him on reasonable wages or with a commitment for the future, his sole reason to come to us would be to get back in the game and get offered a better job soon after – a bit like Gary Megson at Leicester. An alternative is Billy Davies, but he accepted before and then did not have the courtesy to let the club know he had changed his mind. I feel that there is still a bitter taste in the mouth of the board. Let’s not forget that having got promotion with Reading and West Ham and been four minutes away from being an FA Cup winning manager Pardew was a name.
A return for Curbishley? He along with Minty constructed arguably the most successful Charlton era of all time (Lennie and Jimmy Seed can argue that),but I am a firm believer of never going back. I look at Howard Kendall and how sour his return to Everton ended up. For Curbs, who must feel hard done by, to come back to us would kill any ambition of established Prem. Management, for Curbs there are challenges that he has yet to meet before he would consider any involvement with a tier two club.
So that leaves us with the untried and the untested and because we have no money for compensation, the unemployed.
Or Phil Parkinson he has had two jobs in football management, in the first he got promotion with Colchester and was, at the end of that season, refused permission to talk to Charlton, a premiership club for their vacant position, then he joined Hull tier two, but this did not go as well and before the season was half through he had lost his job. That’s not a bad thing for a young manager, you learn a lot through adversity. He became a coach and turned down a position of manager with a Huddersfield club to retain his coaching role (and an increase in salary).
Unfortunately, for PP he is tainted with Pardews reputation and has to pick up his legacy. There is no doubt that PP has contributed to some of this situation, you cannot be in the management team without having some influence, but to what extent he was a contributor and what extent he was a dissenter we do not know. What we know is that he has more experience than Curbs had when he and Gritt took over, he even has a successful promotion campaign to his name, he has come in and made the team his own within a very short period of time. Watching on Saturday, we had shape and purpose and commitment, three characteristics that Pardews team lacked. He put out a team that kept a clean sheet, a rare feat indeed these days, he seems to have the players on his side and that maybe is where pards went wrong, he seemed to have lost the players, but never really realised it. At the moment he has done nothing to disappoint me, I came out of the valley for the first time in ages excited and exhilarated by our performance. For those that say “We did not win”, no we did not, but for an outstanding goalkeeping performance and we looked like we could, it is not often we have said and thought that.
It is a difficult week ahead for PP, another away game in the killing fields of the North West, he has to develop the players fitness, witness the decline in energy levels after the 1st half, keep the morale up and instil steel grit and determination, it’s a hard task wether you are a name, a curbishley or a Parkinson, I have a sneaking feeling he has the ability to do, I am just not sure he has the time.
On the "tainted" point I wonder when people say this what they mean?
Tainted in those fans eyes certainly but how much does that matter? Any reasonable fan will forget that if he starts winning a few games.
Tainted in the eyes of the board? Perhaps they too feel that he could have been too close to Pardew and will have Les Reed in their minds. But they have given him a chance, or so it seems to me at least, to show what he can do and push himself into contention while they take their time to see what the options are. And as you have said Kap there ain't a lot.
Tainted in the eyes of the players? This is crucial. Reed never seemed to get the players backing, leading to the shameful performance by the players v Wycombe. But the players seem to have responded to Parkinson. I'm not convinced that Pardew "lost the dressing room" but perhaps a clearer direction for Parky and a consistent team selection will win Parky more confidence from the squad.
Or at least the players who are playing. Those who aren't now in the 16 will be less than happy with Parky but would that not be the case regardless and now at least they may feel that they have a chance to impress the new boss.
And their is no guarentee that players would respond to another boss coming in. Curbs or big Sam would have their reputations and track records but who else would instantly command respect? Not many I suspect.
Rome wasn't built in a day, so it's not realistic to expect instant transformation to a confident promotion chasing side.
Miracles are usually the province of Biblical type characters.
In fact, our Rome's been sacked and burning for 12 months now and as a firefighting exercise, Parky is already showing decent strategy and player motivation.
Seeing the state of the playing side after the Sheff Utd match, what else more would a so-called 'big name' manager realistically achieve inside a week?
If I was a Board member, and during the current inter-regnum period, I would want to be as certain as I can (no guarantee of course) that he is not just going to keep us away from Div 1, but that he is going to take us up the league towards the play offs. Given the past couple of years, I think that for fans to keep coming in similar numbers as they have, there has to be a feeling that we are "on the up" and next season may see us challenging for promotion.
A "suvival" season seeing us only just staying up will not be enough. If Parky doesn't show that he is the man to do this, then I'd push the boat out as far as possible and buy in the most qualified experienced manager we can afford.
PP has the job till at least the end of the season.
AC was interested but we weren't.
Parky is the most qualified experienced manager we can afford.
;o)
Who did you learn this from, Chirpy? *raises eyebrow*
kap 10 spot on.