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Matchday policing issues thread (Millwall 2025 onwards)

swords_alive
swords_alive
edited September 13 in General Charlton
Thought it might be a good idea to dedicate a thread as otherwise important issues risk being lost in among other threads. Obviously if admin disagree they will delete.

What i witnessed today was over-policing on a grand scale. however the dust is yet to settle and stories of what went poorly and what went well is probably still to emerge.

The Casey review of Met Police culture found serious insttutional cultural problems, but i suspect one that was missed is that they are still stuck in the dark ages when it comes to policing football fans, and we bear the brunt each time we play Millwall in particular.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65110300

https://www.met.police.uk/police-forces/metropolitan-police/areas/about-us/about-the-met/bcr/baroness-casey-review/

I'll post a few pics later of what i saw and could barely believe, unless there's a move to close such a thread meanwhile.
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Comments

  • Chunes
    Chunes
    edited September 13
    There seemed to be about 100 police stood doing nothing outside the Rose of Denmark, so don't know why they didn't put a few of them up by the Jimmy Seed. 
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick
    Speaking from afar, I'll have a wild guess and say there were no incidents of note before the game.
    Also, if the spanners were kept in after the game and let us out on our peaceful way then a lot of this s*** that went on would not have happened?
  • 2121
    2121
    There were so many policy vans outside the ground, never seen it policed like that ever at charlton, even various millwall games 
  • swords_alive
    swords_alive
    I was struck by how many police there were, firstly at the station, then on Floyd Road.

    A lot of vans parked up in Charlton Church Lane, and several more elsewhere. Seems they want to treat millwall as the millwall of old, and this just adds to the tension.



    I had presumed along with many others that they would be stretched today in particular so it felt very much like overkill. So what is the justification? Is it to appear stretched in order to preserve budgets?

    Before the game there was a line down the middle of Floyd Road. I am used to seeing it after games. So why before today?



    Then there a squadron of reinforcements marching up Floyd Road to join their colleagues in the victory of the station. Did anyone see a "risk group' arrive at the station in the half hour before kick off? 



  • swords_alive
    swords_alive
    Chunes said:
    There seemed to be about 100 police stood doing nothing outside the Rose of Denmark, so don't know why they didn't put a few of them up by the Jimmy Seed. 
    I saw a group of Charlton fans outside the pub and they seemed to draw a reaction from hordes of police who flocked to the area and apparently sealed the pub off. Millwall had poured out of Troughton Road and got there first I think but I couldn't tell if the pub was open and didn't ask anyone at the time what they knew. (Must remember it pays to speak to people and not just take pictures).

    It seemed no-one could get in once the police had surrounded it and it wasn't clear if anything had happened there. About 6 police vans attended as well as 2 horses and police on foot, and then the vans sped off. Again not sure the police actually engaged with any trouble at this location.


  • killerandflash
    killerandflash
    shirty5 said:
    killerandflash said:
    1) An exec box, full of Millwall supporters.  When they equalised,  it got very heated around me at the back of the Curbs stand. And the one steward who arrived obviously couldn't do anything by herself,  BUT no backup or police arrived either.

    This box

    2) a group of Millwall fans broke through the emergency gate between the Jimmy Seed and Curbs, with fights breaking out on the stairs up to Lansdowne Mews with Charltonsupporters. Again hardly a steward, and no police.

    A baffling lack of police in many areas of the ground. They all seemed to be standing in front of the control box, rather than doing anything useful.


    That’s on the football club. A lack of due diligence with the exce box who they were selling the box to
    And nobody then managing the situation.  
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  • Croydon
    Croydon
    Old bill at the ROD admitted to us to they got it badly wrong today. Don't think things were helped by the Greenwich line being out of action either.
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick
    Was there many plod in the ground?
    Surely it should be a given there would be some in each stand.
  • shirty5
    shirty5
    killerandflash said:
    shirty5 said:
    killerandflash said:
    1) An exec box, full of Millwall supporters.  When they equalised,  it got very heated around me at the back of the Curbs stand. And the one steward who arrived obviously couldn't do anything by herself,  BUT no backup or police arrived either.

    This box

    2) a group of Millwall fans broke through the emergency gate between the Jimmy Seed and Curbs, with fights breaking out on the stairs up to Lansdowne Mews with Charltonsupporters. Again hardly a steward, and no police.

    A baffling lack of police in many areas of the ground. They all seemed to be standing in front of the control box, rather than doing anything useful.


    That’s on the football club. A lack of due diligence with the exce box who they were selling the box to
    And nobody then managing the situation.  
    Again on the football club 
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick
    shirty5 said:
    killerandflash said:
    shirty5 said:
    killerandflash said:
    1) An exec box, full of Millwall supporters.  When they equalised,  it got very heated around me at the back of the Curbs stand. And the one steward who arrived obviously couldn't do anything by herself,  BUT no backup or police arrived either.

    This box

    2) a group of Millwall fans broke through the emergency gate between the Jimmy Seed and Curbs, with fights breaking out on the stairs up to Lansdowne Mews with Charltonsupporters. Again hardly a steward, and no police.

    A baffling lack of police in many areas of the ground. They all seemed to be standing in front of the control box, rather than doing anything useful.


    That’s on the football club. A lack of due diligence with the exce box who they were selling the box to
    And nobody then managing the situation.  
    Again on the football club 
    Am I right in thinking there are no problems having plod in the ground as long as you pay relevant costs?
  • shirty5
    shirty5
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    shirty5 said:
    killerandflash said:
    shirty5 said:
    killerandflash said:
    1) An exec box, full of Millwall supporters.  When they equalised,  it got very heated around me at the back of the Curbs stand. And the one steward who arrived obviously couldn't do anything by herself,  BUT no backup or police arrived either.

    This box

    2) a group of Millwall fans broke through the emergency gate between the Jimmy Seed and Curbs, with fights breaking out on the stairs up to Lansdowne Mews with Charltonsupporters. Again hardly a steward, and no police.

    A baffling lack of police in many areas of the ground. They all seemed to be standing in front of the control box, rather than doing anything useful.


    That’s on the football club. A lack of due diligence with the exce box who they were selling the box to
    And nobody then managing the situation.  
    Again on the football club 
    Am I right in thinking there are no problems having plod in the ground as long as you pay relevant costs?
    You pay extra as soon as they set a foot inside the ground bar the ones you agreed with in the first place

    The club want the money, fuck the consequences 
  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer
    https://youtu.be/-q0mA3hJo08?si=Y4H3NqEUYoIIB554
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick
    shirty5 said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    shirty5 said:
    killerandflash said:
    shirty5 said:
    killerandflash said:
    1) An exec box, full of Millwall supporters.  When they equalised,  it got very heated around me at the back of the Curbs stand. And the one steward who arrived obviously couldn't do anything by herself,  BUT no backup or police arrived either.

    This box

    2) a group of Millwall fans broke through the emergency gate between the Jimmy Seed and Curbs, with fights breaking out on the stairs up to Lansdowne Mews with Charltonsupporters. Again hardly a steward, and no police.

    A baffling lack of police in many areas of the ground. They all seemed to be standing in front of the control box, rather than doing anything useful.


    That’s on the football club. A lack of due diligence with the exce box who they were selling the box to
    And nobody then managing the situation.  
    Again on the football club 
    Am I right in thinking there are no problems having plod in the ground as long as you pay relevant costs?
    You pay extra as soon as they set a foot inside the ground bar the ones you agreed with in the first place

    The club want the money, fuck the consequences 
    As I thought, the club have only got themselves to blame for all the s*** that went on inside then.
    We can disregard all the s*** from the club regarding today.
  • Croydon
    Croydon
    Gisappointed said:
    Any strategy that prioritises the movement of 3k away fans over 17k+ home fans is doomed to fail. It has been tried before and I thought it was consigned to the annals of history
    Dumbest thing about it was letting them all go to the station first but not putting them on trains. They let a load wander off which then caused it to kick off all down woolwich road. Totally braindead operation.
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick
    oohaahmortimer said:
    https://youtu.be/-q0mA3hJo08?si=Y4H3NqEUYoIIB554
    Hmmmmm, something tells me those gates would not have opened if there was nobody the other side.

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  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick
    Croydon said:
    Gisappointed said:
    Any strategy that prioritises the movement of 3k away fans over 17k+ home fans is doomed to fail. It has been tried before and I thought it was consigned to the annals of history
    Dumbest thing about it was letting them all go to the station first but not putting them on trains. They let a load wander off which then caused it to kick off all down woolwich road. Totally braindead operation.
    Incredible, wtf were plod thinking of? 
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted
    Croydon said:
    Gisappointed said:
    Any strategy that prioritises the movement of 3k away fans over 17k+ home fans is doomed to fail. It has been tried before and I thought it was consigned to the annals of history
    Dumbest thing about it was letting them all go to the station first but not putting them on trains. They let a load wander off which then caused it to kick off all down woolwich road. Totally braindead operation.
    Trouble is, did those people who wandered off down the Woolwich Road need to use the train? - Someone suggested that Millwall should have been ferried in on Coaches. Bit like what Portsmouth are having to do tomorrow.

    Problem is that Millwall fans, like Charlton probably come from all over now. So many would no doubt find their own way to the area... Whereas the police have taken the approach of: "They're Millwall fans, so must come from that area" 
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Croydon said:
    Gisappointed said:
    Any strategy that prioritises the movement of 3k away fans over 17k+ home fans is doomed to fail. It has been tried before and I thought it was consigned to the annals of history
    Dumbest thing about it was letting them all go to the station first but not putting them on trains. They let a load wander off which then caused it to kick off all down woolwich road. Totally braindead operation.
    Trouble is, did those people who wandered off down the Woolwich Road need to use the train? - Someone suggested that Millwall should have been ferried in on Coaches. Bit like what Portsmouth are having to do tomorrow.

    Problem is that Millwall fans, like Charlton probably come from all over now. So many would no doubt find their own way to the area... Whereas the police have taken the approach of: "They're Millwall fans, so must come from that area" 
    But a 'bubble' game would mean you need to board the coach and then get your ticket.  That is normally how it works.
  • Croydon
    Croydon
    edited September 13
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Croydon said:
    Gisappointed said:
    Any strategy that prioritises the movement of 3k away fans over 17k+ home fans is doomed to fail. It has been tried before and I thought it was consigned to the annals of history
    Dumbest thing about it was letting them all go to the station first but not putting them on trains. They let a load wander off which then caused it to kick off all down woolwich road. Totally braindead operation.
    Trouble is, did those people who wandered off down the Woolwich Road need to use the train? - Someone suggested that Millwall should have been ferried in on Coaches. Bit like what Portsmouth are having to do tomorrow.

    Problem is that Millwall fans, like Charlton probably come from all over now. So many would no doubt find their own way to the area... Whereas the police have taken the approach of: "They're Millwall fans, so must come from that area" 
    This never seems to matter when we're away at theirs or at palace. I've always been stuck on a train that I didn't want to be on by the plod. 

    It's not a high profile enough game for it to be a bubble fixture like the south coast or south Wales derbies, but it makes no sense to close the station completely for one set of fans if you're not even going to force the other to use it. 
  • Gisappointed
    Gisappointed
    edited September 13
    Croydon said:
    Gisappointed said:
    Any strategy that prioritises the movement of 3k away fans over 17k+ home fans is doomed to fail. It has been tried before and I thought it was consigned to the annals of history
    Dumbest thing about it was letting them all go to the station first but not putting them on trains. They let a load wander off which then caused it to kick off all down woolwich road. Totally braindead operation.
    I went to Griffin Park in 80s/90s to watch Bees vs Northampton. Some garbled message came over the useless tannoy at half time, it seems that Brentford fans had to wait in for Cobblers coaches to depart. 

    As a neutral I left before final whistle and at front of queue I was faced with 3 large and not very well behaved police horses keeping fans in. A narrow exit, 20ft wide, nobody behind knew what was going on, pushing from the back, fallers,  a potential Hillsborough.

    Eventually common sense prevailed and exit was allowed to maintain safety.

    I went down Brentford nick, waited nearly 3 hours for Inspector in charge to appear and gave him pelters. I don't think the experiment was repeated.

    Funnily enough, we met again at Sunday football and he is now a good friend. Not sure if he remembers me from then.
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown
    guinnessaddick said:
    I hope the club tell the OB, we tried it your way, it didn’t work. Next time we’ll keep them in after the game.
    It’s not the club’s decision to make. 

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