Couple of questions from me about keeping fans in the away end for a while after the game.
Have we ever done it before with Millwall, or anyone else, how did that go?
The issues at the JS/Curbs gate ... this is a reminder that the JS is a vast site, east to west and fronts onto the pitch, and not particularly secure as we have now seen. I'm wondering if the size of the site and how secure exit points can be kept was a factor in a lock in not being chosen by police? At Millwall, from memory, there's little place to go and a lock in quite easy to control.
It should be very easy for the Jimmy Seed. The only thing keeping fans in at Millwall is gates/ fencing similar to that which was left unlocked by the East Stand.
its very simple - hold them in for half hour after the game then escort them to the station - thats it - nothing else needs to be done - the trust need to get all over this and make sure this nonsense doesn't happen again next year
Only just catching up with this thread so someone’s probably already made the point, but surely you can understand why they’d be reluctant to do this?
its very simple - hold them in for half hour after the game then escort them to the station - thats it - nothing else needs to be done - the trust need to get all over this and make sure this nonsense doesn't happen again next year
Only just catching up with this thread so someone’s probably already made the point, but surely you can understand why they’d be reluctant to do this?
no i don't - let them out then, just don't hold us in or make us do a stupid long walk - whatever happens to them at every other ground in the country is what should happen - if they break a few seats or pop a few rivets out of some cladding , who gives a fuck? send them the bill - or let them out the same time - who cares - what is up with you or anybody else who thinks holding us in or sending us round the houses is the right thing to do ?
Wow wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻♂️
As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns.
Is this just health and safety gone mad? Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?
Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregate
Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire. You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.
Jesus Christ, bring back the fencing in front of the away fans and packing them into the stands no matter the capacity then eh?
So you think that an unlocked gate between home and away fans is sufficient then?
Wow wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻♂️
As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns.
Is this just health and safety gone mad? Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?
Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregate
Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire. You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.
Jesus Christ, bring back the fencing in front of the away fans and packing them into the stands no matter the capacity then eh?
So you think that an unlocked gate between home and away fans is sufficient then?
Moot point, it has to be unlocked.
So, there has to be two separate access points to each stand? I think that I've attended enough grounds up and down the country to know that that doesn't happen.
Amusingly, when I got home from a very pleasant evening out having a curry with my aunt who's over from the US, I found a leaflet for the new Met "engagement" website on the stairs to my flat, and it has a Contact Us page if you fancy expressing your concerns about Greenwich police's handling of the match:
One thing not mentioned in the CAST letter is around stewarding numbers. As mentioned on the other thread, there doesn't seem to be a single difference in the AC Stand between barely attended midweek L1 games and a near full Champ risk game like Saturday where there is a high likelihood of away fans acquiring side stand tickets. No SIA response staff and just the standard number of block entrance ‘greeters’ within the seat section.
I just looked at one of the pics my son took at half time which shows half the concourse and it made me realise there is never ever even a single steward on the concourse at half time. You can see from the below how busy it is, and that’s the same for pretty much every game. If an incident happened there at half time, or even someone was taken ill it would need someone to go back in the stand and alert a steward, not easy in that level of busyness. I suspect the West Lower concourse would be the same.
Might be worth emailing the picture to the Safety officer at the club, i can't remember who it is , or there email address.
But it should be on the clubs website, i know its hassle, but looks like an accident waiting to happen, by the looks of it.
Sure. Fans standing around having a chat with each other, is an 'Accident waiting to happen''? What do you suggest - You think if someone needs assistance, fellow fans won't help?
I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable.
There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting.
I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call.
We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.
What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it.
The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge.
I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better.
And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.
And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our ground
As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it.
The corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time.
But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!
A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return.
Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.
And no, it wasn’t me.
I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.
Good to hear.
Interesting that GC reads this site / is made aware I guess.
Strange also then no comms on the wider subject.
I've always thought that if i ran a football club or was in a management position, then reading the fan forums would be a no brainer and exactly the thing to do to keep on top of opinions, thoughts etc.
Yes they can go to live fan forums or do the occasional zoom meetings with fans and i'm sure they get tons of emails, but setting aside maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read a site like this is surely the easiest and convenient way to stay on top of what the fans think on anything, and then you can act accordingly.
I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable.
There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting.
I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call.
We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.
What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it.
The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge.
I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better.
And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.
And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our ground
As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it.
The corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time.
But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!
A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return.
Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.
And no, it wasn’t me.
I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.
Good to hear.
Interesting that GC reads this site / is made aware I guess.
Strange also then no comms on the wider subject.
Maybe the Club are gathering all the facts and investigating if, in their opinion, anything went wrong and if so what was it, where did the responsibility lie and steps for the future, before responding. IF that is the case then they should at least let fans know and give a time frame for a full response.
As an aside, I would like to see the fans represented when deciding on the security arrangements for games, maybe not in a decision making capacity but certainly in an advisory / consultative capacity.
We used to have a fans rep on the Safety Committee, anyone know if this still occurs?
A CAST board member attends and inputs to the Safety Advisory Group. This is not a club committee.
Out of interest @Weegie_Addick when was the last Safety Advisory Group meeting?
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I think that I've attended enough grounds up and down the country to know that that doesn't happen.
Yes they can go to live fan forums or do the occasional zoom meetings with fans and i'm sure they get tons of emails, but setting aside maybe 30-45 minutes a day to read a site like this is surely the easiest and convenient way to stay on top of what the fans think on anything, and then you can act accordingly.