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Kayne Ramsay
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It’s odd that so many are seeking to support a cloak of opacity and confusion around injuries in the name of player welfare and privacy. I say “odd” because it seems players themselves don’t expect it, in the case of regular football related injuries. This is well illustrated by the Lloyd Jones case. He was suddenly not available and we were told that he had picked up a “minor” injury. After a couple of weeks with no further explanation a Lifer posts that he was told by Jones himself exactly what the injury was and how long he’d be out for. The Lifer has no record of irresponsible posting, so we may assume Jones didn’t ask him to keep it quiet, and is experienced enough to know it would soon be “out there”. So one of our most senior players has no problem being open about it while NJ still talks about it in a mysterious - and in my view unhelpful- way. “ the scan showed something else we weren’t looking for” can sound scary.Well, maybe the best thing would be to put the question to Dr Abbott. How would he balance the medical side and the understandable angst of supporter stakeholders to know how long a key player may be out?And actually why the hell don’t the clubs agree a common policy? After all they all have ways of finding out. You can be sure that any club who had been tracking Ramsay already knows the expected time frame for his return.5
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With respect I think you are over-thinking the situation. If the individual player is happy/willing to discuss their injury etc that is fine. That's up to them.
But it is an individual choice - not one for the club to make. The club won't disclose details but nor do they prohibit the players themselves from doing so if they so wish.
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I've had the shits since yesterday afternoon. Hoping it clears up later today.Exiled_Addick said:Can we start a thread on here where we all have to publicly declare once a week what medical conditions/injuries we are suffering from, how they happened, if they will affect our ability to post on Charlton Life, and how long before we will be fully recovered?3 -
He may have received a few "get well soon" letters, similar to the one I sent to Keith Peacock when I was a kid.Henry Irving said:But the abuse has continued regardless.
People have literally said it was no excuse for his "shit" performances before that game.
And again, being hospitalised is his business and the clubs, not ours.
Over 50 years later I still treasure the letter he responded to me with, from his hospital bed.
Those are the kinds of interactions that build life long relationships between club and supporter, rather than treating their customers like mushrooms.2 -
Exactly.thenewbie said:With respect I think you are over-thinking the situation. If the individual player is happy/willing to discuss their injury etc that is fine. That's up to them.
But it is an individual choice - not one for the club to make. The club won't disclose details but nor do they prohibit the players themselves from doing so if they so wish.
Prague, you are trying desperately to make this the fans being some how denied basic information and accusing people for "support a cloak of opacity and confusion" when it is nothing of the sort.
What you are confusing is natural curiosity about injuries, which I and most others have, with some sort of entitlement.
We know L Jones is injured. Why do we need to know what exactly is wrong? Do the club need to issue Xrays and medical reports or hold a press conference?
If LJ is happy to tell as fan then great, his body, his choice. Same with the others, some will share, others will not.10 -
We already know that Jones doesn't like to reveal too much about injuries. It could be that he is expected to be out for a long time and they don't want to bring the mood of the fanbase down further. It could be that they are quietly confident that he can make a quicker than expected recovery but don't want to get people's hopes up in case of a set back. The fact is, he'll be out for as long as he's out for, and us knowing will have no impact on that.5
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The level of entitlement is absolutely off the charts here.11
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Need Ramsay back asap, how long is he out for ?6
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It's been a good discussion of opposing views. The mudslinging has begun, so it will probably take a turn now.
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Medical condition and weather forecast?Smithy said:
I've had the shits since yesterday afternoon. Hoping it clears up later today.Exiled_Addick said:Can we start a thread on here where we all have to publicly declare once a week what medical conditions/injuries we are suffering from, how they happened, if they will affect our ability to post on Charlton Life, and how long before we will be fully recovered?1 - Sponsored links:
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None of your business, keep your nose out sunshine.bertpalmer said:Need Ramsey back asap, how long is he out for ?
They found something unexpected in a scan and we may know what it is if we ever see him again.2 -
What about Lloyd Jones ?Covered End said:
None of your business, keep your nose out sunshine.bertpalmer said:Need Ramsey back asap, how long is he out for ?
They found something unexpected in a scan and we may know what it is if we ever see him again.0 -
A week Tuesdaybertpalmer said:
What about Lloyd Jones ?Covered End said:
None of your business, keep your nose out sunshine.bertpalmer said:Need Ramsey back asap, how long is he out for ?
They found something unexpected in a scan and we may know what it is if we ever see him again.1 -
Stu_of_Kunming said:The level of entitlement is absolutely off the charts here.
What I find amazing is the amount of abuse players get at the ground or on line but suddenly, it all clock and dagger what injuries they have. As I said if it's not a mental health problem I just don't see what's the issue.
In the women's game unfortunately *ACL's happen nearly every week in the professional game and they share the prognosis so they don't suffer alone.
* I'm not saying that any player at CAFC men's side has this injury 🤷🏻♂️1 -
Kayne Ramsey ?
Who does he play for 🤔1 -
Why is a mental health issue OK to keep secret but not a physical one? Who made that judgement?soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:The level of entitlement is absolutely off the charts here.
What I find amazing is the amount of abuse players get at the ground or on line but suddenly, it all clock and dagger what injuries they have. As I said if it's not a mental health problem I just don't see what's the issue.
In the women's game unfortunately *ACL's happen nearly every week in the professional game and they share the prognosis so they don't suffer alone.
* I'm not saying that any player at CAFC has this injury 🤷🏻♂️3 -
Would you be happy with all your medical issues being in the public domain? If my boss asked that of me id tell him to fuck right off, when I’m off work, I’m off work, the reason why is no one’s business.soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:The level of entitlement is absolutely off the charts here.
What I find amazing is the amount of abuse players get at the ground or on line but suddenly, it all clock and dagger what injuries they have. As I said if it's not a mental health problem I just don't see what's the issue.
In the women's game unfortunately *ACL's happen nearly every week in the professional game and they share the prognosis so they don't suffer alone.
* I'm not saying that any player at CAFC men's side has this injury 🤷🏻♂️7 -
Stu_of_Kunming said:
Would you be happy with all your medical issues being in the public domain? If my boss asked that of me id tell him to fuck right off, when I’m off work, I’m off work, the reason why is no one’s business.soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:The level of entitlement is absolutely off the charts here.
What I find amazing is the amount of abuse players get at the ground or on line but suddenly, it all clock and dagger what injuries they have. As I said if it's not a mental health problem I just don't see what's the issue.
In the women's game unfortunately *ACL's happen nearly every week in the professional game and they share the prognosis so they don't suffer alone.
* I'm not saying that any player at CAFC men's side has this injury 🤷🏻♂️
Yes, if I was lucky enough to be a professional sportsman and fans were paying to watch me play football I would expect the fans to be told.
Since when could an employee take sick leave and not give a reason in "Normal jobs "
You wouldn't tell your boss to fuck off Stu of Kunming because he/she/they pays your wages and is entitled to know why you're not at work.
Maybe you're self employed and you don't have to in your teaching job.
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Henry Irving said:
Why is a mental health issue OK to keep secret but not a physical one? Who made that judgement?soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:The level of entitlement is absolutely off the charts here.
What I find amazing is the amount of abuse players get at the ground or on line but suddenly, it all clock and dagger what injuries they have. As I said if it's not a mental health problem I just don't see what's the issue.
In the women's game unfortunately *ACL's happen nearly every week in the professional game and they share the prognosis so they don't suffer alone.
* I'm not saying that any player at CAFC has this injury 🤷🏻♂️
You don't know the reason ?
Personally i found talking released me from my depression but if you are a performer/ sports person you may want to deal with mental health in a different way to a physical injury.
So when Cullen and Igor both dislocated their shoulders in the same match you didn't want to know what was the problem with their shoulders ? Makes no sense and sounds paranoid.
We disagree and nothing I say will make you change your mind about the lack of transparency that you prefer.
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And nothing I say will change your mind about an invasion of privacy that you demandsoapboxsam said:Henry Irving said:
Why is a mental health issue OK to keep secret but not a physical one? Who made that judgement?soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:The level of entitlement is absolutely off the charts here.
What I find amazing is the amount of abuse players get at the ground or on line but suddenly, it all clock and dagger what injuries they have. As I said if it's not a mental health problem I just don't see what's the issue.
In the women's game unfortunately *ACL's happen nearly every week in the professional game and they share the prognosis so they don't suffer alone.
* I'm not saying that any player at CAFC has this injury 🤷🏻♂️
You don't know the reason ?
Personally i found talking released me from my depression but if you are a performer/ sports person you may want to deal with mental health in a different way to a physical injury.
So when Cullen and Igor both dislocated their shoulders in the same match you didn't want to know what was the problem with their shoulders ? Makes no sense and sounds paranoid.
We disagree and nothing I say will make you change your mind about the lack of transparency that you prefer.
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Normally I’ll sling mud with the best of them, but there is something I find quite weird about the prevailing viewpoint here. Almost a parallel universe to the regular back and forth on various threads about injuries. I’m going to leave it and wait to hear what a proper professional with skin in the game has to say about it all. I recommend everyone here to join that stream Nov. 28.mendonca said:It's been a good discussion of opposing views. The mudslinging has begun, so it will probably take a turn now.
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I take it you're not an athlete who makes 100's of thousands each year, performing in front of thousands of paying customers each week, who are paying you their hard earned cash for the privilege of watching you perform?Stu_of_Kunming said:
Would you be happy with all your medical issues being in the public domain? If my boss asked that of me id tell him to fuck right off, when I’m off work, I’m off work, the reason why is no one’s business.soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:The level of entitlement is absolutely off the charts here.
What I find amazing is the amount of abuse players get at the ground or on line but suddenly, it all clock and dagger what injuries they have. As I said if it's not a mental health problem I just don't see what's the issue.
In the women's game unfortunately *ACL's happen nearly every week in the professional game and they share the prognosis so they don't suffer alone.
* I'm not saying that any player at CAFC men's side has this injury 🤷🏻♂️
There's a clear distinction between keeping a very serious personal medical condition, such as cancer, personal and private.
Then I would 100% agree with your point of view.
But a skeletal medical condition, directly related to the job you are therefore unable to undertake, should be fair game and out there for supporters to know.
It's like Pavarotti cancelling concert's months in advance, but witholding from his fans the fact that he's got a sore throat and can't sing.
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What do other clubs do? Until Jones was manager I think we always gave info out so assume this is just his thing but maybe I am wrong?
I don't really get the logic given above for why the club/NJ doesn't want to give out more info personally. It just seems a bit weird and paranoid to me.
As Prague says maybe Dr Will may give some insight but as far as I can tell when our players have been badly injured fans have only ever given them positive messages on here,.now they just kind of disappear like Potts has done.3 -
On a similar note, we shouldn't really discuss player suspensions either. A man's employment disciplinary record is his own business.2
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Disclosing injuries publicly could be detrimental in the transfer market e.g. if selling clubs know a RB is out for ages then they'll know we're desperate for cover and whack on a premium.
Likewise could be disadvantageous in respect of helping oppos plan their games v us to a degree.
Could be a reason why NJ is cagey in disclosing publicly?3 -
If had a knee ligament injury, yeah, no problem, tell anyone who wants to know. What I wouldn’t want is someone muddying the waters, which could and probably would lead to often unhelpful speculation.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Would you be happy with all your medical issues being in the public domain? If my boss asked that of me id tell him to fuck right off, when I’m off work, I’m off work, the reason why is no one’s business.soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:The level of entitlement is absolutely off the charts here.
What I find amazing is the amount of abuse players get at the ground or on line but suddenly, it all clock and dagger what injuries they have. As I said if it's not a mental health problem I just don't see what's the issue.
In the women's game unfortunately *ACL's happen nearly every week in the professional game and they share the prognosis so they don't suffer alone.
* I'm not saying that any player at CAFC men's side has this injury 🤷🏻♂️Keep it simple.0 -
I would tell my boss, of course, but I’d be damn angry if he then when and told all and sundry why I was away from work, my students and parents have no right to know my medical issues, players should have the exact same privacy if they want it.soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
Would you be happy with all your medical issues being in the public domain? If my boss asked that of me id tell him to fuck right off, when I’m off work, I’m off work, the reason why is no one’s business.soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:The level of entitlement is absolutely off the charts here.
What I find amazing is the amount of abuse players get at the ground or on line but suddenly, it all clock and dagger what injuries they have. As I said if it's not a mental health problem I just don't see what's the issue.
In the women's game unfortunately *ACL's happen nearly every week in the professional game and they share the prognosis so they don't suffer alone.
* I'm not saying that any player at CAFC men's side has this injury 🤷🏻♂️
Yes, if I was lucky enough to be a professional sportsman and fans were paying to watch me play football I would expect the fans to be told.
Since when could an employee take sick leave and not give a reason in "Normal jobs "
You wouldn't tell your boss to fuck off Stu of Kunming because he/they pays your wages and is entitled to know why you're not at work.
Maybe you're self employed and you don't have to in your teaching job.8 -
Interesting debate.
Probably more leaning towards the not knowing argument. End of the day how does a timeline on the injury speed up the process? It doesn’t. If the club or the individual want to keep it internal then so be it, it’s their call. It’s nice to know, but not important.9 -
Has the world gone mad, really!!! Invasion of privacy!!!! Maybe we should have left him on the pitch so that nobody realised he was injured?Henry Irving said:
And nothing I say will change your mind about an invasion of privacy that you demandsoapboxsam said:Henry Irving said:
Why is a mental health issue OK to keep secret but not a physical one? Who made that judgement?soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:The level of entitlement is absolutely off the charts here.
What I find amazing is the amount of abuse players get at the ground or on line but suddenly, it all clock and dagger what injuries they have. As I said if it's not a mental health problem I just don't see what's the issue.
In the women's game unfortunately *ACL's happen nearly every week in the professional game and they share the prognosis so they don't suffer alone.
* I'm not saying that any player at CAFC has this injury 🤷🏻♂️
You don't know the reason ?
Personally i found talking released me from my depression but if you are a performer/ sports person you may want to deal with mental health in a different way to a physical injury.
So when Cullen and Igor both dislocated their shoulders in the same match you didn't want to know what was the problem with their shoulders ? Makes no sense and sounds paranoid.
We disagree and nothing I say will make you change your mind about the lack of transparency that you prefer.
maybe having squad numbers and names on their shirt is also invasion of privacy? Because you wouldn’t go into the local Regus office building and see a solicitor with a name on the shirt and a squad number!!!!!
they are footballers, it’s an entertainment industry and us paying fans are the client. There is a difference between football and the real world.
if you were instructed to undertake a piece of work for a client and there was an issue, you would inform the client. The level of information provided can be short and not cover personal information.We all know Ramsay is injured. There is no harm in the club providing an update even if it’s a short statement along the lines of “Ramsay has or has not (delete as applicable) had an operation on his knee and is currently starting his rehabilitation and will hopefully be back with the first team squad on xxxxxxx6 -
to be honest I’m not bothered, he’s out injured that’s all I need to know. When he’s fit and ready to play I’m sure we’ll all notice.26
