Given the overwhelming evidence that it's a disaster of biblical proportions, that none of the supporters actually know what they really voted for, what it means or what they actually want as a final outcome, even intelligent Brexiters come across as very, very stupid. As for the ones who are already stupid...
I'll leave you to it now.
I got a flag from charltonj? Are you offended because you are stupid, or very, very stupid? Just for the record...
Perhaps it was for bullshitting and shite stirring in one post?
Perhaps someone could explain the meaning of bullshitting and shite stirring to you? If you are going to bite, at least try and get the terminology right...
After a year of being forced to fight to be allowed to, when it should have automatically been their right from day one. May did everything in her power to try and block parliament from having any say, and when she didn't get her own way called a snap election to at least try and stack parliament in her favour.
And what then is your point? Parliament has endorsed every step so far. That is great and what sovereignty means.Our Parliament is once again in control of our future. The EU meanwhile is on a road to more integration and a single goverment and currency. There is not and has never been any kind of support for being part of that in this country.
Depends what you mean by Parliament, and what you mean by endorsed. The House of Lords Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee published a scathing report about the current state of the Brexit Bill a few days ago (if you don't fancy reading the whole thing there's a summary of their recommendations on p30, or have a look at the slightly lurid if entertaining BBC report on the report) flagging up serious concerns about the extent of the powers it would hand over to individual ministers to change the law without getting approval from Parliament as a whole. And for reasons I don't understand well enough to explain here, there's also the possibility of regulators and quangos being able to do the same thing.
As the report itself says
We judge powers not on how the Government say that they will use them but on how any Government might use them
(my emphasis). While you might not be bothered by this apparently boring technical detail in the grand scheme of the Brexit implementation, you're basically a cabinet reshuffle away from your Most Hated Tory MP being able to rewrite the law as they deem appropriate without any intervention from Parliament, or if the Government collapses and we have another bloody general election in the next year or so, your Most Dreaded Labour Frontbench Bogeyman (or woman) being able to do the same. This does not put Parliament in control of our future, but hands it to a limited number of ministers instead.
This Bill is going through Parliament now and is open to amendment,as it should be. If a majority of our MPs vote for it then it will go through, and vice versa. It seems to me that your real problem is that the Tories are the biggest party. That is democracy for you, I am afraid.
After a year of being forced to fight to be allowed to, when it should have automatically been their right from day one. May did everything in her power to try and block parliament from having any say, and when she didn't get her own way called a snap election to at least try and stack parliament in her favour.
And what then is your point? Parliament has endorsed every step so far. That is great and what sovereignty means.Our Parliament is once again in control of our future. The EU meanwhile is on a road to more integration and a single goverment and currency. There is not and has never been any kind of support for being part of that in this country.
Depends what you mean by Parliament, and what you mean by endorsed. The House of Lords Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee published a scathing report about the current state of the Brexit Bill a few days ago (if you don't fancy reading the whole thing there's a summary of their recommendations on p30, or have a look at the slightly lurid if entertaining BBC report on the report) flagging up serious concerns about the extent of the powers it would hand over to individual ministers to change the law without getting approval from Parliament as a whole. And for reasons I don't understand well enough to explain here, there's also the possibility of regulators and quangos being able to do the same thing.
As the report itself says
We judge powers not on how the Government say that they will use them but on how any Government might use them
(my emphasis). While you might not be bothered by this apparently boring technical detail in the grand scheme of the Brexit implementation, you're basically a cabinet reshuffle away from your Most Hated Tory MP being able to rewrite the law as they deem appropriate without any intervention from Parliament, or if the Government collapses and we have another bloody general election in the next year or so, your Most Dreaded Labour Frontbench Bogeyman (or woman) being able to do the same. This does not put Parliament in control of our future, but hands it to a limited number of ministers instead.
This Bill is going through Parliament now and is open to amendment,as it should be. If a majority of our MPs vote for it then it will go through, and vice versa. It seems to me that your real problem is that the Tories are the biggest party. That is democracy for you, I am afraid.
Of course, massive margins to be made on exporting pigs ears to China. Never mind the fact that any pork from pigs reared in this fashion can never be exported to the EU due to traceability rules.
That should definitely more than make up the loss of increased tariffs on UK exports to the EU. Another Tory success story. Anyone up for a fox hunt?
It's great news indeed that Gove has found a shining light that will guide us to the sunny uplands of Brexitland that await us. Because, I will be honest, I never even factored in the substantial revenues we can achieve by selling pigs' ears to China. And, having looked into this, it turns out that we may well be able to sell more than one ear per pig.
This is brilliant.
Apart from the fact that China is the world's largest producer of pork and already produces more than twice the amount of pig meat than the whole of the European Union. And any pigs that are farmed in a way that enables the ears to be exported to China would not be fit to export to the EU.
If Gove is genuinely trumpeting the export of pigs' ears as the reason for confidence and rejoice at our opportunities, we're in even more trouble than I thought.
Sorry, not sure what happened there, only the last paragraph is from me
Sorry, that was down to me getting fancy with the quoting. Stick in an extra < /blockquote> after my last bit, but remove the space before the /
But no, my problem is NOT that the Tories are in power, my problem is that they are trying to give ministers massive sweeping powers to override Parliament that I wouldn't want any MP of any shade to have. The Government haven't given MPs very long to debate it, and unless a reasonable number of their backbenchers grow a spine they will be able to railroad it through with the help of their bought and paid for partners in the DUP. And then in a matter of supreme irony given the amount of bleating from some quarters about laws made by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, we're going to be relying on the unelected members of the House of Lords to defend Parliamentary sovereignty.
give it a rest with your negative bollocks. Come on, let's have the truth about the EU - UK trade deal as it stands now. The EU has a massive annual trade surplus with the UK. Do you honestly for one tick of a second think that they are going to sacrifice that or put it at risk? The UK has a massive trade deficit with the rest of the EU. Do you think for one second that the UK wants that to end? Don't talk shit!
Take your silly blinkers off, be proud of your nation and look at the real, true data that is coming out of the UK over the last few months. That is after all of the negative crap from the EU and from EU puppets like Carney at the BOE who gets bunged by the EU to spout shit. Unemployment at it's lowest since 1972, trade and investment up by billions of pounds. exports booming beyond anyone's expectations, record numbers of tourists coming to UK and spending records amounts of money and a rate rise to come which will boost the currency and the economy even further.
If you don't understand the way the financial markets interpret political news, events and statements then don't comment on something you know bollock all about. An interest rate rise will see the pound rally hugely because it is seen by the markets as a positive for that currency and that economy.
I am sick to death of you giving the UK the thumbs down every day. Seth Plum, you are the worst of all. You have posted the same old on here every day for the last 15 months. Give it a rest and find something new to say. You are boring!
give it a rest with your negative bollocks. Come on, let's have the truth about the EU - UK trade deal as it stands now. The EU has a massive annual trade surplus with the UK. Do you honestly for one tick of a second think that they are going to sacrifice that or put it at risk? The UK has a massive trade deficit with the rest of the EU. Do you think for one second that the UK wants that to end? Don't talk shit!
Take your silly blinkers off, be proud of your nation and look at the real, true data that is coming out of the UK over the last few months. That is after all of the negative crap from the EU and from EU puppets like Carney at the BOE who gets bunged by the EU to spout shit. Unemployment at it's lowest since 1972, trade and investment up by billions of pounds. exports booming beyond anyone's expectations, record numbers of tourists coming to UK and spending records amounts of money and a rate rise to come which will boost the currency and the economy even further.
If you don't understand the way the financial markets interpret political news, events and statements then don't comment on something you know bollock all about. An interest rate rise will see the pound rally hugely because it is seen by the markets as a positive for that currency and that economy.
I am sick to death of you giving the UK the thumbs down every day. Seth Plum, you are the worst of all. You have posted the same old on here every day for the last 15 months. Give it a rest and find something new to say. You are boring!
I'm not here to be laughed at Barfed at Or spat upon. I'm here to sell my pills. So he said 'come forth' But he came fifth And so he lost the race.
You lost mate. You have nothing to say. No worries AFKA, I have had a fair few beers tonight here in Athens. Appreciate what you are after. Not commenting again tonight lol
I've lost confidence in the goverment and it's Brexit negotiations with the EU...well not while Theresa May is in charge. A good few months ago she said Brexit means Brexit and no deal is better than a bad deal but she is imposing a two year transitional period after we leave the EU which is not good enough.
If things don't change within the Tory goverment then it's obvious Labour will win the next election and then we willl find ourselves in the Single Market after Brexit. Corbyn is a secret Brexitier but he is following his backbenchers so he is weak as anything.
Whether you like Trump or not BUT he is chasing for a trade deal with us before the next president takes us at the back of queue.
I'd like someone strong to take on this because May is not doing a great job at the moment!
give it a rest with your negative bollocks. Come on, let's have the truth about the EU - UK trade deal as it stands now. The EU has a massive annual trade surplus with the UK. Do you honestly for one tick of a second think that they are going to sacrifice that or put it at risk? The UK has a massive trade deficit with the rest of the EU. Do you think for one second that the UK wants that to end? Don't talk shit!
Take your silly blinkers off, be proud of your nation and look at the real, true data that is coming out of the UK over the last few months. That is after all of the negative crap from the EU and from EU puppets like Carney at the BOE who gets bunged by the EU to spout shit. Unemployment at it's lowest since 1972, trade and investment up by billions of pounds. exports booming beyond anyone's expectations, record numbers of tourists coming to UK and spending records amounts of money and a rate rise to come which will boost the currency and the economy even further.
If you don't understand the way the financial markets interpret political news, events and statements then don't comment on something you know bollock all about. An interest rate rise will see the pound rally hugely because it is seen by the markets as a positive for that currency and that economy.
I am sick to death of you giving the UK the thumbs down every day. Seth Plum, you are the worst of all. You have posted the same old on here every day for the last 15 months. Give it a rest and find something new to say. You are boring!
In the spirit of AFKA's post, I will make no comment. I will just leave these here.
Well e-CAFC enjoy Athens while you can. In 18 months you will be spending several days queuing at Customs having paid 25% more for your holiday as the government has yet to recruit and train airport security staff despite media reports they are already under-resourced. Ditto Ebsfleet, Harwich, Dover etc haven't planned for the extra time for customs tarrif paperwork. M20 car park. Who is going to pay for the agricultural subsidies our landed gentry currently receive? EU currently vet imports from outside. Are we now hiring and training our own or will we just let any goods in until people die from shoddy products. What is the true cost of No Deal? Trade deal with USA looks unlikely given Boeing issue. As long as Amazon, Apple, e-Bay etc can pay peanuts in C Tax it will be a one way street as Trump has promised to protect US industry. EU are trying to pursue tax evasion but UK was absent from countries wanting Swiss transparency on bank accounts.
In 18 months you will be spending several days queuing at Customs having paid 25% more for your holiday as the government has yet to recruit and train airport security staff despite media reports they are already under-resourced.
What if there is a entry line that says " UK passports only" ? It will be quicker than all the UK entry points that I have experienced in the last few years.
Yes, they are already under resourced (and we are still in the EU), so no change there then.
If the EU are not going to trade with us, then that's the M20 cleared of all the trucks for a start.
The Boeing issue is just a ploy for them to make a bid for Bombardier (IMO).
How long have those big corporations been avoiding tax through Lichtenstein/Lux etc ? - we get a Brexit vote and suddenly the EU goes all tax efficient. Could it be that they will need the dosh soon, as we won't be filling the coffers for them?
We have been outside the EU before, so we have had to deal with all the issues you raise.
Well e-CAFC enjoy Athens while you can. In 18 months you will be spending several days queuing at Customs
I used to date a Venezuelan girl, we traveled a fair amount together, I'd always try and blag my way through the non-EU line, it was always way, way shorter.
In 18 months you will be spending several days queuing at Customs having paid 25% more for your holiday as the government has yet to recruit and train airport security staff despite media reports they are already under-resourced.
What if there is a entry line that says " UK passports only" ? It will be quicker than all the UK entry points that I have experienced in the last few years.
Yes, they are already under resourced (and we are still in the EU), so no change there then.
If the EU are not going to trade with us, then that's the M20 cleared of all the trucks for a start.
The Boeing issue is just a ploy for them to make a bid for Bombardier (IMO).
How long have those big corporations been avoiding tax through Lichtenstein/Lux etc ? - we get a Brexit vote and suddenly the EU goes all tax efficient. Could it be that they will need the dosh soon, as we won't be filling the coffers for them?
We have been outside the EU before, so we have had to deal with all the issues you raise.
What - in France, Italy or Portugal? Doubt it, but it might happen. I expect Boris to be telling you that any minute now...
Comments
This Bill is going through Parliament now and is open to amendment,as it should be. If a majority of our MPs vote for it then it will go through, and vice versa.
It seems to me that your real problem is that the Tories are the biggest party. That is democracy for you, I am afraid.
This Bill is going through Parliament now and is open to amendment,as it should be. If a majority of our MPs vote for it then it will go through, and vice versa.
It seems to me that your real problem is that the Tories are the biggest party. That is democracy for you, I am afraid.
https://www.farminguk.com/news/British-farmers-will-be-able-to-sell-more-pigs-ears-after-Brexit-Gove-states_47545.html
What a grade A twonk.
That should definitely more than make up the loss of increased tariffs on UK exports to the EU. Another Tory success story. Anyone up for a fox hunt?
This is brilliant.
Apart from the fact that China is the world's largest producer of pork and already produces more than twice the amount of pig meat than the whole of the European Union. And any pigs that are farmed in a way that enables the ears to be exported to China would not be fit to export to the EU.
If Gove is genuinely trumpeting the export of pigs' ears as the reason for confidence and rejoice at our opportunities, we're in even more trouble than I thought.
But no, my problem is NOT that the Tories are in power, my problem is that they are trying to give ministers massive sweeping powers to override Parliament that I wouldn't want any MP of any shade to have. The Government haven't given MPs very long to debate it, and unless a reasonable number of their backbenchers grow a spine they will be able to railroad it through with the help of their bought and paid for partners in the DUP. And then in a matter of supreme irony given the amount of bleating from some quarters about laws made by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, we're going to be relying on the unelected members of the House of Lords to defend Parliamentary sovereignty.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/03/michael-gove-made-a-pigs-ear-of-it-over-eu-animal-rules-say-farmers?CMP=share_btn_fb
Take your silly blinkers off, be proud of your nation and look at the real, true data that is coming out of the UK over the last few months. That is after all of the negative crap from the EU and from EU puppets like Carney at the BOE who gets bunged by the EU to spout shit. Unemployment at it's lowest since 1972, trade and investment up by billions of pounds. exports booming beyond anyone's expectations, record numbers of tourists coming to UK and spending records amounts of money and a rate rise to come which will boost the currency and the economy even further.
If you don't understand the way the financial markets interpret political news, events and statements then don't comment on something you know bollock all about. An interest rate rise will see the pound rally hugely because it is seen by the markets as a positive for that currency and that economy.
I am sick to death of you giving the UK the thumbs down every day. Seth Plum, you are the worst of all. You have posted the same old on here every day for the last 15 months. Give it a rest and find something new to say. You are boring!
Couple of edits there fella. No prob having your say but with respect for fellow posters please (including those with opposing views).
Deep breath and count to ten before the hitting the post comment button squire
Barfed at
Or spat upon.
I'm here to sell my pills.
So he said 'come forth'
But he came fifth
And so he lost the race.
If things don't change within the Tory goverment then it's obvious Labour will win the next election and then we willl find ourselves in the Single Market after Brexit. Corbyn is a secret Brexitier but he is following his backbenchers so he is weak as anything.
Whether you like Trump or not BUT he is chasing for a trade deal with us before the next president takes us at the back of queue.
I'd like someone strong to take on this because May is not doing a great job at the moment!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/10/uk-exports-fell-june-despite-hopes-boost-sterlings-weakness/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-trade-deficit-export-figures-june-drop-5-per-cent-goods-ons-city-london-manufacturing-a7885586.html
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/08/uk-exports-eu-weak-pound-trade-europe
Hurrah for EU labels.
What if there is a entry line that says " UK passports only" ?
It will be quicker than all the UK entry points that I have experienced in the last few years.
Yes, they are already under resourced (and we are still in the EU), so no change there then.
If the EU are not going to trade with us, then that's the M20 cleared of all the trucks for a start.
The Boeing issue is just a ploy for them to make a bid for Bombardier (IMO).
How long have those big corporations been avoiding tax through Lichtenstein/Lux etc ? - we get a Brexit vote and suddenly the EU goes all tax efficient. Could it be that they will need the dosh soon, as we won't be filling the coffers for them?
We have been outside the EU before, so we have had to deal with all the issues you raise.