Savings and Investments thread

Stu_of_Kunming said:

PragueAddick said:

Diebythesword said:

Think of crypto like digital assets (a digital gold etc). Iirc FCA have relaxed their rules so you can now begin to invest in regulated bitcoin products with your SIPP and stocks and shares isa. Think it’s worth having small exposure to tbh. 

I don't think it's a good idea to think about crypto in that way. Gold has intrinsic value. It is used to make jewellery and similar which retain or increase their value over time. 

Bitcoin is just a name. As is Melaniacoin, Turdcoin, etc. And please don't tell me it's a currency. When did you last buy something with bitcoin? And if you did buy something, was the item something you want to fess up to on a public platform?

Just shows how behind the times the Uk is though, it’s used as currency in multiple other countries for fully legal and above board transactions. 

You consider our financial services behind these countries do you ?

Which nations are you referring to?

Friend Or Defoe said:

Huskaris said:

I'm up 23.36% over 12 months
17.63% YTD
30.18% over 6 months
8.47% over past month. 

Bought my first bit of gold and silver in an ETF, bit I didn't want to do a full portfolio rebalance, so precious metals currently around 0.2% of my portfolio. 

I refuse to buy crypto, for a variety of reasons that I don't see a need to get into as I don't want to yuk someone's yum, but I hold the wisdomtree Blockchain etf which invests in companies involved in crypto, about 4-5% of my total portfolio (reducing it to 2-3%), it's gone absolutely nuts, up 117% in 6 months. 

Not sure how your 6 month is so high?! I'm about the same YTD (16.5%) but only 2.5% over the month. I'm still about 1% down from where i was on Friday.

Crpyto seems like a scam to me. Very volatile (I guess like Trump!) And i don't fully understand what it is to be frank. That said i did meet someone at a party who made £2m from it before most of us had heard of it. He's cashed in and has retired off of it.

The NASDAQ is up 34%, S&P 23%, if you were in gold that's up 28%, Nikkei 37% - so all depends where you are invested.

The thing with crypto and to an extent gold is that by buying and investing into it you are backing the established way to fail. Which could be handy if you are sitting on a load of dubloons and bitcoin but if things go to shit that badly paying for things will be the least of your worries 

I've dipped into crypto a few years ago, watched it go right down and right up and took most of my stake out. I've left transactional money in there for stuff you can't really buy with cash but I don't see that as an investment. Gold, its a bit less exciting than I thought it would be and I'm glad I've got a bit however if it carries on going up I will sell that albeit in a pain in the arse way 

The other thing is people invested in gold and crypto make a very convincing emotional argument in favour which makes me smell a rat that may or may not be there 

Diebythesword said:

Carter said:

The thing with crypto and to an extent gold is that by buying and investing into it you are backing the established way to fail. Which could be handy if you are sitting on a load of dubloons and bitcoin but if things go to shit that badly paying for things will be the least of your worries 

I've dipped into crypto a few years ago, watched it go right down and right up and took most of my stake out. I've left transactional money in there for stuff you can't really buy with cash but I don't see that as an investment. Gold, its a bit less exciting than I thought it would be and I'm glad I've got a bit however if it carries on going up I will sell that albeit in a pain in the arse way 

The other thing is people invested in gold and crypto make a very convincing emotional argument in favour which makes me smell a rat that may or may not be there 

The thing is if the world ends your investments will be the very least of your worries anyway (it’s why you should always buy a “nuclear war” dip). Bitcoin has shown it is just as sensitive to the market as any other asset.

i agree, people who pitch bitcoin get emotional, but at the end of the day the proof is in its performance which has been exeptional, my worry is in 15-20 years when bull runs get less and less volatile, so the profitability goes down which brings their attractiveness as a risky asset right down. Maybe another digital asset would then takeover and the market “matures” but maybe not. 

There are many publically traded companies that have no intrinsic value that you’re no doubt invested in, meta, uber and Airbnb are ones that spring to mind immediately. They’re still worth something to investors. 

Crypto (for me) remains ‘Emperors new clothes’. 

Does anybody else have a clue what this crypto language is on about? 🥸

cantersaddick said:

The blockchain tech that sits behind it has numerous real work applications and is where the potential to actually impact lives but the currency part of crypto seems to have by accident become the only thing its really used for. 

I remember a discussion with someone while I was at uni in 2013ish around how the tech could be used for voting or a much more direct form of democracy where people vote on individual policy positions. The potential applications are endless. But there is money in Crypto so thats been the focus. 

I did make a bit of cash from Crypto in the early days -nothing like as much as a mate who got in at the same time and hasnt worked in 4 years and spends his time travelling. I dont mess with it now 

That's why I'm invested in an ETF with exposure to Blockchain businesses/businesses that are involved in buying and selling crypto. Coinbase for example is one of the biggest constituents of the ETF I have, as well as Terawulf

Fundamentally it goes against all my basic logic to invest in crypto, but I do understand why Blockchain could be valuable, although for me it's still an answer desperately looking for a real solution!

Well it's started, UK markets down today between 1.5 and 2%, be interesting to see what the American markets do later. I'll try not to catch the falling knife and get back in!

Friend Or Defoe said:

Rob7Lee said:

Well it's started, UK markets down today between 1.5 and 2%, be interesting to see what the American markets do later. I'll try not to catch the falling knife and get back in!

Sakes, what's he done now?

I think it's to do with shitty American regional banks getting themselves into bother again.
The big ones have been reporting healthy results in the last week or two. Not sure this can be pinned directly on the corrupt buffoon or his team of venal incompetents.

I think that's it for me now, if this rebounds/stays steady I am going to do a belated @Rob7Lee and move into money markets etc and buy the inevitable dip. 

The problem is that I was contemplating the same thing a year ago, and if I had done that I would have missed out a lot...

This is the first time I am starting to hear what is close to a consensus in this area, that markets are incredibly frothy

Diebythesword said:

Time in the market beats timing the market. We’re still in a bull market. 

Except on Fridays (Based on the last 6 months).

What current funds are out there if I wish to scale back on some of my profits?

Diebythesword said:

Markets made a decent rebound today. Still technically a roaring bull market.

It certainly is! Until it isn't... 

golfaddick said:

Huskaris said:

I think that's it for me now, if this rebounds/stays steady I am going to do a belated @Rob7Lee and move into money markets etc and buy the inevitable dip. 

The problem is that I was contemplating the same thing a year ago, and if I had done that I would have missed out a lot...

This is the first time I am starting to hear what is close to a consensus in this area, that markets are incredibly frothy

There could well be a dip or correction in weeks or months to come. But if you stay in the market before that you might make enough that the dip just puts you back where you are now.

Yeah this is the difficulty about making this decision. I do feel that price to earnings ratios are absolutely insane, indeed I think I've read that the last time they were this high was the dot-com bubble. 

I have no doubt that in the end AI will be massive and these companies will justify big valuations (much like a lot of companies in the dot-com boom) but I feel like there will need to be a big correction first. There seems to be a real toxic positivity (not from anyone in here, in the markets!) when for me, a lot of the fundamentals data doesn't back it up. Complacency isn't due to ignorance, it has become an actual choice. 

Just to add, I'm not looking to go fully into cash, more looking at rebalancing my portfolio to have 20-25% in a 4.9%-ish overnight money market swap (CSH2 is the one I'm looking at). I do also completely agree that the equities market might grow to a point before the crash that it just puts me back here. My thought is that I would like to have a load of cash to buy back in when the fall comes, I am not in a situation currently where I could do that with anything close to a decent proportion of my existing portfolio from liquid cash I could get my hands on. 

It's really frustrating trying to work out what to do to be honest. Having done some reading, I'm tempted now to just ride it all out 

cantersaddick said:

Google searches for "help with mortgage" now now at a higher daily rate than just pre 2008 crash. Not quite accounting for per head searches and increased searching generally but latest in a string of worrying signs.