no need for such mass wholesale changes, after this weekend it's an international break - should've had a bench full of first teamers and not kids (some of whom had already played that day!)
Watch Cambridge now get a cracking draw to really rub salt into the wounds
On the flipside though, we really need to be making the most of QPR's bad start to the season and get a much needed 3 points. If we'd played Ramsay and he'd got injured - which given how hurt he looked against Leicester seemed very possible - we'd be in a bit of a bind; unlikely to play Lloyd Jones at RCB so it would probably have to be Zach Mitchell there in a Championship game and he just got shown up against a L2 side.
While the result and the performance were both extremely disappointing it's probably worth remembering that it was just one game - we're hardly in the midst of a run of bad performances, the "actual" team play much much better than that.
Hopefully it's just a case of a game we can just write off as a bad day all round - the players weren't at the races, Jones got it wrong with the squad selection, the ref wasn't great etc etc.
A decent result on the next run out and we will quickly forget this little debacle.
You can’t dress up a pig and it’s hard to take any positives from last night.
We've no Papa Johns Trophy this season so we save 4-5 games from that, we don’t do R1&2 of the FA Cup so we’ve saved another 2 games there, and the majority of our squad won’t be called up for internationals, so will get 3 break points between now and mid November alone. So there should be no concern about overplay.
i get fully the need to give some squad players minutes and experience, that’s important and this cup gives an opportunity for that. But there was absolutely no need to do so to such an extent that a number of the kids on the bench had already played a competitive game earlier the same day. That just showed we were putting zero effort into progressing.
Yes cups can be a distraction. They can also be exciting for fans, money spinners for clubs and momentum providers for teams. We so rarely experience, we’ve exited this competition before it’s even fully started 8 out of the last 9 seasons. Absolutely pitiful.
Most of the youngsters fielded last night didn’t get a particularly positive experience from it, none of the fringe first teamers put a case forward and now the backdrop is a negative one putting additional pressure on Saturday following 2 defeats in 4 days.
We exited early last season and went on to have a great season so it’s not the be all and end all, and if we win on Saturday many people will quickly point and say told you so etc,
it’s just our performances and results in cups are so consistently disappointing as a fan and last night felt a bit unecessary.
If i had to take a really wild guess I’d say that we might have put out a stronger side last night had the transfer window been closed. We showcased some weaknesses in our plan B squad members last night.
TBF, last time we were promoted, injuries and suspensions as the season progressed saw us playing 16 year old kids just to put out a team. As frustrating as it is to lose what should have been an easily winnable cup game, strengthening the squad when we can does make much more sense. I’m still pissed off about it though.
Can't really compare as we were under an embargo due to ESI, which is why we were fielding such dross from January onwards
This was a serious error of judgement by Jones and the management team. I think the treatment of Macauley Gillesphey by Jones is poor management especially (basically relegating him) notwithstanding he was top rated in independent ratings last year. The new players were awful in possession, fight, nous and general demeanour. Whilst understanding the need to allow young players experience as others have said no senior players as back up is poor. Anderson has 1 good game in 8, Kelman needs to get a bit of Godden in him, Mitchell although poor needs to strengthen his approach (Mac had to change positions in the 2nd half to combat the physical threat). Knibbs and JRC need a rocket. Mbick not ready.
The warning signs were there against Stevenage when they brought on some of their better players in the second half and we looked second best. The bench yesterday was a complete piss take - you had a few guys on the bench who had played an u21 game in the day earlier.
NJ comments about depth make me think he was sending a message upstairs with his bench tonight
I'm pretty sure there is open dialogue between the manager and the board about the strengths and weaknesses of the squad. There will be no need for surreptitious messages.
He put out a team that had a chance against Cambridge to protect his players for the bigger game against QPR.
I'm not overly embarrassed by the result. If we stay up this year, then a loss to Cambridge in the second round of the league cup wont even be a footnote in the collective memory of a decent season.
I think first half there’s enough quality especially in midfield and up top to cause Cambridge problems.
7 of those 11 have been in and around the championship team so that level of performance was really disappointing.
The bench was a joke, but everyone knew that NJ does not take cup competitions seriously, especially this one.
it was an opportunity for the youngsters to gain some valuable experience against a EFL team.
This.
We made 11 changes for the First Round against Stevenage, and were pretty comfortable until the final stages when the side was full of young players.
When I saw the starting lineup last night, I felt it was certainly strong enough to beat Cambridge. The likes of JRC, Knibbs, Tanto, Anderson & Kelman should be considered potentially League game starters.
It was the backline and Wing Backs that looked concerning, and ultimately came to be our downfall.
I'm sticking with "glass half full" and putting it down as one of those nights to forget, and move on. Ramsay, Jones and Bell, with Apter and Edwards either side is an entirely different proposition. There is an issue with depth defensively which has become even more apparent.
While other Championship clubs are playing weakened starting 11's, they all have first teamers on the bench, should they be needed.
Nathan's selection sends the message that he's not bothered about the outcome & this must translate to the senior players, such as Kelman, Olaofe,Knibbs so don't think we should read too much into how they perform in this game.
Disappointing night, but probably good in that if it stops us all getting a bit carried away with the good start to the season we've had. We're on the right track, but we've still some way to go.
Dreadful decision. Momentum lost. Play a few youngsters , but have a bench to save the day if needed. But more importantly, momentum now lost.
No momentum lost at all. We were strong on Saturday against Leicester, and those players will be starting against QPR with, hopefully, a repeat performance in terms of energy, and a bit more luck in terms of goals.
The 11 that started last night, and the 11 that finished last night, had no momentum to lose.
While other Championship clubs are playing weakened starting 11's, they all have first teamers on the bench, should they be needed.
Nathan's selection sends the message that he's not bothered about the outcome & this must translate to the senior players, such as Kelman, Olaofe,Knibbs so don't think we should read too much into how they perform in this game.
This.
The Championship is worth an extra £10M to us than L1 (without arguing over exact sums). A big draw in the next round may be worth £200K. It's pretty easy to see the logic, even if I don't necessarily agree.
While other Championship clubs are playing weakened starting 11's, they all have first teamers on the bench, should they be needed.
Nathan's selection sends the message that he's not bothered about the outcome & this must translate to the senior players, such as Kelman, Olaofe,Knibbs so don't think we should read too much into how they perform in this game.
This.
The Championship is worth an extra £10M to us than L1 (without arguing over exact sums). A big draw in the next round may be worth £200K. It's pretty easy to see the logic, even if I don't necessarily agree.
The actual prize money is something stupid, it's less than £10k I think. If you then draw Port Vale at home the attendance will be so low we'd barely make money. None of that is an attempt to defend the bench yesterday but you can really see why clubs don't care about the League Cup
NJ ought to be taking his share of the blame for last night's substandard showing. The observations on (not) pressing, covering etc are valid but few of those players have had any competitive practice in NJ's system. He expected a makeshift lineup to be a carbon copy of the first XI - that's just unrealistic. KA ran himself into the ground trying to be about 3 players at once. Same can't be said for most of the other 'senior' players. If their underachievement was in part down to 'this match don't matter and we ain't playing Saturday so WTF?' then NJ's got problems. This débacle won't help to inspire the first XI on Saturday either. They'll all be confident of their selection and that opens the door to complacency, if any of them are so inclined.
In short NJ dropped a bollock and ought to be owning it.
This was a serious error of judgement by Jones and the management team. I think the treatment of Macauley Gillesphey by Jones is poor management especially (basically relegating him) notwithstanding he was top rated in independent ratings last year. The new players were awful in possession, fight, nous and general demeanour. Whilst understanding the need to allow young players experience as others have said no senior players as back up is poor. Anderson has 1 good game in 8, Kelman needs to get a bit of Godden in him, Mitchell although poor needs to strengthen his approach (Mac had to change positions in the 2nd half to combat the physical threat). Knibbs and JRC need a rocket. Mbick not ready.
Not sure Mrs. Kelman will be too please to hear this
Just a thought, what if NJ had fielded a full strength side. And say one of the seniors, TC or Lloyd got a bad knock and was out for a period of time. Would we been chirping up about loosing a main 1st teamer in a competition we where very unlikely to win anyway.
Also worth remembering in terms of the bench that not only did we have Alex Mitchell in the 11 against Stevenage but we brought on Daniel Kanu who is now out on loan and Luke Berry who is currently injured. I'd say he didn't want to bring Leaburn because he played on Saturday and probably isn't going to be risked for three games in 8 days with his injury record, so the equivalent Kelman/Leaburn swap wasn't going to be made on the night. Other than that in comparison to the bench last night, against Stevenage Apter and Docherty were there but didn't come on. We brought on 5 players against Stevenage all of whom had some first team experience except Mwamba (I'll not count the 2 minutes against Cambridge last season in the banter cup). Jones obviously didn't want to risk his first teamers at all in the last cup tie either but he had enough fringe players to put out a stronger 11 and also make some positive changes using first team squad players. Not being able to bring on the likes of Berry and Kanu (who combined for a goal) meant that if he wanted to fully rest players all that was left were kids
Even if we had played full strength asking them to come from 3-1 down after 55 mins is still a very big ask no guarantee we would have even pulled it back
Those of you who were not bothered about the Swiss Tony cup because it was crap, and now not bothered about the League Cup because we won’t win it, will presumably want us eliminated from the FA cup at the first possible opportunity as we won’t win that? Are you convinced that without that “unnecessary” interference we will get promoted to the Premier League? Or is the entire ambition you hold for the Addicks is to finish 17th in the Championship? And if we do get promoted to the EPL, will you be disappointed as we might get humped 6-0 by Arsenal?
Would you be happy with a Third Round tie, getting dicked 6-0 by Arsenal, and relegation from the Championship, because of the extra games that we've had to play? - Which competition out of all those that we have to play in, is the priority this season?
Championship survival is all that matters, all those with their opinion about tonight's defeat will be the first to voice their opinion about being back in a League that we all bloody well hate, and clearly isn't easy to get out of.
Getting relegated cos of one extra game , dear lord behave yourself!
This.
Some people tying themselves in knots just to try to make a point.
Winning is a habit. So is losing. You should go out to try to win every game. Yes, maybe rest a few players & play a couple of youngsters, but at least have a few of the experienced pro's on the bench.
Seems to me that NJ was trying to make a point. What point & to whom I dont know. Maybe putting a few youngsters in the window? Maybe telling to owners they aren't good enough (his post match comments seem to say this). What I do know is he thinks he knows best & wont be persuaded otherwise.
He’s not wrong - the youngsters, in the main, are not good enough for the Championship. We need 4-6 more players in this and the next window. I hope the owners get the point and spend a few more shillings.
Why is Nathan wrong to highlight that obvious fact?
Because he was the instigator last season of a small squad and to use the yoof instead of loans.
Now, he might just be saying what he's told to say. But Nathan doesn't strike me as someone who follows orders. He's no Yes man.
So, does he truly believe that our Academy players are brilliant & can make the step up or is it just words.
He has hardly played any academy players and last night proved that most are not good enough or ready yet. So what exactly is your point?
The owners are billionaires [allegedly], so if they spend say, another £20m-£30m, to keep us up, what's the big deal ?
NJ is our best manager in many years, so I do not get all the constant sniping about him.
Next, the signings so far - they are not at full speed yet, but taking Kelman as the example, I have not seen him enjoy any service at all yet - some moan he does not "work hard enough" and they may have a point, but the same people who whine about the current set up were whining as much under all the other clowns appointed before NJ.
Some signings may not work out - that is football, but they need to be given a chance.
NJ has done brilliantly well and he has brought the fans back in droves, but he is right to demand more support. The Leicester team is valued at £163m, so the £12m we have spent does not scratch the surface.
You are right - NJ is not a yes man and he may well fall out with the club and the fans if he feels he is not valued, so we should stay on side until we have a real reason to complain.
Our 3 league games to date have been encouraging and if we play in the league like we did last night, I might agree with the whiners.
NJ comments about depth make me think he was sending a message upstairs with his bench tonight
Perhaps, but the owners have backed him. He chose to sign a crocked centre back but now wants another one. Would understand if they're bit pissed off about that.
Why let Alex Mitchell go out on loan if you are that stretched in defense?
NJ comments about depth make me think he was sending a message upstairs with his bench tonight
It has pretty unanimous on here that this transfer window has been about our best ever & that Nathan has signed almost everyone he wanted to. Are we now saying the board hasnt supported him ?? If so then that is the first I've heard of it.
Plenty of spaces available to bring a few loans in
This was a serious error of judgement by Jones and the management team. I think the treatment of Macauley Gillesphey by Jones is poor management especially (basically relegating him) notwithstanding he was top rated in independent ratings last year. The new players were awful in possession, fight, nous and general demeanour. Whilst understanding the need to allow young players experience as others have said no senior players as back up is poor. Anderson has 1 good game in 8, Kelman needs to get a bit of Godden in him, Mitchell although poor needs to strengthen his approach (Mac had to change positions in the 2nd half to combat the physical threat). Knibbs and JRC need a rocket. Mbick not ready.
Not sure where you're coming from with this.
Yes, he had a great season for us last season, but it's been decided Bell is ahead of him in the league starting 11, so he's on the bench and starting cup games.
Why is that poor management?
You can't just keep the same 11 because they got promoted and had a great season last year. I like Gillesphey, but Bell hasn't done anything wrong to be dropped so far, and in fact is starting to look stronger game by game.
While other Championship clubs are playing weakened starting 11's, they all have first teamers on the bench, should they be needed.
Nathan's selection sends the message that he's not bothered about the outcome & this must translate to the senior players, such as Kelman, Olaofe,Knibbs so don't think we should read too much into how they perform in this game.
This.
The Championship is worth an extra £10M to us than L1 (without arguing over exact sums). A big draw in the next round may be worth £200K. It's pretty easy to see the logic, even if I don't necessarily agree.
Agree with all of the above and will feel a bit sore if Cambridge draw a top club.
NJ's priority must be our league performances and let's hope results over the coming weeks back up his judgement. Let's also remember that our record in cup games during the Curb's era weren't exactly brilliant.
But the game wasn't a confidence boost for either the travelling fans, those watching on TV or, most importantly, the players on the pitch. Whilst it's gratifying to see young talent emerging, some of these youngsters struggled last night, and the senior players either didn't show up or were starved of service (when they desperately need to start knocking in the goals).
The most concerning sight (apart from aimless long balls to no one in the first 30 mins) was the defensive ineptitude on display. With others sent on loan, these are the players who will have to step up to first team duties in the coming months due to injuries and cards. Not a reassuring thought.
Now will the Board back NJ to go out looking for defensive backup?
This was a serious error of judgement by Jones and the management team. I think the treatment of Macauley Gillesphey by Jones is poor management especially (basically relegating him) notwithstanding he was top rated in independent ratings last year. The new players were awful in possession, fight, nous and general demeanour. Whilst understanding the need to allow young players experience as others have said no senior players as back up is poor. Anderson has 1 good game in 8, Kelman needs to get a bit of Godden in him, Mitchell although poor needs to strengthen his approach (Mac had to change positions in the 2nd half to combat the physical threat). Knibbs and JRC need a rocket. Mbick not ready.
Not sure where you're coming from with this.
Yes, he had a great season for us last season, but it's been decided Bell is ahead of him in the league starting 11, so he's on the bench and starting cup games.
Why is that poor management?
You can't just keep the same 11 because they got promoted and had a great season last year. I like Gillesphey, but Bell hasn't done anything wrong to be dropped so far, and in fact is starting to look stronger game by game.
I don’t think that this argument can be used when the same is true for Gillesphey. It’s not like he even played the 1st league game this season.
Comments
Hopefully it's just a case of a game we can just write off as a bad day all round - the players weren't at the races, Jones got it wrong with the squad selection, the ref wasn't great etc etc.
A decent result on the next run out and we will quickly forget this little debacle.
Couldn't make it any clearer...🙄
7 of those 11 have been in and around the championship team so that level of performance was really disappointing.
The bench was a joke, but everyone knew that NJ does not take cup competitions seriously, especially this one.
it was an opportunity for the youngsters to gain some valuable experience against a EFL team.
Fuller has significant potential as an Attacking midfielder, he’s excellent with his feet and his goal was really well taken.
when given the opportunity I’d like to see NJ play him in a more natural position and not WB.
I would also consider loaning him out to a L2 club, he’s ready and I don’t think at this point u21 football will help he’s development to much.
He needs a higher challenge to help improve and adapt to first team football
He put out a team that had a chance against Cambridge to protect his players for the bigger game against QPR.
I'm not overly embarrassed by the result. If we stay up this year, then a loss to Cambridge in the second round of the league cup wont even be a footnote in the collective memory of a decent season.
We made 11 changes for the First Round against Stevenage, and were pretty comfortable until the final stages when the side was full of young players.
When I saw the starting lineup last night, I felt it was certainly strong enough to beat Cambridge. The likes of JRC, Knibbs, Tanto, Anderson & Kelman should be considered potentially League game starters.
It was the backline and Wing Backs that looked concerning, and ultimately came to be our downfall.
I'm sticking with "glass half full" and putting it down as one of those nights to forget, and move on. Ramsay, Jones and Bell, with Apter and Edwards either side is an entirely different proposition. There is an issue with depth defensively which has become even more apparent.
The 11 that started last night, and the 11 that finished last night, had no momentum to lose.
The Championship is worth an extra £10M to us than L1 (without arguing over exact sums).
A big draw in the next round may be worth £200K.
It's pretty easy to see the logic, even if I don't necessarily agree.
The observations on (not) pressing, covering etc are valid but few of those players have had any competitive practice in NJ's system. He expected a makeshift lineup to be a carbon copy of the first XI - that's just unrealistic. KA ran himself into the ground trying to be about 3 players at once. Same can't be said for most of the other 'senior' players. If their underachievement was in part down to 'this match don't matter and we ain't playing Saturday so WTF?' then NJ's got problems.
This débacle won't help to inspire the first XI on Saturday either. They'll all be confident of their selection and that opens the door to complacency, if any of them are so inclined.
In short NJ dropped a bollock and ought to be owning it.
The owners are billionaires [allegedly], so if they spend say, another £20m-£30m, to keep us up, what's the big deal ?
NJ is our best manager in many years, so I do not get all the constant sniping about him.
Next, the signings so far - they are not at full speed yet, but taking Kelman as the example, I have not seen him enjoy any service at all yet - some moan he does not "work hard enough" and they may have a point, but the same people who whine about the current set up were whining as much under all the other clowns appointed before NJ.
Some signings may not work out - that is football, but they need to be given a chance.
NJ has done brilliantly well and he has brought the fans back in droves, but he is right to demand more support. The Leicester team is valued at £163m, so the £12m we have spent does not scratch the surface.
You are right - NJ is not a yes man and he may well fall out with the club and the fans if he feels he is not valued, so we should stay on side until we have a real reason to complain.
Our 3 league games to date have been encouraging and if we play in the league like we did last night, I might agree with the whiners.
NJ's priority must be our league performances and let's hope results over the coming weeks back up his judgement. Let's also remember that our record in cup games during the Curb's era weren't exactly brilliant.
But the game wasn't a confidence boost for either the travelling fans, those watching on TV or, most importantly, the players on the pitch. Whilst it's gratifying to see young talent emerging, some of these youngsters struggled last night, and the senior players either didn't show up or were starved of service (when they desperately need to start knocking in the goals).
The most concerning sight (apart from aimless long balls to no one in the first 30 mins) was the defensive ineptitude on display. With others sent on loan, these are the players who will have to step up to first team duties in the coming months due to injuries and cards. Not a reassuring thought.
Now will the Board back NJ to go out looking for defensive backup?