Matchday policing issues thread (Millwall 2025 onwards)

DOUCHER said:

its very simple - hold them in for half hour after the game then escort them to the station - thats it - nothing else needs to be done - the trust need to get all over this and make sure this nonsense doesn't happen again next year 

Only just catching up with this thread so someone’s probably already made the point, but surely you can understand why they’d be reluctant to do this?

superclive98 said:

sam3110 said:

superclive98 said:

fenaddick said:

superclive98 said:

CAFCTrev said:

CharltontillidieCOYR said:

Wow
wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻‍♂️

As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns. 

Is this just health and safety gone mad?
Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?

Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregate 

Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire.
You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.

Jesus Christ, bring back the fencing in front of the away fans and packing them into the stands no matter the capacity then eh?

So you think that an unlocked gate between home and away fans is sufficient then?

Moot point, it has to be unlocked. 

valleynick66 said:

Airman Brown said:

Airman Brown said:

valleynick66 said:

JohnnyH2 said:

valleynick66 said:

I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable. 

There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting. 

I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call. 

We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.

What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it. 

The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge. 

I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better. 

And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.

And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our ground

As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it. 

The corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time. 

But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!

A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return. 

Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.

And no, it wasn’t me.

I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.

Good to hear. 

Interesting that  GC reads this site / is made aware I guess. 

Strange also then no comms on the wider subject. 

I've always thought that if i ran a football club or was in a management position, then reading the fan forums would be a no brainer and exactly the thing to do to keep on top of opinions, thoughts etc.

Yes they can go to live fan forums or do the occasional zoom meetings with fans and i'm sure they get tons of emails, but setting aside maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read a site like this is surely the easiest and convenient way to stay on top of what the fans think on anything, and then you can act accordingly.

Weegie Addick said:

JohnnyH2 said:

Kap10 said:

valleynick66 said:

Airman Brown said:

Airman Brown said:

valleynick66 said:

JohnnyH2 said:

valleynick66 said:

I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable. 

There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting. 

I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call. 

We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.

What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it. 

The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge. 

I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better. 

And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.

And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our ground

As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it. 

The corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time. 

But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!

A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return. 

Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.

And no, it wasn’t me.

I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.

Good to hear. 

Interesting that  GC reads this site / is made aware I guess. 

Strange also then no comms on the wider subject. 

Maybe the Club are gathering all the facts and investigating if, in their opinion, anything went wrong and if so what was it, where did the responsibility lie and steps for the future, before responding. IF that is the case then they should at least let fans know and give a time frame for a full response.

As an aside, I would like to see the fans represented when deciding on the security arrangements for games, maybe not in a decision making capacity but certainly in an advisory / consultative capacity.

We used to have a fans rep on the Safety Committee, anyone know if this still occurs?

A CAST board member attends and inputs to the Safety Advisory Group. This is not a club committee. 

Out of interest @Weegie_Addick when was the last Safety Advisory Group meeting?

superclive98 said:

sam3110 said:

superclive98 said:

sam3110 said:

superclive98 said:

fenaddick said:

superclive98 said:

CAFCTrev said:

CharltontillidieCOYR said:

Wow
wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻‍♂️

As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns. 

Is this just health and safety gone mad?
Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?

Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregate 

Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire.
You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.

Jesus Christ, bring back the fencing in front of the away fans and packing them into the stands no matter the capacity then eh?

So you think that an unlocked gate between home and away fans is sufficient then?

Moot point, it has to be unlocked. 

So, there has to be two separate access points to each stand?
I think that I've attended enough grounds up and down the country to know that that doesn't happen.

There has to be a secondary escape route. In some cases that will be on to the pitch.

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

valleynick66 said:

Airman Brown said:

Airman Brown said:

valleynick66 said:

JohnnyH2 said:

valleynick66 said:

I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable. 

There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting. 

I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call. 

We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.

What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it. 

The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge. 

I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better. 

And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.

And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our ground

As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it. 

The corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time. 

But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!

A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return. 

Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.

And no, it wasn’t me.

I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.

Good to hear. 

Interesting that  GC reads this site / is made aware I guess. 

Strange also then no comms on the wider subject. 

I've always thought that if i ran a football club or was in a management position, then reading the fan forums would be a no brainer and exactly the thing to do to keep on top of opinions, thoughts etc.

Yes they can go to live fan forums or do the occasional zoom meetings with fans and i'm sure they get tons of emails, but setting aside maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read a site like this is surely the easiest and convenient way to stay on top of what the fans think on anything, and then you can act accordingly.

Our Chairman and CEO clearly read the main Lincoln forum as they post every so often - normally to correct fans who have posted a load of old guff and trotted it out as fact (wouldn't happen on here I know...). The wider comms team have also started posting ticket details etc on the forum.

fenaddick said:

Boom said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

valleynick66 said:

Airman Brown said:

Airman Brown said:

valleynick66 said:

JohnnyH2 said:

valleynick66 said:

I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable. 

There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting. 

I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call. 

We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.

What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it. 

The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge. 

I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better. 

And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.

And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our ground

As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it. 

The corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time. 

But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!

A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return. 

Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.

And no, it wasn’t me.

I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.

Good to hear. 

Interesting that  GC reads this site / is made aware I guess. 

Strange also then no comms on the wider subject. 

I've always thought that if i ran a football club or was in a management position, then reading the fan forums would be a no brainer and exactly the thing to do to keep on top of opinions, thoughts etc.

Yes they can go to live fan forums or do the occasional zoom meetings with fans and i'm sure they get tons of emails, but setting aside maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read a site like this is surely the easiest and convenient way to stay on top of what the fans think on anything, and then you can act accordingly.

Our Chairman and CEO clearly read the main Lincoln forum as they post every so often - normally to correct fans who have posted a load of old guff and trotted it out as fact (wouldn't happen on here I know...). The wider comms team have also started posting ticket details etc on the forum.

How does that go down? Does it just create another avenue for people to voice their displeasure or are people generally happy that the club have taken an extra step to communicate? 

Goes down v well. Posters appreciate them taking the time to engage. Don't normally get anyone having a pop (there's always a couple of helmets of course)

Uboat said:

Just had this back from the club, following my email at the weekend: 

The very predictable "lessons have been learned" line being rolled out. 

fenaddick said:

superclive98 said:

Uboat said:

Just had this back from the club, following my email at the weekend: 

The very predictable "lessons have been learned" line being rolled out. 

I get the cynicism but what else do you actually expect them to say? They have to acknowledge mistakes somehow 

The problem is that this has happened before, so the lessons have obviously been forgotten.

fenaddick said:

PragueAddick said:

fenaddick said:

superclive98 said:

Uboat said:

Just had this back from the club, following my email at the weekend: 

The very predictable "lessons have been learned" line being rolled out. 

I get the cynicism but what else do you actually expect them to say? They have to acknowledge mistakes somehow 

The problem is that this has happened before, so the lessons have obviously been forgotten.

Which is why I understand the cynicism but my questions stands, what else do you actually expect them to say? 

I'd expect them to say that they are going to talk to the police about not keeping Millwall fan's behind after the game and try to convince them that they should. 

Boom said:

fenaddick said:

Boom said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

valleynick66 said:

Airman Brown said:

Airman Brown said:

valleynick66 said:

JohnnyH2 said:

valleynick66 said:

I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable. 

There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting. 

I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call. 

We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.

What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it. 

The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge. 

I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better. 

And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.

And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our ground

As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it. 

The corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time. 

But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!

A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return. 

Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.

And no, it wasn’t me.

I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.

Good to hear. 

Interesting that  GC reads this site / is made aware I guess. 

Strange also then no comms on the wider subject. 

I've always thought that if i ran a football club or was in a management position, then reading the fan forums would be a no brainer and exactly the thing to do to keep on top of opinions, thoughts etc.

Yes they can go to live fan forums or do the occasional zoom meetings with fans and i'm sure they get tons of emails, but setting aside maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read a site like this is surely the easiest and convenient way to stay on top of what the fans think on anything, and then you can act accordingly.

Our Chairman and CEO clearly read the main Lincoln forum as they post every so often - normally to correct fans who have posted a load of old guff and trotted it out as fact (wouldn't happen on here I know...). The wider comms team have also started posting ticket details etc on the forum.

How does that go down? Does it just create another avenue for people to voice their displeasure or are people generally happy that the club have taken an extra step to communicate? 

Goes down v well. Posters appreciate them taking the time to engage. Don't normally get anyone having a pop (there's always a couple of helmets of course)

Bearing in mind though, that the people posting on your website represent those within the fanbase who, a) know what the internet is, b) have internet access, c) can read/write, and d) aren't currently eating a turnip.

So overall I'd guess that's about 5% of the total.
;-)