From the IPCC "Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died show it was a police issue bullet"
"The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police."
Reactions to this then? Or will the police still be defended here?
Well he died during the raid, can you at least acknowledge that for now ? or do you need proof of that too ? You work for the police or something like that by any chance ?
Don't be a total muppet. Of course he died during the raid. I have used commonsense and have read the IPCC link (did you bother?) And no I don't work for the police. I take no position until the evidence has come out. You should try it.
Don't be a total muppet. Of course he died during the raid. I have used commonsense and have read the IPCC link (did you bother?) And no I don't work for the police. I take no position until the evidence has come out. You should try it.
it says an inquiry is happening, did you gain all of your knowledge that my opinion is im wrong from that ?
From the IPCC "Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died show it was a police issue bullet"
"The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police."
Reactions to this then? Or will the police still be defended here?
From the IPCC "Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died show it was a police issue bullet"
"The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police."
Reactions to this then? Or will the police still be defended here?
Do you have Alzhiemer's??? Re-read your posts and mine. You first referred to a 'Bristol' case (it was Surrey) and said that the police were corrupt in relation to that. My response has been made to you on that (and your idiotic shoot them in the legs suggestion.)
The Tottenham matter is one on which I have not commented. IMO unless any statement is on the IPCC website (and NO I do not work for the IPCC either) I would not rely upon it as coming from the IPCC. Too many rumours and some may be malicious or wilful thinking.
The comment that the early suggestion that the bullet was from a police bullet was in fact reported by the Guardian as something the paper understood. It does not purport to quote the IPCC. It may be correct - it may not but I would rather wait until the IPCC (who have a duty to investigate) make a statement. This underlines the point I made in my previous post.
Ok Legal perhaps I was a bit hasty in my comment. Agreed it does not directly quote the IPCC but it does back up my thoughts on what happened initially.
Colt: The trouble is that even stating that 'it does not directly quote the IPCC' is itself misleading. The Guardian doesn't purport to mention the IPCC so why did you add it? Because 'it does back up my thoughts'??? That is really a very poor excuse. By all means have an opinion and if you want to then express it but for heaven's sake be accurate.
Colt: The trouble is that even stating that 'it does not directly quote the IPCC' is itself misleading. The Guardian doesn't purport to mention the IPCC so why did you add it? Because 'it does back up my thoughts'??? That is really a very poor excuse. By all means have an opinion and if you want to then express it but for heaven's sake be accurate.
I think you are being a tad hasty in your criticism. The Guardian reports a "reliable" source, who I presume is someone at the forensics/ballistics lab. So presumably this leak came from the police themselves or someone close to them.
Do you have Alzhiemer's??? Re-read your posts and mine. You first referred to a 'Bristol' case (it was Surrey) and said that the police were corrupt in relation to that. My response has been made to you on that (and your idiotic shoot them in the legs suggestion.)
The Tottenham matter is one on which I have not commented. IMO unless any statement is on the IPCC website (and NO I do not work for the IPCC either) I would not rely upon it as coming from the IPCC. Too many rumours and some may be malicious or wilful thinking.
Fair play, im just commenting on the information which is everywhere. During the raid he was allowed to go make a brew at which point he died from a blade to the heart, to me this just seems bizzare. Either way, from entry to ambulance being called was 1 hr 30 mins, this is a long time. For me, him being unaccompanied into the kitchen just does not make sense... you would even presume he had be cuffed by that point of the raid.
As for the Bristol thing, I apologise for getting that wrong, but for me its a minor piece of information
Il leave it now until the official inquiry is over
Apologies if I'm wrong but I read the article that the tests were being done by the IPCC and a reliable source has leaked the information to the crime correspondent of one of the biggest newspaper's in the country. Therefore I concluded it was not directly quoted from the IPCC but from someone within the organisation. I would also be surprised if a crime correspondent would willingly state this if they weren't totally sure of the source.
Yes I have an opinion and like I said this statement backed it up, I'm not sure how else I can be accurate about it?
Colthe3rd - IF (big) he did not fire his weapon, he was still armed with an illegal firearm and in my book he is 'game on' to be shot, as people only arm themselves with an illegal firearm for one reason and this is to harm someone else. You may think this is harsh, but gun crime has spiralled out of control in London and needs to be stopped. If these people think that the Police will shoot them, they may think twice about carrying a gun. If the Police shot and killed some gun toting wannabe gangster everyday I would not lose one second of sleep.
Apologies if I'm wrong but I read the article that the tests were being done by the IPCC and a reliable source has leaked the information to the crime correspondent of one of the biggest newspaper's in the country. Therefore I concluded it was not directly quoted from the IPCC but from someone within the organisation. I would also be surprised if a crime correspondent would willingly state this if they weren't totally sure of the source.
Yes I have an opinion and like I said this statement backed it up, I'm not sure how else I can be accurate about it?
The IPCC do not investigate the incident, their job is to ensure that complaints about the police are taken seriously and investigated throroughly. they will not be conducting an enquiry into the shooting of Duggan, but making sure that whether the police acted lawfully.
Colt - IF (big) he did not fire his weapon, he was still armed with an illegal firearm and in my book he is 'game on' to be shot, as people only arm themselves with an illegal firearm for one reason and this is to harm someone else. You may think this is harsh, but gun crime has spiralled out of control in London and needs to be stopped. If these people think that the Police will shoot them, they may think twice about carrying a gun. If the Police shot and killed some gun toting wannabe gangster everyday I would not lose one second of sleep.
Those who play with fire shouldn't complain about getting burnt and all that, but it does raise questions about a shoot first and ask questions later policy which is fine if you want that kind of policing. Let's just hope that the police always get their man and not in the case of Jean Charles de Menezes confuse him someone totally different.
BlackForest - Menezes case was a total f**k up from start to finish and I agree with your comments about that matter, but that was a potential alleged suicide bomber and it seems that everyone involved got it wrong. Going back to your IPCC comments - they are definitely investigating the Duggan shooting independently of the Police, as it is a case of death as a result after recent Police contact. Their investigators give their findings direct to the CPS for consideration under the IPCC Commisioners supervision - they have the same powers as Police. They have several different modes of investigation depending on the seriousness of the matter and this is the most serious clearly.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission, which is investigating the fatal shooting, said the bullet and a non-police-issue handgun found at the scene had been sent for forensic tests.
Hence why I assumed the IPCC were investigating the shooting. If that is wrong I blame the Guardian and their half arsed reporting, bloody lefties ;-)
Just watched a jewellery shop g mantella get smashed and looted a chemist with the poor sod still in it holding thevdeal doors as 50 or just totalled it , then the cafe getting out of here now as this is getting nasty, running fights with oldc bill the whole place is going to get ruined tonight with out a doubt,
they are looting jjb comet currys toys r us litterally yards from my home
You are wrong. The IPCC ARE the investigators. 'This case was referred to the IPCC immediately and we declared it an independent investigation.' They have a number or functions, one of which is to consider complaints but they are statutorily required to investigate or manage certain investigations. As is clear from the IPCC website they will be the investigators and are wholly independent of any other agency.
As for Shine and Colt - thanks for the concession but to accept what a journo says shows commendable faith - especially after the last few months with the NOTW scandal.
I agree totally with Rodney but alas it is the environment in which we are living. I have only posted to try and correct misstatements so apologies if I have become a little exasperated at times. I think when tragedies like this occur (and for the families and kids involved it is always a tragedy whatever the deceased may have done) we should not jump to conclusions.
this is absolutely shocking people acting like its the middle ages. people wanna take libertys then they need to put back into place. army - riot police - water cannons - rubber bullets - cs gas. then watch our tough these scumbags are then.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of all this, and I don't know so I'm not commenting one way or the other, the one certainty is that innocent, unconnected people are suffering as a result.
paul its gone fucking mental, i aint seen anything like it in my life, running fights with ob, but the policing is poor really poor, i watched 1 old bill van outside the george pub it pulled off and within seconds the jewelers was done not a copper in site,
This is just criminality by thugs. People are losing their jobs and businesses as a result of this 'free for all'. Police need to get their fingers out batter the crap out of these scum.
it is a free for all mate not enough old bill thyere are 100's of young men and stupid girls getting a real buzz out of doing this it is mental absolute mental, the thing is this was all over face book surely it could have been dealt with
Comments
Do you have Alzhiemer's??? Re-read your posts and mine. You first referred to a 'Bristol' case (it was Surrey) and said that the police were corrupt in relation to that. My response has been made to you on that (and your idiotic shoot them in the legs suggestion.)
The Tottenham matter is one on which I have not commented. IMO unless any statement is on the IPCC website (and NO I do not work for the IPCC either) I would not rely upon it as coming from the IPCC. Too many rumours and some may be malicious or wilful thinking.
The trouble is that even stating that 'it does not directly quote the IPCC' is itself misleading. The Guardian doesn't purport to mention the IPCC so why did you add it? Because 'it does back up my thoughts'??? That is really a very poor excuse. By all means have an opinion and if you want to then express it but for heaven's sake be accurate.
I think you are being a tad hasty in your criticism. The Guardian reports a "reliable" source, who I presume is someone at the forensics/ballistics lab. So presumably this leak came from the police themselves or someone close to them.
The IPCC do not investigate the incident, their job is to ensure that complaints about the police are taken seriously and investigated throroughly. they will not be conducting an enquiry into the shooting of Duggan, but making sure that whether the police acted lawfully.
Those who play with fire shouldn't complain about getting burnt and all that, but it does raise questions about a shoot first and ask questions later policy which is fine if you want that kind of policing. Let's just hope that the police always get their man and not in the case of Jean Charles de Menezes confuse him someone totally different.
Found this whole thing thoroughly depressing to be honest from the shooting to what has followed. Really sad state of affairs.
Roll on the next Charlton win and the escape from reality!
they are looting jjb comet currys toys r us litterally yards from my home
You are wrong. The IPCC ARE the investigators. 'This case was referred to the IPCC immediately and we declared it an independent investigation.'
They have a number or functions, one of which is to consider complaints
but they are statutorily required to investigate or manage certain
investigations. As is clear from the IPCC website they will be the
investigators and are wholly independent of any other agency.
As for Shine and Colt - thanks for the concession but to accept what a
journo says shows commendable faith - especially after the last few
months with the NOTW scandal.
I agree totally with Rodney but alas it is the environment in which we
are living. I have only posted to try and correct misstatements so
apologies if I have become a little exasperated at times. I think when
tragedies like this occur (and for the families and kids involved it is
always a tragedy whatever the deceased may have done) we should not
jump to conclusions.
I hope all is ok NLA.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of all this, and I don't know so I'm not commenting one way or the other, the one certainty is that innocent, unconnected people are suffering as a result.
Ray