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Kayne Ramsay
Comments
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Disagree.soapboxsam said:It's in everyone interest including the player for a statement to be put out on the Injury and possible timeline, to save Ramsey being asked the same question ad nauseam.
It's his private business whatever medical condition he has. If he wants to share it fine but a statement won't stop the questions.
Firstly, any timescale is only an estimate and secondly it sets expectations among fans which means that some than demand an inquest if he isn't back at the earliest possible date.
Thirdly, why give an advantage to other clubs over our players' availability or to clubs from whom we are seeking to source a replacement.20 -
I just noticed that Kayne has never played more than 26 games in a season. Not sure if due to injuries, but now had two in the short time he's been here.0
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He played 37-games (31-in the League) last season in all competitions... 30 for Harrogate / 7 for Charlton - But yeah that ten game gap for Harrogate in his first season with them, is confusing as TransferMarkt just says he wasnt in the squad for those absent games.Chunes said:I just noticed that Kayne has never played more than 26 games in a season. Not sure if due to injuries, but now had two in the short time he's been here.3 -
Well spotted. After further research it seems he had a horrific facial fracture.ForeverAddickted said:
He played 37-games (31-in the League) last season in all competitions... 30 for Harrogate / 7 for Charlton - But yeah that ten game gap for Harrogate in his first season with them, is confusing as TransferMarkt just says he wasnt in the squad for those absent games.Chunes said:I just noticed that Kayne has never played more than 26 games in a season. Not sure if due to injuries, but now had two in the short time he's been here.1 -
I understand the reluctance to put a firm date on something like this. The player will have set himself a target and that is what matters.0
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Loves an impact injury then!!Chunes said:
Well spotted. After further research it seems he had a horrific facial fracture.ForeverAddickted said:
He played 37-games (31-in the League) last season in all competitions... 30 for Harrogate / 7 for Charlton - But yeah that ten game gap for Harrogate in his first season with them, is confusing as TransferMarkt just says he wasnt in the squad for those absent games.Chunes said:I just noticed that Kayne has never played more than 26 games in a season. Not sure if due to injuries, but now had two in the short time he's been here.0 -
Henry Irving said:
Disagree.soapboxsam said:It's in everyone interest including the player for a statement to be put out on the Injury and possible timeline, to save Ramsey being asked the same question ad nauseam.
It's his private business whatever medical condition he has. If he wants to share it fine but a statement won't stop the questions.
Firstly, any timescale is only an estimate and secondly it sets expectations among fans which means that some than demand an inquest if he isn't back at the earliest possible date.
Thirdly, why give an advantage to other clubs over our players' availability or to clubs from whom we are seeking to source a replacement.
We are not talking about mental health and not sure if you have noticed but most other clubs tell their fan base what type of injury their player's have. Agree a time scale can be problematical but as we see with other posts, fans will speculate on what is the injury and will say X player took 3 months or 6 months so better to have a clear and concise statement from the club.
Some of Chuks Aneke issues were not passed on to the fanbase which was fair as it was outside the normal range of football injuries.
WIOTOS will be a positive for Ramsey.
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I disagree with some of these points, particularly the first. If a player suffers an injury, either in game or on the training ground, I think fans should be told the nature of the injury. I cannot see how it’s private when the injury occurs in front of the fanbase. Non football related illnesses including any mental’health issues, there I would agree.Henry Irving said:
Disagree.soapboxsam said:It's in everyone interest including the player for a statement to be put out on the Injury and possible timeline, to save Ramsey being asked the same question ad nauseam.
It's his private business whatever medical condition he has. If he wants to share it fine but a statement won't stop the questions.
Firstly, any timescale is only an estimate and secondly it sets expectations among fans which means that some than demand an inquest if he isn't back at the earliest possible date.
Thirdly, why give an advantage to other clubs over our players' availability or to clubs from whom we are seeking to source a replacement.
Timeframes, partly agree. The issue here can be managed by offering an initial range of tîme, and erring on the pessimistic.I don’t think silence is the way to stop unfounded ignorant speculation. Education, broadly, is the antidote. Thats why I am so looking forward to listening to Dr Will Abbott, special guest of CAST AGM, on-line on Nov.28.1 -
Why should fans be told? What has where the injury occurs got to do with it?PragueAddick said:
I disagree with some of these points, particularly the first. If a player suffers an injury, either in game or on the training ground, I think fans should be told the nature of the injury. I cannot see how it’s private when the injury occurs in front of the fanbase. Non football related illnesses including any mental’health issues, there I would agree.Henry Irving said:
Disagree.soapboxsam said:It's in everyone interest including the player for a statement to be put out on the Injury and possible timeline, to save Ramsey being asked the same question ad nauseam.
It's his private business whatever medical condition he has. If he wants to share it fine but a statement won't stop the questions.
Firstly, any timescale is only an estimate and secondly it sets expectations among fans which means that some than demand an inquest if he isn't back at the earliest possible date.
Thirdly, why give an advantage to other clubs over our players' availability or to clubs from whom we are seeking to source a replacement.
Timeframes, partly agree. The issue here can be managed by offering an initial range of tîme, and erring on the pessimistic.I don’t think silence is the way to stop unfounded ignorant speculation. Education, broadly, is the antidote. Thats why I am so looking forward to listening to Dr Will Abbott, special guest of CAST AGM, on-line on Nov.28.
Jones clearly doesn't like discussing injuries in any detail and certainly not giving anything but the most vague timelines.
Much as we as fans might want to know more, we have no divine right to know.
And more information does not always stop speculation. Often on CL and other forums it only increases it. EG "He's out for 8 weeks" brings the response "That means four months/why is our medical care rubbish/It's been 9 weeks now, why do they lie to us/is the player too lazy to do his rehab?/I had a similar injury and I was walking again in 3 weeks, why does it take him so long?" etc etc etc etc10 -
Some good points being raised.
We're not actually aware what injury Ramsay, Kanu, Aneke (or even TC) have. I find it slightly unusual, especially if we use Josh Edward's injury as an example - communication was clear. But if others' feel this is due to player privacy and the club looking to gain a competitive advantage by withdrawing information, that's fine. Personally, I feel that after investing on the medical side of things, they didn't expect to rack up an injury list of this magnitude come October/November.
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https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/24693177.bolton-wanderers-launch-huge-review-injury-problems/Pertinent in two ways.
1. Having announced that, no way will they be able to keep the findings secret.
2. Who on here knew that Bolton have been injury-hit to that degree? It casts doubt on the narrative (which heaven knows, I have easily believed) that our problems are unique or significantly worse than rivals. That.s why one of the questions for Will Abbott will be whether we have a data - based perspective on how bad we are with injuries and recovery, for a club at this level.@Mendonca In Asdas posed just this question some days back.2 -
One thing that informs fans that watch the action is about what action leads to what consequences.
So seeing a player fall awkwardly, or a tackle that is reckless, or a trip, fall, push or clash of heads leads me as a fan to be curious about the consequences. It is all part of being an interested spectator.0 -
I wouldn't be at all surprised if every clubs fans were not all at least partially convinced that their club was unduly and unfairly plagued by injuries when actually the numbers are probably broadly similar across the vast majority.PragueAddick said:https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/24693177.bolton-wanderers-launch-huge-review-injury-problems/Pertinent in two ways.
1. Having announced that, no way will they be able to keep the findings secret.
2. Who on here knew that Bolton have been injury-hit to that degree? It casts doubt on the narrative (which heaven knows, I have easily believed) that our problems are unique or significantly worse than rivals. That.s why one of the questions for Will Abbott will be whether we have a data - based perspective on how bad we are with injuries and recovery, for a club at this level.@Mendonca In Asdas posed just this question some days back.5 -
You'd be no good following American sports then where teams literally have to publish an injury report game by game.Henry Irving said:
Disagree.soapboxsam said:It's in everyone interest including the player for a statement to be put out on the Injury and possible timeline, to save Ramsey being asked the same question ad nauseam.
It's his private business whatever medical condition he has. If he wants to share it fine but a statement won't stop the questions.
Firstly, any timescale is only an estimate and secondly it sets expectations among fans which means that some than demand an inquest if he isn't back at the earliest possible date.
Thirdly, why give an advantage to other clubs over our players' availability or to clubs from whom we are seeking to source a replacement.
"The NFL requires that teams provide credible, accurate, and specific information about injured players to the league office, their opponents, local and national media, and the league's broadcast partners each week during the regular season and postseason”.
Same in the NBA as well.3 -
Because it's a franchise sport, and teams play fast and loose with that info anywayChris_from_Sidcup said:
You'd be no good following American sports then where teams literally have to publish an injury report game by game.Henry Irving said:
Disagree.soapboxsam said:It's in everyone interest including the player for a statement to be put out on the Injury and possible timeline, to save Ramsey being asked the same question ad nauseam.
It's his private business whatever medical condition he has. If he wants to share it fine but a statement won't stop the questions.
Firstly, any timescale is only an estimate and secondly it sets expectations among fans which means that some than demand an inquest if he isn't back at the earliest possible date.
Thirdly, why give an advantage to other clubs over our players' availability or to clubs from whom we are seeking to source a replacement.
"The NFL requires that teams provide credible, accurate, and specific information about injured players to the league office, their opponents, local and national media, and the league's broadcast partners each week during the regular season and postseason”.
Same in the NBA as well.1 -
I think, like me, most fans want to see the better players, in our mind, back from injury as soon as possible. If we are not playing well, we hope our favourite player will return soon to make results better0
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Kanu is his ankle, Ramsay obviously his knee, NJ did say what Aneke tweaked in a press conference but I can’t remember and I think TC is his calf? Honestly think body part and a vague time frame is all that can be justified as being released unless the player wants to say more. The Ahadme situation is perfect, NJ said it was his chest but there was no need for fans to know he was in hospital etcmendonca said:Some good points being raised.
We're not actually aware what injury Ramsay, Kanu, Aneke (or even TC) have. I find it slightly unusual, especially if we use Josh Edward's injury as an example - communication was clear. But if others' feel this is due to player privacy and the club looking to gain a competitive advantage by withdrawing information, that's fine. Personally, I feel that after investing on the medical side of things, they didn't expect to rack up an injury list of this magnitude come October/November.1 -
There may not have been a need. But had it been known, the level of abuse he was getting on-line might have been mollified. Louis Mendez and his podcast people were very surprised to learn he’d been in hospital.fenaddick said:
Kanu is his ankle, Ramsay obviously his knee, NJ did say what Aneke tweaked in a press conference but I can’t remember and I think TC is his calf? Honestly think body part and a vague time frame is all that can be justified as being released unless the player wants to say more. The Ahadme situation is perfect, NJ said it was his chest but there was no need for fans to know he was in hospital etcmendonca said:Some good points being raised.
We're not actually aware what injury Ramsay, Kanu, Aneke (or even TC) have. I find it slightly unusual, especially if we use Josh Edward's injury as an example - communication was clear. But if others' feel this is due to player privacy and the club looking to gain a competitive advantage by withdrawing information, that's fine. Personally, I feel that after investing on the medical side of things, they didn't expect to rack up an injury list of this magnitude come October/November.
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But the abuse has continued regardless.
People have literally said it was no excuse for his "shit" performances before that game.
And again, being hospitalised is his business and the clubs, not ours.8 -
When it's a long term injury, it would be nice to know how long a player is going to be out for. We are not going to surprise any clubs by suddenly bringing them back into the first team after 3 months out. They'll be on the bench at best.
Shorter term injuries... Probably best kept within the club.
I understand medical issues can be kept private at the player's request, but over the long term, a lack of clarity can lead to misinformation and rumours. And I question the idea that it's none of the fans business. We are the ultimate stakeholders, and will be here long after the current ones have gone.
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Can we start a thread on here where we all have to publicly declare once a week what medical conditions/injuries we are suffering from, how they happened, if they will affect our ability to post on Charlton Life, and how long before we will be fully recovered?6
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Not the best day for holding up the American way of doing things as a shining example to the rest of us.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
You'd be no good following American sports then where teams literally have to publish an injury report game by game.Henry Irving said:
Disagree.soapboxsam said:It's in everyone interest including the player for a statement to be put out on the Injury and possible timeline, to save Ramsey being asked the same question ad nauseam.
It's his private business whatever medical condition he has. If he wants to share it fine but a statement won't stop the questions.
Firstly, any timescale is only an estimate and secondly it sets expectations among fans which means that some than demand an inquest if he isn't back at the earliest possible date.
Thirdly, why give an advantage to other clubs over our players' availability or to clubs from whom we are seeking to source a replacement.
"The NFL requires that teams provide credible, accurate, and specific information about injured players to the league office, their opponents, local and national media, and the league's broadcast partners each week during the regular season and postseason”.
Same in the NBA as well.2 -
I have twelveinchcockitis AND a delusional disorder.Exiled_Addick said:Can we start a thread on here where we all have to publicly declare once a week what medical conditions/injuries we are suffering from, how they happened, if they will affect our ability to post on Charlton Life, and how long before we will be fully recovered?
Now CAFC, how fucking long are our best players going to be out for?7 -
Maybe I’m in the minority but I don’t really care about knowing when an injured player is predicted to be back - my knowing or not knowing won’t change that date. Furthermore in the case of long term injuries long term predictions are never correct anyway.7
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You're taking the wrong lesson from this. The issue isn't with the club's handling of private medical information about one of its employees, the issue is with the with the online comments made about him and the people who made them.PragueAddick said:
There may not have been a need. But had it been known, the level of abuse he was getting on-line might have been mollified. Louis Mendez and his podcast people were very surprised to learn he’d been in hospital.fenaddick said:
Kanu is his ankle, Ramsay obviously his knee, NJ did say what Aneke tweaked in a press conference but I can’t remember and I think TC is his calf? Honestly think body part and a vague time frame is all that can be justified as being released unless the player wants to say more. The Ahadme situation is perfect, NJ said it was his chest but there was no need for fans to know he was in hospital etcmendonca said:Some good points being raised.
We're not actually aware what injury Ramsay, Kanu, Aneke (or even TC) have. I find it slightly unusual, especially if we use Josh Edward's injury as an example - communication was clear. But if others' feel this is due to player privacy and the club looking to gain a competitive advantage by withdrawing information, that's fine. Personally, I feel that after investing on the medical side of things, they didn't expect to rack up an injury list of this magnitude come October/November.7 -
I’m surprised to say this about one of your posts, but I’ve read it several times and not sure what point you are making to me.Exiled_Addick said:
You're taking the wrong lesson from this. The issue isn't with the club's handling of private medical information about one of its employees, the issue is with the with the online comments made about him and the people who made them.PragueAddick said:
There may not have been a need. But had it been known, the level of abuse he was getting on-line might have been mollified. Louis Mendez and his podcast people were very surprised to learn he’d been in hospital.fenaddick said:
Kanu is his ankle, Ramsay obviously his knee, NJ did say what Aneke tweaked in a press conference but I can’t remember and I think TC is his calf? Honestly think body part and a vague time frame is all that can be justified as being released unless the player wants to say more. The Ahadme situation is perfect, NJ said it was his chest but there was no need for fans to know he was in hospital etcmendonca said:Some good points being raised.
We're not actually aware what injury Ramsay, Kanu, Aneke (or even TC) have. I find it slightly unusual, especially if we use Josh Edward's injury as an example - communication was clear. But if others' feel this is due to player privacy and the club looking to gain a competitive advantage by withdrawing information, that's fine. Personally, I feel that after investing on the medical side of things, they didn't expect to rack up an injury list of this magnitude come October/November.Anyway, overall I think more a more open approach would generally be helpful, even if it will not at a stroke silence all the more feverish and ignorant commentary. Nothing will, unfortunately. Others disagree. As in football as in wider British life, there are divergent views about the benefits of an “Open Society”. Let me turn the Ahadme question back to you. What was the benefit, and to whom, of keeping “private” the fact that he was seriously enough injured to be in hospital for several days?0 -
The point is that the online abuse shouldn’t happen whether we know the extent of an injury or not. The problem here isn’t a lack of knowledge about an injury, it’s that people love to pile on to someone online.PragueAddick said:
I’m surprised to say this about one of your posts, but I’ve read it several times and not sure what point you are making to me.Exiled_Addick said:
You're taking the wrong lesson from this. The issue isn't with the club's handling of private medical information about one of its employees, the issue is with the with the online comments made about him and the people who made them.PragueAddick said:
There may not have been a need. But had it been known, the level of abuse he was getting on-line might have been mollified. Louis Mendez and his podcast people were very surprised to learn he’d been in hospital.fenaddick said:
Kanu is his ankle, Ramsay obviously his knee, NJ did say what Aneke tweaked in a press conference but I can’t remember and I think TC is his calf? Honestly think body part and a vague time frame is all that can be justified as being released unless the player wants to say more. The Ahadme situation is perfect, NJ said it was his chest but there was no need for fans to know he was in hospital etcmendonca said:Some good points being raised.
We're not actually aware what injury Ramsay, Kanu, Aneke (or even TC) have. I find it slightly unusual, especially if we use Josh Edward's injury as an example - communication was clear. But if others' feel this is due to player privacy and the club looking to gain a competitive advantage by withdrawing information, that's fine. Personally, I feel that after investing on the medical side of things, they didn't expect to rack up an injury list of this magnitude come October/November.Anyway, overall I think more a more open approach would generally be helpful, even if it will not at a stroke silence all the more feverish and ignorant commentary. Nothing will, unfortunately. Others disagree. As in football as in wider British life, there are divergent views about the benefits of an “Open Society”. Let me turn the Ahadme question back to you. What was the benefit, and to whom, of keeping “private” the fact that he was seriously enough injured to be in hospital for several days?
The benefit of us not knowing Ahadme was in hospital was that it gives him and his family and colleagues some privacy in case something goes horribly wrong.8 -
OK, get that last para ( but not you/ Exiled Addick calling me out for a point I was not making) but why not reveal afterwards, once he was successfully discharged, I think after 3 days, that it had been that serious? There were people who started to doubt he was injured at all and that it was just a cover for NJ having to deal with his lack of form. How does that help him? Or his family?fenaddick said:
The point is that the online abuse shouldn’t happen whether we know the extent of an injury or not. The problem here isn’t a lack of knowledge about an injury, it’s that people love to pile on to someone online.PragueAddick said:
I’m surprised to say this about one of your posts, but I’ve read it several times and not sure what point you are making to me.Exiled_Addick said:
You're taking the wrong lesson from this. The issue isn't with the club's handling of private medical information about one of its employees, the issue is with the with the online comments made about him and the people who made them.PragueAddick said:
There may not have been a need. But had it been known, the level of abuse he was getting on-line might have been mollified. Louis Mendez and his podcast people were very surprised to learn he’d been in hospital.fenaddick said:
Kanu is his ankle, Ramsay obviously his knee, NJ did say what Aneke tweaked in a press conference but I can’t remember and I think TC is his calf? Honestly think body part and a vague time frame is all that can be justified as being released unless the player wants to say more. The Ahadme situation is perfect, NJ said it was his chest but there was no need for fans to know he was in hospital etcmendonca said:Some good points being raised.
We're not actually aware what injury Ramsay, Kanu, Aneke (or even TC) have. I find it slightly unusual, especially if we use Josh Edward's injury as an example - communication was clear. But if others' feel this is due to player privacy and the club looking to gain a competitive advantage by withdrawing information, that's fine. Personally, I feel that after investing on the medical side of things, they didn't expect to rack up an injury list of this magnitude come October/November.Anyway, overall I think more a more open approach would generally be helpful, even if it will not at a stroke silence all the more feverish and ignorant commentary. Nothing will, unfortunately. Others disagree. As in football as in wider British life, there are divergent views about the benefits of an “Open Society”. Let me turn the Ahadme question back to you. What was the benefit, and to whom, of keeping “private” the fact that he was seriously enough injured to be in hospital for several days?
The benefit of us not knowing Ahadme was in hospital was that it gives him and his family and colleagues some privacy in case something goes horribly wrong.
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Not sure anyone has called you out anywhere?PragueAddick said:
OK, get that last para ( but not you/ Exiled Addick calling me out for a point I was not making) but why not reveal afterwards, once he was successfully discharged, I think after 3 days, that it had been that serious? There were people who started to doubt he was injured at all and that it was just a cover for NJ having to deal with his lack of form. How does that help him? Or his family?fenaddick said:
The point is that the online abuse shouldn’t happen whether we know the extent of an injury or not. The problem here isn’t a lack of knowledge about an injury, it’s that people love to pile on to someone online.PragueAddick said:
I’m surprised to say this about one of your posts, but I’ve read it several times and not sure what point you are making to me.Exiled_Addick said:
You're taking the wrong lesson from this. The issue isn't with the club's handling of private medical information about one of its employees, the issue is with the with the online comments made about him and the people who made them.PragueAddick said:
There may not have been a need. But had it been known, the level of abuse he was getting on-line might have been mollified. Louis Mendez and his podcast people were very surprised to learn he’d been in hospital.fenaddick said:
Kanu is his ankle, Ramsay obviously his knee, NJ did say what Aneke tweaked in a press conference but I can’t remember and I think TC is his calf? Honestly think body part and a vague time frame is all that can be justified as being released unless the player wants to say more. The Ahadme situation is perfect, NJ said it was his chest but there was no need for fans to know he was in hospital etcmendonca said:Some good points being raised.
We're not actually aware what injury Ramsay, Kanu, Aneke (or even TC) have. I find it slightly unusual, especially if we use Josh Edward's injury as an example - communication was clear. But if others' feel this is due to player privacy and the club looking to gain a competitive advantage by withdrawing information, that's fine. Personally, I feel that after investing on the medical side of things, they didn't expect to rack up an injury list of this magnitude come October/November.Anyway, overall I think more a more open approach would generally be helpful, even if it will not at a stroke silence all the more feverish and ignorant commentary. Nothing will, unfortunately. Others disagree. As in football as in wider British life, there are divergent views about the benefits of an “Open Society”. Let me turn the Ahadme question back to you. What was the benefit, and to whom, of keeping “private” the fact that he was seriously enough injured to be in hospital for several days?
The benefit of us not knowing Ahadme was in hospital was that it gives him and his family and colleagues some privacy in case something goes horribly wrong.
I can see your point about talking about it after Ahadme has been released but he still only returned to training last week, I guess there’s always a chance for complications. None of this has anything to do with Kayne Ramsay though0 -
Because they shouldn't have to. Why should the club "need" to reveal that actually he was badly hurt when common decency should be enough to say actually maybe we shouldn't be speculating on these things?PragueAddick said:
OK, get that last para ( but not you/ Exiled Addick calling me out for a point I was not making) but why not reveal afterwards, once he was successfully discharged, I think after 3 days, that it had been that serious? There were people who started to doubt he was injured at all and that it was just a cover for NJ having to deal with his lack of form. How does that help him? Or his family?fenaddick said:
The point is that the online abuse shouldn’t happen whether we know the extent of an injury or not. The problem here isn’t a lack of knowledge about an injury, it’s that people love to pile on to someone online.PragueAddick said:
I’m surprised to say this about one of your posts, but I’ve read it several times and not sure what point you are making to me.Exiled_Addick said:
You're taking the wrong lesson from this. The issue isn't with the club's handling of private medical information about one of its employees, the issue is with the with the online comments made about him and the people who made them.PragueAddick said:
There may not have been a need. But had it been known, the level of abuse he was getting on-line might have been mollified. Louis Mendez and his podcast people were very surprised to learn he’d been in hospital.fenaddick said:
Kanu is his ankle, Ramsay obviously his knee, NJ did say what Aneke tweaked in a press conference but I can’t remember and I think TC is his calf? Honestly think body part and a vague time frame is all that can be justified as being released unless the player wants to say more. The Ahadme situation is perfect, NJ said it was his chest but there was no need for fans to know he was in hospital etcmendonca said:Some good points being raised.
We're not actually aware what injury Ramsay, Kanu, Aneke (or even TC) have. I find it slightly unusual, especially if we use Josh Edward's injury as an example - communication was clear. But if others' feel this is due to player privacy and the club looking to gain a competitive advantage by withdrawing information, that's fine. Personally, I feel that after investing on the medical side of things, they didn't expect to rack up an injury list of this magnitude come October/November.Anyway, overall I think more a more open approach would generally be helpful, even if it will not at a stroke silence all the more feverish and ignorant commentary. Nothing will, unfortunately. Others disagree. As in football as in wider British life, there are divergent views about the benefits of an “Open Society”. Let me turn the Ahadme question back to you. What was the benefit, and to whom, of keeping “private” the fact that he was seriously enough injured to be in hospital for several days?
The benefit of us not knowing Ahadme was in hospital was that it gives him and his family and colleagues some privacy in case something goes horribly wrong.7
