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++Charlie Kelman signs on a 4 year deal++
Comments
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You're absolutely right, but I can't for the life of me understand why? He runs around a lot less than Godden and gets nowhere near anything flashed across the box.Laddick01 said:We do seem to look better with Kelman on the pitch at the moment. Hard to tell if his blocked effort was going in today, but I did think the defender did very well and Charlie wasn’t particularly slow to shoot.
But somehow he's making us tick. We look weaker when he goes off.
It's bizarre2 -
NJ after the game mentioned the cross by Carey that Kelman didn't attackOff_it said:
"Anyone who has a different opinion to me doesn't watch the game". Right-o Gunnersauraus!SELR_addicks said:Too many people here that look at the score/stats only and don't watch the games.
Kelman was one of our better players today.
I thought Kelman had a decent enough game and put in a lot of effort. But, for those that are saying he just needs the chances, as someone said earlier, we put in a couple of really good crosses that were meat and drink for a predatory striker, and unfortunately he was nowhere near them.
I think we all want him to come good - and I haven't seen any comments hoping he will fail - but there will come a point where it's difficult to justify starting him every game. But as long as we are winning and the team is working well together, that time probably isn't right now.
Carey flashed a dangerous ball across the face of goal in the first period that had nobody in the right place to convert from close range.
“That is where [Charlie] Kelman should be,” said Jones. “Kelman is working so hard and looks a threat with his movement - he just needs a goal. But those are the ones I expect you to be at. He (Kelman) looked for the cutback but we have attacking midfielders who come for cutbacks. We want him finishing that.”3 -
He does that all the time. he must of got a hatful at Orient from pull backs is all I can think of??killerandflash said:
NJ after the game mentioned the cross by Carey that Kelman didn't attackOff_it said:
"Anyone who has a different opinion to me doesn't watch the game". Right-o Gunnersauraus!SELR_addicks said:Too many people here that look at the score/stats only and don't watch the games.
Kelman was one of our better players today.
I thought Kelman had a decent enough game and put in a lot of effort. But, for those that are saying he just needs the chances, as someone said earlier, we put in a couple of really good crosses that were meat and drink for a predatory striker, and unfortunately he was nowhere near them.
I think we all want him to come good - and I haven't seen any comments hoping he will fail - but there will come a point where it's difficult to justify starting him every game. But as long as we are winning and the team is working well together, that time probably isn't right now.
Carey flashed a dangerous ball across the face of goal in the first period that had nobody in the right place to convert from close range.
“That is where [Charlie] Kelman should be,” said Jones. “Kelman is working so hard and looks a threat with his movement - he just needs a goal. But those are the ones I expect you to be at. He (Kelman) looked for the cutback but we have attacking midfielders who come for cutbacks. We want him finishing that.”
He purposely slows up as he approaches the 18yard box.
It's clever play, but not when your wide players are on a different wave length0 -
Real shame Iorfa got subbed off, as he was linking up very well with Kelman.9
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Agree he’s not getting on the end of crosses and passes into the box often enough, but I don’t think running and effort is a problem.carly burn said:
You're absolutely right, but I can't for the life of me understand why? He runs around a lot less than Godden and gets nowhere near anything flashed across the box.Laddick01 said:We do seem to look better with Kelman on the pitch at the moment. Hard to tell if his blocked effort was going in today, but I did think the defender did very well and Charlie wasn’t particularly slow to shoot.
But somehow he's making us tick. We look weaker when he goes off.
It's bizarre0 -
I know he hasn’t scored yet but I have faith in him. He is a very talented footballer who was brought into a system he didn’t necessarily fit or plays to his strengths and he has still managed to adaptwell. I think he just needs that 1 goal. Was unlucky to not get one today.3
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How was he unlucky not to score today? Been racking my brain but can't think of any particular bad luck.aso914 said:I know he hasn’t scored yet but I have faith in him. He is a very talented footballer who was brought into a system he didn’t necessarily fit or plays to his strengths and he has still managed to adaptwell. I think he just needs that 1 goal. Was unlucky to not get one today.0 -
He deffo has talent, but with Godden nearing, and Tanto and Leaburn waiting, no matter how good he plays, if he ain't scoring, his place must surely be under threat.1
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I think there's a player there but we really need our forwards to start scoring. I'm not sure him and TC partnership should carry on. You could argue Oloafe and Kelman to start and TC and Leaburn might be the better partnerships1
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Suberb bit of defending on his chance in the first half not much more he could have done there. Think that is a goal in a different game.Off_it said:
How was he unlucky not to score today? Been racking my brain but can't think of any particular bad luck.aso914 said:I know he hasn’t scored yet but I have faith in him. He is a very talented footballer who was brought into a system he didn’t necessarily fit or plays to his strengths and he has still managed to adaptwell. I think he just needs that 1 goal. Was unlucky to not get one today.3 -
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I agree! No ones spot is secure even someone’s whose cost 3 million and if others start scoring by all means replace him but I think at the moment we should give him a chance especially when none of our other forwards are goal scoring machines at the moment either.IR94 said:He deffo has talent, but with Godden nearing, and Tanto and Leaburn waiting, no matter how good he plays, if he ain't scoring, his place must surely be under threat.2 -
I think it’s harsh to judge Kelman just by the fact he hasn’t scored. When we start to supply lots of chances per game and he either starts to score or miss a hatful is when it will be a fair judgement. We don’t play to his strengths, but trust in NJ to eventually sort that out which may take slightly longer in the championship. At the moment Charlie is doing what the manager is asking of him as he is starting every game. I think he will come good, not giving up on the fella yet. Feels slightly similar to getting Godden going last season with balancing style of play and the player.0
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Some nice touches but once again he was a proper pussio half heartedly going in to a 50-50 when if he’d gone in properly it may have broken for him clear of the last defender just in front of the west stand in the first half .
He shirked it like he did with the Derby keeper , proper lame effort .10 -
I don't think the lack of goals is the right stick to beat him with because none of the other strikers are goal machines either - Tanto and Leaburn are the highest scoring CFs with a whopping one each.
The lack of goals is definitely an issue but I'm inclined to see Kelman's lack of goals as a symptom not the cause.5 -
Interesting point in Cawley’s interview with NJ on Substack. Essentially says Kelman is moving into the space our midfielders attack and looking for the cutback rather than entering the 6 yard box. I didn’t watch a lot of Orient last year but wouldn’t be surprised if their midfielders attacked differently so he’s just getting used to our movement2
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Jonesy does talk some shite ya know.killerandflash said:
NJ after the game mentioned the cross by Carey that Kelman didn't attackOff_it said:
"Anyone who has a different opinion to me doesn't watch the game". Right-o Gunnersauraus!SELR_addicks said:Too many people here that look at the score/stats only and don't watch the games.
Kelman was one of our better players today.
I thought Kelman had a decent enough game and put in a lot of effort. But, for those that are saying he just needs the chances, as someone said earlier, we put in a couple of really good crosses that were meat and drink for a predatory striker, and unfortunately he was nowhere near them.
I think we all want him to come good - and I haven't seen any comments hoping he will fail - but there will come a point where it's difficult to justify starting him every game. But as long as we are winning and the team is working well together, that time probably isn't right now.
Carey flashed a dangerous ball across the face of goal in the first period that had nobody in the right place to convert from close range.
“That is where [Charlie] Kelman should be,” said Jones. “Kelman is working so hard and looks a threat with his movement - he just needs a goal. But those are the ones I expect you to be at. He (Kelman) looked for the cutback but we have attacking midfielders who come for cutbacks. We want him finishing that.”“He looks dangerous with his movement but for fucks sake he should’ve been on that one he needs to work on his movement”1 -
I think there is a player there but the combination of our overall style and TC just simply not the partner for him is not helping him…
To play the role he needs to learn how to hold up - he doesn’t use his body, the ball comes towards him and he expects to be able to just control it unchallenged as though nobody’s allowed to tackle him until you have the ball under control, lad needs to grow an arse and get his elbows out, you look at the way Bell or Carey shove into any opposition player around them with whatever is the nearest part of their body to give them a bit of space to get it under or push the oppo off before they start to dribble
he reminds me of myself when I was a teenager and first started playing men’s football and suddenly got big bastards coming through the back of you and I didn’t know to do. Learn to use your body1 -
Apart from last season with Orient, he has not scored many goals.
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Disagree. From where I was sitting I thought he could potentially have done a lot better with that chance. Certainly wasn't "unlucky". Was actually disappointing he didn't make more of it.aso914 said:
Suberb bit of defending on his chance in the first half not much more he could have done there. Think that is a goal in a different game.Off_it said:
How was he unlucky not to score today? Been racking my brain but can't think of any particular bad luck.aso914 said:I know he hasn’t scored yet but I have faith in him. He is a very talented footballer who was brought into a system he didn’t necessarily fit or plays to his strengths and he has still managed to adaptwell. I think he just needs that 1 goal. Was unlucky to not get one today.
Also in the first half there was a straight ball through the middle where he was looking over the wrong shoulder as the ball dropped the other side. Would've been a difficult chance, but he just got it wrong.2 -
Forgot about that. You're right. Was like a young boy trying to tackle his dad in the garden.oohaahmortimer said:Some nice touches but once again he was a proper pussio half heartedly going in to a 50-50 when if he’d gone in properly it may have broken for him clear of the last defender just in front of the west stand in the first half .
He shirked it like he did with the Derby keeper , proper lame effort .2 -
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Obviously football is played on grass not on paper but the only thing Kelman is in the top 50% of all championship strikers for is possession won in the final 3rd is that not concerning to anyone at all.May be an unpopular opinion but his price tag and form the season before is protecting him because fans may not want to admit our big signing is struggling very similar situation to Nicky Ajose.There’s a player there and hes shown glimpses of quality on what he can bring but we can’t go 46 games saying he presses well and can hold the ball up otherwise he’s just another Connor Washington.
Can say it’s coming soon but at some point he needs to show he’s a striker and has a hunger to score goals like we’ve seen in May and Godden. It’s only 10 games so not giving up on him yet and he’s not a bad player and I’m hope I’m wrong but I’m Struggling to see where the 3M in quality is.3 -
What is protecting him, is he doing the other roles of a forward better than Leaburn and Olaofe, the press, theCrispywood said:Obviously football is played on grass not on paper but the only thing Kelman is in the top 50% of all championship strikers for is possession won in the final 3rd is that not concerning to anyone at all.May be an unpopular opinion but his price tag and form the season before is protecting him because fans may not want to admit our big signing is struggling very similar situation to Nicky Ajose.There’s a player there and hes shown glimpses of quality on what he can bring but we can’t go 46 games saying he presses well and can hold the ball up otherwise he’s just another Connor Washington.
Can say it’s coming soon but at some point he needs to show he’s a striker and has a hunger to score goals like we’ve seen in May and Godden. It’s only 10 games so not giving up on him yet and he’s not a bad player and I’m hope I’m wrong but I’m Struggling to see where the 3M in quality is.
the getting back to defend, as TC is doing as well. With TC most teams have to double up on him. Sorry since his injuries Leaburn does not look like the good player he was before, Olaofe does look to be out of his depth at the moment.2 -
The facts are that this season he has played in 10 League matches + 2 Cup matches.
His record this season is No Goals scored and No Assists.
In this time he has hardly tested any goalkeeper, and hardly had any shots on target.
Yesterday against Sheffield Wednesday, with all of their problems.
This was probably his best chance of scoring a goal. But once again he failed miserably.
I think that enough is enough, and now he needs to be dropped.
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The lack of goals is a stick to beat Kelman with but let's not kid ourselves that this isn't affecting him too. Sometimes, that manifests itself in a lack of confidence to get into positions where he can score those goals as highlighted by NJ yesterday.
That's not to say that we shouldn't, however, appreciate what else he brings to the team. To evidence that and the reasons why NJ likes to start with Kelman here are the facts so far as this season is concerned:
Played - 10
Started - 8
Sub - 2
Minutes on pitch - 537
Minutes off pitch - 263
Team goals scored/conceded when Kelman on the pitch:
Scored when on pitch - 5
Scored when off pitch- 5
Conceded when on pitch - 3
Conceded when off pitch - 6
In the 8 games where Kelman has started we've scored 5 and conceded just 1 goal in a total of 500 minutes. In those remaining 220 minutes, after he's been taken off, we've scored 5 goals but we've conceded 4 times.
These are the minutes played and the score at the time Kelman was withdrawn:
Watford (71) 0-0
Bristol City (60) 0-0
Millwall (61) 1-0
Sheff Utd (61) 0-0
Blackburn (60) 1-0
Derby (57) 1-0
Preston (69) 0-1
Sheff Wed (61) 2-0
So the only game we were losing when Kelman departed the pitch was Preston. Interestingly, that goal was scored in the 67th minute when, ordinarily, he's already been taken off. Put another way, had those matches ended at the point Kelman was taken off then we would have taken 15 points from 8 matches.
Let's not get away from the fact that Kelman scoring would help not just the team but his own confidence too. We have to accept, equally, that he is a vital cog in how NJ wants us to play for the time he is on the pitch - for an hour or so he wants Kelman to occupy the CBs, run them ragged and stop the ball from coming straight back.
For the first game or two when he clearly wasn't match fit he struggled to do that. He's in no way a Carl Leaburn but that is exactly what he used to do - it was the fact that he didn't score as many as we would like him to that made him the brunt of some fans' criticism. If you asked those that played with him I think we might get a very different perspective and I'm sure that Kelman is equally appreciated by his teammates for what he brings to the side. He just needs a couple of goals to get him going.
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Yes but TC isn’t the player we are looking at to score our goals, Kelman is, and at the minute it seems that Kelman needs someone with a different dimension to TC. TC could probably do with a break too!killerandflash said:
TC had a major involvement in the first goal, whereas Kelman while having a couple of nice touches had no shots, and didn't create anything either.cafc_se7 said:
I’m sorry, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you are completely wrong. Kelman was absolutely brilliant today. People need to stop targeting Kelman and worry more about TC. That being said, TC doesn’t pick the side, that was my only criticism of NJ today that Oloafe should have started instead of TC and I am a huge fan of TC.Crispywood said:Starting to worry about these Kelman performances
Of late, I really do think TC would benefit coming off the bench as an impact player against stretched defences. I’m surprised this option hasn’t been explored yet because he is a dangerous player at the end of the day.0 -
Kelman has 537 minutes on the pitch in the league this season. Olaofe has 124.
It's a bit baffling why one summer signing has been given so long to establish himself in the No 9 role, despite the lack of goals or assists, while the other has had just cameos from the bench, despite actually having a goal and an assist.
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One thing i don't think is particularly helping him is the continual early subs. There's no reason why he should be tired, so keep him on for 80-85 minutes. Often games will become more stretched as it gets into the last 15 minutes and that'd be ideal for him.
Yesterday i would've liked to have seen Jones sub TC off for Olaofe and keep Kelman on.5 -
We all do seem to be making excuses for him now.
In some ways it's similar to Ahadme.
He's not playing as bad as Ahadme was. He's not had the raft of chances Ahadme had and results on the whole are not going against us like they were a year ago. So I expect Nathan to persist even longer
I'm pretty sure Tanto would be a able to match his record so far of not scoring any goals or for that matter getting chances.
However, if nothing else he would for my money be far more effective of making a nuisance of himself up top.0 -
He did show up and was MOM .. the fans sung his name when he was subbed again which changed the case when he went offIR94 said:Against the worst defence in the league (and by some distance), who was also missing their best CB, you expect him to show up, if he doesn't against them, then he won't against anyone at this level, and he showed some positives, and held the line well, but the fact that he still looked nowhere near like scoring is a big concern.6 -
Yeah, have to agree. It's a fair point. It probably comes down to justifying his high price.killerandflash said:Kelman has 537 minutes on the pitch in the league this season. Olaofe has 124.
It's a bit baffling why one summer signing has been given so long to establish himself in the No 9 role, despite the lack of goals or assists, while the other has had just cameos from the bench, despite actually having a goal and an assist.
Have to feel for the people on the bench who are coming on and making more of an impact.
Kelman has the ability to be a good player for us but not sure he deserves the continual starting role. NJ says it won't be the same eleven over the next two games so maybe another striker needs to take their chance.
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