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Savings and Investments thread
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You consider our financial services behind these countries do you ?Stu_of_Kunming said:
Just shows how behind the times the Uk is though, it’s used as currency in multiple other countries for fully legal and above board transactions.PragueAddick said:
I don't think it's a good idea to think about crypto in that way. Gold has intrinsic value. It is used to make jewellery and similar which retain or increase their value over time.Diebythesword said:Think of crypto like digital assets (a digital gold etc). Iirc FCA have relaxed their rules so you can now begin to invest in regulated bitcoin products with your SIPP and stocks and shares isa. Think it’s worth having small exposure to tbh.
Bitcoin is just a name. As is Melaniacoin, Turdcoin, etc. And please don't tell me it's a currency. When did you last buy something with bitcoin? And if you did buy something, was the item something you want to fess up to on a public platform?
Which nations are you referring to?2 -
Bought a handful more Rigetti today on the very short-lived dip. My old next door neighbour works for Oracle and suggested I take a look at quantum computing back in October last year.
Went in very light on that one and IONQ as speculative investments, and my timing could have been better (as ever) but no complaints about the subsequent performance of either.1 -
The NASDAQ is up 34%, S&P 23%, if you were in gold that's up 28%, Nikkei 37% - so all depends where you are invested.Friend Or Defoe said:
Not sure how your 6 month is so high?! I'm about the same YTD (16.5%) but only 2.5% over the month. I'm still about 1% down from where i was on Friday.Huskaris said:I'm up 23.36% over 12 months
17.63% YTD
30.18% over 6 months
8.47% over past month.
Bought my first bit of gold and silver in an ETF, bit I didn't want to do a full portfolio rebalance, so precious metals currently around 0.2% of my portfolio.
I refuse to buy crypto, for a variety of reasons that I don't see a need to get into as I don't want to yuk someone's yum, but I hold the wisdomtree Blockchain etf which invests in companies involved in crypto, about 4-5% of my total portfolio (reducing it to 2-3%), it's gone absolutely nuts, up 117% in 6 months.
Crpyto seems like a scam to me. Very volatile (I guess like Trump!) And i don't fully understand what it is to be frank. That said i did meet someone at a party who made £2m from it before most of us had heard of it. He's cashed in and has retired off of it.0 -
Regulated products =\= cryptoFriend Or Defoe said:
FCA regulated crypto is interesting.Diebythesword said:Think of crypto like digital assets (a digital gold etc). Iirc FCA have relaxed their rules so you can now begin to invest in regulated bitcoin products with your SIPP and stocks and shares isa. Think it’s worth having small exposure to tbh.
youd be able to buy a bitcoin etf with your SIPP and s&s isa
When did you last buy something with gold?PragueAddick said:
I don't think it's a good idea to think about crypto in that way. Gold has intrinsic value. It is used to make jewellery and similar which retain or increase their value over time.Diebythesword said:Think of crypto like digital assets (a digital gold etc). Iirc FCA have relaxed their rules so you can now begin to invest in regulated bitcoin products with your SIPP and stocks and shares isa. Think it’s worth having small exposure to tbh.
Bitcoin is just a name. As is Melaniacoin, Turdcoin, etc. And please don't tell me it's a currency. When did you last buy something with bitcoin? And if you did buy something, was the item something you want to fess up to on a public platform?0 -
The thing with crypto and to an extent gold is that by buying and investing into it you are backing the established way to fail. Which could be handy if you are sitting on a load of dubloons and bitcoin but if things go to shit that badly paying for things will be the least of your worries
I've dipped into crypto a few years ago, watched it go right down and right up and took most of my stake out. I've left transactional money in there for stuff you can't really buy with cash but I don't see that as an investment. Gold, its a bit less exciting than I thought it would be and I'm glad I've got a bit however if it carries on going up I will sell that albeit in a pain in the arse way
The other thing is people invested in gold and crypto make a very convincing emotional argument in favour which makes me smell a rat that may or may not be there1 -
The thing is if the world ends your investments will be the very least of your worries anyway (it’s why you should always buy a “nuclear war” dip). Bitcoin has shown it is just as sensitive to the market as any other asset.Carter said:The thing with crypto and to an extent gold is that by buying and investing into it you are backing the established way to fail. Which could be handy if you are sitting on a load of dubloons and bitcoin but if things go to shit that badly paying for things will be the least of your worries
I've dipped into crypto a few years ago, watched it go right down and right up and took most of my stake out. I've left transactional money in there for stuff you can't really buy with cash but I don't see that as an investment. Gold, its a bit less exciting than I thought it would be and I'm glad I've got a bit however if it carries on going up I will sell that albeit in a pain in the arse way
The other thing is people invested in gold and crypto make a very convincing emotional argument in favour which makes me smell a rat that may or may not be there
i agree, people who pitch bitcoin get emotional, but at the end of the day the proof is in its performance which has been exeptional, my worry is in 15-20 years when bull runs get less and less volatile, so the profitability goes down which brings their attractiveness as a risky asset right down. Maybe another digital asset would then takeover and the market “matures” but maybe not.There are many publically traded companies that have no intrinsic value that you’re no doubt invested in, meta, uber and Airbnb are ones that spring to mind immediately. They’re still worth something to investors.2 -
Crypto (for me) remains ‘Emperors new clothes’.Diebythesword said:
The thing is if the world ends your investments will be the very least of your worries anyway (it’s why you should always buy a “nuclear war” dip). Bitcoin has shown it is just as sensitive to the market as any other asset.Carter said:The thing with crypto and to an extent gold is that by buying and investing into it you are backing the established way to fail. Which could be handy if you are sitting on a load of dubloons and bitcoin but if things go to shit that badly paying for things will be the least of your worries
I've dipped into crypto a few years ago, watched it go right down and right up and took most of my stake out. I've left transactional money in there for stuff you can't really buy with cash but I don't see that as an investment. Gold, its a bit less exciting than I thought it would be and I'm glad I've got a bit however if it carries on going up I will sell that albeit in a pain in the arse way
The other thing is people invested in gold and crypto make a very convincing emotional argument in favour which makes me smell a rat that may or may not be there
i agree, people who pitch bitcoin get emotional, but at the end of the day the proof is in its performance which has been exeptional, my worry is in 15-20 years when bull runs get less and less volatile, so the profitability goes down which brings their attractiveness as a risky asset right down. Maybe another digital asset would then takeover and the market “matures” but maybe not.There are many publically traded companies that have no intrinsic value that you’re no doubt invested in, meta, uber and Airbnb are ones that spring to mind immediately. They’re still worth something to investors.Yes some have made money but only against the hype not (yet) because of any substantial real world application as far as I can see.It feels to me that whenever the price falls its advocates defend it as a planned or expected event but can’t really defend it.I’m sceptical as until its being meaningfully used to support something the ‘profits’ being taken surely only mean someone is losing somewhere. At least a traditional investment is cash being used by a business either well or not so well.3 -
The blockchain tech that sits behind it has numerous real work applications and is where the potential to actually impact lives but the currency part of crypto seems to have by accident become the only thing its really used for.
I remember a discussion with someone while I was at uni in 2013ish around how the tech could be used for voting or a much more direct form of democracy where people vote on individual policy positions. The potential applications are endless. But there is money in Crypto so thats been the focus.
I did make a bit of cash from Crypto in the early days -nothing like as much as a mate who got in at the same time and hasnt worked in 4 years and spends his time travelling. I dont mess with it now0 -
I have never owned any gold, other than my wedding ring. However I can easily get money for it from any number of physically existing outlets, and buy things with that money.Diebythesword said:
Regulated products =\= cryptoFriend Or Defoe said:
FCA regulated crypto is interesting.Diebythesword said:Think of crypto like digital assets (a digital gold etc). Iirc FCA have relaxed their rules so you can now begin to invest in regulated bitcoin products with your SIPP and stocks and shares isa. Think it’s worth having small exposure to tbh.
youd be able to buy a bitcoin etf with your SIPP and s&s isa
When did you last buy something with gold?PragueAddick said:
I don't think it's a good idea to think about crypto in that way. Gold has intrinsic value. It is used to make jewellery and similar which retain or increase their value over time.Diebythesword said:Think of crypto like digital assets (a digital gold etc). Iirc FCA have relaxed their rules so you can now begin to invest in regulated bitcoin products with your SIPP and stocks and shares isa. Think it’s worth having small exposure to tbh.
Bitcoin is just a name. As is Melaniacoin, Turdcoin, etc. And please don't tell me it's a currency. When did you last buy something with bitcoin? And if you did buy something, was the item something you want to fess up to on a public platform?You will doubtless say its the same for bitcoin. And good luck to you, it’s your money. But until Bitcoin functions according to clearly established international rules I’m not going near it.3 -
I have money in crypto, by no means a large amount, but its probably given some of my best returns. I've withdrawn my original investment on Solana and Bitcoin and just have the profit running in there at the minute. Other coins I've bought are almost all up on where I originally bought them at, bar a couple gambles which I didn't spend much on that haven't paid off. I'm confident I'm well up overall.
I'll probably buy more whenever it next tanks and wait for it to go on a bull run but I fully admit I don't really understand it or it's real world utility, but i'm also confident I can make pretty safe gambles and play the long game with it and it'll produce a tidy profit.1 -
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Does anybody else have a clue what this crypto language is on about? 🥸0
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I'll let you know when the FCA bring out guidance notes for advisers or set exams for us to take.Solidgone said:Does anybody else have a clue what this crypto language is on about? 🥸
But don't hold your breath...2 -
That's why I'm invested in an ETF with exposure to Blockchain businesses/businesses that are involved in buying and selling crypto. Coinbase for example is one of the biggest constituents of the ETF I have, as well as Terawulfcantersaddick said:The blockchain tech that sits behind it has numerous real work applications and is where the potential to actually impact lives but the currency part of crypto seems to have by accident become the only thing its really used for.
I remember a discussion with someone while I was at uni in 2013ish around how the tech could be used for voting or a much more direct form of democracy where people vote on individual policy positions. The potential applications are endless. But there is money in Crypto so thats been the focus.
I did make a bit of cash from Crypto in the early days -nothing like as much as a mate who got in at the same time and hasnt worked in 4 years and spends his time travelling. I dont mess with it now
Fundamentally it goes against all my basic logic to invest in crypto, but I do understand why Blockchain could be valuable, although for me it's still an answer desperately looking for a real solution!1 -
Not often we agree but this is pretty bang on!Huskaris said:
That's why I'm invested in an ETF with exposure to Blockchain businesses/businesses that are involved in buying and selling crypto. Coinbase for example is one of the biggest constituents of the ETF I have, as well as Terawulfcantersaddick said:The blockchain tech that sits behind it has numerous real work applications and is where the potential to actually impact lives but the currency part of crypto seems to have by accident become the only thing its really used for.
I remember a discussion with someone while I was at uni in 2013ish around how the tech could be used for voting or a much more direct form of democracy where people vote on individual policy positions. The potential applications are endless. But there is money in Crypto so thats been the focus.
I did make a bit of cash from Crypto in the early days -nothing like as much as a mate who got in at the same time and hasnt worked in 4 years and spends his time travelling. I dont mess with it now
Fundamentally it goes against all my basic logic to invest in crypto, but I do understand why Blockchain could be valuable, although for me it's still an answer desperately looking for a real solution!1 -
Well it's started, UK markets down today between 1.5 and 2%, be interesting to see what the American markets do later. I'll try not to catch the falling knife and get back in!0
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Sakes, what's he done now?Rob7Lee said:Well it's started, UK markets down today between 1.5 and 2%, be interesting to see what the American markets do later. I'll try not to catch the falling knife and get back in!3 -
I think it's to do with shitty American regional banks getting themselves into bother again.Friend Or Defoe said:
Sakes, what's he done now?Rob7Lee said:Well it's started, UK markets down today between 1.5 and 2%, be interesting to see what the American markets do later. I'll try not to catch the falling knife and get back in!
The big ones have been reporting healthy results in the last week or two. Not sure this can be pinned directly on the corrupt buffoon or his team of venal incompetents.
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There seem to have been quite a few Friday meltdowns (today isn't that bad yet though) followed by Monday/Tuesday rallies over the last few months. Must be very profitable for some.1
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I think that's it for me now, if this rebounds/stays steady I am going to do a belated @Rob7Lee and move into money markets etc and buy the inevitable dip.
The problem is that I was contemplating the same thing a year ago, and if I had done that I would have missed out a lot...
This is the first time I am starting to hear what is close to a consensus in this area, that markets are incredibly frothy0 -
Time in the market beats timing the market. We’re still in a bull market.3
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Except on Fridays (Based on the last 6 months).Diebythesword said:Time in the market beats timing the market. We’re still in a bull market.Average Market Change by Day of the WeekDay of the Week Average Daily Change Friday -0.46% Monday 0.97% Tuesday 0.92% Wednesday 0.01% Thursday 0.14% Calculated using Google Finance data. Might be shortened for brevity.
Edit - Looking at it again I think those AI generated figures I've posted above are a bit iffy. The trends correct though.0 -
There could well be a dip or correction in weeks or months to come. But if you stay in the market before that you might make enough that the dip just puts you back where you are now.Huskaris said:I think that's it for me now, if this rebounds/stays steady I am going to do a belated @Rob7Lee and move into money markets etc and buy the inevitable dip.
The problem is that I was contemplating the same thing a year ago, and if I had done that I would have missed out a lot...
This is the first time I am starting to hear what is close to a consensus in this area, that markets are incredibly frothy1 -
As an illustration of how difficult this is to call, I'll demonstrate how I have been de-risking by selling off chunks of my two long- held tech investment funds (which both show overall profit gains of around 300% from when I first bought). I started in late July and decided to sell a chunk (20-25%) and then another chunk after each further 3-5% increase. So the sales look like thisgolfaddick said:
There could well be a dip or correction in weeks or months to come. But if you stay in the market before that you might make enough that the dip just puts you back where you are now.Huskaris said:I think that's it for me now, if this rebounds/stays steady I am going to do a belated @Rob7Lee and move into money markets etc and buy the inevitable dip.
The problem is that I was contemplating the same thing a year ago, and if I had done that I would have missed out a lot...
This is the first time I am starting to hear what is close to a consensus in this area, that markets are incredibly frothy
Allianz Tech. Trust. Current price: 486p.
Sold at: 460; 475; and 510p.(since late August)
Polar Capital Tech. Trust. Current price:428p
Sold at 391; 411; 435;450; and 457 (since late July and from both SIPP and non-SIPP
Make what you will of that. Fortunately at least with investment trusts you can set minimum sale price, for a period into the future, e.g.30 days. You can't do that with unit trust funds. I still have outstanding sell orders for each of them if they hit 535 and 475p respectively.
I don't sell them because I think they are bad. On the contrary they have made me relatively a lot of money (thanks to @Rob7Lee for mentioning the Allianz fund on here way back). The problem is that recently a lot of other funds I hold have been investing in the same companies as these, so selling these is the simpler way to reduce my exposure to Musk (especially) and co.1 -
Markets made a decent rebound today. Still technically a roaring bull market.0
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What current funds are out there if I wish to scale back on some of my profits?0
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Do you mean taking profits on some of your higher risk equity-based investments?HardyAddick said:What current funds are out there if I wish to scale back on some of my profits?
If so, my answer would be Money Market funds from any of the big names, e.g Legal&General Cash, but others will have some more sophisticated ideas.1 -
It certainly is! Until it isn't...Diebythesword said:Markets made a decent rebound today. Still technically a roaring bull market.
Yeah this is the difficulty about making this decision. I do feel that price to earnings ratios are absolutely insane, indeed I think I've read that the last time they were this high was the dot-com bubble.golfaddick said:
There could well be a dip or correction in weeks or months to come. But if you stay in the market before that you might make enough that the dip just puts you back where you are now.Huskaris said:I think that's it for me now, if this rebounds/stays steady I am going to do a belated @Rob7Lee and move into money markets etc and buy the inevitable dip.
The problem is that I was contemplating the same thing a year ago, and if I had done that I would have missed out a lot...
This is the first time I am starting to hear what is close to a consensus in this area, that markets are incredibly frothy
I have no doubt that in the end AI will be massive and these companies will justify big valuations (much like a lot of companies in the dot-com boom) but I feel like there will need to be a big correction first. There seems to be a real toxic positivity (not from anyone in here, in the markets!) when for me, a lot of the fundamentals data doesn't back it up. Complacency isn't due to ignorance, it has become an actual choice.
Just to add, I'm not looking to go fully into cash, more looking at rebalancing my portfolio to have 20-25% in a 4.9%-ish overnight money market swap (CSH2 is the one I'm looking at). I do also completely agree that the equities market might grow to a point before the crash that it just puts me back here. My thought is that I would like to have a load of cash to buy back in when the fall comes, I am not in a situation currently where I could do that with anything close to a decent proportion of my existing portfolio from liquid cash I could get my hands on.
It's really frustrating trying to work out what to do to be honest. Having done some reading, I'm tempted now to just ride it all out
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Google searches for "help with mortgage" now now at a higher daily rate than just pre 2008 crash. Not quite accounting for per head searches and increased searching generally but latest in a string of worrying signs.0
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cantersaddick said:Google searches for "help with mortgage" now now at a higher daily rate than just pre 2008 crash. Not quite accounting for per head searches and increased searching generally but latest in a string of worrying signs.Not unexpected as more and more longer term fixed rate deals at very low percentages are reaching the end of their term, and percentages on current deals are creeping up.Still worrying, I agree.1
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Although mortgage defaults are at a multi year low.cantersaddick said:Google searches for "help with mortgage" now now at a higher daily rate than just pre 2008 crash. Not quite accounting for per head searches and increased searching generally but latest in a string of worrying signs.
the vast majority of time the market goes up. I blame the big short for romanticising being a bear, the reason these people got famous is because for the first time these people were actually right. Most of the time they’re wrong. I think the last time Michael burry tweeted to sell everything the market has gone up by like 50%Huskaris said:
It certainly is! Until it isn't...Diebythesword said:Markets made a decent rebound today. Still technically a roaring bull market.0
