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Matchday policing issues thread (Millwall 2025 onwards)
Comments
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That mindset is why people couldn't escape the ground at Hillsborough.superclive98 said:
Is this just health and safety gone mad?CAFCTrev said:
As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns.CharltontillidieCOYR said:Wow
wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻♂️
Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?
Yes, he was in the East and threw an awful punch at the guy in the Millwall shirt.Curb_It said:Do we know if one of “our end” wasn’t the boy with the Spurs tattoo who was showing the away end it from the East?0 -
Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire.fenaddick said:
Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregatesuperclive98 said:
Is this just health and safety gone mad?CAFCTrev said:
As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns.CharltontillidieCOYR said:Wow
wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻♂️
Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?
You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.0 -
Money or saving lives/keeping people safe, wonder which is more important?superclive98 said:
Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire.fenaddick said:
Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregatesuperclive98 said:
Is this just health and safety gone mad?CAFCTrev said:
As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns.CharltontillidieCOYR said:Wow
wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻♂️
Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?
You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.1 -
We know the answer to that question but some at the club might not.fenaddick said:
Money or saving lives/keeping people safe, wonder which is more important?superclive98 said:
Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire.fenaddick said:
Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregatesuperclive98 said:
Is this just health and safety gone mad?CAFCTrev said:
As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns.CharltontillidieCOYR said:Wow
wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻♂️
Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?
You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.1 -
Jesus Christ, bring back the fencing in front of the away fans and packing them into the stands no matter the capacity then eh?superclive98 said:
Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire.fenaddick said:
Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregatesuperclive98 said:
Is this just health and safety gone mad?CAFCTrev said:
As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns.CharltontillidieCOYR said:Wow
wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻♂️
Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?
You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.1 -
Its not just about a fire or something extreme though is it, if there's a medical emergency with someone in the crowd you don't want a steward fiddling with a set of keys at a padlocked gate when you need to evacuate them to an ambulance.superclive98 said:
Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire.fenaddick said:
Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregatesuperclive98 said:
Is this just health and safety gone mad?CAFCTrev said:
As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns.CharltontillidieCOYR said:Wow
wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻♂️
Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?
You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.2 -
If only there was a line of police by the gates.CAFCTrev said:
Its not just about a fire or something extreme though is it, if there's a medical emergency with someone in the crowd you don't want a steward fiddling with a set of keys at a padlocked gate when you need to evacuate them to an ambulance.superclive98 said:
Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire.fenaddick said:
Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregatesuperclive98 said:
Is this just health and safety gone mad?CAFCTrev said:
As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns.CharltontillidieCOYR said:Wow
wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻♂️
Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?
You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.4 -
P'raps..Gribbo said:
Curbs 16/1Airman Brown said:
A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return.valleynick66 said:
As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it.JohnnyH2 said:
And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.valleynick66 said:I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable.There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting.I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call.We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.
What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it.The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge.I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better.
And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our groundThe corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time.But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.
And no, it wasn’t me.2 -
@masicat are you saying he was one of those giving it the big one behind the gates, as most on here have said he was an innocent who was trying to keep the peacemasicat said:
MrOneLung said:Did any of the Charlton fans who were mouthing off behind the locked gates, (and bizarrely aiming kicks at the Millwall scum) get a slap when the gates came open ?2 -
Very good. Assertive but staying within the remit of a Supporters' Trust. The Club needs to answer those points in detail, and if it in turn believes that it was unable to do things it wanted to do because the police overruled them, it needs to clearly state thatcastrust said:CAST has written to the club and will be writing to the police today. Thanks to all who shared information with us directly plus on here.
https://www.castrust.org/2025/09/management-of-last-saturdays-match/
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MrOneLung said:
@masicat are you saying he was one of those giving it the big one behind the gates, as most on here have said he was an innocent who was trying to keep the peacemasicat said:MrOneLung said:Did any of the Charlton fans who were mouthing off behind the locked gates, (and bizarrely aiming kicks at the Millwall scum) get a slap when the gates came open ?
No wasn’t saying anything. My grandson sent me the pictures.0 -
Whoever chose to have no proper protection for that gate needs to be held to account for that decision. Both the stewarding and policing were completely inadequate, as was the lack of back up, I was astonished the police didn't rush to that gate once it started kicking off.PragueAddick said:
Very good. Assertive but staying within the remit of a Supporters' Trust. The Club needs to answer those points in detail, and if it in turn believes that it was unable to do things it wanted to do because the police overruled them, it needs to clearly state thatcastrust said:CAST has written to the club and will be writing to the police today. Thanks to all who shared information with us directly plus on here.
https://www.castrust.org/2025/09/management-of-last-saturdays-match/10 -
I went up that way, once the pond life had swum back. There was not a single policeman to be seen, in that area, anywhere in Lansdowne Mews, anywhere up to the Village bus stop.killerandflash said:
Whoever chose to have no proper protection for that gate needs to be held to account for that decision. Both the stewarding and policing were completely inadequate, as was the lack of back up, I was astonished the police didn't rush to that gate once it started kicking off.PragueAddick said:
Very good. Assertive but staying within the remit of a Supporters' Trust. The Club needs to answer those points in detail, and if it in turn believes that it was unable to do things it wanted to do because the police overruled them, it needs to clearly state thatcastrust said:CAST has written to the club and will be writing to the police today. Thanks to all who shared information with us directly plus on here.
https://www.castrust.org/2025/09/management-of-last-saturdays-match/3 -
One thing not mentioned in the CAST letter is around stewarding numbers. As mentioned on the other thread, there doesn't seem to be a single difference in the AC Stand between barely attended midweek L1 games and a near full Champ risk game like Saturday where there is a high likelihood of away fans acquiring side stand tickets. No SIA response staff and just the standard number of block entrance ‘greeters’ within the seat section.I just looked at one of the pics my son took at half time which shows half the concourse and it made me realise there is never ever even a single steward on the concourse at half time. You can see from the below how busy it is, and that’s the same for pretty much every game. If an incident happened there at half time, or even someone was taken ill it would need someone to go back in the stand and alert a steward, not easy in that level of busyness. I suspect the West Lower concourse would be the same.
4 -
So you think that an unlocked gate between home and away fans is sufficient then?sam3110 said:
Jesus Christ, bring back the fencing in front of the away fans and packing them into the stands no matter the capacity then eh?superclive98 said:
Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire.fenaddick said:
Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregatesuperclive98 said:
Is this just health and safety gone mad?CAFCTrev said:
As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns.CharltontillidieCOYR said:Wow
wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻♂️
Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?
You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.0 -
There is another, easily accessible access route to and from that stand.CAFCTrev said:
Its not just about a fire or something extreme though is it, if there's a medical emergency with someone in the crowd you don't want a steward fiddling with a set of keys at a padlocked gate when you need to evacuate them to an ambulance.superclive98 said:
Not much chance of the Jimmy Seed Stand catching fire.fenaddick said:
Or being trapped in a burning stand because the gate can't be open and there's only one exit on the other side. The segregation issue is easy, you don't need to lock the gate you just need to actually segregatesuperclive98 said:
Is this just health and safety gone mad?CAFCTrev said:
As per previous comments, a lot of the gates around the Valley cant be fully locked due to safety/evacuation concerns.CharltontillidieCOYR said:Wow
wtf was the stewards thinking not locking the gate and why wasnt it manned by more aswell as police🤦🏻♂️
Surely the biggest risk to health and safety is a potentially dangerous and supposedly segregated football crowd not actually being segregated?
You do realise that what you are suggesting would cost money.0 -
I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.Airman Brown said:
A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return.valleynick66 said:
As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it.JohnnyH2 said:
And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.valleynick66 said:I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable.There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting.I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call.We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.
What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it.The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge.I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better.
And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our groundThe corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time.But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.
And no, it wasn’t me.26 -
Good to hear.Airman Brown said:
I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.Airman Brown said:
A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return.valleynick66 said:
As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it.JohnnyH2 said:
And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.valleynick66 said:I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable.There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting.I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call.We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.
What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it.The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge.I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better.
And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our groundThe corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time.But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.
And no, it wasn’t me.Interesting that GC reads this site / is made aware I guess.Strange also then no comms on the wider subject.9 -
Maybe the Club are gathering all the facts and investigating if, in their opinion, anything went wrong and if so what was it, where did the responsibility lie and steps for the future, before responding. IF that is the case then they should at least let fans know and give a time frame for a full response.valleynick66 said:
Good to hear.Airman Brown said:
I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.Airman Brown said:
A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return.valleynick66 said:
As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it.JohnnyH2 said:
And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.valleynick66 said:I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable.There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting.I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call.We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.
What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it.The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge.I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better.
And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our groundThe corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time.But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.
And no, it wasn’t me.Interesting that GC reads this site / is made aware I guess.Strange also then no comms on the wider subject.
As an aside, I would like to see the fans represented when deciding on the security arrangements for games, maybe not in a decision making capacity but certainly in an advisory / consultative capacity.6 -
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We used to have a fans rep on the Safety Committee, anyone know if this still occurs?Kap10 said:
Maybe the Club are gathering all the facts and investigating if, in their opinion, anything went wrong and if so what was it, where did the responsibility lie and steps for the future, before responding. IF that is the case then they should at least let fans know and give a time frame for a full response.valleynick66 said:
Good to hear.Airman Brown said:
I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.Airman Brown said:
A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return.valleynick66 said:
As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it.JohnnyH2 said:
And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.valleynick66 said:I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable.There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting.I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call.We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.
What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it.The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge.I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better.
And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our groundThe corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time.But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.
And no, it wasn’t me.Interesting that GC reads this site / is made aware I guess.Strange also then no comms on the wider subject.
As an aside, I would like to see the fans represented when deciding on the security arrangements for games, maybe not in a decision making capacity but certainly in an advisory / consultative capacity.0 -
Might be worth emailing the picture to the Safety officer at the club, i can't remember who it is , or there email address.AFKABartram said:One thing not mentioned in the CAST letter is around stewarding numbers. As mentioned on the other thread, there doesn't seem to be a single difference in the AC Stand between barely attended midweek L1 games and a near full Champ risk game like Saturday where there is a high likelihood of away fans acquiring side stand tickets. No SIA response staff and just the standard number of block entrance ‘greeters’ within the seat section.I just looked at one of the pics my son took at half time which shows half the concourse and it made me realise there is never ever even a single steward on the concourse at half time. You can see from the below how busy it is, and that’s the same for pretty much every game. If an incident happened there at half time, or even someone was taken ill it would need someone to go back in the stand and alert a steward, not easy in that level of busyness. I suspect the West Lower concourse would be the same.
But it should be on the clubs website, i know its hassle, but looks like an accident waiting to happen, by the looks of it.0 -
I imagine that the trust would be consulting what was formerly Supporters direct, who I contacted several times in regard to supporters matters , they had some excellent staff, unfortunately it was disbanded a few years ago.....as it states on Wicki "Unfortunately SD ran into some financial difficulties and was placed under pressure by the Fans Fund (which is run by the Premier League to merge back office operations with the Football Supporters Federation. Some felt that this was due to Supporters Direct often being critical of the way football is governed. However, on 28 July 2018 a full merger was approved by both organisations at their AGMs.".....
The new organisation the FSA does take up cases see; https://thefsa.org.uk/news/chelsea-fans-call-for-uefa-action-over-polish-police-mistreatment/......... Not sure if Championship clubs are part of there remit, which would be a great pity, as these organisations have a lot more clout than individuals, or small groups as they are recognised by the government. If they are I expect they will consult with them.
Also a complaint backed by the Greenwich MP, would result in more consultation, and hopefully a better thought out plan for next year' s game at the Valley. Personally speaking I am still not convinced that Millwall should be dealt separately to other teams as `I said on Saturday's pre match on here. Not sure about how they were able to hire a box, and other aspects. I am not on the trust board, but we had a saying when we formed this organisation ' Being a Critical friend' , was not easy then, and I suspect now.
I am not for digging people out, but this game was poorly executed in my opinion on this matter.3 -
ken from bexley said:I imagine that the trust would be consulting what was formerly Supporters direct, who I contacted several times in regard to supporters matters , they had some excellent staff, unfortunately it was disbanded a few years ago.....as it states on Wicki "Unfortunately SD ran into some financial difficulties and was placed under pressure by the Fans Fund (which is run by the Premier League to merge back office operations with the Football Supporters Federation. Some felt that this was due to Supporters Direct often being critical of the way football is governed. However, on 28 July 2018 a full merger was approved by both organisations at their AGMs.".....
The new organisation the FSA does take up cases see; https://thefsa.org.uk/news/chelsea-fans-call-for-uefa-action-over-polish-police-mistreatment/......... Not sure if Championship clubs are part of there remit, which would be a great pity, as these organisations have a lot more clout than individuals, or small groups as they are recognised by the government. If they are I expect they will consult with them.
Also a complaint backed by the Greenwich MP, would result in more consultation, and hopefully a better thought out plan for next year' s game at the Valley. Personally speaking I am still not convinced that Millwall should be dealt separately to other teams as `I said on Saturday's pre match on here. Not sure about how they were able to hire a box, and other aspects. I am not on the trust board, but we had a saying when we formed this organisation ' Being a Critical friend' , was not easy then, and I suspect now.
I am not for digging people out, but this game was poorly executed in my opinion on this matter.
THE FSA covers the whole of football in England and Wales. CAST is an affiliate of the FSA and in fact a CAST board member is a member of the FSA Board and one of the Championship representatives on the National Council.1 -
I thought so Bob, so I am assuming that you will be seeking 'advice' , the FSA is an organisation I have not dealt with.bobmunro said:ken from bexley said:I imagine that the trust would be consulting what was formerly Supporters direct, who I contacted several times in regard to supporters matters , they had some excellent staff, unfortunately it was disbanded a few years ago.....as it states on Wicki "Unfortunately SD ran into some financial difficulties and was placed under pressure by the Fans Fund (which is run by the Premier League to merge back office operations with the Football Supporters Federation. Some felt that this was due to Supporters Direct often being critical of the way football is governed. However, on 28 July 2018 a full merger was approved by both organisations at their AGMs.".....
The new organisation the FSA does take up cases see; https://thefsa.org.uk/news/chelsea-fans-call-for-uefa-action-over-polish-police-mistreatment/......... Not sure if Championship clubs are part of there remit, which would be a great pity, as these organisations have a lot more clout than individuals, or small groups as they are recognised by the government. If they are I expect they will consult with them.
Also a complaint backed by the Greenwich MP, would result in more consultation, and hopefully a better thought out plan for next year' s game at the Valley. Personally speaking I am still not convinced that Millwall should be dealt separately to other teams as `I said on Saturday's pre match on here. Not sure about how they were able to hire a box, and other aspects. I am not on the trust board, but we had a saying when we formed this organisation ' Being a Critical friend' , was not easy then, and I suspect now.
I am not for digging people out, but this game was poorly executed in my opinion on this matter.
THE FSA covers the whole of football in England and Wales. CAST is an affiliate of the FSA and in fact a CAST board member is a member of the FSA Board and one of the Championship representatives on the National Council.
I was glad to see the pdf today from the Trust. I was the board member when the previous event happened at the fans forum, and 'lessons were claimed to have been learnt'. Perhaps as the CAFC board has changed, they should review there previous comments expressed at that meeting in regard to the 'Millwall game'.2 -
A CAST board member attends and inputs to the Safety Advisory Group. This is not a club committee.JohnnyH2 said:
We used to have a fans rep on the Safety Committee, anyone know if this still occurs?Kap10 said:
Maybe the Club are gathering all the facts and investigating if, in their opinion, anything went wrong and if so what was it, where did the responsibility lie and steps for the future, before responding. IF that is the case then they should at least let fans know and give a time frame for a full response.valleynick66 said:
Good to hear.Airman Brown said:
I think it’s only fair to report that as a result of this post, Gavin has now responded to the person who wrote to him.Airman Brown said:
A well respected former staff member recently wrote to Gavin Carter with a goodwill message and a friendly offer to discuss something to help the club on the basis of their many years of experience. They didn’t want anything in return.valleynick66 said:
As I said I don’t like it but there is a logic to it.JohnnyH2 said:
And everything you have posted was said after the game in 2013 when pretty much the same arrangements were used.valleynick66 said:I think with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable.There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting.I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call.We don’t like it and consider it unfair but it’s not without any safety merit.
What can’t be defended however is the associated club comms, marshalling/announcements post game and not limiting vehicle access in Charlton Lane ie the implementation of it.The Sam Bartram gate / steps fighting I think is likely to be a ‘hands up we got that wrong’ issue as never really seen before to my knowledge.I’d expect (sadly) a similar arrangement next time with a commitment to handle it better.
And as shown by Saturday and the lack of comms before during and after from our club, nothing has changed in how our own supporters were treated at our groundThe corporate knowledge by police and club is lost over the passage of time.But of course not by fans who have no input it seems despite the club statements to the contrary on ‘engagement’ and other such guff!Fair enough if the club isn’t interested in their view, but they didn’t even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement to say thanks but no thanks.
And no, it wasn’t me.Interesting that GC reads this site / is made aware I guess.Strange also then no comms on the wider subject.
As an aside, I would like to see the fans represented when deciding on the security arrangements for games, maybe not in a decision making capacity but certainly in an advisory / consultative capacity.3 -
It all went well for the Police....couldn't be better.cabbles said:I said on the other thread I was wrong for believing in and trying to argue for what the authorities thought best.From the police’s point of view, I very much doubt there is anything to follow up on, much less change next year. They will see Saturday as a non event, despite the footage and incidents. I would imagine it’s acceptable collateral damage (I’m not downplaying what happened to those that got caught up in it, it must’ve been horrible), more highlighting that they’ll be done with it.
It would be great if we had someone within the operations side of the club to step up on our behalf, but I feel that despite the investment shown by the owners on the playing side of the pitch, this highlights that the backend is still very much being held together with the minimum investment and resource.
Any trouble was inside the ground - not their problem ✅
The 20k meek & mild Charlton fans complied so no trouble there ✅
Lets do it again next season. ✅
Just a shame I don't go to the station & go the other way up Coxmount Rd & get a bus outside Maryon Wilson Pk. I did make a couple of bleating noises as we all.followed each other like sheep, but no-one joined on.
Too passive I'm afraid. But I am looking forward to the reverse fixture & being let out first for a change. Precedents and all that.5 -
Good point. Are you going to email the club about it or would you like CAST to raise? If the latter, please email secretary@castrust.org and we’ll pick it up from there.AFKABartram said:One thing not mentioned in the CAST letter is around stewarding numbers. As mentioned on the other thread, there doesn't seem to be a single difference in the AC Stand between barely attended midweek L1 games and a near full Champ risk game like Saturday where there is a high likelihood of away fans acquiring side stand tickets. No SIA response staff and just the standard number of block entrance ‘greeters’ within the seat section.I just looked at one of the pics my son took at half time which shows half the concourse and it made me realise there is never ever even a single steward on the concourse at half time. You can see from the below how busy it is, and that’s the same for pretty much every game. If an incident happened there at half time, or even someone was taken ill it would need someone to go back in the stand and alert a steward, not easy in that level of busyness. I suspect the West Lower concourse would be the same.3 -
I bet a pound to a penny that you will be remonstrating with the police as they block the back route to the station. In fact I'll make it a double - it will also be pissing down.golfaddick said:
It all went well for the Police....couldn't be better.cabbles said:I said on the other thread I was wrong for believing in and trying to argue for what the authorities thought best.From the police’s point of view, I very much doubt there is anything to follow up on, much less change next year. They will see Saturday as a non event, despite the footage and incidents. I would imagine it’s acceptable collateral damage (I’m not downplaying what happened to those that got caught up in it, it must’ve been horrible), more highlighting that they’ll be done with it.
It would be great if we had someone within the operations side of the club to step up on our behalf, but I feel that despite the investment shown by the owners on the playing side of the pitch, this highlights that the backend is still very much being held together with the minimum investment and resource.
Any trouble was inside the ground - not their problem ✅
The 20k meek & mild Charlton fans complied so no trouble there ✅
Lets do it again next season. ✅
Just a shame I don't go to the station & go the other way up Coxmount Rd & get a bus outside Maryon Wilson Pk. I did make a couple of bleating noises as we all.followed each other like sheep, but no-one joined on.
Too passive I'm afraid. But I am looking forward to the reverse fixture & being let out first for a change. Precedents and all that.
0 -
Couple of questions from me about keeping fans in the away end for a while after the game.
Have we ever done it before with Millwall, or anyone else, how did that go?
The issues at the JS/Curbs gate ... this is a reminder that the JS is a vast site, east to west and fronts onto the pitch, and not particularly secure as we have now seen. I'm wondering if the size of the site and how secure exit points can be kept was a factor in a lock in not being chosen by police? At Millwall, from memory, there's little place to go and a lock in quite easy to control.2
