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Savings and Investments thread
Comments
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Re PB's........
My comment is more based on what people have been posting these last few days, as well as last month. The returns are falling and it's ok talking about what you've averaged over the year, but that is past history. Look at now, what you've just received & multiply that by 12.
Rates are only going to get worse as interest rates on the whole come down.1 -
Unbelievably won a grand on 50% holding. £25 for 'Er Indoors on similar.19
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golfaddick said:Re PB's........
My comment is more based on what people have been posting these last few days, as well as last month. The returns are falling and it's ok talking about what you've averaged over the year, but that is past history. Look at now, what you've just received & multiply that by 12.
Rates are only going to get worse as interest rates on the whole come down.
Not quite sure I agree with that, Golfie. For example, if I look at now and I've just won £500 on a £50k holding and I multiply that by 12 it means, using your logic, that I have a tax-free return annualised over the next 12 months at 12% - which is nonsense. To calculate the actual return you need to look back over an extended period (say 6-12 months), not forwards.3 -
Yeah, sorry you're right. However, one swallow doth not a summer make and there are lots of others on here who didnt receive anything this month.bobmunro said:golfaddick said:Re PB's........
My comment is more based on what people have been posting these last few days, as well as last month. The returns are falling and it's ok talking about what you've averaged over the year, but that is past history. Look at now, what you've just received & multiply that by 12.
Rates are only going to get worse as interest rates on the whole come down.
Not quite sure I agree with that, Golfie. For example, if I look at now and I've just won £500 on a £50k holding and I multiply that by 12 it means, using your logic, that I have a tax-free return annualised over the next 12 months at 12% - which is nonsense. To calculate the actual return you need to look back over an extended period (say 6-12 months), not forwards.
All I will reiterate is that the prize money is falling as soon it might be time to rethink where you are keeping your maximum £50k holdings.
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golfaddick said:
Yeah, sorry you're right. However, one swallow doth not a summer make and there are lots of others on here who didnt receive anything this month.bobmunro said:golfaddick said:Re PB's........
My comment is more based on what people have been posting these last few days, as well as last month. The returns are falling and it's ok talking about what you've averaged over the year, but that is past history. Look at now, what you've just received & multiply that by 12.
Rates are only going to get worse as interest rates on the whole come down.
Not quite sure I agree with that, Golfie. For example, if I look at now and I've just won £500 on a £50k holding and I multiply that by 12 it means, using your logic, that I have a tax-free return annualised over the next 12 months at 12% - which is nonsense. To calculate the actual return you need to look back over an extended period (say 6-12 months), not forwards.
All I will reiterate is that the prize money is falling as soon it might be time to rethink where you are keeping your maximum £50k holdings.I don't disagree with that and I'm also thinking of having a punt elsewhere.That said, this tax year I'm currently running at 3.1% - that's gross 3.875% (20%), 5.17% (40%) and 5.63% (45%) and tax year 2024/25 was similar.2 -
See Len Glover’s reply above. 1k win on 25k holding. That’s why people buy Premium Bonds, in the hope of getting a decent prize.golfaddick said:Re PB's........
My comment is more based on what people have been posting these last few days, as well as last month. The returns are falling and it's ok talking about what you've averaged over the year, but that is past history. Look at now, what you've just received & multiply that by 12.
Rates are only going to get worse as interest rates on the whole come down.2 -
Indeed... One of the £50k winners this month did so on a £7 holding....LargeAddick said:
See Len Glover’s reply above. 1k win on 25k holding. That’s why people buy Premium Bonds, in the hope of getting a decent prize.golfaddick said:Re PB's........
My comment is more based on what people have been posting these last few days, as well as last month. The returns are falling and it's ok talking about what you've averaged over the year, but that is past history. Look at now, what you've just received & multiply that by 12.
Rates are only going to get worse as interest rates on the whole come down.0 -
I bobmunro said:
Bob I understand where you’re coming from as I said above, as a retired Financial Adviser and as someone that knows regardless of profession.golfaddick said:
Yeah, sorry you're right. However, one swallow doth not a summer make and there are lots of others on here who didnt receive anything this month.bobmunro said:golfaddick said:Re PB's........
My comment is more based on what people have been posting these last few days, as well as last month. The returns are falling and it's ok talking about what you've averaged over the year, but that is past history. Look at now, what you've just received & multiply that by 12.
Rates are only going to get worse as interest rates on the whole come down.
Not quite sure I agree with that, Golfie. For example, if I look at now and I've just won £500 on a £50k holding and I multiply that by 12 it means, using your logic, that I have a tax-free return annualised over the next 12 months at 12% - which is nonsense. To calculate the actual return you need to look back over an extended period (say 6-12 months), not forwards.
All I will reiterate is that the prize money is falling as soon it might be time to rethink where you are keeping your maximum £50k holdings.I don't disagree with that and I'm also thinking of having a punt elsewhere.That said, this tax year I'm currently running at 3.1% - that's gross 3.875% (20%), 5.17% (40%) and 5.63% (45%) and tax year 2024/25 was similar.
It seems to have gone over the head of the expert.0 -
Great. Come back next year & update us with the returns then.bobmunro said:golfaddick said:
Yeah, sorry you're right. However, one swallow doth not a summer make and there are lots of others on here who didnt receive anything this month.bobmunro said:golfaddick said:Re PB's........
My comment is more based on what people have been posting these last few days, as well as last month. The returns are falling and it's ok talking about what you've averaged over the year, but that is past history. Look at now, what you've just received & multiply that by 12.
Rates are only going to get worse as interest rates on the whole come down.
Not quite sure I agree with that, Golfie. For example, if I look at now and I've just won £500 on a £50k holding and I multiply that by 12 it means, using your logic, that I have a tax-free return annualised over the next 12 months at 12% - which is nonsense. To calculate the actual return you need to look back over an extended period (say 6-12 months), not forwards.
All I will reiterate is that the prize money is falling as soon it might be time to rethink where you are keeping your maximum £50k holdings.I don't disagree with that and I'm also thinking of having a punt elsewhere.That said, this tax year I'm currently running at 3.1% - that's gross 3.875% (20%), 5.17% (40%) and 5.63% (45%) and tax year 2024/25 was similar.
Yes, you might win the biggie, or even just a £5k prize. But more often than not you wont, and you'll continue to get £25 here, £50 there and maybe even a £100. But there will be months when you dont receive anything at all.
The Government aren't stupid. And this year they are needing to save more money than ever before. Do you think the prices will be increasing when interest rates are falling.
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And one of the 1 million pound winners had a holding under 12k.Huskaris said:
Indeed... One of the £50k winners this month did so on a £7 holding....LargeAddick said:
See Len Glover’s reply above. 1k win on 25k holding. That’s why people buy Premium Bonds, in the hope of getting a decent prize.golfaddick said:Re PB's........
My comment is more based on what people have been posting these last few days, as well as last month. The returns are falling and it's ok talking about what you've averaged over the year, but that is past history. Look at now, what you've just received & multiply that by 12.
Rates are only going to get worse as interest rates on the whole come down.2 -
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I'm with GolfAddict on this. You're far better off putting your money elsewhere, especially if you've got £50k sitting there.
I get the appeal of gambling without losing, but big wins are rare are you're lossing out by not having it invested.
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Think PB can play their part when it comes to a couple of factors:
1) Time Horizon: If over a certain age, with more than enough money and just fancy the ease of not having to declare tax on winnings or having to keep an eye on market news
2) Liquidity: If the money is needed in very near future (ie - a house purchase)
But if the objective is pure growth - the rate the stock market has accelerated in recent years, there’s next to no debate that premium bonds falls well behind.I’ve had a similar amount in my Stocks and Shares ISA for the last 3 and a half months and gained 11%. Though admittedly the dip for the Trump tariffs meant I had a slightly lower starting position.2 -
Echo this.cafctom said:Think PB can play their part when it comes to a couple of factors:
1) Time Horizon: If over a certain age, with more than enough money and just fancy the ease of not having to declare tax on winnings or having to keep an eye on market news
2) Liquidity: If the money is needed in very near future (ie - a house purchase)
But if the objective is pure growth - the rate the stock market has accelerated in recent years, there’s next to no debate that premium bonds falls well behind.I’ve had a similar amount in my Stocks and Shares ISA for the last 3 and a half months and gained 11%. Though admittedly the dip for the Trump tariffs meant I had a slightly lower starting position.
Don't get me wrong, PB's have a part to play in peoples "savings & investments", but as said above, more as a home for short term needs or older people who can't afford to lose any money.
But many on here are under 70 & a lot are still in employment. I understand that the returns are tax-free, but trust me, there are better places to put £50k that you don't need in the shirt term.
And that will be my last word on this. And if you think I'm a lone voice, see what Martin Lewis has to say about them.1 -
The more people that take reinvest their PB stake the more chance I have of winning the £1m 🤓0
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You are absolutely correct. Don't underestimate the pull of the monthly excitement at midnightgolfaddick said:
Echo this.cafctom said:Think PB can play their part when it comes to a couple of factors:
1) Time Horizon: If over a certain age, with more than enough money and just fancy the ease of not having to declare tax on winnings or having to keep an eye on market news
2) Liquidity: If the money is needed in very near future (ie - a house purchase)
But if the objective is pure growth - the rate the stock market has accelerated in recent years, there’s next to no debate that premium bonds falls well behind.I’ve had a similar amount in my Stocks and Shares ISA for the last 3 and a half months and gained 11%. Though admittedly the dip for the Trump tariffs meant I had a slightly lower starting position.
Don't get me wrong, PB's have a part to play in peoples "savings & investments", but as said above, more as a home for short term needs or older people who can't afford to lose any money.
But many on here are under 70 & a lot are still in employment. I understand that the returns are tax-free, but trust me, there are better places to put £50k that you don't need in the shirt term.
And that will be my last word on this. And if you think I'm a lone voice, see what Martin Lewis has to say about them.
I don't reinvest mine, anything I win goes into my 212 S&S ISA which must bend Rachel Reeves head a bit using the boring safe money to use in the riskier stocks and shares market albeit still tax free
They are accessible as well, next time I decide to buy a car that is where the money will come from as I won't miss a bonus interest rate by withdrawing it
The tax tail wagging the savings dog is valid but for me personally I already hand over enough in tax and have paid income tax on what I'm investing so resent being taxed more for being sensible with money to ensure I don't become a burden.0 -
Maybe, maybe not.Friend Or Defoe said:I'm with GolfAddict on this. You're far better off putting your money elsewhere, especially if you've got £50k sitting there.
I get the appeal of gambling without losing, but big wins are rare are you're lossing out by not having it invested.
its a balance, while I’ve cashed out a bit lately, I was sitting on a large pension pot all invested in the markets, ISA’s a lot as well (some in cash). Between my wife and I we hold the max premium bonds but north of 15x that in the stock market and a fair multiple in gold.
so for me, premium bonds is an easy way to hold some cash in a capital risk free, tax free environment.Where else would you suggest I hold it? I certainly don’t want any more stocks, nor gold, if I hold cash in the bank I’m going to lose almost half in tax.
for me, right now they are worth having, likely change when I retire, but right now I’m fine and happy with what’s been fairly decent returns.5 -
Rob7Lee said:
Maybe, maybe not.Friend Or Defoe said:I'm with GolfAddict on this. You're far better off putting your money elsewhere, especially if you've got £50k sitting there.
I get the appeal of gambling without losing, but big wins are rare are you're lossing out by not having it invested.
its a balance, while I’ve cashed out a bit lately, I was sitting on a large pension pot all invested in the markets, ISA’s a lot as well (some in cash). Between my wife and I we hold the max premium bonds but north of 15x that in the stock market and a fair multiple in gold.
so for me, premium bonds is an easy way to hold some cash in a capital risk free, tax free environment.Where else would you suggest I hold it? I certainly don’t want any more stocks, nor gold, if I hold cash in the bank I’m going to lose almost half in tax.
for me, right now they are worth having, likely change when I retire, but right now I’m fine and happy with what’s been fairly decent returns.100% this. I wouldn't recommend them over ISAs of course (either cash or S&S) but that nasty tax man limits the annual maximum I can put into ISAs. On average over the last couple of years I've had tax-free returns in excess of 3% from PBs - the equivalent gross is in excess of what I can achieve in fixed rate bonds with the added advantage of virtually instant access.Horses for courses, of course, and I'm very lucky in being in a position where security massively outweighs the need for growth, which is obviously not guaranteed, and again fortunate in that my capital used for drawings as required is made up of funds conserved from previous net income, so no income tax to pay on any of those drawings. The only tax I pay is on earnings from investments, which at my stage of life is now primarily cash.3 -
Your position indicates that you already have a lot invested in markets, so having a small chunk in PBs isn’t holding you back too much.Rob7Lee said:
Maybe, maybe not.Friend Or Defoe said:I'm with GolfAddict on this. You're far better off putting your money elsewhere, especially if you've got £50k sitting there.
I get the appeal of gambling without losing, but big wins are rare are you're lossing out by not having it invested.
its a balance, while I’ve cashed out a bit lately, I was sitting on a large pension pot all invested in the markets, ISA’s a lot as well (some in cash). Between my wife and I we hold the max premium bonds but north of 15x that in the stock market and a fair multiple in gold.
so for me, premium bonds is an easy way to hold some cash in a capital risk free, tax free environment.Where else would you suggest I hold it? I certainly don’t want any more stocks, nor gold, if I hold cash in the bank I’m going to lose almost half in tax.
for me, right now they are worth having, likely change when I retire, but right now I’m fine and happy with what’s been fairly decent returns.
I think the original point being made was more in respect to those who have somewhere up to, but not exceeding 50k that they want to put somewhere as their main method of saving.2 -
Exactly that. If you want to put a load of money someone safe away from the tax man than PBs are an excellent idea, but not many people have north of £750k in stocks! You must really enjoy your job!cafctom said:
Your position indicates that you already have a lot invested in markets, so having a small chunk in PBs isn’t holding you back too much.Rob7Lee said:
Maybe, maybe not.Friend Or Defoe said:I'm with GolfAddict on this. You're far better off putting your money elsewhere, especially if you've got £50k sitting there.
I get the appeal of gambling without losing, but big wins are rare are you're lossing out by not having it invested.
its a balance, while I’ve cashed out a bit lately, I was sitting on a large pension pot all invested in the markets, ISA’s a lot as well (some in cash). Between my wife and I we hold the max premium bonds but north of 15x that in the stock market and a fair multiple in gold.
so for me, premium bonds is an easy way to hold some cash in a capital risk free, tax free environment.Where else would you suggest I hold it? I certainly don’t want any more stocks, nor gold, if I hold cash in the bank I’m going to lose almost half in tax.
for me, right now they are worth having, likely change when I retire, but right now I’m fine and happy with what’s been fairly decent returns.
I think the original point being made was more in respect to those who have somewhere up to, but not exceeding 50k that they want to put somewhere as their main method of saving.
If you want to grow your money long-term there are plenty of places which give back more than 3% after tax. Some savings account have 6% fix APR but are restricted to £200 a month. I have 2 of them!1 -
I can really commend First Direct's monthly saver, you have to have an account with them, but if you switch to them they will give you £175. Their customer service is second to none in my opinion.Friend Or Defoe said:
Exactly that. If you want to put a load of money someone safe away from the tax man than PBs are an excellent idea, but not many people have north of £750k in stocks! You must really enjoy your job!cafctom said:
Your position indicates that you already have a lot invested in markets, so having a small chunk in PBs isn’t holding you back too much.Rob7Lee said:
Maybe, maybe not.Friend Or Defoe said:I'm with GolfAddict on this. You're far better off putting your money elsewhere, especially if you've got £50k sitting there.
I get the appeal of gambling without losing, but big wins are rare are you're lossing out by not having it invested.
its a balance, while I’ve cashed out a bit lately, I was sitting on a large pension pot all invested in the markets, ISA’s a lot as well (some in cash). Between my wife and I we hold the max premium bonds but north of 15x that in the stock market and a fair multiple in gold.
so for me, premium bonds is an easy way to hold some cash in a capital risk free, tax free environment.Where else would you suggest I hold it? I certainly don’t want any more stocks, nor gold, if I hold cash in the bank I’m going to lose almost half in tax.
for me, right now they are worth having, likely change when I retire, but right now I’m fine and happy with what’s been fairly decent returns.
I think the original point being made was more in respect to those who have somewhere up to, but not exceeding 50k that they want to put somewhere as their main method of saving.
If you want to grow your money long-term there are plenty of places which give back more than 3% after tax. Some savings account have 6% fix APR but are restricted to £200 a month. I have 2 of them!
Their regular saver is 7%, £300 a month. They really are a great bank (HSBC banking licence)4 -
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Yes, across pensions and ISA's between my wife and I (not including her small final salary one's) we did have north of 750k in stocks, it's. A bit less now as I've cashed out a fair bit. I am lucky to enjoy my Job and get paid well for it. Although every time I seem to start to wind down (I took a job in 2020 to do just that) it just gets cranked back up again. I think I've got max 4 more years in me before heading off into the sun by which time I'll be all but 57. Maybe a year less.Friend Or Defoe said:
Exactly that. If you want to put a load of money someone safe away from the tax man than PBs are an excellent idea, but not many people have north of £750k in stocks! You must really enjoy your job!cafctom said:
Your position indicates that you already have a lot invested in markets, so having a small chunk in PBs isn’t holding you back too much.Rob7Lee said:
Maybe, maybe not.Friend Or Defoe said:I'm with GolfAddict on this. You're far better off putting your money elsewhere, especially if you've got £50k sitting there.
I get the appeal of gambling without losing, but big wins are rare are you're lossing out by not having it invested.
its a balance, while I’ve cashed out a bit lately, I was sitting on a large pension pot all invested in the markets, ISA’s a lot as well (some in cash). Between my wife and I we hold the max premium bonds but north of 15x that in the stock market and a fair multiple in gold.
so for me, premium bonds is an easy way to hold some cash in a capital risk free, tax free environment.Where else would you suggest I hold it? I certainly don’t want any more stocks, nor gold, if I hold cash in the bank I’m going to lose almost half in tax.
for me, right now they are worth having, likely change when I retire, but right now I’m fine and happy with what’s been fairly decent returns.
I think the original point being made was more in respect to those who have somewhere up to, but not exceeding 50k that they want to put somewhere as their main method of saving.
If you want to grow your money long-term there are plenty of places which give back more than 3% after tax. Some savings account have 6% fix APR but are restricted to £200 a month. I have 2 of them!
The 6% £200 a month type accounts aren't really worth the agro for me, it such small sums of interest in the year (which I'd pay 45% tax on anyway). I could take the first direct one as still have some dormant accounts with them, however £300 a month grosses £136.50 for the year, so I'd end up with about £70 after tax!
Whilst I don't mind paying my tax, I'm more and more annoyed at not what's collected but how it's spent, so I'll be taking/keeping every possible tax efficient product I can! Including premium bonds and exploring where we'll live in retirement.2 -
Completely agree. Obviously depends on personal circumstances. But if, like me, you are retired and have limited options to add to personal penions (there is one I have not in drawdown) and 2 final salary paying out plus maxed out on ISAs (for the last 10 years) then no other (easy) tax fee options available do PB's are it!Rob7Lee said:
Maybe, maybe not.Friend Or Defoe said:I'm with GolfAddict on this. You're far better off putting your money elsewhere, especially if you've got £50k sitting there.
I get the appeal of gambling without losing, but big wins are rare are you're lossing out by not having it invested.
its a balance, while I’ve cashed out a bit lately, I was sitting on a large pension pot all invested in the markets, ISA’s a lot as well (some in cash). Between my wife and I we hold the max premium bonds but north of 15x that in the stock market and a fair multiple in gold.
so for me, premium bonds is an easy way to hold some cash in a capital risk free, tax free environment.Where else would you suggest I hold it? I certainly don’t want any more stocks, nor gold, if I hold cash in the bank I’m going to lose almost half in tax.
for me, right now they are worth having, likely change when I retire, but right now I’m fine and happy with what’s been fairly decent returns.0 -
There's also the option of spending which I absolutely intend to do, come retirement I'm not intending to save a penny!CafcWest said:
Completely agree. Obviously depends on personal circumstances. But if, like me, you are retired and have limited options to add to personal penions (there is one I have not in drawdown) and 2 final salary paying out plus maxed out on ISAs (for the last 10 years) then no other (easy) tax fee options available do PB's are it!Rob7Lee said:
Maybe, maybe not.Friend Or Defoe said:I'm with GolfAddict on this. You're far better off putting your money elsewhere, especially if you've got £50k sitting there.
I get the appeal of gambling without losing, but big wins are rare are you're lossing out by not having it invested.
its a balance, while I’ve cashed out a bit lately, I was sitting on a large pension pot all invested in the markets, ISA’s a lot as well (some in cash). Between my wife and I we hold the max premium bonds but north of 15x that in the stock market and a fair multiple in gold.
so for me, premium bonds is an easy way to hold some cash in a capital risk free, tax free environment.Where else would you suggest I hold it? I certainly don’t want any more stocks, nor gold, if I hold cash in the bank I’m going to lose almost half in tax.
for me, right now they are worth having, likely change when I retire, but right now I’m fine and happy with what’s been fairly decent returns.3 -
They're probably are other options, it's just that you don't know about then.CafcWest said:
Completely agree. Obviously depends on personal circumstances. But if, like me, you are retired and have limited options to add to personal penions (there is one I have not in drawdown) and 2 final salary paying out plus maxed out on ISAs (for the last 10 years) then no other (easy) tax fee options available do PB's are it!Rob7Lee said:
Maybe, maybe not.Friend Or Defoe said:I'm with GolfAddict on this. You're far better off putting your money elsewhere, especially if you've got £50k sitting there.
I get the appeal of gambling without losing, but big wins are rare are you're lossing out by not having it invested.
its a balance, while I’ve cashed out a bit lately, I was sitting on a large pension pot all invested in the markets, ISA’s a lot as well (some in cash). Between my wife and I we hold the max premium bonds but north of 15x that in the stock market and a fair multiple in gold.
so for me, premium bonds is an easy way to hold some cash in a capital risk free, tax free environment.Where else would you suggest I hold it? I certainly don’t want any more stocks, nor gold, if I hold cash in the bank I’m going to lose almost half in tax.
for me, right now they are worth having, likely change when I retire, but right now I’m fine and happy with what’s been fairly decent returns.0 -
Just checked i've had £1,525 in the last 12 months from max PBs, which is 3% so just topping post-tax interest from a standard savings acct0
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Oddly - I've also had £1,525 - but in the last 8 months (since January)!paulsturgess said:Just checked i've had £1,525 in the last 12 months from max PBs, which is 3% so just topping post-tax interest from a standard savings acct0 -
£1025 last 7 months, didn’t have maximum through all that time. But annualised on the full is about 3.5% or over 6% gross equivalent.0
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very good. Hopefully I'm due some better results!CafcWest said:
Oddly - I've also had £1,525 - but in the last 8 months (since January)!paulsturgess said:Just checked i've had £1,525 in the last 12 months from max PBs, which is 3% so just topping post-tax interest from a standard savings acct0 -
I was listening to the statistics about how much cash money in the UK is stuffed in PB. The rationale too, which is shaking as the prizes have been gubbed but its interesting and makes me wonder how financially literate so many people are.
If I was in the enviable position of having a maximum holding as opposed to what I do I'd be a bit more inclined to lob it into ISAs each year to guarantee a return. What can't be understated is the safety coupled with excitement on PB. I also didn’t properly realise how many people I know hold substantial amounts in PB with no idea about ISA allowances (not talking about people on here, Golfie and Rob Lee are senseis) and I thought I was bad.1 -
PB’s are a good option if you want fairly quick access to cash if you need it. Eg, want a new kitchen? Cash in some bonds. I agree they are not for everyone but some people may already be maxed out on ISA allowances etc whilst as said some want instant access but the chance of winning a decent prize in the meantime.Carter said:I was listening to the statistics about how much cash money in the UK is stuffed in PB. The rationale too, which is shaking as the prizes have been gubbed but its interesting and makes me wonder how financially literate so many people are.
If I was in the enviable position of having a maximum holding as opposed to what I do I'd be a bit more inclined to lob it into ISAs each year to guarantee a return. What can't be understated is the safety coupled with excitement on PB. I also didn’t properly realise how many people I know hold substantial amounts in PB with no idea about ISA allowances (not talking about people on here, Golfie and Rob Lee are senseis) and I thought I was bad.2
