Climate Emergency

SporadicAddick said:

I don't flush the toilet if it's just wee.

Looking forward to other fascinating anecdotes about lifer's domestic approach to mundane household chores and ablutions.

If it’s yellow keep it mellow 

valleynick66 said:

bobmunro said:

valleynick66 said:

Chizz said:

blackpool72 said:

Chizz said:

Huskaris said:

I think we are very good at saying what other people should be doing, and not very good at doing it ourselves.

This is a really good point. And it's why I think it's better to discuss "what should governments do?", rather than "what are you going to do?" 

Yet you are the one who always asks certain posters what they would do. 

No, I am more interested in what other posters think should be done, than what they actually do.  

Make all public transport minimal cost or free and 24x 7 and tax private cars very heavily. 

Might work in big cities but not in rural communities.

I agree and that’s also  my point. You need to improve public transport as well not solely make it free. 

But even if you only did it in urban areas it would be a start. 

I've loved the idea of free public transport since I read Luxembourg implemented it in 2020:
https://luxembourg.public.lu/en/living/mobility/public-transport.html

We already have 'free' emergency services, primary/secondary education, health services, police, national defence, motorways, commercial television, libraries, etc. (of course most are ultimately paid from taxes). Why not transport?

All the disadvantages I can think of are outweighed by the advantages. Would certainly make people think twice about driving if a free alternative were available.

Jessie said:

Chippycafc said:

Great post Jessie... Queeries been educating those that won't listen for years here. 

Actually I've seen many films about homosexual people and always sympathised with them. I'm all for the legalisation of same-sex marriage. I think it's a necessary change. But anything other than that, I'm not sure... Last year I read that Biden signed an executive order that provided free transgender surgery to military members and many transgender people joined the military just for free surgeries (I think that's the natural outcome of this policy). While thousands and thousands of services members are denied of PTSD and TBI treatments because the US government or the military organisations don't have adequate financial resources and yet they have money for transgender surgeries? WTF is that? I really think it's a sign that the LGBT issue becoming ridiculous. If I go to a lady's room and there's a trans who used to be a man, I'd feel very very uncomfortable or even scared. What the left is doing is encouraging, not supporting but encouraging abnormalities and encouraging people to "use" the policies for their own purposes.

Very well said Jessie and courageous of you to speak up.

As I've been trying to tell fellow Lifer's for years, the Media and the "Establishment" lied for years and did everything they possibly could to destroy Trump and his supporters.

Why? because he couldn't be bought, and because he wanted to return the country to prosperity, greatness, and common sense, rather than continuing along the course of the ultra progressive far left, who's goal was to re invent the World as we knew it, and change literally everything, right down to inventing multiple sexes.

Within his first couple of days he has already mandated that only 2 sexes exist (crazy that such a move should ever have even been necessary) Hostages are finally starting to be released, the Stock Market is booming, Illegal Immigrants are being deported, Troops have been deployed to secure the border, World Leaders are taking notice and are now ready to negotiate on ending the wars.

The World (Excluding CL🤣) is suddenly returning to Common Sense and optimism.

It's a shame we can't discuss this further, but like you, I would like this thread to stay open as I'm finding it very educational and enlightening.

I felt that I had to afford you the courtesy of a reply and I sincerely hope that you avoid the kind of abuse that has been levelled at me over the last 8 years.

queensland_addick said:

Friend Or Defoe said:

Queeries!   

I'll have you know that I'm a proud heterosexual male and that Chippy and I are just good friends.

Dear🤣

Another thing I'm not falling for.

cafcnick1992 said:

Jessie said:

Since there's no thread on US politics, I'm going to say this in here. 

I was 100% against Trump back when Hilary was running. I couldn't believe Trump won. I thought Americans were crazy. I'd been leaning towards the left for more than 20 years without even knowing - maybe it was a result of me watching Hollywood films and TV series ever since the 90's. Anyway, it wasn't until this past election that I realized why the Dems lost so spectacularly... I read about some policies by the Dems and they were shocking. I have a childhood friend who now lives in New Jersey and she isn't pleased with the Dems either. In my opinion, the left has taken many things way too far. I know 99% of Lifers don't like Trump - I still don't like him either but you really should look more closely to see why he won the election this time. It's partly because the Democratic Party have done awfully in recent years in quite a few areas. Voters always care more about things that directly relate to their own well-being. And I suppose even if it wasn't Trump that was running, the Democratic Party would still have lost this election.

So my point is, step back and take a real look. It's impossible that over half of the population of a country is dumb.

I give you two examples of why I don't like the Dems (especially the Biden administration). One, immigration policies and DEI gone too far. Two, the ridiculously chaotic military withdrawal from Afghanistan. These are just the ones that are off the top of my head.

I had stereotype impressions of the GOP. Now I'm probably more a centrist...

I agree that the Republicans were always going to be favourite, whether Trump, DeSantis or Vivek was running.

That said, I thought Kamala Harris was a spectacularly weak candidate. A very poor public speaker in an age where the media is king.

Only a character as strong as Trump (for all his imperfections) was able to prevail over the lies and propaganda of the MSM, Social Media, Hollywood etc, and he probably wouldn't have done so without Musk buying and cleaning up Twitter, and by using alternative media and podcasts like Joe Rogan.

Trump being the genius that he is, bypassed the Legacy Media.

Someone like DeSantis wouldn't have had the same savvy or perception, and would have been taken down and taken out.

Gonna ask again in case any on here who are well informed know - has domestic use of energy seen a decline in the last 3 years because many have been ‘forced’  to because of the very real cost rises?

My curiosity is whether we show as a nation we can manage with less when  the incentive/penalty is there?

Im not suggesting it’s an acceptable solution (far from it) but curious and if that shows there may be some linked solutions - it’s sometimes said for example some households over heat their homes rather than putting on a jumper etc. and we need to encourage better behaviours. 

valleynick66 said:

Gonna ask again in case any on here who are well informed know - has domestic use of energy seen a decline in the last 3 years because many have been ‘forced’  to because of the very real cost rises?

My curiosity is whether we show as a nation we can manage with less when  the incentive/penalty is there?

Im not suggesting it’s an acceptable solution (far from it) but curious and if that shows there may be some linked solutions - it’s sometimes said for example some households over heat their homes rather than putting on a jumper etc. and we need to encourage better behaviours. 

I’d also think the government could spend on things like meaningful grants for insulation that aren’t means tested / linked to outdated council tax bands.  

valleynick66 said:

Gonna ask again in case any on here who are well informed know - has domestic use of energy seen a decline in the last 3 years because many have been ‘forced’  to because of the very real cost rises?

My curiosity is whether we show as a nation we can manage with less when  the incentive/penalty is there?

Im not suggesting it’s an acceptable solution (far from it) but curious and if that shows there may be some linked solutions - it’s sometimes said for example some households over heat their homes rather than putting on a jumper etc. and we need to encourage better behaviours. 

I’d also think the government could spend on things like meaningful grants for insulation that aren’t means tested / linked to outdated council tax bands.  

I think one of the problems with trying to update the ageing  housing stock is the cost outweighs the savings in the short term. I recently had a double glazing company pointing out my double glazing windows (fitted 20 yearsago)  were outdated and should be replaced, quoting in the region  of £12/15k. I asked how long it would be before the 'savings' would offset the capital outlay, he was unable to give me an answer. At my age why should I spend my kids inheritance on things that will not benefit me, this also applies to people who buy houses with the view to moving up the poperty ladder within 5years or so. There is no incentive from governments. It seems OK to invest in major renewable projects without addressing the problem of the existing housing stock ie energy from renewable sources is just being lost though inefficient 100year old plus house walls.        

Chizz said:

valleynick66 said:

Gonna ask again in case any on here who are well informed know - has domestic use of energy seen a decline in the last 3 years because many have been ‘forced’  to because of the very real cost rises?

My curiosity is whether we show as a nation we can manage with less when  the incentive/penalty is there?

Im not suggesting it’s an acceptable solution (far from it) but curious and if that shows there may be some linked solutions - it’s sometimes said for example some households over heat their homes rather than putting on a jumper etc. and we need to encourage better behaviours. 

I’d also think the government could spend on things like meaningful grants for insulation that aren’t means tested / linked to outdated council tax bands.  

Yes, domestic energy consumption in the UK has declined over the past three years, probably largely due to significant increases in energy prices. According to the Office for Budget Responsibility, domestic natural gas consumption fell by 10% in 2022 compared to 2019. This reduction is probably attributable to households responding to higher energy costs by curtailing their usage. 

Similarly, household electricity consumption has been on a downward trend. Data indicates that UK households consumed approximately 92 terawatt-hours of electricity in 2023, continuing a pattern of annual decline observed over the past two decades. 

These reductions in energy consumption are closely linked to rising energy prices. The Office for National Statistics reported that in January 2022, 79% of adults who experienced an increased cost of living cited higher gas and electricity bills as a contributing factor. 

In summary, the significant rise in energy costs has compelled many UK households to reduce their energy usage over the past three years. 

Thanks. So a relative positive that presumably is a step in the right direction for carbon emissions. 10% I guess is not insignificant unless it is increasing elsewhere.

valleynick66 said:

bobmunro said:

Chizz said:

valleynick66 said:

Gonna ask again in case any on here who are well informed know - has domestic use of energy seen a decline in the last 3 years because many have been ‘forced’  to because of the very real cost rises?

My curiosity is whether we show as a nation we can manage with less when  the incentive/penalty is there?

Im not suggesting it’s an acceptable solution (far from it) but curious and if that shows there may be some linked solutions - it’s sometimes said for example some households over heat their homes rather than putting on a jumper etc. and we need to encourage better behaviours. 

I’d also think the government could spend on things like meaningful grants for insulation that aren’t means tested / linked to outdated council tax bands.  

Yes, domestic energy consumption in the UK has declined over the past three years, probably largely due to significant increases in energy prices. According to the Office for Budget Responsibility, domestic natural gas consumption fell by 10% in 2022 compared to 2019. This reduction is probably attributable to households responding to higher energy costs by curtailing their usage. 

Similarly, household electricity consumption has been on a downward trend. Data indicates that UK households consumed approximately 92 terawatt-hours of electricity in 2023, continuing a pattern of annual decline observed over the past two decades. 

These reductions in energy consumption are closely linked to rising energy prices. The Office for National Statistics reported that in January 2022, 79% of adults who experienced an increased cost of living cited higher gas and electricity bills as a contributing factor. 

In summary, the significant rise in energy costs has compelled many UK households to reduce their energy usage over the past three years. 

There's little doubt that energy consumption has reduced as a result of much higher prices. I would add though that a significant reason for the bolded bit continuing a pattern of decline over the past 20 years is as a result of much higher efficiency of electrical appliances and lighting.

Of course I agree some appliances are (must be) helping too.

I read (maybe wrongly) that when @chizz said 'In summary, the significant rise in energy costs has compelled many UK households to reduce their energy usage over the past three years.' that as the OBR conclusion ad not his own?

Regardless 10% is a lot surely and must have a positive impact. Will anyone argue prices need to remain at a higher level than historically to help that be maintained?

Agree with all of that. My point was in relation to electricity consumption being on a downward curve for 20 years, not just the last three during which the cost would almost certainly have played the major part.

bobmunro said:

valleynick66 said:

bobmunro said:

Chizz said:

valleynick66 said:

Gonna ask again in case any on here who are well informed know - has domestic use of energy seen a decline in the last 3 years because many have been ‘forced’  to because of the very real cost rises?

My curiosity is whether we show as a nation we can manage with less when  the incentive/penalty is there?

Im not suggesting it’s an acceptable solution (far from it) but curious and if that shows there may be some linked solutions - it’s sometimes said for example some households over heat their homes rather than putting on a jumper etc. and we need to encourage better behaviours. 

I’d also think the government could spend on things like meaningful grants for insulation that aren’t means tested / linked to outdated council tax bands.  

Yes, domestic energy consumption in the UK has declined over the past three years, probably largely due to significant increases in energy prices. According to the Office for Budget Responsibility, domestic natural gas consumption fell by 10% in 2022 compared to 2019. This reduction is probably attributable to households responding to higher energy costs by curtailing their usage. 

Similarly, household electricity consumption has been on a downward trend. Data indicates that UK households consumed approximately 92 terawatt-hours of electricity in 2023, continuing a pattern of annual decline observed over the past two decades. 

These reductions in energy consumption are closely linked to rising energy prices. The Office for National Statistics reported that in January 2022, 79% of adults who experienced an increased cost of living cited higher gas and electricity bills as a contributing factor. 

In summary, the significant rise in energy costs has compelled many UK households to reduce their energy usage over the past three years. 

There's little doubt that energy consumption has reduced as a result of much higher prices. I would add though that a significant reason for the bolded bit continuing a pattern of decline over the past 20 years is as a result of much higher efficiency of electrical appliances and lighting.

Of course I agree some appliances are (must be) helping too.

I read (maybe wrongly) that when @chizz said 'In summary, the significant rise in energy costs has compelled many UK households to reduce their energy usage over the past three years.' that as the OBR conclusion ad not his own?

Regardless 10% is a lot surely and must have a positive impact. Will anyone argue prices need to remain at a higher level than historically to help that be maintained?

Agree with all of that. My point was in relation to electricity consumption being on a downward curve for 20 years, not just the last three during which the cost would almost certainly have played the major part.

So to develop that further are we at a point / on a trend to a point that our future and additional personal actions are now much less important (because we use more energy efficient products and have cut our heating demands) than what 'industry' does and the smaller things like reducing meat consumption (and other steps) will perhaps not have the material impact needed ? I don't suggest we can be complacent or change behaviours back.

Is the real remaining change needed only going to be able to come from industry and  renewables given what domestic changes have already been achieved? I was pleasantly surprised by the10% figure.

I still think insulation / double glazing investment etc. by government (and not individuals) is a real option to reduce further heating demands.

Dansk_Red said:

Energy pricing is based on outdated criteria, ie price is link to the price of a barrel of oil/gas, even though it comes from renewables..   

Yes I mentioned that yesterday, that needs to change.

ME14addick said:

Dansk_Red said:

Energy pricing is based on outdated criteria, ie price is link to the price of a barrel of oil/gas, even though it comes from renewables..   

Yes I mentioned that yesterday, that needs to change.

Not sure it does from an end user perspective .  We as consumers don’t really choose where it comes from we just try and grab the best deal for ourselves. 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAi4qiJNObq/?igsh=bmhzdm9uZ3pkZWkz

Great video (from September) about the UKs energy and where it comes from. 

We really are making progress in this area. We have massive wind capacity, adding in tidal (I believe there is a project in Swansea) should give us proper diversity of supply. 

GB energy will be a massive help on this front.

Dansk_Red said:

But Europe is suffering from the lack of wind during the last month, so much so that LPG tankers are being divert to Europe as the price is better than the original destination.  

Which is why the diversification point is important. No one is saying we are there yet but it's good to recognise how far we have come. Once we get a few tidal generators up and running plus a bit more geographical diversity to wind we could be well onnthe way to decarbonising the grid. 

The key thing in my opinion is cracking solid state batteries. From what I was reading about the Toyota Samsung research project (that was previously using university of Durham research phacilities but moved to China when the last govt cut research funding for anything "green") they were about 2 years away from having a version ready to bring to market and that was a year ago. So hopefully we aren't that far away.

These will be genuinely revolutionary. Far less resource intensive, not mineral dependent in the way that lithium ion batteries are, massive capacity compared to lithium ion and the potential to go much bigger. None of the safety concerns of lithium ion either. The solid state part is interesting too as in the future they will simply be built into houses or rather parts of the house will be made out of battery, or the chassis of the car will be the battery! Should be a lot cheaper too.

Once these take off a small box in a house could store enough electricity to last a couple weeks or even longer of they develop further. We could get localised grids with batteries connected. This would massively remove the dependence on electricity generation in that moment and so it needing to be sunny or windy somewhere right now becomes less of an issue. And when there is an excess we can charge the batteries and export the rest.

In my view large scale rollout of solid state batteries should be the final piece in the decarbonisation of the grid. We can get along way there in the meantime but something along those lines will be needed for that last piece