This was a serious error of judgement by Jones and the management team. I think the treatment of Macauley Gillesphey by Jones is poor management especially (basically relegating him) notwithstanding he was top rated in independent ratings last year. The new players were awful in possession, fight, nous and general demeanour. Whilst understanding the need to allow young players experience as others have said no senior players as back up is poor. Anderson has 1 good game in 8, Kelman needs to get a bit of Godden in him, Mitchell although poor needs to strengthen his approach (Mac had to change positions in the 2nd half to combat the physical threat). Knibbs and JRC need a rocket. Mbick not ready.
Not sure where you're coming from with this.
Yes, he had a great season for us last season, but it's been decided Bell is ahead of him in the league starting 11, so he's on the bench and starting cup games.
Why is that poor management?
You can't just keep the same 11 because they got promoted and had a great season last year. I like Gillesphey, but Bell hasn't done anything wrong to be dropped so far, and in fact is starting to look stronger game by game.
I don’t think that this argument can be used when the same is true for Gillesphey. It’s not like he even played the 1st league game this season.
Of course it can. It has been decided that Bell is an upgrade on Gillesphey, so he's been dropped to the bench.
That's football. You may not have done anything wrong, but if your club buys a player that's perceived to be better than you, then you'll be placed on the bench.
It's a very long and hard season in Championship. Im certain Gillesphey will start some league games.
Starting him in cup games and on the bench for league games is not poor management.
NJ comments about depth make me think he was sending a message upstairs with his bench tonight
Perhaps, but the owners have backed him. He chose to sign a crocked centre back but now wants another one. Would understand if they're bit pissed off about that.
Why let Alex Mitchell go out on loan if you are that stretched in defense?
Didn’t something happen and it was done to send a message?
This was a serious error of judgement by Jones and the management team. I think the treatment of Macauley Gillesphey by Jones is poor management especially (basically relegating him) notwithstanding he was top rated in independent ratings last year. The new players were awful in possession, fight, nous and general demeanour. Whilst understanding the need to allow young players experience as others have said no senior players as back up is poor. Anderson has 1 good game in 8, Kelman needs to get a bit of Godden in him, Mitchell although poor needs to strengthen his approach (Mac had to change positions in the 2nd half to combat the physical threat). Knibbs and JRC need a rocket. Mbick not ready.
Not sure where you're coming from with this.
Yes, he had a great season for us last season, but it's been decided Bell is ahead of him in the league starting 11, so he's on the bench and starting cup games.
Why is that poor management?
You can't just keep the same 11 because they got promoted and had a great season last year. I like Gillesphey, but Bell hasn't done anything wrong to be dropped so far, and in fact is starting to look stronger game by game.
I don’t think that this argument can be used when the same is true for Gillesphey. It’s not like he even played the 1st league game this season.
After watching him last night it is plain to see why Bell is starting. Every long ball he played was over hit and as the senior player and captain he should have been doing more to organise the youngsters around him. He was very good in the second half of last season but, so far, Bell has shown himself to be player.
The body language after we scored says it all. Doesn’t look like anyone gave a shit. Poor Fullah didn’t even have anyone to celebrate his great goal with.
Almost made a late decision to go last night, but then realised it was a 7.30 KO so wouldn't have made it.
Glad I didn't! And to be honest, that performance and the all-round lack of effort/interest into progressing to the next round has completely put me off attending any future early cup rounds.
Refuse to read 140+ posts, all probably understandably negative and annoyed comments. We lost, and frankly deserved everything we got… On to the important stuff Saturday when the first team need to turn in a decent performance to gain a result… 🙏
After two games, 4 points from 6 and we're comfortably staying up.
Lose to Leicester, very unlucky and people are proud of the team.
The reserves lose last night and we're s***.
All of a sudden we have lost two on the trot, and Leicester is forgotten about.
Last season Jones used 36 players in all competitions, a drop from 48 in 2022-2023 and 2023-2024. This season, and its still August, he has used 31 so far. If you include the Southend game - a dummy run for how he would set the team up - its 34. Yes...we all know staying up is the objective, but very disappointing to quit the League Cup, where there is always an outside chance of a Championship side making the final. Feel Jones should have played a significantly stronger side, rather than treat the fixture as a throwaway game.
I rarely post on this forum but found t last nights performance to be worrying.If these are the back up players then there is a problem.In particular I found the defensive formation to be very poor.Zach Mitchell looked to have no confidence and Gillesphey looked disinterested, only Kelman seemed to be trying and Jones gave up the match far too early. We need a strong squad and I hope last night was just a blip and I would recall Alex Mitchell
That bench was bizarre, and i think the "not bothered about this competition " vibe infected the senior pros starting the game.
Yes that defence was desperately weak, but that doesn't excuse the poor midfield and attack. When we attacked, it looked like 11 strangers thrown together, with no tactics. Pub football hoofs up the pitch from Gillesphey and Mitchell, Anderson endlessly passing the ball sideways or backwards, Tanto looking lost like a youngster making his debut, Rankin-Costello taking corners that barely reached the 6 yard box, Knibbs invisible.
Not only are we out of the competition, but also a chance to get some of our new attackers up to speed and confident has been thrown away. Imagine we had won 4-2, with Kelman and Tanto both getting a brace, how beneficial that would have been for them. For the league.
The body language after we scored says it all. Doesn’t look like anyone gave a shit. Poor Fullah didn’t even have anyone to celebrate his great goal with.
Almost made a late decision to go last night, but then realised it was a 7.30 KO so wouldn't have made it.
Glad I didn't! And to be honest, that performance and the all-round lack of effort/interest into progressing to the next round has completely put me off attending any future early cup rounds.
It's taken you a long time to come to this conclusion
Just a thought, what if NJ had fielded a full strength side. And say one of the seniors, TC or Lloyd got a bad knock and was out for a period of time. Would we been chirping up about loosing a main 1st teamer in a competition we where very unlikely to win anyway.
We are unlikely to win the League. Perhaps we should play the youngsters on Saturday then 🙄
Just a thought, what if NJ had fielded a full strength side. And say one of the seniors, TC or Lloyd got a bad knock and was out for a period of time. Would we been chirping up about loosing a main 1st teamer in a competition we where very unlikely to win anyway.
We are unlikely to win the League. Perhaps we should play the youngsters on Saturday then 🙄
That argument doesn't work because you don't get relegated by being knocked out the cup
Last night's inept performance re-inforced a few things for me.
First ... under Jones, whenever we have underperformed, it is generally attributable to the lack of hold-up play by our forwards. None of our forwards naturally play with their back to the goal. Godden can do it to some extent, but he is not sufficiently big or physical to do it well. Leaburn has the physique, but not the mentality. I find that quite curious as his Dad was very good at holding the ball up, whereas Miles prefers the pointless flick on.
Both Kelman and Olaofe prefer to run on to the ball. Again, they are not forward target men.
The consequence of this is that our midfielders and defenders are reluctant to play the ball forward. They know that it will not stick ... and it's effectively equivalent to giving the ball to the opposition. This problem characterised the first half of last season ... until Jones 'decided' to play Small wide on the right. Our targets then became the wingers/wing backs and the balls forward were usually hit diagonally. This method served us well and earned Jones some praise.
I assume that same approach was intended last night. But, when it clearly wasn't working, Jones had nowhere to go. No lumbering Aneke to bring on. No woeful Ahadme. So we had to persist with a fruitless plan. Personnel changes were made, but nothing improved.
This re-inforced for me a concerning trait that Jones exhibits. He is single-minded. Inflexible unless circumstances force change. Great when it all works well, but we will see repeats of last night unless Jones can learn from his mistakes.
Second ... our Academy receives great praise ... and rightfully so. But the output players, however talented, generally suffer from lack of physicality. We produce good footballers, but generally they are lightweight. Boys rather than powerful athletes. Look back over the years at those who have made it to the very top. Gomez, Konsa, Lookman and some others. All good footballers, but potentially out-muscled when they come up against more athletic opponents. This becomes more significant in the lower Leagues, of course. And, if you saw Cambridge's second goal last night ... well, enough said.
So, how to fix it?
We need a big, strong hold-up forward. Maybe Danny Hylton needs to earn his corn and get on Miles' case ... although I suspect that ship has sailed. It isn't Ahadme. It isn't Mbick.
And the Academy needs to modify its Target Product Profile (a little bit of business-speak here for those who enjoy such things). Keep going with the technical side. That's fine. But let's improve the physicality. Let's develop some athletes who are good footballers ... think Roy Keane and Patrick Viera ... not Albie Morgan or Aaron Henry.
Just a thought, what if NJ had fielded a full strength side. And say one of the seniors, TC or Lloyd got a bad knock and was out for a period of time. Would we been chirping up about loosing a main 1st teamer in a competition we where very unlikely to win anyway.
We are unlikely to win the League. Perhaps we should play the youngsters on Saturday then 🙄
Oh dear golfie, try not to get too het up about it mate, we will be fine…now have a cuppa and calm down eh…👍
I remember back in the day when you put out your strongest side in League & Cup. Maybe the odd change here or there....not the whole team with the bench full of teenagers.
Oh good. Here come the teenagers. This has really helped Kelman tonight hasn't it.
But you don't seem to understand that back in the day there was no TV money. We get (roughly) £10M more TV money in The Championship than in L1. One might think that as a Financial Adviser you would have a basic grasp of the financial situation.
When clubs like Charlton send basically a reserve team ,including many kids,the opposing manager does not need a team talk,something along the lines,"they are taking the piss out of you by playing their reserves and kids and thinking they are going to beat you".Players wound up,and there you go. The 4 senior players we played were poor,none showed what was needed to cause Jones any selection worries.Kelman,tbh concerns me,yes early days,but he does not get into positions where he can score,people saying he gets no service,but he has got to put the effort in to find a bit of space. Two goals scored from cut backs,that is atrocious at any level,neither of the scorers were really challenged,Mitchell seemed to stop chasing the man for the first goal.Mitchell lost his duel for the second goal,but surely he was entitled to bodies round him waiting for the possible mishap. Think this game should be analysed in detail by Jones ,errors pointed out and then consigned to the dust bin and hope lessons are learnt.
Last night's inept performance re-inforced a few things for me.
First ... under Jones, whenever we have underperformed, it is generally attributable to the lack of hold-up play by our forwards. None of our forwards naturally play with their back to the goal. Godden can do it to some extent, but he is not sufficiently big or physical to do it well. Leaburn has the physique, but not the mentality. I find that quite curious as his Dad was very good at holding the ball up, whereas Miles prefers the pointless flick on.
Both Kelman and Olaofe prefer to run on to the ball. Again, they are not forward target men.
The consequence of this is that our midfielders and defenders are reluctant to play the ball forward. They know that it will not stick ... and it's effectively equivalent to giving the ball to the opposition. This problem characterised the first half of last season ... until Jones 'decided' to play Small wide on the right. Our targets then became the wingers/wing backs and the balls forward were usually hit diagonally. This method served us well and earned Jones some praise.
I assume that same approach was intended last night. But, when it clearly wasn't working, Jones had nowhere to go. No lumbering Aneke to bring on. No woeful Ahadme. So we had to persist with a fruitless plan. Personnel changes were made, but nothing improved.
This re-inforced for me a concerning trait that Jones exhibits. He is single-minded. Inflexible unless circumstances force change. Great when it all works well, but we will see repeats of last night unless Jones can learn from his mistakes.
Second ... our Academy receives great praise ... and rightfully so. But the output players, however talented, generally suffer from lack of physicality. We produce good footballers, but generally they are lightweight. Boys rather than powerful athletes. Look back over the years at those who have made it to the very top. Gomez, Konsa, Lookman and some others. All good footballers, but potentially out-muscled when they come up against more athletic opponents. This becomes more significant in the lower Leagues, of course. And, if you saw Cambridge's second goal last night ... well, enough said.
So, how to fix it?
We need a big, strong hold-up forward. Maybe Danny Hylton needs to earn his corn and get on Miles' case ... although I suspect that ship has sailed. It isn't Ahadme. It isn't Mbick.
And the Academy needs to modify its Target Product Profile (a little bit of business-speak here for those who enjoy such things). Keep going with the technical side. That's fine. But let's improve the physicality. Let's develop some athletes who are good footballers ... think Roy Keane and Patrick Viera ... not Albie Morgan or Aaron Henry.
Brilliant post. Lack of physicality haunts us. Could add Dempsey and Vennings from 2020/21. Maybe other clubs suffer this too and to an extent it must be a natural part of a development curve, but the TPP as you say, could be modified accordingly.
But I should imagine that the athletes that are good footballers are the ones that are getting poached by the big clubs before we even get to see them in the U21s.
But I should imagine that the athletes that are good footballers are the ones that are getting poached by the big clubs before we even get to see them in the U21s.
Agree, with examples such as Beadle, Sarmiento, Ramazani and Palmer having left and played Championship football.
Or they’re players like Mbick who are big, strong, and sometimes quick too, but look very raw, either lacking with their control or reading of the game, decision making etc.
All academy players who come through will be lacking somewhere in their game, even Lookman and Shelvey were inconsistent, Gomez and Konsa had to learn to handle senior strikers etc.
The initial issue last night was our back five had four 18-20 year olds. Individually they might do ok alongside experienced defenders, but playing them together was always a big risk.
When clubs like Charlton send basically a reserve team ,including many kids,the opposing manager does not need a team talk,something along the lines,"they are taking the piss out of you by playing their reserves and kids and thinking they are going to beat you".Players wound up,and there you go. The 4 senior players we played were poor,none showed what was needed to cause Jones any selection worries.Kelman,tbh concerns me,yes early days,but he does not get into positions where he can score,people saying he gets no service,but he has got to put the effort in to find a bit of space. Two goals scored from cut backs,that is atrocious at any level,neither of the scorers were really challenged,Mitchell seemed to stop chasing the man for the first goal.Mitchell lost his duel for the second goal,but surely he was entitled to bodies round him waiting for the possible mishap. Think this game should be analysed in detail by Jones ,errors pointed out and then consigned to the dust bin and hope lessons are learnt.
AMB, Gillesphey, JRC, Anderson, Knibbs, Kelman and Olaofe are all senior players. That's 7, we started 4 youth team players (and one of them was great!)
We are missing another Winger in the TC/Apter/Small mode, we got away with it last season as neither got injured. Similar to the start of last season we don't have enough pace, we dont have that player that can jink past a player and get a ball over or cut in and have a shot. Yesterday we all had static players with no pace and had no outlet to pass to, that's why we caused them no problems in the first half. If Apter or TC get's injured we will struggle.
Just a thought, what if NJ had fielded a full strength side. And say one of the seniors, TC or Lloyd got a bad knock and was out for a period of time. Would we been chirping up about loosing a main 1st teamer in a competition we where very unlikely to win anyway.
That can happen in the league as well, injuries are part of the game so I don't get your point here. If Lloyd was to get injured in the first minute against QPR and out for 6 months, what difference would it make vs getting injured in the 85th minute at Cambridge in the Cup.
British Football academies in general aren't producing physical players any more, hence the glut of talented wingers, attacking fullbacks and wide attackers, and shortage of the traditional British strong positions of goalkeepers, commanding centre backs and big number 9s.
At the start of the window, I recall wanting a big lump number 9 to give us that plan b target man option from the bench. Someone like Michael Smith, as we've not replaced Chuks.
Just a thought, what if NJ had fielded a full strength side. And say one of the seniors, TC or Lloyd got a bad knock and was out for a period of time. Would we been chirping up about loosing a main 1st teamer in a competition we where very unlikely to win anyway.
That can happen in the league as well, injuries are part of the game so I don't get your point here. If Lloyd was to get injured in the first minute against QPR and out for 6 months, what difference would it make vs getting injured in the 85th minute at Cambridge in the Cup.
Berry , Ahadme , Asiiwme , A Mitchell ,Kanu, Taylor , Dixon …… these are the players that would have been involved last night makes a big difference especially in defence
Interesting team, a test for Hobden as we saw with Rylah in the last cup game. A natural defender rather than a winger like Rylah, plays CB/RB/RWB in the u21s, a real battler, solid and reliable, grabs the odd goal.
AMB
Laq Zach Gillesphey
Hobden Fullah
Anderson JRC
Knibbs
Kelman Tanto
Subs for those who don’t know:
Reuben Reid - winger/striker, very exciting, pace, tricks and a good size, only 17. I said we might see a cup cameo from him this season, nice to see it could be as soon as tonight.
Keenan Gough - CB/DM/CM, like Hobden a solid reliable player, bit of an all rounder. Captained at u18 and u21 level.
Paris Lock - winger, son of Chris, signed after leaving Wimbledon this summer.
Ty Ewens-Findlay - CB, signed after leaving Cambridge Utd this summer so could make his debut vs his old club.
My eldest boy is friends with T-EF and he rates him very very highly. Hoping he can get on the pitch tonight.
Do you know if Cambridge released him or offered him a new deal?
Not sure. I will ask the question. I have a feeling it may have been down to budgets rather than ability. And clearly the lad has something if Charlton were keen to pick him up. My boy said "he'll be near the 1st team soon", but you have to take that with a pinch of salt clearly! Although...here he is on the bench 😃
Edit. As in my boy said 1st team as in the REAL first team league fixtures
It was as i suspected @Scoham not enough budget to offer him something, hence moving on.
Comments
It would be close though. Actual numbers:
6 Burnley
8 Cardiff
9 Chelsea
If we won last night:
6 Burnley
7 Cardiff
8 Charlton
9 Chelsea
So we would’ve got the draw Cardiff will get. And if Cambridge get a good draw, Cardiff can curse us for losing last night.
Every long ball he played was over hit and as the senior player and captain he should have been doing more to organise the youngsters around him.
He was very good in the second half of last season but, so far, Bell has shown himself to be player.
Glad I didn't! And to be honest, that performance and the all-round lack of effort/interest into progressing to the next round has completely put me off attending any future early cup rounds.
last nights performance to be worrying.If these are the back up players then there is a problem.In particular I found the defensive formation to be very poor.Zach Mitchell looked to have no confidence and Gillesphey looked disinterested, only Kelman seemed to be trying and Jones gave up the match far too early.
We need a strong squad and I hope last night was just a blip and I would recall Alex Mitchell
We come in at the 3rd round.
Yes that defence was desperately weak, but that doesn't excuse the poor midfield and attack. When we attacked, it looked like 11 strangers thrown together, with no tactics. Pub football hoofs up the pitch from Gillesphey and Mitchell, Anderson endlessly passing the ball sideways or backwards, Tanto looking lost like a youngster making his debut, Rankin-Costello taking corners that barely reached the 6 yard box, Knibbs invisible.
Not only are we out of the competition, but also a chance to get some of our new attackers up to speed and confident has been thrown away. Imagine we had won 4-2, with Kelman and Tanto both getting a brace, how beneficial that would have been for them. For the league.
First ... under Jones, whenever we have underperformed, it is generally attributable to the lack of hold-up play by our forwards. None of our forwards naturally play with their back to the goal. Godden can do it to some extent, but he is not sufficiently big or physical to do it well. Leaburn has the physique, but not the mentality. I find that quite curious as his Dad was very good at holding the ball up, whereas Miles prefers the pointless flick on.
Both Kelman and Olaofe prefer to run on to the ball. Again, they are not forward target men.
The consequence of this is that our midfielders and defenders are reluctant to play the ball forward. They know that it will not stick ... and it's effectively equivalent to giving the ball to the opposition. This problem characterised the first half of last season ... until Jones 'decided' to play Small wide on the right. Our targets then became the wingers/wing backs and the balls forward were usually hit diagonally. This method served us well and earned Jones some praise.
I assume that same approach was intended last night. But, when it clearly wasn't working, Jones had nowhere to go. No lumbering Aneke to bring on. No woeful Ahadme. So we had to persist with a fruitless plan. Personnel changes were made, but nothing improved.
This re-inforced for me a concerning trait that Jones exhibits. He is single-minded. Inflexible unless circumstances force change. Great when it all works well, but we will see repeats of last night unless Jones can learn from his mistakes.
Second ... our Academy receives great praise ... and rightfully so. But the output players, however talented, generally suffer from lack of physicality. We produce good footballers, but generally they are lightweight. Boys rather than powerful athletes. Look back over the years at those who have made it to the very top. Gomez, Konsa, Lookman and some others. All good footballers, but potentially out-muscled when they come up against more athletic opponents. This becomes more significant in the lower Leagues, of course. And, if you saw Cambridge's second goal last night ... well, enough said.
So, how to fix it?
We need a big, strong hold-up forward. Maybe Danny Hylton needs to earn his corn and get on Miles' case ... although I suspect that ship has sailed. It isn't Ahadme. It isn't Mbick.
And the Academy needs to modify its Target Product Profile (a little bit of business-speak here for those who enjoy such things). Keep going with the technical side. That's fine. But let's improve the physicality. Let's develop some athletes who are good footballers ... think Roy Keane and Patrick Viera ... not Albie Morgan or Aaron Henry.
We get (roughly) £10M more TV money in The Championship than in L1.
One might think that as a Financial Adviser you would have a basic grasp of the financial situation.
The 4 senior players we played were poor,none showed what was needed to cause Jones any selection worries.Kelman,tbh concerns me,yes early days,but he does not get into positions where he can score,people saying he gets no service,but he has got to put the effort in to find a bit of space.
Two goals scored from cut backs,that is atrocious at any level,neither of the scorers were really challenged,Mitchell seemed to stop chasing the man for the first goal.Mitchell lost his duel for the second goal,but surely he was entitled to bodies round him waiting for the possible mishap.
Think this game should be analysed in detail by Jones ,errors pointed out and then consigned to the dust bin and hope lessons are learnt.
Or they’re players like Mbick who are big, strong, and sometimes quick too, but look very raw, either lacking with their control or reading of the game, decision making etc.
The initial issue last night was our back five had four 18-20 year olds. Individually they might do ok alongside experienced defenders, but playing them together was always a big risk.
Fullah also impressed.
At the start of the window, I recall wanting a big lump number 9 to give us that plan b target man option from the bench. Someone like Michael Smith, as we've not replaced Chuks.
And has done recently.