So Lukey can't hit a barn door at the moment ...... but even the best strikers go through periods like that.
Important thing, as every striker will tell you, is you have be in the right place at the right time to get the chances.
If Varns is missing chances, then at least he's in the right place at the right time - and the law of averages will dictate that he'll put a proportionate number away over the course of the season.
The other thing - and not to be discounted - is while Varns is charging all over the pitch, he is drawing defenders to him, pulling their team shape apart, resulting in desperate tackles in dangerous area and creating space for others to exploit.
That's 5 goals in 6 matches the front pairing has got so far in combination.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Even if he's not scoring goals, he may not get the credit (evidently so) but his manager and team mates will appreciate his contribution - even if some supporters don't see it.
Oggy Red you will be pleased to learn that I have got over my myopia and in the immortal words of Johnny Nash "I Can See Clearly Now".
All I would say in response to the "if it ain't fixed" is that the top scorers in our division (18 as against our 9) have rotated all 4 of their strikers one of which (Sam Vokes) has scored 3 in his last 2 games and prior to that was no more proven at this level than Dickson.
So, to sum up, all I am saying is that we MAY have a proven goalscorer in our ranks AND that whilst the last thing I want to see is wholesale changes, there must come a time when we have to give the guy a chance - 4 defeats every 7 games and an average of 1.285 goals per game is not going to get us promoted.
PS I really do hope that Varney and Gray do get 40 goals between them because that will not only mean that we are in the "shake up" at the end of the season but one of them might then actually be top Championship goalscorer which will in turn help my bank balance no end - always assuming there are such things as banks still in existence at that time.
My dream combo up front would actually be Gray & Dicko together, with Varns nominally on the wing but given a free role to 'play as if you're in the playground'.
Last season, Pards said that to him once before one game - and he scored twice, totally shredding a certain Mark Hudson.
Weird that for someone who seems to struggle a bit with pressure that Varney played so well in the Cauldron of the Palace game.
The more I think about it the more I like the idea of Toddy playing slightly off Gray. Bit slow maybe but I think it'd help get the wingers into the game more and with ZZ or Ambrose central and Sam and Buzz or perhaps Varney on the wing we've got lots of pace in midfield to help compensate for a bit of a lack of it up front.
In my mind Gray and Toddy could be a bit like Hunt and Mendonca, with one target man type who's a threat from crosses and one who likes to come bit deeper and play with his back to goal but is also something of a goal poacher.
No matter what a few think, Varney is a centre forward albeit a Nelsonesque forward but he is a centre forward.
He will get us goals, he is not a winger.
His work rate is second to none, he is decent in the air especially for his height and he is poxy to mark I would bet a lot of centre halves would say. Gray is doing his thing in making the ball stick (which only him and Todorov can do) and with Varney pulling defenders out of position he is given a lot more space than should be afforded to him in the penalty area.
If he is dropped for Dickson he would be within his rights to ask to leave.
Harsh Carter as better players than Varney have been dropped and not thrown their toys out of the pram. Equally, if he is and Dickson gets 20 plus goals for us he would have no grounds for complaint.
Having said that I would still have no worries about a Varney/Dickson partnership particularly from the perspective that Varney's movement is better than Gray's. I just think that there comes a time when you've got to bite the bullet and it would be a shame if that happened when our season was all but over(at Christmas a la Curbs for example).
I don't think you can say Varney is going through a period when his finishing is off-colour. If so it's one that stretches back to August last year when he made his debut for us.
The fact is he has a lot of attributes but his finishing isn't up to scratch. He lacks composure in front of goal, often either blazing high, wide and handsome or screwing his shots past the post.
FOr me he simply doesn't hit the target enough given the number of opportunities he is presented each match.
If you at least hit the target, then even if your shot is weak or mis-hit or straight at the keeper there's always the chance of a goalie blooper and the right end product
And that kinveach is, indeed, the difference between a natual finisher and a forward. Dare I mention the word Defoe? Notwithstanding his lack of loyalty to all the clubs he's ever played for would we really be debating whether or not he should be in the team?
We don't know how good Dickson really is and whether he will get anywhere near the likes of Defoe. All I would say is that I was told by the Manager of a team that played against him (albeit half a dozen divisions removed from the Championship) that he is the best player he has ever encountered but that the guy knows it. That touch of arrogance can be a good thing especially when it comes to taking chances because there is an inherent ability to put a missed one behind you. I'm not sure that Varney has that and his work ethic, admirable as it is, is not the solution to a poor goal/chance ratio.
Varney has had almost 50 appearances to prove that he has the ability to get us goals and in that time has he mustered just 9. Does anyone here seriously believe that we paid £2 million for his work ethic and that scoring goals would be a bonus?
£50K well spent in my opinion. He may not have been a natural goal scorer and division two (old money) was the summit of his ability, but he knew he was lucky to be playing the game and never sulked if things didn't go his way. In those days when we had just returned to the Valley and still had no money to pick up a great team player like Garry Nelson who could score and create a few goals was priceless to the development of the club. An unsung hero.
So what if Varney has only scored 9 goals in almost 50 appearances (although not all would be starts), it's what he brings to the overall team function. If Varney only scored that one goal all season, if he's making a major contribution and being a vital cog in a winning team, Pards will consider the player is doing a good job.
In anycase, in a winning team others will be scoring the goals that might not be scored without Varney's attacking play and work ethic creating those chances.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Varney may only have scored one goal but has created two penalties this season, if he was our penalty taker, he'd now be the top scorer.
Using my fingers, that would put Gray on 2 goals and Varney on 3 - so okay.
But it's easy to lose your nerve taking a penalty ..... and Gray looks cool, composed and accomplished (Mendonca style) when taking a penalty.So leave Gray to take pens.
If Varns had taken Gray's pens but missed, you might find that Varns still had only the 1 goal - and Gray still leading goalscorer, but with only 2 instead of 4 to his name ....(!)
"In anycase, in a winning team others will be scoring the goals that might not be scored without Varney's attacking play and work ethic creating those chances." We have actually lost more than we've won this season including two games at home.
"Varney may only have scored one goal but has created two penalties this season, if he was our penalty taker, he'd now be the top scorer." The assumption there is, of course, that he would have scored!
As you say Oggy it is all about opinions and I repeat I will be more than happy to be proven wrong.
I can't comment with regards to today's game as I wasn't there. However, "lies damn lies and statisitics" say that we have failed to score more than one goal in 7 ot our last 8 competitive games. By contrast, Wolves have scored at least two goals in all their League games this season and Reading have netted 16 in 4 at home. So, is it that we're missing chances, is it that we're not creating them or a combination of the two?
I have been a "champion" of Dickson in the last few weeks and was, naturally, disappoointed to see that he didn't even make the bench today. Whilst I am fully behind Pards I'd love to know why he doesn't rate him good enough to even make the squad. After all, Toddy is not the answer when it comes to adding pace to the side but the introduction of the two of them (even keeping Varney on and changing to 4-3-3) might just have made the difference. All the time he's sitting in Row Z in the stand we're never going to know.
Make that 8 of the last 9 games we've failed to score more than one goal. As the saying goes "If you do what you've always done you'll get what you always got".
As much as the introduction of Toddy to the 16 is a plus all the time we start with a formation of 4-5-1 there will only be room for a maximum of two strikers on the bench and at the moment that isn't Dickson.
Our wide men simply aren't creative enough which means that we have to switch to either play through the opposition (perhaps with a 4-3-3 set up) or lump it forward for a big man/small man combo or a combination of the two. Dickson has the ability and pace to get in behind the opposition, as to whether he then makes the most of the opportunities only time will tell - providing, of course, he gets that chance and isn't offloaded again to "get some more experience".
I wonder how long it took for Steve Coppell to give Ian Wright a go. Yes, that's the Steve Coppell who manages a side that has scored 30 goals this season in 10 games. God we must have caught them on a bad day.
"If you do what you've always done you get what you always got".
So, here are the updated stats:
(1) We have scored 12 goals in 12 games (including the Carling Cup match) (2) No player has scored mpre than 2 goals in open play (3) We have failed to score more than one goal in 9 of our 12 games (4) We haven't scored in 8 of our last 11 away games
I also think it is now obvious to all and sundry that there are two things inherently wrong:
(1) The tactics and shape of the team - we are far too negative and Pards seems to think he is George Graham reincarnated. It is a lot easier to achieve a 1-0 result when you have Seaman in goal and a back four made up of Dixon, Winterburn, Keown & Adams. We aren't that lucky and indeed, somewhat ironically, we are the complete opposite in that we do have full backs who can get forward but aren't much cop at defending.
(2) Personnel - it seems rather evident that Pards either doesn't rate Dickson or he has fallen out with him. You simply don't keep a player who finishes as well as he does in the stiffs if you believe that person can bring something to the party.
Pards made more changes last season from one game to the next than he has all this season. I would venture to suggest that now is the time to find the happy medium and bring in players who are hungry to wear the shirt and who might also offer something different to what we have witnessed to date - GOALS!
Todorov did "bring something different to the party", to the extent that it was almost as if he was the missing link - however, he didn't want to know about 50/50s and for the time being at least we will have to accept that this may be a deficiency in his game.
Varney continues to play as if he is scared rigid when he gets anywhere near goal - there were times in the first half when he chose to "offload" rather than shoot and when he did get the gilt edged opprotunities he simply tried too hard to score.
The comment about Dickson ("Pards either doesn't rate Dickson or he has fallen out with him"), by virtue of McCleod leapfrogging him in the pecking order, clearly applies. I genuinely feel sorry for the kid and hope that we don't sell him before he gets an opportunity.
The jury is still out on McCleod. The fact that he was taken off at half time suggests that he either wasn't fit enough or he wasn't doing what he should have been doing.
Gray may still have a part to play especially when Pards plays his tried and tested 4-5-1 away from home though the fact that that has resulted in just 4 goals in 11 matches would suggest that he should now try a more adventurous game plan.
McLeod was always going to leap frog Dickson unless Dickson made the starting line or scored a few coming off the bench. McLeod was purchased with serious money and, although we've not seen anything like his best, Pards will want to see him in the team before Chris.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]McLeod was always going to leap frog Dickson unless Dickson made the starting line or scored a few coming off the bench. McLeod was purchased with serious money and, although we've not seen anything like his best, Pards will want to see him in the team before Chris.
Have to agree with that but it doesn't make it right. McCleod scored 54 in 105 starts in League 1 and League 2 playing for M K Dons. Dickson scored 11 in 11 starts for Gillingham last season. Small sample admittedly but I'm not sure the price tag and the vindication that money is well spent is a justification for not having given Dickson a start.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Todorov did "bring something different to the party", to the extent that it was almost as if he was the missing link - however, he didn't want to know about 50/50s and for the time being at least we will have to accept that this may be a deficiency in his game.
Varney continues to play as if he is scared rigid when he gets anywhere near goal - there were times in the first half when he chose to "offload" rather than shoot and when he did get the gilt edged opprotunities he simply tried too hard to score.
The comment about Dickson ("Pards either doesn't rate Dickson or he has fallen out with him"), by virtue of McCleod leapfrogging him in the pecking order, clearly applies. I genuinely feel sorry for the kid and hope that we don't sell him before he gets an opportunity.
The jury is still out on McCleod. The fact that he was taken off at half time suggests that he either wasn't fit enough or he wasn't doing what he should have been doing.
Gray may still have a part to play especially when Pards plays his tried and tested 4-5-1 away from home though the fact that that has resulted in just 4 goals in 11 matches would suggest that he should now try a more adventurous game plan.
I agree with most of that other that the "fallen out with him" bit. This is trotted out whenever a player isn't played. Maybe Pardew feels that Mcleod is better than Dickson or just doesn't rate Chris.
I though McLeod did OK in the first half and hope that he was just taken off due to lackof match fitness after a long time out as he was better than Varney.
Toddy is class. Full stop. He is never going to win sprints or hard tackles but his brain and his feet are better than just about any other player at the club IMHO. He also has an impressive goal scoring record.
Spot on Henners. Toddy when fit has to play a part. I personally would start him and sub him later. Not really an impact player of the bench imho. Apart from yesterday ;-)
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]Spot on Henners. Toddy when fit has to play a part. I personally would start him and sub him later. Not really an impact player of the bench imho. Apart from yesterday ;-)
And Selhurst last season : - ) but agree. Play the class you have.
Comments
Or to be fair Varney and Gray then shift around on 60th minute if needs be to Dickson and Toddy
Important thing, as every striker will tell you, is you have be in the right place at the right time to get the chances.
If Varns is missing chances, then at least he's in the right place at the right time - and the law of averages will dictate that he'll put a proportionate number away over the course of the season.
The other thing - and not to be discounted - is while Varns is charging all over the pitch, he is drawing defenders to him, pulling their team shape apart, resulting in desperate tackles in dangerous area and creating space for others to exploit.
That's 5 goals in 6 matches the front pairing has got so far in combination.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Even if he's not scoring goals, he may not get the credit (evidently so) but his manager and team mates will appreciate his contribution - even if some supporters don't see it.
All I would say in response to the "if it ain't fixed" is that the top scorers in our division (18 as against our 9) have rotated all 4 of their strikers one of which (Sam Vokes) has scored 3 in his last 2 games and prior to that was no more proven at this level than Dickson.
So, to sum up, all I am saying is that we MAY have a proven goalscorer in our ranks AND that whilst the last thing I want to see is wholesale changes, there must come a time when we have to give the guy a chance - 4 defeats every 7 games and an average of 1.285 goals per game is not going to get us promoted.
PS I really do hope that Varney and Gray do get 40 goals between them because that will not only mean that we are in the "shake up" at the end of the season but one of them might then actually be top Championship goalscorer which will in turn help my bank balance no end - always assuming there are such things as banks still in existence at that time.
My dream combo up front would actually be Gray & Dicko together, with Varns nominally on the wing but given a free role to 'play as if you're in the playground'.
Last season, Pards said that to him once before one game - and he scored twice, totally shredding a certain Mark Hudson.
The more I think about it the more I like the idea of Toddy playing slightly off Gray. Bit slow maybe but I think it'd help get the wingers into the game more and with ZZ or Ambrose central and Sam and Buzz or perhaps Varney on the wing we've got lots of pace in midfield to help compensate for a bit of a lack of it up front.
In my mind Gray and Toddy could be a bit like Hunt and Mendonca, with one target man type who's a threat from crosses and one who likes to come bit deeper and play with his back to goal but is also something of a goal poacher.
He will get us goals, he is not a winger.
His work rate is second to none, he is decent in the air especially for his height and he is poxy to mark I would bet a lot of centre halves would say. Gray is doing his thing in making the ball stick (which only him and Todorov can do) and with Varney pulling defenders out of position he is given a lot more space than should be afforded to him in the penalty area.
If he is dropped for Dickson he would be within his rights to ask to leave.
Having said that I would still have no worries about a Varney/Dickson partnership particularly from the perspective that Varney's movement is better than Gray's. I just think that there comes a time when you've got to bite the bullet and it would be a shame if that happened when our season was all but over(at Christmas a la Curbs for example).
The fact is he has a lot of attributes but his finishing isn't up to scratch. He lacks composure in front of goal, often either blazing high, wide and handsome or screwing his shots past the post.
FOr me he simply doesn't hit the target enough given the number of opportunities he is presented each match.
If you at least hit the target, then even if your shot is weak or mis-hit or straight at the keeper there's always the chance of a goalie blooper and the right end product
We don't know how good Dickson really is and whether he will get anywhere near the likes of Defoe. All I would say is that I was told by the Manager of a team that played against him (albeit half a dozen divisions removed from the Championship) that he is the best player he has ever encountered but that the guy knows it. That touch of arrogance can be a good thing especially when it comes to taking chances because there is an inherent ability to put a missed one behind you. I'm not sure that Varney has that and his work ethic, admirable as it is, is not the solution to a poor goal/chance ratio.
Varney has had almost 50 appearances to prove that he has the ability to get us goals and in that time has he mustered just 9. Does anyone here seriously believe that we paid £2 million for his work ethic and that scoring goals would be a bonus?
In anycase, in a winning team others will be scoring the goals that might not be scored without Varney's attacking play and work ethic creating those chances.
Using my fingers, that would put Gray on 2 goals and Varney on 3 - so okay.
But it's easy to lose your nerve taking a penalty ..... and Gray looks cool, composed and accomplished (Mendonca style) when taking a penalty.So leave Gray to take pens.
If Varns had taken Gray's pens but missed, you might find that Varns still had only the 1 goal - and Gray still leading goalscorer, but with only 2 instead of 4 to his name ....(!)
We have actually lost more than we've won this season including two games at home.
"Varney may only have scored one goal but has created two penalties this season, if he was our penalty taker, he'd now be the top scorer." The assumption there is, of course, that he would have scored!
As you say Oggy it is all about opinions and I repeat I will be more than happy to be proven wrong.
;o)
I have been a "champion" of Dickson in the last few weeks and was, naturally, disappoointed to see that he didn't even make the bench today. Whilst I am fully behind Pards I'd love to know why he doesn't rate him good enough to even make the squad. After all, Toddy is not the answer when it comes to adding pace to the side but the introduction of the two of them (even keeping Varney on and changing to 4-3-3) might just have made the difference. All the time he's sitting in Row Z in the stand we're never going to know.
As much as the introduction of Toddy to the 16 is a plus all the time we start with a formation of 4-5-1 there will only be room for a maximum of two strikers on the bench and at the moment that isn't Dickson.
Our wide men simply aren't creative enough which means that we have to switch to either play through the opposition (perhaps with a 4-3-3 set up) or lump it forward for a big man/small man combo or a combination of the two. Dickson has the ability and pace to get in behind the opposition, as to whether he then makes the most of the opportunities only time will tell - providing, of course, he gets that chance and isn't offloaded again to "get some more experience".
I wonder how long it took for Steve Coppell to give Ian Wright a go. Yes, that's the Steve Coppell who manages a side that has scored 30 goals this season in 10 games. God we must have caught them on a bad day.
Says it all.
So, here are the updated stats:
(1) We have scored 12 goals in 12 games (including the Carling Cup match)
(2) No player has scored mpre than 2 goals in open play
(3) We have failed to score more than one goal in 9 of our 12 games
(4) We haven't scored in 8 of our last 11 away games
I also think it is now obvious to all and sundry that there are two things inherently wrong:
(1) The tactics and shape of the team - we are far too negative and Pards seems to think he is George Graham reincarnated. It is a lot easier to achieve a 1-0 result when you have Seaman in goal and a back four made up of Dixon, Winterburn, Keown & Adams. We aren't that lucky and indeed, somewhat ironically, we are the complete opposite in that we do have full backs who can get forward but aren't much cop at defending.
(2) Personnel - it seems rather evident that Pards either doesn't rate Dickson or he has fallen out with him. You simply don't keep a player who finishes as well as he does in the stiffs if you believe that person can bring something to the party.
Pards made more changes last season from one game to the next than he has all this season. I would venture to suggest that now is the time to find the happy medium and bring in players who are hungry to wear the shirt and who might also offer something different to what we have witnessed to date - GOALS!
Varney continues to play as if he is scared rigid when he gets anywhere near goal - there were times in the first half when he chose to "offload" rather than shoot and when he did get the gilt edged opprotunities he simply tried too hard to score.
The comment about Dickson ("Pards either doesn't rate Dickson or he has fallen out with him"), by virtue of McCleod leapfrogging him in the pecking order, clearly applies. I genuinely feel sorry for the kid and hope that we don't sell him before he gets an opportunity.
The jury is still out on McCleod. The fact that he was taken off at half time suggests that he either wasn't fit enough or he wasn't doing what he should have been doing.
Gray may still have a part to play especially when Pards plays his tried and tested 4-5-1 away from home though the fact that that has resulted in just 4 goals in 11 matches would suggest that he should now try a more adventurous game plan.
Have to agree with that but it doesn't make it right. McCleod scored 54 in 105 starts in League 1 and League 2 playing for M K Dons. Dickson scored 11 in 11 starts for Gillingham last season. Small sample admittedly but I'm not sure the price tag and the vindication that money is well spent is a justification for not having given Dickson a start.
I agree with most of that other that the "fallen out with him" bit. This is trotted out whenever a player isn't played. Maybe Pardew feels that Mcleod is better than Dickson or just doesn't rate Chris.
I though McLeod did OK in the first half and hope that he was just taken off due to lackof match fitness after a long time out as he was better than Varney.
Toddy is class. Full stop. He is never going to win sprints or hard tackles but his brain and his feet are better than just about any other player at the club IMHO. He also has an impressive goal scoring record.
And Selhurst last season : - ) but agree. Play the class you have.