[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]and right on queue, the Spurs fan in the office comes over and say 'do you reckon you'll go back in for Curbishley?'
any one else had that this morning ?
Yep, I had it from one this morning!
him: You reckon Curbs will go back to you?
Me: I didnt know you were an "IRON"
him: been going for years!!
me: oh really where'd you sit
him: I stopped going last year, but I used to sit in the Martin Peter's Stand!!!
me : you mean the "Bobby Moore" stand dont
him: that's the one.
me: W*****
This debate has been going on since before he left and in the end it tends to polarise. Personally for me he is and always be a legend but that doesn't mean that during his last season or so, there weren't any turgid performances or he didn't make some mistakes along the way. The bottom line was that he was at the club for 15 years and oversaw the transformation of a ramshackle nomad with a heart still beating fuelled largely by successes of a bygone era, to a modern professional outfit with a shiny new home.
By his efforts, he helped us punch above our weight, year after year, but I just think he felt he'd had done all he could here and it was time to go. Personally, whilst I would wish it otherwise, once he'd reached that view, it was best for all that he went. On reflection I don't think he left because of a perceived lack of support by the fans, he left because he knew it was time to move on, although prior to him going I did feel that some of the criticism was unnecessary and illplaced. What happened after he left to me is a lesson in how difficult a job it is to mould a team that has the character as well as the ability to win regularly against opponents who have considerably greater resources at their disposal. That for me, was Curbs greatest strength.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Neversang his name while he was here which mightly p*****D him off when he heard APRAWA at the 4 - 0 game.
Humble apologies, you are quite right we did sing his name, not as often as might have been expected given his length of service and success, but we did. Silly of me to say "never".
I wonder how much of the coolness about Curbs is down to his slightly distant public persona or to the whole Gritt goes/Curbs stays incident.
Despite Gritt having managed Millwall and Curbs having had so much success I would guess that many fans, older ones at least, would have more affection for Gritty than Curbs. Am I wrong
gritt gave his all but was no good as a player imo, curbs i never liked as a player but he was slightly better than gritt imo
i definitely would have preferred gritt to have stayed as the single manager at the time but the board judged that right
the king is dead long live the king
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]and right on queue, the Spurs fan in the office comes over and say 'do you reckon you'll go back in for Curbishley?'
any one else had that this morning ?
Yep, I had it from one this morning!
him: You reckon Curbs will go back to you?
Me: I didnt know you were an "IRON"
him: been going for years!!
me: oh really where'd you sit
him: I stopped going last year, but I used to sit in the Martin Peter's Stand!!!
me : you mean the "Bobby Moore" stand dont
him: that's the one.
me: W*****
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Neversang his name while he was here which mightly p*****D him off when he heard APRAWA at the 4 - 0 game.
Humble apologies, you are quite right we did sing his name, not as often as might have been expected given his length of service and success, but we did. Silly of me to say "never".
I wonder how much of the coolness about Curbs is down to his slightly distant public persona or to the whole Gritt goes/Curbs stays incident.
Despite Gritt having managed Millwall and Curbs having had so much success I would guess that many fans, older ones at least, would have more affection for Gritty than Curbs. Am I wrong
Gritty was a longtime player in the best Charlton tradition before becoming manager and thus much of his respect and affection arises because of that.
The photo of Gritty after the St Andrews play off match tells you everything you need to know about the man and his commitment to the cause far more clearly than reams of words.
Curbs also played of course (twice) but nowhere near as often as Gritty and the bulk of his playing career was at Sh**hurst and Upton Parks. Attendances at The Valley for the few games he played there were pretty awful too. Fewer fans therefore saw him play and so there was far less rapport with him than Gritty when Curbs got the nod. As you say a few people have never forgiven Curbs for that and in my opinion that is part of the reason Gritty didn't become a pariah for going to Millwall. There was a sense of injustice on his (Gritty's) behalf.
The relationship that the fans have with a manager is different to their relationship with players. I don't remember too many chants for Eddie Firmani, Andy Nelson or even Lennie Lawrence in their halcyon days. Curbs at least got regular choruses of Alan Cs Red and White Army.
However in life you often don't appreciate something until it has gone and in my view that is the case with Charlton and Curbs.
He did leave Dowie with a pretty crap squad - a midfield pairing of Holland & Hughes & his last purchase was a certain M Bent for a cople of mill !!
Although Dowie sqadered most of the £12m he spent, it HAD to be spent.
Murray put a lot of pressure on Dowie by saying taht if there was one season we needed to avoid relegation it ws that one - if it was so important we stayed up in 2006/7 then he should have let Curbs see out his contract, let him spend the £12 million and then see if he could keep us up (probbaly would) but watch another crap season of playing 1 up-front and like W ham at Man City the other week have 1 shot on goal all game.
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]He did leave Dowie with a pretty crap squad - a midfield pairing of Holland & Hughes & his last purchase was a certain M Bent for a cople of mill !!
Although Dowie sqadered most of the £12m he spent, it HAD to be spent.
Murray put a lot of pressure on Dowie by saying taht if there was one season we needed to avoid relegation it ws that one - if it was so important we stayed up in 2006/7 then he should have let Curbs see out his contract, let him spend the £12 million and then see if he could keep us up (probbaly would) but watch another crap season of playing 1 up-front and like W ham at Man City the other week have 1 shot on goal all game.
The problem with that is that Curbishley forced the issue by publicly saying that he would not be signing a new contract and putting the board in an impossible position.
How can you possibly give £12m to a manager to spend when everyone knows he won't be there in a years time?
so how much money did the board spend after curb's walked away after delivering us once again to comfortable safety and fantastic cup run? they gave dowie loads of dosh,then sacked him and paid him off,then paid off reid who remains blameless in all this and gave pardew a load more money to keep us up.
Business ethics - not seen much across the river in Essex come into this...
The perfect solution would have been to keep stmmmm keep Curbs for upto a year AND give him the money to strenghthen the squad (knowing full well that Darren Bent sale would pay it off) then wait for the right candidate to turn up.
Instead the board took the honourable route and paid Curbs off, advertised the job and then slightly shocked / surprised when the shortlist was topped by Hoddle and McCarthy - all the quotes were about structure, head coach , succession planning and not behind the scenes head hunting etc.
For the board they are paying hard cash NOW with a £15m injection and we still have worries - for us we live in hope - the irony is that the club feels more like the mid Curbishley era with a tight, hungry squad - next time I hope the board know that succesion planning is about knowing your man possibly before you've paid off the last one - not nice but...
We would have been relegated in 06/07 if Curbs had stayed on, I reckon. The Cup run aside, it was a wretched season. No established Premier League team suddenly has a disasterous season and falls through the trap door - the rot started on his watch.
[cite]Posted By: InspectorSands[/cite]We would have been relegated in 06/07 if Curbs had stayed on, I reckon. The Cup run aside, it was a wretched season. No established Premier League team suddenly has a disasterous season and falls through the trap door - the rot started on his watch.
I feel that the Inspector is absolutely right, unfortunately.
If it hadn't been for that wonder start, when we were 2nd in the League with something like 19 points from less than 10 matches, more than likely we would have been relegated in 05/06 under Curbs.
In fact, trying to remember the fixtures at the start of the season, most of those matches were against often hopelessly relegation struggling sides: Sunderland, Birmingham, West Brom, Boro, Pompey, Fulham are just a few that come quickly to mind - and just as well, because if we'd lost to many of these sides their points tally could have been greater - and ours somewhat less than the arbitrary safety figure of 40 points.
But take nothing away - you can only beat what's put in front of you and Curbs' team put the points in the bag and were flying. But then the roof fell in, as we all remember.
Grinding out results no doubt saved our skin, thankfully - but by then, it was obvious the team was basically only capable of damage limitation.
That in itself is a recipe for a desperate relegation struggle.
And so it proved.
can't have that if curbs had had £12 mill to spend there is no way we would have been relegated and with regards to Barts saying no one was calling for Pards head last year I feckin was mate.
02/03
4 points from last 10 games
03/04
10 points from last 10 games
04/05
6 points from last 10 games
05/06
11 points from last 10 games
these are facts and each following season after our abysmal finishes curbishley kept us up reasonably comfortably
with a £12m warchest for curbishley would he have kept us up in season 06/07??
i'm not a rocket scientist but i'm a gambler and i'd have bet a few squid he would have
my accountant is very well in the know at west ham and told me yesterday that the board and fans patience had run out at west ham.The selling of McCARTNEY was deliberate to push him over the edge.I asked whether they were in financial trouble and was told that they are stable but are stock piling in case they have to pay sheff utd compensation. I told him to be careful what he wished for and looked what happened to us once he left I also said he could have big nose back if they wanted him.
i've given 'that' look to all of them............so they all ran off with their tails between their legs...........no marks!!!!
here's a thing
we'll never know what would have happened if Curb's stayed, what in heavens name is the point of even thinking about it when so many were saying he should have walked after Parker??????
it's history
it's over
Pard's is our manager now & let's be thankful he has a board who will let him do exactly that, manage.
So let's get behind him, lets get behind the team HE is now building & leave the history where it belongs............in the past & discussed on matchdays over a pint of ale.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]If it hadn't been for that wonder start, when we were 2nd in the League with something like 19 points from less than 10 matches, more than likely we would have been relegated in 05/06 under Curbs.
i tend to agree,if we hadn't got any points we definitely would have gone down. one of the games we won was at boro 3-0 when we completely played them off the park playing very expansive football.this was live on tv for those who didn't make it up there. murphy loses it by christmas,bye bye smertin and the season is over.some things you can't account for in the season on a shoestring budget like rufus,hunt,mendonca parker and whatever else, but let's gloss over all that.
give curbs the £20m that we spunked that season and there is no doubt that we wouldn't have struggled. i guess we can only go on his record and that was only enhanced at west ham where he kept pardew's struggling side up .we went above them when we beat them 4-0 yet we finished 7 points behind them. they were confortable last season with a ridiculously injured squad and he leaves them in 4th this time but i imagine he knows that they are going down.
the guy is a charlton legend and i am sorry that you are all slighted that he doesn't sing our praises at every interview he gives or whatever he has done to you ffs.
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]the guy is a charlton legend and i am sorry that you are all slighted that he doesn't sing our praises at every interview he gives or whatever he has done to you ffs.
Comments
:-)
Yep, I had it from one this morning!
him: You reckon Curbs will go back to you?
Me: I didnt know you were an "IRON"
him: been going for years!!
me: oh really where'd you sit
him: I stopped going last year, but I used to sit in the Martin Peter's Stand!!!
me : you mean the "Bobby Moore" stand dont
him: that's the one.
me: W*****
By his efforts, he helped us punch above our weight, year after year, but I just think he felt he'd had done all he could here and it was time to go. Personally, whilst I would wish it otherwise, once he'd reached that view, it was best for all that he went. On reflection I don't think he left because of a perceived lack of support by the fans, he left because he knew it was time to move on, although prior to him going I did feel that some of the criticism was unnecessary and illplaced. What happened after he left to me is a lesson in how difficult a job it is to mould a team that has the character as well as the ability to win regularly against opponents who have considerably greater resources at their disposal. That for me, was Curbs greatest strength.
i definitely would have preferred gritt to have stayed as the single manager at the time but the board judged that right
the king is dead long live the king
LOL
Gritty was a longtime player in the best Charlton tradition before becoming manager and thus much of his respect and affection arises because of that.
The photo of Gritty after the St Andrews play off match tells you everything you need to know about the man and his commitment to the cause far more clearly than reams of words.
Curbs also played of course (twice) but nowhere near as often as Gritty and the bulk of his playing career was at Sh**hurst and Upton Parks. Attendances at The Valley for the few games he played there were pretty awful too. Fewer fans therefore saw him play and so there was far less rapport with him than Gritty when Curbs got the nod. As you say a few people have never forgiven Curbs for that and in my opinion that is part of the reason Gritty didn't become a pariah for going to Millwall. There was a sense of injustice on his (Gritty's) behalf.
The relationship that the fans have with a manager is different to their relationship with players. I don't remember too many chants for Eddie Firmani, Andy Nelson or even Lennie Lawrence in their halcyon days. Curbs at least got regular choruses of Alan Cs Red and White Army.
However in life you often don't appreciate something until it has gone and in my view that is the case with Charlton and Curbs.
Although Dowie sqadered most of the £12m he spent, it HAD to be spent.
Murray put a lot of pressure on Dowie by saying taht if there was one season we needed to avoid relegation it ws that one - if it was so important we stayed up in 2006/7 then he should have let Curbs see out his contract, let him spend the £12 million and then see if he could keep us up (probbaly would) but watch another crap season of playing 1 up-front and like W ham at Man City the other week have 1 shot on goal all game.
The problem with that is that Curbishley forced the issue by publicly saying that he would not be signing a new contract and putting the board in an impossible position.
How can you possibly give £12m to a manager to spend when everyone knows he won't be there in a years time?
The perfect solution would have been to keep stmmmm keep Curbs for upto a year AND give him the money to strenghthen the squad (knowing full well that Darren Bent sale would pay it off) then wait for the right candidate to turn up.
Instead the board took the honourable route and paid Curbs off, advertised the job and then slightly shocked / surprised when the shortlist was topped by Hoddle and McCarthy - all the quotes were about structure, head coach , succession planning and not behind the scenes head hunting etc.
For the board they are paying hard cash NOW with a £15m injection and we still have worries - for us we live in hope - the irony is that the club feels more like the mid Curbishley era with a tight, hungry squad - next time I hope the board know that succesion planning is about knowing your man possibly before you've paid off the last one - not nice but...
I feel that the Inspector is absolutely right, unfortunately.
If it hadn't been for that wonder start, when we were 2nd in the League with something like 19 points from less than 10 matches, more than likely we would have been relegated in 05/06 under Curbs.
In fact, trying to remember the fixtures at the start of the season, most of those matches were against often hopelessly relegation struggling sides: Sunderland, Birmingham, West Brom, Boro, Pompey, Fulham are just a few that come quickly to mind - and just as well, because if we'd lost to many of these sides their points tally could have been greater - and ours somewhat less than the arbitrary safety figure of 40 points.
But take nothing away - you can only beat what's put in front of you and Curbs' team put the points in the bag and were flying. But then the roof fell in, as we all remember.
Grinding out results no doubt saved our skin, thankfully - but by then, it was obvious the team was basically only capable of damage limitation.
That in itself is a recipe for a desperate relegation struggle.
And so it proved.
4 points from last 10 games
03/04
10 points from last 10 games
04/05
6 points from last 10 games
05/06
11 points from last 10 games
these are facts and each following season after our abysmal finishes curbishley kept us up reasonably comfortably
with a £12m warchest for curbishley would he have kept us up in season 06/07??
i'm not a rocket scientist but i'm a gambler and i'd have bet a few squid he would have
I told him to be careful what he wished for and looked what happened to us once he left I also said he could have big nose back if they wanted him.
'so Curb's is on his way back to Charlton then?'
i've given 'that' look to all of them............so they all ran off with their tails between their legs...........no marks!!!!
here's a thing
we'll never know what would have happened if Curb's stayed, what in heavens name is the point of even thinking about it when so many were saying he should have walked after Parker??????
it's history
it's over
Pard's is our manager now & let's be thankful he has a board who will let him do exactly that, manage.
So let's get behind him, lets get behind the team HE is now building & leave the history where it belongs............in the past & discussed on matchdays over a pint of ale.
Alan Pardews Red & White Army!
i tend to agree,if we hadn't got any points we definitely would have gone down. one of the games we won was at boro 3-0 when we completely played them off the park playing very expansive football.this was live on tv for those who didn't make it up there. murphy loses it by christmas,bye bye smertin and the season is over.some things you can't account for in the season on a shoestring budget like rufus,hunt,mendonca parker and whatever else, but let's gloss over all that.
give curbs the £20m that we spunked that season and there is no doubt that we wouldn't have struggled. i guess we can only go on his record and that was only enhanced at west ham where he kept pardew's struggling side up .we went above them when we beat them 4-0 yet we finished 7 points behind them. they were confortable last season with a ridiculously injured squad and he leaves them in 4th this time but i imagine he knows that they are going down.
the guy is a charlton legend and i am sorry that you are all slighted that he doesn't sing our praises at every interview he gives or whatever he has done to you ffs.
apart from the fact you quite live kelivin McC**t ;o)
i just like saying things so that one day you might grace me with a 'howdo' down the other end of Row OO ;-)
;-)
you can't make the blind see