4 - players who have played football higher than League 1 in their careers 4 - players who seem on an upwards curve and may be able to play in a championship squad 8 - mediocre league 1 players or decent league 2 players worth a punt 12 - youngsters with real promise or players with real skill but injury issues
In theory we have the players, they just apparently turn into cabbages when they arrive in SE7.
Also the tactics of holding it over the heads of our midfield aren’t helping Championship calibre players like Docherty, Coventry and Allan Campbell show what they’re all about.
Does anyone seriously believe that this nonsense is being applied in practice? It's not a functioning working model and should never have seen the light of day, let alone been shown to fans to ridicule because we're not that naive. It was only presented to us to convince us they have a plan and know what they're doing. For me, seeing it achieved the opposite.
These lot don't have a clue. No chance we're replacing Jones with anyone decent.
Why are we replacing jones? And the lot that haven’t got a clue were the ones that employed jones? This post is really confusing and doesn’t make sense
The thing is, when I first heard this, I thought bullshit. You want to get as many elite players as you can and have as strong a squad as you can get. Categorising players in this way is bollocks. I am so pissed off with Charlton. And when I am pissed off with Charlton, I am pissed off with football.
Does anyone seriously believe that this nonsense is being applied in practice? It's not a functioning working model and should never have seen the light of day, let alone been shown to fans to ridicule because we're not that naive. It was only presented to us to convince us they have a plan and know what they're doing. For me, seeing it achieved the opposite.
Spot on, I completely took the piss out of it at the time. It was the most amateur presentation I'd ever seen. Like a GCSE project. Cheap slide show PowerPoint, cheap edited images, cheap talk. Whole thing stinked.
The thing is, when I first heard this, I thought bullshit. You want to get as many elite players as you can and have as strong a squad as you can get. Categorising players in this way is bollocks. I am so pissed off with Charlton. And when I am pissed off with Charlton, I am pissed off with football.
Surely what it’s really about is budgeting, and all clubs will have something in place unless maybe you’re spending like Birmingham. They probably shouldn’t have shared it with us.
I remember listening to an interview with Varney talking years after the Powell promotion squad was built. They had a budget per position, so presumably some positions such as strikers had a higher budget as those players tend to be more expensive.
I expect the idea of 8 academy players is they’ll be cheaper, therefore you can spend more on the “elite” players. The flaw is we can’t guarantee we’ll always have 8 who’ll be good enough. One year we could end like in the RD years where we were playing youngsters because we had no one else. They were forced on the manager rather than genuinely being good enough - some have developed well since, others have dropped into obscurity
I get why they’d aim for a number of “elite” players, if you spread the budget too thinly across every position you can end up with no clear first choice, a group made up of too many squad players and no star players who make the difference.
The big problem currently is those they’d pick out as elite haven’t looked anywhere near that level.
Does anyone seriously believe that this nonsense is being applied in practice? It's not a functioning working model and should never have seen the light of day, let alone been shown to fans to ridicule because we're not that naive. It was only presented to us to convince us they have a plan and know what they're doing. For me, seeing it achieved the opposite.
I always thought it was something cooked up for the fans meeting. Probably long forgotten in the corridors of power.
It's still around although the explanation given tonight was less simplistic and more financial
Tonights answer was exactly the same as his one in Sept 2024 on our website... From the website...
"Methven said: “Players who have come through your academy do not count towards your player wage consideration until they have reached, I think, 21. This, again, places a huge emphasis on your academy and what can be achieved through your academy.
“Let’s just say, for the sake of argument, that you are a club who has eight members of your first team squad being players under the age of 21 who have come through your academy, none of those players’ wages count. What that then means is that the remainder of your first team allowable squad budget can get spread much less thinly, because you are not having to spread that across 25 first squad members; you are spreading it across 17 or 18. The reason I mention those numbers is because that is the situation at Charlton.
“Charlton have eight members of their first team squad who are under the age of 21 who have come through their academy,” he continued. “One of the main reasons why my investors wanted to buy Charlton, above all other clubs in the Football League, was because they saw these changes coming and they saw that a competitive advantage would come to those clubs, like West Brom and like Charlton, who have got great academies. Ultimately, you would then have more budget to spend on fewer players in your first team than those clubs who needed to effectively recruit all of their players from the outside."
It's still around although the explanation given tonight was less simplistic and more financial
Tonights answer was exactly the same as his one in Sept 2024 on our website... From the website...
"Methven said: “Players who have come through your academy do not count towards your player wage consideration until they have reached, I think, 21. This, again, places a huge emphasis on your academy and what can be achieved through your academy.
“Let’s just say, for the sake of argument, that you are a club who has eight members of your first team squad being players under the age of 21 who have come through your academy, none of those players’ wages count. What that then means is that the remainder of your first team allowable squad budget can get spread much less thinly, because you are not having to spread that across 25 first squad members; you are spreading it across 17 or 18. The reason I mention those numbers is because that is the situation at Charlton.
“Charlton have eight members of their first team squad who are under the age of 21 who have come through their academy,” he continued. “One of the main reasons why my investors wanted to buy Charlton, above all other clubs in the Football League, was because they saw these changes coming and they saw that a competitive advantage would come to those clubs, like West Brom and like Charlton, who have got great academies. Ultimately, you would then have more budget to spend on fewer players in your first team than those clubs who needed to effectively recruit all of their players from the outside."
It's still around although the explanation given tonight was less simplistic and more financial
Tonights answer was exactly the same as his one in Sept 2024 on our website... From the website...
"Methven said: “Players who have come through your academy do not count towards your player wage consideration until they have reached, I think, 21. This, again, places a huge emphasis on your academy and what can be achieved through your academy.
“Let’s just say, for the sake of argument, that you are a club who has eight members of your first team squad being players under the age of 21 who have come through your academy, none of those players’ wages count. What that then means is that the remainder of your first team allowable squad budget can get spread much less thinly, because you are not having to spread that across 25 first squad members; you are spreading it across 17 or 18. The reason I mention those numbers is because that is the situation at Charlton.
“Charlton have eight members of their first team squad who are under the age of 21 who have come through their academy,” he continued. “One of the main reasons why my investors wanted to buy Charlton, above all other clubs in the Football League, was because they saw these changes coming and they saw that a competitive advantage would come to those clubs, like West Brom and like Charlton, who have got great academies. Ultimately, you would then have more budget to spend on fewer players in your first team than those clubs who needed to effectively recruit all of their players from the outside."
All ok IF those academy players are good enough.
Which is what I queried, and he more or less danced around.
All well and good saying the youth are the future, which I like, but if they aren't winning us matches in league 1 against weak opposition, and they aren't gathering transfer fees, then it's just words and also not going to get us promoted which should be our primary objective.
We don't have one elite player 'that any other league 1 team would want' and we don't have one youth player who we can say for sure is making the step up other than Miles imo.
We do have an abundance of the middle pack of course though, so at least they're 1 for 3 in that sense.
They, rightly, wouldn't start saying who was or wasn't in the elite group (imagine if that got back to the players) but Gavin Carter said that we don't currently have eight of them.
As said above having 16 over 21 year old players to spread your budget across means you can pay those 16 people higher wages than if it was spread across 24.
CM said we currently have too many, 27, players in the first team squad, too many out on the training pitch even and so some have to be moved out in January to allow space for others to come in.
CM said partly this was because unlike in previous years everyone is fit and he linked that to the £400k in investment in training pitches, Dr Will Abbott and better general player care meaning no soft tissue issues to which Carter "don't jinx it"
CM made the valid point on the young players that football is a game of opinions and in NJ's view those players are good enough to start and if you don't play them then they'll never learn. He named three Sunderland players I've never heard of who he said the same was said about, ie not good enough when youngsters, who are now playing at the top of the championship.
The fitness thing is a really good point but it’s only early October. That said, everyone who has had an injury seems to have come back quickly and without a breakdown. That is a definite positive
Comments
4 - players who have played football higher than League 1 in their careers
4 - players who seem on an upwards curve and may be able to play in a championship squad
8 - mediocre league 1 players or decent league 2 players worth a punt
12 - youngsters with real promise or players with real skill but injury issues
It's just the elite 8 now and we're sorted.
Lol, lol, lol 😂
Also the tactics of holding it over the heads of our midfield aren’t helping Championship calibre players like Docherty, Coventry and Allan Campbell show what they’re all about.
Elite
A Mitchell
Aneke when fit
Middle
Everyone else that wasn't from our academy
Academy
Everyone else.
I remember listening to an interview with Varney talking years after the Powell promotion squad was built. They had a budget per position, so presumably some positions such as strikers had a higher budget as those players tend to be more expensive.
I expect the idea of 8 academy players is they’ll be cheaper, therefore you can spend more on the “elite” players. The flaw is we can’t guarantee we’ll always have 8 who’ll be good enough. One year we could end like in the RD years where we were playing youngsters because we had no one else. They were forced on the manager rather than genuinely being good enough - some have developed well since, others have dropped into obscurity
I get why they’d aim for a number of “elite” players, if you spread the budget too thinly across every position you can end up with no clear first choice, a group made up of too many squad players and no star players who make the difference.
To summarise:
"Don't piss on my boots and tell me it's raining"
I think it means:
We 8 this season
We'll probably 8 next season.
Maybe we'll 8 every bloody season for the rest of our miserable f***ING lives.
Edit: New club motto for the club crest, that is.
Tonights answer was exactly the same as his one in Sept 2024 on our website... From the website...
"Methven said: “Players who have come through your academy do not count towards your player wage consideration until they have reached, I think, 21. This, again, places a huge emphasis on your academy and what can be achieved through your academy.
All well and good saying the youth are the future, which I like, but if they aren't winning us matches in league 1 against weak opposition, and they aren't gathering transfer fees, then it's just words and also not going to get us promoted which should be our primary objective.
We don't have one elite player 'that any other league 1 team would want' and we don't have one youth player who we can say for sure is making the step up other than Miles imo.
We do have an abundance of the middle pack of course though, so at least they're 1 for 3 in that sense.
As said above having 16 over 21 year old players to spread your budget across means you can pay those 16 people higher wages than if it was spread across 24.
CM said we currently have too many, 27, players in the first team squad, too many out on the training pitch even and so some have to be moved out in January to allow space for others to come in.
CM said partly this was because unlike in previous years everyone is fit and he linked that to the £400k in investment in training pitches, Dr Will Abbott and better general player care meaning no soft tissue issues to which Carter "don't jinx it"
CM made the valid point on the young players that football is a game of opinions and in NJ's view those players are good enough to start and if you don't play them then they'll never learn. He named three Sunderland players I've never heard of who he said the same was said about, ie not good enough when youngsters, who are now playing at the top of the championship.
8 "Elite"
Jones, A Mitchell, Coventry, Docherty, Berry, A.Campbell, Godden, Small
8 "Squaddies"
Ramsay, Edwards, Mannion, Ahadme, Gillesphey, Watson, Edmonds-Green, Taylor/Edun
8 "Academy Lads"
Maynard-Brewer, Z.Mitchell, Anderson, Asiimwe, Leaburn, Kanu, Dixon, T.Campbell
With Aneke, and then Potts and Hylton as wildcard extras.
Obviously that hasn't been the reality so far