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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
Comments
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Jones will hopefully have learned that joining a club mid-season isn't really the thing for him. For all he saved us from relegation in 23/24 - and he did - that was a club that should have been pushing to get back to the Championship so it wasn't a hugely impressive feat finishing 16th. He improved things but he couldn't turn what we had into quality because the players and the mindset weren't aligned with him. He joined Saints and Stoke mid-season and never recovered from the fact there was already an established team, culture and mentality.At both clubs he could never overcome the player power, and that's not that surprising because the higher up you go the harder it is to shift the problem players out. At Charlton the players lacking the mentality or the talent were coming up to the end of their contracts anyway and if not were pretty easy to shift because of their low wages. At Stoke there were players apparently on £80k a week and players on more than that at Southampton in the Premier League. The manager is always going to lose out in those struggles and I think the best thing for Jones is to get hold of a club when it's lower down and it's more practical for him to impose his requirements on the place and then drag it up with him. Realisitically what high end Championship or struggling Premier League club is going to let him turf out all the players he doesn't think work hard enough in short order, probably taking a loss on their transfer fees and then buy 10+ players that he says he needs at a high level. At that point it's genuinely cheaper just to try and pay Mourinho to come in and somehow it causes less chaos.At the moment he's got full support from the board, the players he chose and a coaching setup that he wants after two years of hard graft. He's not going to be able to go to Fulham and convince them to let him sign Luke Berry to show Adama Traore how to train properly and turf out millions worth of talent to bring in some grafters to settle into 4 consecutive 0-0s before the good football starts to work its way in. What he's got right now is the best and only way he can show people what he's about, I think he'll recognise that rather than trying to skip ahead again. If he does get lured away I reckon within a year he'll be popping up at someone like Huddersfield and trying to restart the whole thing from scratch yet again.19
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He’ll definitely be on clubs radars but I think he realises that he has something at The Valley that at least for the foreseeable future is still building. Can’t see a Premiership job for him and I really think he’d be mad to entertain the idea of jumping to any of the current Championship clubs. He was badly stung at Stoke and Southampton and if he eventually wants a PL job I think he’d needs to build his reputation back up so why not at Charlton where he has already earned almost legendary status. The one position that worries me is if the Wales job comes a calling. I personally don’t see Nathan as an international manager. I think he needs that day to day involvement which international managers just can’t get.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Agreed. The only roles that i think could tempt him would be if there was a huge club in this division (like Leeds) or a club close to his heart (Cardiff) but looking at the current clubs in this division, i can't really see any role he'd consider leaving us for.Henry Irving said:
I hope/wish he's learnt his lesson from jumping ship to Stoke and Southampton that the grass isn't always greener and that he won't always get the level of board and fan support, let alone player buy in that he's got now.SheedyCAFC said:Nathan Jones is gonna be linked with other Championship clubs when they start sacking their managers, hope we can get through the whole season with him still in charge
I can't see him going anywhere but I'm sure he'll be linked to vacancies regardless.
Yes there are plenty of clubs who'd pay him more, but i think he's been there done that and would now value the job security, support of the board and love from the fans over a few extra quid in another role he might go to and get sacked from in 6 months.
It's also not the same as him leaving Luton who got 10k crowds. We're a reasonable sized club at this level getting 20k+ each game.3 -
Hard to believe that this thread is only 12 months old. Look how far we've come already.
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Turns out that xG might actually be quite a good predictor on long term chances of success.UEAAddick said:
It's because the only stat that matters is scoring more than opposition and winning the game.Callumcafc said:
I mean they only had 0.56 xG so about in keeping with what they manage every other game but yeah, you got me!MrOneLung said:
Callum has been hoisted by his own petardCovered End said:
We were 3-0 down to the team with the worst Xg/Xa.Callumcafc said:Six league games lost after 25 in charge.
I really can’t get behind any calls to sack another manager when he stopped the bleeding post Holden & Appleton.
If this losing run continues much longer maybe there’s a conversation to have approaching Christmas.
Why did they score 3 times from 0.56 xG against us and not anybody else??? Because we’re Charlton and we’re cursed.
Bristol Rovers may have won the game on the night thanks to the only stat that matters but they've been shocking ever since and are now 16th in League Two.
Yes the pettiness inside of me is untamable when I re-read this thread from last year.6 -
Charlton and Jones are a good fit for eachother.Garrymanilow said:Jones will hopefully have learned that joining a club mid-season isn't really the thing for him. For all he saved us from relegation in 23/24 - and he did - that was a club that should have been pushing to get back to the Championship so it wasn't a hugely impressive feat finishing 16th. He improved things but he couldn't turn what we had into quality because the players and the mindset weren't aligned with him. He joined Saints and Stoke mid-season and never recovered from the fact there was already an established team, culture and mentality.At both clubs he could never overcome the player power, and that's not that surprising because the higher up you go the harder it is to shift the problem players out. At Charlton the players lacking the mentality or the talent were coming up to the end of their contracts anyway and if not were pretty easy to shift because of their low wages. At Stoke there were players apparently on £80k a week and players on more than that at Southampton in the Premier League. The manager is always going to lose out in those struggles and I think the best thing for Jones is to get hold of a club when it's lower down and it's more practical for him to impose his requirements on the place and then drag it up with him. Realisitically what high end Championship or struggling Premier League club is going to let him turf out all the players he doesn't think work hard enough in short order, probably taking a loss on their transfer fees and then buy 10+ players that he says he needs at a high level. At that point it's genuinely cheaper just to try and pay Mourinho to come in and somehow it causes less chaos.At the moment he's got full support from the board, the players he chose and a coaching setup that he wants after two years of hard graft. He's not going to be able to go to Fulham and convince them to let him sign Luke Berry to show Adama Traore how to train properly and turf out millions worth of talent to bring in some grafters to settle into 4 consecutive 0-0s before the good football starts to work its way in. What he's got right now is the best and only way he can show people what he's about, I think he'll recognise that rather than trying to skip ahead again. If he does get lured away I reckon within a year he'll be popping up at someone like Huddersfield and trying to restart the whole thing from scratch yet again.
Can't see that changing anytime soon.
He seems so much more relaxed lately, although we wouldn't want him to stop running up and down the touchline like a fruit loop during the game.
He came in we were at our lowest point for a while and built us back up.
There was only going to be one winner between him and Andy Scott seeing as he was the owners choice for manager.
We are all currently reaping the benefits of buying into his plan.
Long may it continue.4 -
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If you say so.Callumcafc said:.2 -
Think me mentioned the Stoke tenure, he said 'I have enjoyed my time in the championship, except at one club'Sword65pf said:He may be a nutter, but he isn’t stupid either. Nathan and CAFC fit, he is in total control which is integral to him being successful due to his ego. The Southampton thing really smarts on him even in the interview the other night he referred to it. He knows Charlton as a club perform best when there is a point to prove, exactly like himself, he is being backed and appears to be loving life with us, long may it continue.1 -
I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones is great.
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Oh ok, could have been either reallyIR94 said:
Think me mentioned the Stoke tenure, he said 'I have enjoyed my time in the championship, except at one club'Sword65pf said:He may be a nutter, but he isn’t stupid either. Nathan and CAFC fit, he is in total control which is integral to him being successful due to his ego. The Southampton thing really smarts on him even in the interview the other night he referred to it. He knows Charlton as a club perform best when there is a point to prove, exactly like himself, he is being backed and appears to be loving life with us, long may it continue.0 -
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Well, except Southampton were in the Prem at the time, so he can't have been refering to them.3
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West Ham fans could not stand his kind of football, they would make his life a misery.Greenhithe said:
West Ham?Chris_from_Sidcup said:
What PL club would realistically offer him the job?carly burn said:I'm pretty sure he yearns to prove his ability at the very top. It's not difficult to assume Southampton left a very bitter taste in his mouth.
But would he leave us for a PL gig? Doubtful. They'd probably be in serious distress and he'd have a short turnaround to make his stamp1 -
Should he leave now, who do you think the owners would go for? I guess JJ would be in the mix, but hopefully it will be a safe pair of hands, unlike Curbs replacement!1
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Jones has everything he wants here, almost total control. It’s rare for managers to have this so I can’t see him jumping unless it’s to the Premier league. But that’s very unlikely, Jones is still the last manager to be recruited by the PL from the EFL, it’s rare and it not going well has probably put teams off
I think he definitely wants to prove he can do it at the top level, but his best chance of getting there is probably with us. As long as we have the ambition (I think this summer proves we do) then he won’t leave4 -
I never find it best to evaluate after a good win and things going well.
We’ve got over the hump point of Jones needing both control and his squad settled. So this should be peak point tbh.
my concern is that his character is his strength but can also be his weakness. He needs buy in. Well go on a bad run at some point, that’s football. Can Jones get through that without falling out with a dozen players and ‘losing the dressing room’? Can he not fall out with fans again when some criticism comes his way after a defeat?Time will tell. I’ve no doubt that equally Jones remains hugely ambitious to push and test himself at the highest level he can.At 1 year and 259 days, he’s currently the 30th longest serving manager in England. As it stands, I’m confident he’ll be with us longer to be top 20.10 -
Yeah good point, but he seems to need that me against the world attitude to really push himself, he’s achieving that now with us on board.But as a club historically that’s when we’ve been at our best.AFKABartram said:I never find it best to evaluate after a good win and things going well.
We’ve got over the hump point of Jones needing both control and his squad settled. So this should be peak point tbh.
my concern is that his character is his strength but can also be his weakness. He needs buy in. Well go on a bad run at some point, that’s football. Can Jones get through that without falling out with a dozen players and ‘losing the dressing room’? Can he not fall out with fans again when some criticism comes his way after a defeat?Time will tell. I’ve no doubt that equally Jones remains hugely ambitious to push and test himself at the highest level he can.At 1 year and 259 days, he’s currently the 30th longest serving manager in England. As it stands, I’m confident he’ll be with us longer to be top 20.3 -
I will admit that (completely aside from his ability, which is proven) I still find it harder to warm to him on a personal level compared to someone like SCP.
Which doesn't mean that I don't think he's going a fantastic job or that he will "lose the dressing room" for what it's worth. I just find his intensity a bit much.5 -
I think that’s just the modern way. Pep, Arteta, Klopp, Tuchel etc. are all very intensethenewbie said:I will admit that (completely aside from his ability, which is proven) I still find it harder to warm to him on a personal level compared to someone like SCP.
Which doesn't mean that I don't think he's going a fantastic job or that he will "lose the dressing room" for what it's worth. I just find his intensity a bit much.1 -
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I think what he has done is beyond a miracle but as thenewbie says I just can’t warm to him.
He’s just so arsey, still harping back to Bristol Rovers when we were a disgrace and surely he’d expect fans to be disgruntled . He was wank at Stoke and still bitching about them .
He’s been sooooo brilliant for us and I so want to love him unconditionally like the previous gods like SCP and Curbs but I just can’t and it’s really annoying me .
It’s my issue and i‘ll have to deal with it internally but long may he reign over us (while we’re on this upwards trajectory)
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Wasn’t his point about this exactly what you’re saying? That we were crap and people were right to be annoyed. He was saying that we’ve improved a lot since then which is indisputableoohaahmortimer said:I think what he has done is beyond a miracle but as thenewbie says I just can’t warm to him.
He’s just so arsey, still harping back to Bristol Rovers when we were a disgrace and surely he’d expect fans to be disgruntled . He was wank at Stoke and still bitching about them .
He’s been sooooo brilliant for us and I so want to love him unconditionally like the previous gods like SCP and Curbs but I just can’t and it’s really annoying me .
It’s my issue and i‘ll have to deal with it internally but long may he reign over us (while we’re on this upwards trajectory)2 -
Can always go back tofenaddick said:
I think that’s just the modern way. Pep, Arteta, Klopp, Tuchel etc. are all very intensethenewbie said:I will admit that (completely aside from his ability, which is proven) I still find it harder to warm to him on a personal level compared to someone like SCP.
Which doesn't mean that I don't think he's going a fantastic job or that he will "lose the dressing room" for what it's worth. I just find his intensity a bit much.
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You could argue that he's been through that already. 13th in the league, 15 points off 2nd, the fans turning and him giving it back to them, we'd just lost to Crawley at home and been slapped about by an Orient side who weren't even really trying. There was plenty of speculation on this thread that he'd lost the dressing room. That was the most likely time for a collapse to happen, when he was still the comedy manager who had been binned after three months at Southampton and nine at Stoke and could only succeed at Luton with all his favourites around him. He kept them all with him though, supported the players even when it got him ridicule - remember how much grief he got for calling Gillesphey 'our best technician' when he was criticised for his diagonal passes - and when things clicked they clicked fast because the players were willing to run through brick walls for him. He must be so far in credit with this squad now that it could take a spectacular collapse in judgment from him to lose them off a bad run. It's not impossible but I think he's shown that alienating the players is unlikely to be the thing that kills him suddenly.AFKABartram said:I never find it best to evaluate after a good win and things going well.
We’ve got over the hump point of Jones needing both control and his squad settled. So this should be peak point tbh.
my concern is that his character is his strength but can also be his weakness. He needs buy in. Well go on a bad run at some point, that’s football. Can Jones get through that without falling out with a dozen players and ‘losing the dressing room’? Can he not fall out with fans again when some criticism comes his way after a defeat?Time will tell. I’ve no doubt that equally Jones remains hugely ambitious to push and test himself at the highest level he can.At 1 year and 259 days, he’s currently the 30th longest serving manager in England. As it stands, I’m confident he’ll be with us longer to be top 20.1 -
oohaahmortimer said:
this echoes my feelings entirelyI think what he has done is beyond a miracle but as thenewbie says I just can’t warm to him.
He’s just so arsey, still harping back to Bristol Rovers when we were a disgrace and surely he’d expect fans to be disgruntled . He was wank at Stoke and still bitching about them .
He’s been sooooo brilliant for us and I so want to love him unconditionally like the previous gods like SCP and Curbs but I just can’t and it’s really annoying me .
It’s my issue and i‘ll have to deal with it internally but long may he reign over us (while we’re on this upwards trajectory)
what he's done and where he is now he should be able to let it all speak for itself but there's still that disguised bragging... even the other day talking about Bree's set pieces and he loved to slip in there "bearing in mind who i've worked with Ward-Prowse etc" (i.e. I'm above this, by the way)
neutrals messaging me the other day saying that ipswich must have been up there with best away days but whilst I loved it i just can't feel the same way about NJ i'm sorry to say and I really wish I could
completely respect and bow down to what he's done/doing. I watched yesterday braziliance blog from post mansfield last december when he spoke to me and my mate at half time and he has made my comments look fucking stupid as hell (as old Callum will smugly allude to
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but equally even watching them back now I still think everything I was saying and thinking back then was fully justified, fair and rational.... but he's performed an effing miracle since then and for that I continue to and will always be grateful and hope and pray he continues to smash it and who knows, please lord gets us back to rightful place as No.1 in South London
but I just don't think I'll ever be able to love him and I can't help but feel a longing jealousy seeing Jacko smashing it at AFC
(Ps I hope you're not reading this NJ, if you are we all worship you really!)3 -
CaptainRobbo said:
Can always go back tofenaddick said:
I think that’s just the modern way. Pep, Arteta, Klopp, Tuchel etc. are all very intensethenewbie said:I will admit that (completely aside from his ability, which is proven) I still find it harder to warm to him on a personal level compared to someone like SCP.
Which doesn't mean that I don't think he's going a fantastic job or that he will "lose the dressing room" for what it's worth. I just find his intensity a bit much.
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Totally get you’re point of view, I think it’s down to peoples own character as to whether they find it too much or not, I don’t personally find it offensive in fact it gets to the point I find it quite funny!, what I do love though is his passion and how it transfers onto the pitch.rather have Nathan’s approach over Appleton, extreme comparison I know.all that said let’s not forget he’s a bloody good manager.thenewbie said:I will admit that (completely aside from his ability, which is proven) I still find it harder to warm to him on a personal level compared to someone like SCP.
Which doesn't mean that I don't think he's going a fantastic job or that he will "lose the dressing room" for what it's worth. I just find his intensity a bit much.0 -
But that arseyness is what drives him, he has tried to engage better with the fans….. but then can’t help himself.lol. Honestly he can be an arse if he continues the way he is.oohaahmortimer said:I think what he has done is beyond a miracle but as thenewbie says I just can’t warm to him.
He’s just so arsey, still harping back to Bristol Rovers when we were a disgrace and surely he’d expect fans to be disgruntled . He was wank at Stoke and still bitching about them .
He’s been sooooo brilliant for us and I so want to love him unconditionally like the previous gods like SCP and Curbs but I just can’t and it’s really annoying me .
It’s my issue and i‘ll have to deal with it internally but long may he reign over us (while we’re on this upwards trajectory)2 -
Just win games3
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I think the Ward Prowse comment was just to highlight how good Bree is because Ward Prowse is a renowned free-kick specialist, he is joint second in the list of most free-kick goals in Premier League historypaulsturgess said:oohaahmortimer said:
this echoes my feelings entirelyI think what he has done is beyond a miracle but as thenewbie says I just can’t warm to him.
He’s just so arsey, still harping back to Bristol Rovers when we were a disgrace and surely he’d expect fans to be disgruntled . He was wank at Stoke and still bitching about them .
He’s been sooooo brilliant for us and I so want to love him unconditionally like the previous gods like SCP and Curbs but I just can’t and it’s really annoying me .
It’s my issue and i‘ll have to deal with it internally but long may he reign over us (while we’re on this upwards trajectory)
what he's done and where he is now he should be able to let it all speak for itself but there's still that disguised bragging... even the other day talking about Bree's set pieces and he loved to slip in there "bearing in mind who i've worked with Ward-Prowse etc" (i.e. I'm above this, by the way)
neutrals messaging me the other day saying that ipswich must have been up there with best away days but whilst I loved it i just can't feel the same way about NJ i'm sorry to say and I really wish I could
completely respect and bow down to what he's done/doing. I watched yesterday braziliance blog from post mansfield last december when he spoke to me and my mate at half time and he has made my comments look fucking stupid as hell (as old Callum will smugly allude to )
but equally even watching them back now I still think everything I was saying and thinking back then was fully justified, fair and rational.... but he's performed an effing miracle since then and for that I continue to and will always be grateful and hope and pray he continues to smash it and who knows, please lord gets us back to rightful place as No.1 in South London
but I just don't think I'll ever be able to love him and I can't help but feel a longing jealousy seeing Jacko smashing it at AFC
(Ps I hope you're not reading this NJ, if you are we all worship you really!)3
