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8+8+8

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  • Interesting to revisit it...

    Elite
    Small
    Ramsey
    L Jones
    Docherty
    Leaburn
    T Campbell
    2 new to come in this window...

    League One squad players
    Mitchell
    REG
    Edwards
    Gillesphy
    Coventry
    Berry
    Godden
    Gassan
    Aneke
    A Campbell
    T Watson


    Kids
    Kanu
    AMB
    Z Mitchell
    Laquretabua
    Enslin
    Dixon
    Anderson
    Assimwe

  • Pretty much agree with that, other than I'd argue Edwards, Mitchell and Coventry have had better seasons than Docherty who's only started to stand out more recently, aside from the odd good game here and there earlier on in the season. I think those three all have the potential to play in the Championship.
  • edited January 29
    Think Leaburn and T Campbell still count in the Youth section? 
  • edited June 3

    Revisited post promotion…
    Elite
    “players any side in League One would want, could step up”
    Kayne Ramsay
    Lloyd Jones
    Josh Edwards
    Thierry Small
    Conor Coventry
    Greg Docherty
    Luke Berry
    Matt Godden

    Consistent
    “won’t let you down when called upon”
    Will Mannion
    Macauley Gillesphey
    Alex Mitchell
    Tennai Watson
    Terry Taylor
    Alex Gilbert
    Chuks Aneke
    Danny Hylton
    Gassan Ahadme

    Academy
    “young talent able to contribute”
    Ashley Maynard-Brewer
    Zach Mitchell
    Nathan Asiimwe
    Karoy Anderson
    Tyreece Campbell
    Kaheim Dixon
    Daniel Kanu
    Miles Leaburn
  • Despite the extensive ridicule, some from me, that's quite a good table. Although could do with a couple of tweaks, possibly adding Mbick and removing Ahadme for instance
  • It still is nonsense for me. Why not have 10 - 6 - 8? Surely you try to maximise the first number without putting a limit on it.
  • Looking at next season, how many “Elite” players do we currently have that any Championship club would want and could make the step up to the Premier League? It’s probably 0 by my reckoning. 
  • edited June 3
    It still is nonsense for me. Why not have 10 - 6 - 8? Surely you try to maximise the first number without putting a limit on it.
    Of course you sign the best players you can, but this is about budgeting isn’t it? You pay the top 8 better wages, which is freed up from using academy players who are a lot cheaper as most are on their first or second pro contract. You use the remaining on squad players - you don’t want expensive players being rotated when that budget could help sign or keep (new contracts) your best players.

    Your top 8 start most games, 1-3 academy players make up the starting 11, with 1-2 squad players filling any gaps.
  • I don't believe it is being implemented, so I'm not bothering trying to insert names in columns.
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  • edited June 3
    It still is nonsense for me. Why not have 10 - 6 - 8? Surely you try to maximise the first number without putting a limit on it.
    I may not necessarily agree with the framework, and it will be interesting to see if Jones was part of its formation.

    But as with whatever transfer strategy you have there are always going to be clear limits based on the budget you want to set, as well as how much onus you want to put on developing the youth.

    They clearly feel they are willing to budget in the cost of 8 top league quality players into their budget - and that’s their prerogative.  

    I don’t think it’s quiet as simple as saying take the cost of two ‘squad’ players and use that to buy two ‘elite’ players - because squad players will inevitably be a lot cheaper to get. 
  • It still is nonsense for me. Why not have 10 - 6 - 8? Surely you try to maximise the first number without putting a limit on it.
    I may not necessarily agree with the framework, and it will be interesting to see if Jones was part of its formation.

    But as with whatever transfer strategy you have there are always going to be clear limits based on the budget you want to set, as well as how much onus you want to put on developing the youth.

    They clearly feel they are willing to budget in the cost of 8 top league quality players into their budget - and that’s their prerogative.  

    I don’t think it’s quiet as simple as saying take the cost of two ‘squad’ players and use that to buy two ‘elite’ players - because squad players will inevitably be a lot cheaper to get. 
    Jones wasn't even here when 8+8+8 as an idea was conceived and unnecessarily made public. 
  • edited June 3
    swordfish said:
    It still is nonsense for me. Why not have 10 - 6 - 8? Surely you try to maximise the first number without putting a limit on it.
    I may not necessarily agree with the framework, and it will be interesting to see if Jones was part of its formation.

    But as with whatever transfer strategy you have there are always going to be clear limits based on the budget you want to set, as well as how much onus you want to put on developing the youth.

    They clearly feel they are willing to budget in the cost of 8 top league quality players into their budget - and that’s their prerogative.  

    I don’t think it’s quiet as simple as saying take the cost of two ‘squad’ players and use that to buy two ‘elite’ players - because squad players will inevitably be a lot cheaper to get. 
    Jones wasn't even here when 8+8+8 as an idea was conceived and unnecessarily made public. 
    Considering how Jones seems to be in effect the decision maker, and got his wish to slim down the squad in January (even though the usual suspects thought it was some sort of cost cutting conspiracy) - will be interesting to know if it’s still even a thing. 
  • It was always just a Marketing Team name for a typical squad building process. You can play the triple 8 game on most promotion contenders and see the pattern. 
  • It was always just a Marketing Team name for a typical squad building process. You can play the triple 8 game on most promotion contenders and see the pattern. 
    I’m not sure other promotion contenders would have as many academy players in and around the first team?
  • swordfish said:
    It still is nonsense for me. Why not have 10 - 6 - 8? Surely you try to maximise the first number without putting a limit on it.
    I may not necessarily agree with the framework, and it will be interesting to see if Jones was part of its formation.

    But as with whatever transfer strategy you have there are always going to be clear limits based on the budget you want to set, as well as how much onus you want to put on developing the youth.

    They clearly feel they are willing to budget in the cost of 8 top league quality players into their budget - and that’s their prerogative.  

    I don’t think it’s quiet as simple as saying take the cost of two ‘squad’ players and use that to buy two ‘elite’ players - because squad players will inevitably be a lot cheaper to get. 
    Jones wasn't even here when 8+8+8 as an idea was conceived and unnecessarily made public. 
    Considering how Jones seems to be in effect the decision maker, and got his wish to slim down the squad in January (even though the usual suspects thought it was some sort of cost cutting conspiracy) - will be interesting to know if it’s still even a thing. 
    If it is, it's not something to be rigidly adhered to because that would place an additional and unnecessary restriction on the recruitment process, which I'm sure is hard enough as it is working within budgets and ensuring cover for positions.
  • Scoham said:
    It was always just a Marketing Team name for a typical squad building process. You can play the triple 8 game on most promotion contenders and see the pattern. 
    I’m not sure other promotion contenders would have as many academy players in and around the first team?

    If they had half decent academies they probably would.

    8 top players, so make them your all important spine that the vast majority of fans say you need plus 2/3 extra depending on how you see it and squad fill around it. 

    GK
    CB
    CM
    AM
    FWD

    GK
    CB CB
    CM CM
    AM
    FWD


    Revolutionary stuff this 888

  • I'd question Docherty and Berry being in the elite list. Whilst they certainly had it in them to be 'elite', I feel any magic that they had could be a bit too hit and miss. Other than that I think Callum's revisitation works well for that squad in League One. As others have said though, we're not in that division anymore. Either you need to upgrade the model for the division we're in, resulting in the majority of those players on the 'elite' list probably needing to drop down to 'consistent', or you scrap the model as an unwanted Methvenism. 
  • It was always just a Marketing Team name for a typical squad building process. You can play the triple 8 game on most promotion contenders and see the pattern. 
    I think that's close.  When I saw it presented I was convinced it was extracted from a larger presentation that had been made to potential investors.  It smacked of corporate BS - the type of stuff they present to try and convince people that there is a sustainable plan in place...
  • It still is nonsense for me. Why not have 10 - 6 - 8? Surely you try to maximise the first number without putting a limit on it.
    I'd call it a lot more than nonsense.
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  • Scoham said:
    It was always just a Marketing Team name for a typical squad building process. You can play the triple 8 game on most promotion contenders and see the pattern. 
    I’m not sure other promotion contenders would have as many academy players in and around the first team?

    If they had half decent academies they probably would.

    8 top players, so make them your all important spine that the vast majority of fans say you need plus 2/3 extra depending on how you see it and squad fill around it. 

    GK
    CB
    CM
    AM
    FWD

    GK
    CB CB
    CM CM
    AM
    FWD


    Revolutionary stuff this 888

    There are a few methods for ranking academies, and as an example on this one ours ranks 12th in the whole country. Reading are the only other L1 club last season who were near that.

    https://trainingground.guru/chelsea-top-academy-productivity-rankings-for-second-time-in-a-row/

  • Revisited post promotion…

    Elite
    “players any side in League One would want, could step up”
    Kayne Ramsay
    Lloyd Jones
    Josh Edwards
    Thierry Small
    Conor Coventry
    Greg Docherty
    Luke Berry
    Matt Godden

    Consistent
    “won’t let you down when called upon”
    Will Mannion
    Macauley Gillesphey
    Alex Mitchell
    Tennai Watson
    Terry Taylor
    Alex Gilbert
    Chuks Aneke
    Danny Hylton
    Gassan Ahadme

    Academy
    “young talent able to contribute”
    Ashley Maynard-Brewer
    Zach Mitchell
    Nathan Asiimwe
    Karoy Anderson
    Tyreece Campbell
    Kaheim Dixon
    Daniel Kanu
    Miles Leaburn
    If I was to critique that, retrospectively, I’d reduce the Elite column down to Ramsey, Jones, Small, Godden. Possibly Edwards, though I was disappointed with his play off performances. Doherty and Berry I’d def drop down. Coventry I think like Edwards has a bit to prove that they are Champ quality. 
  • edited June 3

    Revisited post promotion…

    Elite
    “players any side in League One would want, could step up”

    If it's post-promotion, shouldn't the Elite 8 be "players any side in the Championship would want, ready to step up"

    Don't think we have anybody like that at the moment, but hopefully that will change. 

  • Revisited post promotion…

    Elite
    “players any side in League One would want, could step up”
    Kayne Ramsay
    Lloyd Jones
    Josh Edwards
    Thierry Small
    Conor Coventry
    Greg Docherty
    Luke Berry
    Matt Godden

    Consistent
    “won’t let you down when called upon”
    Will Mannion
    Macauley Gillesphey
    Alex Mitchell
    Tennai Watson
    Terry Taylor
    Alex Gilbert
    Chuks Aneke
    Danny Hylton
    Gassan Ahadme

    Academy
    “young talent able to contribute”
    Ashley Maynard-Brewer
    Zach Mitchell
    Nathan Asiimwe
    Karoy Anderson
    Tyreece Campbell
    Kaheim Dixon
    Daniel Kanu
    Miles Leaburn
    I assume that academy players would move up to the other categories as they become established. TC for example, based on his role in the side, would be classed in the Elite group, and even though we didn't see it this season much, Miles might be classified as Elite as well, or certainly consistent.  

    The likes of AMB and Anderson are also established first teamers so "consistent".

    Gilesphey is arguably as "elite" as Docherty and Berry  :D
  • edited June 3
    I am of the belief that it shouldn't be an 8 8 8 and just a simple 24.

    In the end they were all elite and any side in league one would have wanted them as they all got promoted as a unit. A well oiled machine.

    I don't think it's fair to say any player is better than another as it was all a team effort.

    a whole is more valuable or effective than the sum of its individual components when they are combined

  • Revisited post promotion…

    Elite
    “players any side in League One would want, could step up”
    Kayne Ramsay
    Lloyd Jones
    Josh Edwards
    Thierry Small
    Conor Coventry
    Greg Docherty
    Luke Berry
    Matt Godden

    Consistent
    “won’t let you down when called upon”
    Will Mannion
    Macauley Gillesphey
    Alex Mitchell
    Tennai Watson
    Terry Taylor
    Alex Gilbert
    Chuks Aneke
    Danny Hylton
    Gassan Ahadme

    Academy
    “young talent able to contribute”
    Ashley Maynard-Brewer
    Zach Mitchell
    Nathan Asiimwe
    Karoy Anderson
    Tyreece Campbell
    Kaheim Dixon
    Daniel Kanu
    Miles Leaburn
    Any League One side in the top half would want to sign any of those Elite players as they all made a serious contribution to our promotion. One might even add Mannion, Gillesphey and Gilbert to that list?

    Some of the young talent from the Academy certainly contributed, just not all. Every year fans support the Academy players but some demand the finished article at the start of the season!

    And when it comes to the "consistent" list, they either contributed and/or they are out of contract so no longer a concern for our club.

    Now that we have the otcome we desired all along, it makes sense to review the approach as if it were the start of last season, or even January 2024 when this was first published. Some mistakes were made for sure, and we would all have preferred more certainty, more talent signed in January 2025. But the fact is that we showed outstanding form since early December 2024 with 15/16 of the players above playing almost all of the minutes.

    The club must now consider which of those 15 can make a serious contribution towards a mid-table finish in the Championship, and where we need to strengthen for next time.
  • Gotta try and make it something like 4-12-8 for the first season back in the Championship and gradually build from there.

    Need championship quality in not just the first 11 but from the bench/in reserve too. Then academy talent will be able to flourish in patches, rather than being out of their depth and/or becoming relied on before they’re ready
  • edited June 3
    I'm 90% sure this was a Steve Brown "invention" btw, possibly based on some advice he would've given the SMT at the time. But something he would've probably wanted to keep behind closed doors rather than out and open for ridicule.


    My reasoning for that is that he sat in the Charlton TV studio many times in the 18 odd months leading up to that SMT session and talked about winning promotion with a core 7-8 players that can step up and supplementing that core with consistent performers at the level plus academy talent.

    It then morphed into the marketing slide everyone has loved to ridicule since.
  • Everyone is overthinking this.  It was meant to be a framework not a hard and fast rule.  Probably overvalued our youth as we weren’t probably going to have 8 youth contributing.  Every club has a roster strategy so whether it is 8-8-8 or 10-10-4, it doesn’t really matte4 as it is just a general concept

  • Revisited post promotion…

    Elite
    “players any side in League One would want, could step up”
    Kayne Ramsay
    Lloyd Jones
    Josh Edwards
    Thierry Small
    Conor Coventry
    Greg Docherty
    Luke Berry
    Matt Godden

    Consistent
    “won’t let you down when called upon”
    Will Mannion
    Macauley Gillesphey
    Alex Mitchell
    Tennai Watson
    Terry Taylor
    Alex Gilbert
    Chuks Aneke
    Danny Hylton
    Gassan Ahadme

    Academy
    “young talent able to contribute”
    Ashley Maynard-Brewer
    Zach Mitchell
    Nathan Asiimwe
    Karoy Anderson
    Tyreece Campbell
    Kaheim Dixon
    Daniel Kanu
    Miles Leaburn
    So more like 8+5+3. Jones has done an incredible job with that squad. 
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