[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]some of us quite like the more bullish, more ambitious attitude that Pards has.
yeah he talks a good game and has built everyones hopes up and failed miserably so far
and then when we're hoping/demanding for success and promotion people say oh don't forget where we used to be...
actions speak louder than words
but some of us quite like the more bullish, more ambitious attitude that Pards has.
for himself
Good, cause if it means he performs better for us, then we benefit. His personal ambitions will be hurt if we don't go up in the next 18 months, so it's in his interest to get us promoted. Win win for me
As you may have guessed :-) I fall into the other camp on this one, Rothko. I know what you mean re sometimes needing to be a bit more bullish, but I think that core values of this club are reality and humilty, and Pards is just too much at odds with that for my taste, without bringing success to compensate for it.
My biggest regret is that we didn't go for Martin O'Neill after Curbs left - he was sitting waiting by the phone at the time for a Prem club to call. Now I'll be the first to admit that he is also a little bit arrogant and opinionated, but I bet we'd still be in the Prem if we'd had the belief to go for it with him at the time...
I don't think we were big enough for O'Neill, pure and simple, I think he wanted the right club, with the right financial backing and a long time to get it right, and Lerner when he took over Villa was the right club for him. I suspect the fear of him leaving whenever a decent job would have come available would have drove people mad.
I think they were Curbs values, not the clubs values.
As for success, there is still 6 weeks left this season, lets see what happens.
I disagree massively re O'Neill - he took the Villa job before Lerner was anywhere near the scene. At the time, on paper, Charlton as a club had as much to offer. To me, believeing we are were not a big enough club for the likes of O'Neill is an admission of the limits of our ambition - and appointing an arrogant bulls**ter doesn't compensate.
We'll see this season, but I'll be gobsmacked if we get anywhere near - by now it is usually pretty clear what shape the team is in - if you're not in form/ on a roll pre Easter then there's little chance.
Except Curbs managed the impossible with Wet Spam last year...so if you're reading, Al?
O'Neill was appointed 10 days before Lerner completed his take over, and placed his first bid in July that year, O'Neill could see what was going to happen at Villa.
Think some are going to accept that Pards won't be sacked this summer, and there is still a fair chance we'll be in the top six. Moron or not
But if we're not in the top six this season and he's not sacked (or doesn't walk) in the summer, then some of us will not go into next season with much hope in our hearts.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]But if we're not in the top six this season and he's not sacked (or doesn't walk) in the summer, then some of us will not go into next season with much hope in our hearts.
Surely being a Charlton fan you are pretty used to this? There have been some awful years, it's still Charlton, the club we all love.
[cite]Posted By: Imissthepeanutman[/cite]In terms of Pards calling it a day. How many managers walk of their own accord when a team is not successful? Very very few.
But would sacking him and getting an out of work manager in the summer, who would want two years to build his team be of any benefit? or do we return to the club of the late 70's early 80's that chopped and changed.
Just a thought, and imagine for a horrible moment if you were a West Brom fan, would you want Mowbury out this summer if he doesn't get them up?
Stu, yes, I'm used to it - Charlton were in Div 3 when I started supporting them. But it doesn't mean I don't enjoy success and have ambition for the Club.
[cite]Posted By: Imissthepeanutman[/cite]In terms of Pards calling it a day. How many managers walk of their own accord when a team is not successful? Very very few.
keegan has made a career out of doing it.
Good shout. And he gets teams promoted from this league. Wonder where we fit in his ambitions.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]But would sacking him and getting an out of work manager in the summer, who would want two years to build his team be of any benefit? or do we return to the club of the late 70's early 80's that chopped and changed.
Just a thought, and imagine for a horrible moment if you were a West Brom fan, would you want Mowbury out this summer if he doesn't get them up?
No, I wouldn't want Mowbray out because he came in and took over someone else's squad and revolutionised it by getting much more out of the players already there.
More than anything I would like stability, success and Pards to be successful at Charlton - genuinely - I'm just not getting enough vibes that he is up to it. Talking of 70s and 80s, perhaps he reminds me too much of the over-hyped Alan Mullery who also didn't have Charlton in his heart.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]
No, I wouldn't want Mowbray out because he came in and took over someone else's squad and revolutionised it by getting much more out of the players already there.
But Pards picked up a squad that was total shite, I'm a firm believer he just needs the time to build a real squad, look at his record, he builds good teams that do damn well, yes he uses a lot of players, he always has and his record at this level especially speaks for itself.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]But if we're not in the top six this season and he's not sacked (or doesn't walk) in the summer, then some of us will not go into next season with much hope in our hearts.
Just as a balance to this, before we played Stoke away in August (seems like years ago now), i did a fair bit of scouring of the Stoke boards and local press. The overwhelming majority wanted him out, despised him and strongly felt he was taking the club backwards. I'm pretty sure that has been quickly forgotten now.
Sometimes managers get instant success by chucking a whole squad together, but the vast majority of the time it takes to time. Part of that time is to see if gambles pay off, others to is learn from mistakes, and get a real understanding of his squad and what is exactly needed to take us forward.
In the mad crazy dash to try and get up first time, its lead to a series of short-term gambles to try and get instant results. The result has proved the opposite. The more considered long-term approach may have the desired effect. For that it needs Pardew to remain until approaching the end of this calendar year to see if the squad he retains and compiles for next season is of the required level, despite a general acceptance that if we don't make the play offs this team we have massively underperformed.
I think that's my main thing, I look at Watford, West Brom, Stoke and Bristol City and see teams and managers who have been given time to build a squad and make it happen, and as AFKA said I think we've rushed to get promoted and gambled, and some of the gambles haven't worked.
But for example, I think Gray will be a good player for us in the long term, but maybe not mid season, Cook for a season rather then now.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]I think that's my main thing, I look at Watford, West Brom, Stoke and Bristol City and see teams and managers who have been given time to build a squad and make it happen, and as AFKA said I think we've rushed to get promoted and gambled, and some of the gambles haven't worked.
But for example, I think Gray will be a good player for us in the long term, but maybe not mid season, Cook for a season rather then now.
And if we are going to be like Watford we should expect like them to sell our best players and expect to be relegated the following season and to work financially within the budgets eg not attract big name players and of course suspend all development of the stadium. I hope we are ready for that excitement.
With regards to what Pardew said i dont have an issue with it to me it reads that he wants to manage at the highest level,
if you were a footballer for example Jon Jo shelvey would you see Charlton as being able to fulfill your footballing ambitions, FA cup,League Cup,Uefa Cup,Champions league, World Cup.
IMO no charlton will never win the champions league, or the uefa cup. we could win the league cup one day and if we got the results like Barnsley we could in the next 50 years win the FA Cup, but would we not want Shelvey to go on and win all things european and take our national team on to a world cup i wouldnt want to hold him back if he did what he could for us and didnt leave under a cloud like spotty, if he had done all he could for us and we got loads for him i would sit at home wishing what ever team he went to well and watching hem because he was playing well.
All Pardew has said is would it fulfill my ambitions NO it wont but he would be willing to go there and do enough to get himself the move to take him to his final goal.
A hungry manager so it might not be going to our plan but he's who knows only the man himself and that is why he needs time
The geezer is losin the feckin plot read his comments on ceefax apparently it's fate conspiring against that we have dropped from the mighty 5th to 10th.What a knob he's beginning to sound more like David Icke everytime I hear or read what he has said.Nothing to do with the fact he doesn't know his best 11 players with 7 games to go.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]With regards to what Pardew said i dont have an issue with it to me it reads that he wants to manage at the highest level
IMO no charlton will never win the champions league, or the uefa cup. we could win the league cup one day and if we got the results like Barnsley we could in the next 50 years win the FA Cup
just like pards i want MY/OUR TEAM to perform at the highest level mixing it with the big boys and maybe one day a zilllion to one shot we might make it into the champions league win the Fa or League cup .
I'm gonna support them whatever level they play at but i'm not content with the crap that's being served up now considering the backing that's been given to him
the 'we're only little old charlton... what do you expect... it's been a lot worse' isn't good enough reason for us to aim low cos if you aim low you wont miss but if you shoot for the moon you might hit a star
Comments
yeah he talks a good game and has built everyones hopes up and failed miserably so far
and then when we're hoping/demanding for success and promotion people say oh don't forget where we used to be...
actions speak louder than words
Good, cause if it means he performs better for us, then we benefit. His personal ambitions will be hurt if we don't go up in the next 18 months, so it's in his interest to get us promoted. Win win for me
My biggest regret is that we didn't go for Martin O'Neill after Curbs left - he was sitting waiting by the phone at the time for a Prem club to call. Now I'll be the first to admit that he is also a little bit arrogant and opinionated, but I bet we'd still be in the Prem if we'd had the belief to go for it with him at the time...
I think they were Curbs values, not the clubs values.
As for success, there is still 6 weeks left this season, lets see what happens.
you put the 9 upside down... 9 till the play off final!!
**kneels down and prays**
We'll see this season, but I'll be gobsmacked if we get anywhere near - by now it is usually pretty clear what shape the team is in - if you're not in form/ on a roll pre Easter then there's little chance.
Except Curbs managed the impossible with Wet Spam last year...so if you're reading, Al?
Think some are going to accept that Pards won't be sacked this summer, and there is still a fair chance we'll be in the top six. Moron or not
It is an irony that for Pardew to move on to better things he has first to be successful with Charlton.
Who knows in 3 years time he may be the great Super Pards. Another legend alongside Curbs and Lennie and Jimmy Seed.
Surely being a Charlton fan you are pretty used to this? There have been some awful years, it's still Charlton, the club we all love.
keegan has made a career out of doing it.
Just a thought, and imagine for a horrible moment if you were a West Brom fan, would you want Mowbury out this summer if he doesn't get them up?
Good shout. And he gets teams promoted from this league. Wonder where we fit in his ambitions.
No, I wouldn't want Mowbray out because he came in and took over someone else's squad and revolutionised it by getting much more out of the players already there.
More than anything I would like stability, success and Pards to be successful at Charlton - genuinely - I'm just not getting enough vibes that he is up to it. Talking of 70s and 80s, perhaps he reminds me too much of the over-hyped Alan Mullery who also didn't have Charlton in his heart.
But Pards picked up a squad that was total shite, I'm a firm believer he just needs the time to build a real squad, look at his record, he builds good teams that do damn well, yes he uses a lot of players, he always has and his record at this level especially speaks for itself.
Just as a balance to this, before we played Stoke away in August (seems like years ago now), i did a fair bit of scouring of the Stoke boards and local press. The overwhelming majority wanted him out, despised him and strongly felt he was taking the club backwards. I'm pretty sure that has been quickly forgotten now.
Sometimes managers get instant success by chucking a whole squad together, but the vast majority of the time it takes to time. Part of that time is to see if gambles pay off, others to is learn from mistakes, and get a real understanding of his squad and what is exactly needed to take us forward.
In the mad crazy dash to try and get up first time, its lead to a series of short-term gambles to try and get instant results. The result has proved the opposite. The more considered long-term approach may have the desired effect. For that it needs Pardew to remain until approaching the end of this calendar year to see if the squad he retains and compiles for next season is of the required level, despite a general acceptance that if we don't make the play offs this team we have massively underperformed.
But for example, I think Gray will be a good player for us in the long term, but maybe not mid season, Cook for a season rather then now.
I can now have my Cocoa, read a book, safe in the knowledge that all will be alright in the end.
And if we are going to be like Watford we should expect like them to sell our best players and expect to be relegated the following season and to work financially within the budgets eg not attract big name players and of course suspend all development of the stadium. I hope we are ready for that excitement.
if you were a footballer for example Jon Jo shelvey would you see Charlton as being able to fulfill your footballing ambitions, FA cup,League Cup,Uefa Cup,Champions league, World Cup.
IMO no charlton will never win the champions league, or the uefa cup. we could win the league cup one day and if we got the results like Barnsley we could in the next 50 years win the FA Cup, but would we not want Shelvey to go on and win all things european and take our national team on to a world cup i wouldnt want to hold him back if he did what he could for us and didnt leave under a cloud like spotty, if he had done all he could for us and we got loads for him i would sit at home wishing what ever team he went to well and watching hem because he was playing well.
All Pardew has said is would it fulfill my ambitions NO it wont but he would be willing to go there and do enough to get himself the move to take him to his final goal.
A hungry manager so it might not be going to our plan but he's who knows only the man himself and that is why he needs time
just like pards i want MY/OUR TEAM to perform at the highest level mixing it with the big boys and maybe one day a zilllion to one shot we might make it into the champions league win the Fa or League cup .
I'm gonna support them whatever level they play at but i'm not content with the crap that's being served up now considering the backing that's been given to him
the 'we're only little old charlton... what do you expect... it's been a lot worse' isn't good enough reason for us to aim low cos if you aim low you wont miss but if you shoot for the moon you might hit a star