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January Transfer Window (rumours + actuals)
Comments
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zzzzzzzz
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All the other Managers say loans are a good idea. I say they’re notgolfaddick said:So, lets get this straight.
Nathan Jones doesn't want us to sign exciting young talent from the likes of Palace (JRS) and Chelsea (Gallagher) because we are just improving players for other teams. And that we might only have them for half a season as they could get recalled in January.
BUT
He is happy for us to sign aging players like Hylton, or dull useless players like A. Campbell (who is a loanee - wtf ?) & Potts (on short term contracts that might not last a whole season....wtf ?).
Not just double standards but utterly bewildering & non-sensical.
Someone make it make sense.
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Think the loan market is incredibly different now to when we had Cullen and even JRS. The beginning of January saw most of the successful loans being recalled, we experienced that with Gallagher and it was a nightmare. I can understand not wanting to take the risk unless you are 100% sure they won't be recalled8
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I'll wager those signings have not blown through the whole defense single handed...ShootersHillGuru said:
All the other Managers say loans are a good idea. I say they’re notgolfaddick said:So, lets get this straight.
Nathan Jones doesn't want us to sign exciting young talent from the likes of Palace (JRS) and Chelsea (Gallagher) because we are just improving players for other teams. And that we might only have them for half a season as they could get recalled in January.
BUT
He is happy for us to sign aging players like Hylton, or dull useless players like A. Campbell (who is a loanee - wtf ?) & Potts (on short term contracts that might not last a whole season....wtf ?).
Not just double standards but utterly bewildering & non-sensical.
Someone make it make sense.6 -
Teams in the Premier League also tend to use loans as a method to get around FFP now. Owners at this level like MacAnthony at Peterborough havent hidden their distain in the past with Premier League clubs wanting outrageous loan fees for their playersfenaddick said:Think the loan market is incredibly different now to when we had Cullen and even JRS. The beginning of January saw most of the successful loans being recalled, we experienced that with Gallagher and it was a nightmare. I can understand not wanting to take the risk unless you are 100% sure they won't be recalled3 -
Some things are worth waiting for. The David Davis signing didn’t take place until 31 January, so there is hope.38
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I disagree with the current loan policy; we need all the help we can get getting out of this division. Some of the best players (if not the best) we've had on our books over the last 5 years or so have been loan players: Rak-Sakyi, Cullen, Gallagher, Bielik, Millar, and Maatsen.
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fenaddick said:Think the loan market is incredibly different now to when we had Cullen and even JRS. The beginning of January saw most of the successful loans being recalled, we experienced that with Gallagher and it was a nightmare. I can understand not wanting to take the risk unless you are 100% sure they won't be recalled
So how do you think we would have done in that Championship season if instead of bringing in Gallagher for half a season we had prioritised out youth and played Ben Dempsey in each game instead. Nothing against Ben but something tells me we wouldn't have been in with a chance of staying up in the last game of the season. So, whilst him being recalled in January was a big disappointment, it was still a successful loan.
Do you think Stockport owners, manager and fans wish they hadn't bought in Barrie for half a season?6 -
I don't like the principle of it. But anything that pisses of that knobhead MacAnthony can't be all bad!ForeverAddickted said:
Teams in the Premier League also tend to use loans as a method to get around FFP now. Owners at this level like MacAnthony at Peterborough havent hidden their distain in the past with Premier League clubs wanting outrageous loan fees for their playersfenaddick said:Think the loan market is incredibly different now to when we had Cullen and even JRS. The beginning of January saw most of the successful loans being recalled, we experienced that with Gallagher and it was a nightmare. I can understand not wanting to take the risk unless you are 100% sure they won't be recalled3 - Sponsored links:
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Yeah you're proving my point, we would have been worse off without him because we were worse off without him. Barry is slightly different as he spent 18 months thereAthletico Charlton said:fenaddick said:Think the loan market is incredibly different now to when we had Cullen and even JRS. The beginning of January saw most of the successful loans being recalled, we experienced that with Gallagher and it was a nightmare. I can understand not wanting to take the risk unless you are 100% sure they won't be recalled
So how do you think we would have done in that Championship season if instead of bringing in Gallagher for half a season we had prioritised out youth and played Ben Dempsey in each game instead. Nothing against Ben but something tells me we wouldn't have been in with a chance of staying up in the last game of the season. So, whilst him being recalled in January was a big disappointment, it was still a successful loan.
Do you think Stockport owners, manager and fans wish they hadn't bought in Barrie for half a season?1 -
Some of our worst players over recent years have been loan signingscharlton_hero said:I disagree with the current loan policy; we need all the help we can get getting out of this division. Some of the best players (if not the best) we've had on our books over the last 5 years or so have been loan players: Rak-Sakyi, Cullen, Gallagher, Bielik, and Maatsen.
Smith, Smith, Tedic, Camara, Abankwah, Fiorini, Ladapo, Penney, Kilkenny, Kane, Castillo, John, Levitt, Smyth, McGeady, Davis
Am sorry for the PTSD trauma I've brought up for people by mentioning those names... I've just put therapy sessions back weeks, after so many improvements of late too10 -
I don't think one of the Matt Smith's was that bad, we just barely played him. He's played pretty consistently at this level since.ForeverAddickted said:
Some of our worst players over recent years have been loan signingscharlton_hero said:I disagree with the current loan policy; we need all the help we can get getting out of this division. Some of the best players (if not the best) we've had on our books over the last 5 years or so have been loan players: Rak-Sakyi, Cullen, Gallagher, Bielik, and Maatsen.
Smith, Smith, Tedic, Camara, Abankwah, Fiorini, Ladapo, Penney, Kilkenny, Kane, Castillo, John, Levitt, Smyth, McGeady, Davis
Am sorry for the PTSD trauma I've brought up for people by mentioning those names... I've just put therapy sessions back weeks, after so many improvements of late too3 -
A lot of those players weren't bad though, just a bit pointless. I quite liked Paul Smyth incidentally, who's back at QPR, playing regularly in the Championship.ForeverAddickted said:
Some of our worst players over recent years have been loan signingscharlton_hero said:I disagree with the current loan policy; we need all the help we can get getting out of this division. Some of the best players (if not the best) we've had on our books over the last 5 years or so have been loan players: Rak-Sakyi, Cullen, Gallagher, Bielik, and Maatsen.
Smith, Smith, Tedic, Camara, Abankwah, Fiorini, Ladapo, Penney, Kilkenny, Kane, Castillo, John, Levitt, Smyth, McGeady, Davis
Am sorry for the PTSD trauma I've brought up for people by mentioning those names... I've just put therapy sessions back weeks, after so many improvements of late too
Part of the problem, is when we've just brought players to bulk out the squad, rather than because we had been really targeting them. This especially seems to have happened in January, loan signings for the sake of it.5 -
Don't forget Smith!ForeverAddickted said:
Some of our worst players over recent years have been loan signingscharlton_hero said:I disagree with the current loan policy; we need all the help we can get getting out of this division. Some of the best players (if not the best) we've had on our books over the last 5 years or so have been loan players: Rak-Sakyi, Cullen, Gallagher, Bielik, and Maatsen.
Smith, Smith, Tedic, Camara, Abankwah, Fiorini, Ladapo, Penney, Kilkenny, Kane, Castillo, John, Levitt, Smyth, McGeady, Davis
Am sorry for the PTSD trauma I've brought up for people by mentioning those names... I've just put therapy sessions back weeks, after so many improvements of late too3 -
We’ve had our pants pulled down with so many signings over recent years that the whole concept of new players is now barely of any interest.0
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I can only conclude that I am wrong & must thank the club for signing Ahadme for a fee rather than getting Louie Berry in on loan.
Alrighty.11 -
That's a leap and a halfgolfaddick said:I can only conclude that I am wrong & must thank the club for signing Ahadme for a fee rather than getting Louie Berry in on loan.
Alrighty.
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I don't think it was a one or the other decisiongolfaddick said:I can only conclude that I am wrong & must thank the club for signing Ahadme for a fee rather than getting Louie Berry in on loan.
Alrighty.
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Not saying I agree necessarily because I do think there’s a place for loan players but look at Wycombe. Two key players pulled out from under them mid-way through the season.Nicholas said:
That’s the same principle for signing players permanently as well though, should they be stopped too? For every Ramsey, Small and Lloyd Jones there’s Ahadme, Potts and Hylton.Callumcafc said:They weren’t opposed to loans prior to Nathan Jones coming in so it’s clearly a directive from the manager.
For every Rak-Sakyi, Gallagher or Cullen there’s a Nile John, Juan Castillo, Chem Campbell, Slobodan Tedic, Louie Watson…
The best way to do it is probably somewhere in the middle between what we did last year (too many, they couldn’t all be named in the squad) and this year where we have one and he’s turned out to be not be the player we thought we were getting.1 - Sponsored links:
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I'd say the happy ground is probably 3 , personally I'd never loan a keeper though for the exact reason of you're possibly one injury at the parent club away from a recall. But 3 solid loanees, doesn't matter if they're youngsters or not feels like the best way to build things.0
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Ah yes because Louie Barry would definitely have chosen to come here over a club he spent the last year withgolfaddick said:I can only conclude that I am wrong & must thank the club for signing Ahadme for a fee rather than getting Louie Berry in on loan.
Alrighty.9 -
Yeah very disappointing we didn’t loan 5 ft 9 Louie Barry to play as a target man.golfaddick said:I can only conclude that I am wrong & must thank the club for signing Ahadme for a fee rather than getting Louie Berry in on loan.
Alrighty.
He’d have been an alternative to Godden, and although he’s been recalled and that could have happened here too, it might have left us in a better position. If there was a mistake then that’ll be the one rather than loaning Barry instead of signing Ahadme.
We wanted that Arsenal GK on loan and it was close to being done until a La Liga club came in for him, so it’s never been the case that NJ is 100% against young PL loanees.8 -
I’d say the key to loans is having your head scout or head of recruitment having a good handle on the up and coming prospects at various clubs. Not easy but that’s their job. I’d suggest taking a PL kid on loan is probably something like 95% failure rate or at least disappointment rate. On the whole I just don’t think it works well. Grabbing at 19 year olds just because they play for Man City or Arsenal isn’t good. You have to know what you’re getting and are they better than your own U-21’s. The possible exception in my opinion is taking senior players that for whatever reason are not getting games at Championship level or are likely to be released at the end of their contract and there’s a possibility you might want to sign them.3
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I understand the frustration over the clubs “loan” position but I am sorry with the clubs basic corporate strategy there is (at one end of the argument) “little room at the Inn”.
If your corporate policy means 8 development prospects are already mandated into their 888 fiscal plan just how many “more prospects needing senior football exposure”did you want the senior squad to carry? PL & Championship clubs loan out their young talent for the express purpose of securing exposure to Senior Football.
The same largely applies to scouting non league talent. Much has been made of Kone’s progress at Wycombe but where exactly did you expect to find him development time within our existing group of Leaburn, Kanu, T. Campbell, Dixon, Casey and Mbick?
At the other end of the loan scale it is entirely a matter of money.
If a Championship or PL senior player is surplus to requirements then the issue is how much of their inflated pay cheque can their club get the loan club to pick up. It is then a matter of how many clubs are interested and the sliding fiscal calculation of the days left in the transfer window.
While there will always be interest in players A. Campbell was signed in the last week of the window. Who fiscally blinked first is open to speculation. After 8 barren weeks did it look like we were desperate to acquire his skills at any price?3 -
That is quite a literal take on the point being made, that loans can't play a part in success and signings are better. Don't think there are many that are too pleased that we have 3 1/2 years to develop Ahadme as an "asset", as our CEO put it.Scoham said:
Yeah very disappointing we didn’t loan 5 ft 9 Louie Barry to play as a target man.golfaddick said:I can only conclude that I am wrong & must thank the club for signing Ahadme for a fee rather than getting Louie Berry in on loan.
Alrighty.
He’d have been an alternative to Godden, and although he’s been recalled and that could have happened here too, it might have left us in a better position. If there was a mistake then that’ll be the one rather than loaning Barry instead of signing Ahadme.
We wanted that Arsenal GK on loan and it was close to being done until a La Liga club came in for him, so it’s never been the case that NJ is 100% against young PL loanees.
Doesn't really matter if it is a loan or a permanent signing really imo, it is all about the recruitment Vs budget. It's stupid to ignore the fact that good loans tend to be integral to teams getting promoted from league one these days. If you lose someone in January, then you have to recruit and reallocate that budget, so it again comes down to recruitment.0 -
It isn't though, at all. Signing players is always a bit of a gamble but if you manage to sign the right one you can fund multiple good signings in the future off the back of it. The problem with loans is if they're rubbish they don't help the team and they've probably blocked a younger Charlton player's development and if they're good the only team who sees the long term benefit of that is the parent club. I'm not totally opposed to loans, I think they're good to fill out a squad when the bulk of it is there but the difference between getting someone like Ramsay permanently or on loan is if he keeps improving and doing well then we can fund his replacement. When we lost JRS we lost 23 goals and assists from our side and didn't get a penny back to reinvest. When we went up we got nothing to replace Bielik but we got a 7 figure sum for Dijksteel. When we lost CBT and May we at least got fees to use on the squad. Our biggest ongoing problem is the inability to build anything longterm, we want players on decent length contracts who either do the job and keep us progressing or go for more than we paid so we can reinvest again, otherwise the cycle just continues every year. The trick is making the right permanent signings.Nicholas said:
That’s the same principle for signing players permanently as well though, should they be stopped too? For every Ramsey, Small and Lloyd Jones there’s Ahadme, Potts and Hylton.Callumcafc said:They weren’t opposed to loans prior to Nathan Jones coming in so it’s clearly a directive from the manager.
For every Rak-Sakyi, Gallagher or Cullen there’s a Nile John, Juan Castillo, Chem Campbell, Slobodan Tedic, Louie Watson…
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It’s how players are targeted - if you want a hold up striker you don’t sign a small winger/striker type.mcgrandall said:
That is quite a literal take on the point being made, that loans can't play a part in success and signings are better. Don't think there are many that are too pleased that we have 3 1/2 years to develop Ahadme as an "asset", as our CEO put it.Scoham said:
Yeah very disappointing we didn’t loan 5 ft 9 Louie Barry to play as a target man.golfaddick said:I can only conclude that I am wrong & must thank the club for signing Ahadme for a fee rather than getting Louie Berry in on loan.
Alrighty.
He’d have been an alternative to Godden, and although he’s been recalled and that could have happened here too, it might have left us in a better position. If there was a mistake then that’ll be the one rather than loaning Barry instead of signing Ahadme.
We wanted that Arsenal GK on loan and it was close to being done until a La Liga club came in for him, so it’s never been the case that NJ is 100% against young PL loanees.
Doesn't really matter if it is a loan or a permanent signing really imo, it is all about the recruitment Vs budget. It's stupid to ignore the fact that good loans tend to be integral to teams getting promoted from league one these days. If you lose someone in January, then you have to recruit and reallocate that budget, so it again comes down to recruitment.
I never said loans couldn’t or shouldn’t be used, we know the impact they can make from the various PL loanees listed in this thread. I gave the one example we know about of a PL loanee we were after. It was a shame it didn’t work out as neither Mannion or AMB stand out at this level.
I wasn’t suggesting Ahadme has been a good signing or was better than loaning alternatives.
Agree it’s about recruitment vs budget. We’ve done well recently with CBs and WBs, but signings in more attacking roles need to be much better than they have been. It seems to be the roles we’re aiming for with 1 or 2 signings this month, hopefully we can get those deals done. Get them right and we’ll be better and more well rounded team.
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Many a true word spoken in jest...🤦♂️Callumcafc said:
The club are delighted to announce the return of Danny Hylton and Dan Potts on six month contracts, keeping them in SE7 until the end of the season.Henry Irving said:“I’m pretty convinced that we will have one, if not two, in the building before the end of the window.”
Says Ronnie Moore tomorrow0 -
Appreciate this'll get laughed at, but I still think Ahadme will come eventually good23
