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Sport of Kings discussion thread
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Thanks mate - much appreciated - we’ve decided to appeal - hashtagjusticeforjunkie !!
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Should have been an easy decision to reverse the placings in view of the winning distance and Bowen having his stick in the wrong hand and moving towrds the rail. What have they got to do to get disqualified?1
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Are you going to appeal or do you consider that a waste of time?0
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Off to Dublin racing festival on the Saturday of the meeting shows the value of going other venues instead of Cheltenham a 3 course meal, complimentary bar for the day and a seat for the day 140 euro.
My usual group are doing the weds and Thursday at Cheltenham and then on the beer in town gold cup Friday.This year am heading to Cheltenham on the Thursday but taking our bags with us does anyone know if they have luggage storage facilities at Cheltenham a quick google suggests they have limited luggage storage faculties but has anyone ever used?1 -
If you owned a horse that had these form figures, would you be happy or frustrated?
2-2-2-2-2-4-2-2-2-2
That is the story of Mumtayaz who has just finished runner up for the ninth time in ten races. The horse did nothing wrong today with the winner being a former Gosden inmate that was running off a mark a stone lower than when last winning 18 months ago. From a punting perspective and for obvious reasons, Mumtayaz is rarely each way in price and place only on the Tote would have given you a 10p in the £ profit.0 -
When a horse has figures like that with so many seconds it get called ungenuine. Bit harsh, maybe he just comes up against better horses.0
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The Stewards have just revised the placings for the second race at Lingfield. In this instance the distance was also a nose. The horses touched twice but the intimidation was not of the duration and the FPTP did not lean into the runner up for the duration of Junkanoo's race.Addick Addict said:This is the actual Stewards Report:
An enquiry was held to consider the placings in this race following interference on the run to the line involving the winner GENTLE SLOPES, ridden by James Bowen and JUNKANOO, placed second, ridden by Caoilin Quinn. The Stewards considered the interference had not improved GENTLE SLOPES’s placing as despite the winning distance of a nose after jumping the final fence both runners had edged right-handed independently, before GENTLE SLOPES shifted marginally further right-handed slightly brushing JUNKANOO, who lost no momentum or distance. Thereafter both horses drifted independently to the line. Therefore, the Stewards ordered the placings to remain unaltered. Bowen was cautioned for careless riding as he allowed his mount to shift right-handed without timely correction, giving a light brush to JUNKANOO.
So Bowen was cautioned for, effectively, not just allowing his mount to shift right-handed but also to intimidate the other horse. The "light brush" was more than enough to stop Junkanoo from winning.
This is the point of contact with Bowen still with his whip in his incorrect hand. Note how far the horses are away from the rail:
And this is where they ended up:
Note now how close to the rail at the finish the horses are. Junkanoo's jockey had his whip on his correct hand whereas Bowen's horse actually started to drift right jumping the last when it took the line of the eventual third and he did absolutely nothing to correct the drift. At any point in that final furlong it is easy to argue that the intimidation and bump was sufficient to stop Junkanoo from winning the race.
One final note. Gentle Slope was around about 1.34 to keep the race in the Stewards. But that is based on the Stewards' reluctance to kick anything out unless murder has been committed. The cynic in me might suggest that, with off course bookies paying out on FPTP, kicking out an odds on fav and then having to pay out on another fancied horse, does not endear them to the hand that feeds them!0 -
Yep, I just watched that - I think ( and hope ) that we appealed - I’m going to speak to Gary tomorrow to see if there is an update - I’ll let you know if any progress/ responseAddick Addict said:
The Stewards have just revised the placings for the second race at Lingfield. In this instance the distance was also a nose. The horses touched twice but the intimidation was not of the duration and the FPTP did not lean into the runner up for the duration of Junkanoo's race.Addick Addict said:This is the actual Stewards Report:
An enquiry was held to consider the placings in this race following interference on the run to the line involving the winner GENTLE SLOPES, ridden by James Bowen and JUNKANOO, placed second, ridden by Caoilin Quinn. The Stewards considered the interference had not improved GENTLE SLOPES’s placing as despite the winning distance of a nose after jumping the final fence both runners had edged right-handed independently, before GENTLE SLOPES shifted marginally further right-handed slightly brushing JUNKANOO, who lost no momentum or distance. Thereafter both horses drifted independently to the line. Therefore, the Stewards ordered the placings to remain unaltered. Bowen was cautioned for careless riding as he allowed his mount to shift right-handed without timely correction, giving a light brush to JUNKANOO.
So Bowen was cautioned for, effectively, not just allowing his mount to shift right-handed but also to intimidate the other horse. The "light brush" was more than enough to stop Junkanoo from winning.
This is the point of contact with Bowen still with his whip in his incorrect hand. Note how far the horses are away from the rail:
And this is where they ended up:
Note now how close to the rail at the finish the horses are. Junkanoo's jockey had his whip on his correct hand whereas Bowen's horse actually started to drift right jumping the last when it took the line of the eventual third and he did absolutely nothing to correct the drift. At any point in that final furlong it is easy to argue that the intimidation and bump was sufficient to stop Junkanoo from winning the race.
One final note. Gentle Slope was around about 1.34 to keep the race in the Stewards. But that is based on the Stewards' reluctance to kick anything out unless murder has been committed. The cynic in me might suggest that, with off course bookies paying out on FPTP, kicking out an odds on fav and then having to pay out on another fancied horse, does not endear them to the hand that feeds them!1 -
Once again what the hell are these stewards doing?! They've just thrown out the 100/1 winner of the 1.30 Chepstow. Winner fluffs the last, an unfortunate accident and nothing to do with jockeyship, and bumps the second who has got the whole of the run to line from the back of the final hurdle to get in front and fails to do so. That's a disgraceful decision1
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As you say the interference took place a long way from the finish. Makes the Junkanoo decision even more of a joke.BertieB said:Once again what the hell are these stewards doing?! They've just thrown out the 100/1 winner of the 1.30 Chepstow. Winner fluffs the last, an unfortunate accident and nothing to do with jockeyship, and bumps the second who has got the whole of the run to line from the back of the final hurdle to get in front and fails to do so. That's a disgraceful decision1 - Sponsored links:
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I spoke to Gary yesterday and we got a written response from the BHA which supported the original stewards decision and means that if we want to carry on with the appeal we are going to have to drag back the jockeys and get some kind of legal representation. Its too expensive and probably won't change the result so we've decided to drop it - bloody annoying.Addick Addict said:
As you say the interference took place a long way from the finish. Makes the Junkanoo decision even more of a joke.BertieB said:Once again what the hell are these stewards doing?! They've just thrown out the 100/1 winner of the 1.30 Chepstow. Winner fluffs the last, an unfortunate accident and nothing to do with jockeyship, and bumps the second who has got the whole of the run to line from the back of the final hurdle to get in front and fails to do so. That's a disgraceful decision
I'm hoping he goes for the Imperial Cup off a low weight but we might run again before.2 -
Guess where Mumayaz has just finished at Lingfield? That's 10 of the last 11 races and with the favourite winning the F/C paid a fraction under 5/1Addick Addict said:If you owned a horse that had these form figures, would you be happy or frustrated?
2-2-2-2-2-4-2-2-2-2
That is the story of Mumayaz who has just finished runner up for the ninth time in ten races. The horse did nothing wrong today with the winner being a former Gosden inmate that was running off a mark a stone lower than when last winning 18 months ago. From a punting perspective and for obvious reasons, Mumtayaz is rarely each way in price and place only on the Tote would have given you a 10p in the £ profit.0 -
maybe someone is lumping on without fave/ or specific bet, that seems dodgy too me all those seconds, almost unheard offAddick Addict said:
Guess where Mumayaz has just finished at Lingfield? That's 10 of the last 11 races and with the favourite winning the F/C paid a fraction under 5/1Addick Addict said:If you owned a horse that had these form figures, would you be happy or frustrated?
2-2-2-2-2-4-2-2-2-2
That is the story of Mumayaz who has just finished runner up for the ninth time in ten races. The horse did nothing wrong today with the winner being a former Gosden inmate that was running off a mark a stone lower than when last winning 18 months ago. From a punting perspective and for obvious reasons, Mumtayaz is rarely each way in price and place only on the Tote would have given you a 10p in the £ profit.0 -
The horse never got to the favourite today but, ordinarily, it just doesn't want to go past the leader. Some horses really are just followers rather than leaders of the pack.johnnybev1987 said:
maybe someone is lumping on without fave/ or specific bet, that seems dodgy too me all those seconds, almost unheard offAddick Addict said:
Guess where Mumayaz has just finished at Lingfield? That's 10 of the last 11 races and with the favourite winning the F/C paid a fraction under 5/1Addick Addict said:If you owned a horse that had these form figures, would you be happy or frustrated?
2-2-2-2-2-4-2-2-2-2
That is the story of Mumayaz who has just finished runner up for the ninth time in ten races. The horse did nothing wrong today with the winner being a former Gosden inmate that was running off a mark a stone lower than when last winning 18 months ago. From a punting perspective and for obvious reasons, Mumtayaz is rarely each way in price and place only on the Tote would have given you a 10p in the £ profit.1 -
It is a "bookie's benefit" horse though because it typically goes off at a price that isn't going to be profitable EW but is almost certain to occupy one of the places. Take today - it went off 7/2 making it a loser and the favourite won the race at 5/4. So all EW bets taken were losers bar the win element of the winner but then no one is going to bet EW on a 5/4 shot whereas they might well back one at 7/2 EW.
However, there is an angle in and that is if you can find a horse in another race that is likely to place too and you were to combine Mumayaz with it. Depending on how regularly you do that and how successful you are, you might just find yourself a victim of restriction or even closure though!1 -
big meeting at Cheltenham tomorrow with disappointingly small fields for the 'big' races2
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Mister Coffey, running in the Doncaster 3.15, is an equalling frustrating horse. It hasn't won a race for over three years or a chase ever but travels well and gives the impression that it isn't putting it all in - six times runner up in its 11 races over the bigger obstacles.Addick Addict said:
Guess where Mumayaz has just finished at Lingfield? That's 10 of the last 11 races and with the favourite winning the F/C paid a fraction under 5/1Addick Addict said:If you owned a horse that had these form figures, would you be happy or frustrated?
2-2-2-2-2-4-2-2-2-2
That is the story of Mumayaz who has just finished runner up for the ninth time in ten races. The horse did nothing wrong today with the winner being a former Gosden inmate that was running off a mark a stone lower than when last winning 18 months ago. From a punting perspective and for obvious reasons, Mumtayaz is rarely each way in price and place only on the Tote would have given you a 10p in the £ profit.
However, there is some "meat on the bone" today and one reason why things might be different. Firstly, it is freely available at 12/1 with six places - so if MC is placed then, effectively, you will double your money. The other thing is that Nicky Henderson has decided to stick cheekpieces on for the first time - though that could go both ways as evidenced by the way Shishkin reacted to them in refusing to race.
I'm going to keep the faith and have an EW dabble, perhaps for the last time!1 -
In Chichester the weekend so going to Fontwell tomorrow.
Any fancies from anyone?0 -
Scrambled home in 6th - 12/1 wouldn't have been enough to double the initial stake as it is, of course, 1/5th of the odds but a decent profit neverthelessAddick Addict said:
Mister Coffey, running in the Doncaster 3.15, is an equalling frustrating horse. It hasn't won a race for over three years or a chase ever but travels well and gives the impression that it isn't putting it all in - six times runner up in its 11 races over the bigger obstacles.Addick Addict said:
Guess where Mumayaz has just finished at Lingfield? That's 10 of the last 11 races and with the favourite winning the F/C paid a fraction under 5/1Addick Addict said:If you owned a horse that had these form figures, would you be happy or frustrated?
2-2-2-2-2-4-2-2-2-2
That is the story of Mumayaz who has just finished runner up for the ninth time in ten races. The horse did nothing wrong today with the winner being a former Gosden inmate that was running off a mark a stone lower than when last winning 18 months ago. From a punting perspective and for obvious reasons, Mumtayaz is rarely each way in price and place only on the Tote would have given you a 10p in the £ profit.
However, there is some "meat on the bone" today and one reason why things might be different. Firstly, it is freely available at 12/1 with six places - so if MC is placed then, effectively, you will double your money. The other thing is that Nicky Henderson has decided to stick cheekpieces on for the first time - though that could go both ways as evidenced by the way Shishkin reacted to them in refusing to race.
I'm going to keep the faith and have an EW dabble, perhaps for the last time!2 -
Junkanoo tomorrow at Plumpton - 250pm. He is 1-2 and ought to win , but it’s racing so who knows !!5
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Congratulations on the win. Thought Junkanoo did it comfortably enough but I can't help thinking that he isn't the type to go and win too many races by a dozen lengths plus although I suspect Gary Moore wouldn't allow whoever was riding him to do so anyway! In any event, that's not a criticism because it is some horses way of doing things and of course that is actually great from a handicapping perspective. It's also probably why almost all of his flat runs, bar one of the times he won, have been between 72 and 84. A great dual purpose horse to own. The fact that it went off 2/9 might suggest that some heavy hitters had a few bob on it too. Hope you were one of them!alburyaddick said:Junkanoo tomorrow at Plumpton - 250pm. He is 1-2 and ought to win , but it’s racing so who knows !!
Talking about Gary Moore, probably about 40 years ago, I part owned a couple of horses, one of which was called Opening Bars. It won a few races for us, one of which was televised and featured in a Question Of Sport "what happened next?" question by virtue of the fact that a horse got onto the track and chased our horse home! Gary used to regularly ride against us, as did on at least one occasion his sister, Candy. Never knew their father and trainer, Charlie although I gather that he was quite a character. I also understand that he was a used car salesman prior to training racehorses which could not be further divorced from what Gary, Candy, Ryan, Josh, Jamie and Hayley are now known for doing.2 -
Thanks mate. I get more nervous when they are supposed to win !! - anyway, we are pretty sure he is 5 lengths better on a right handed track. We are going to try and get him to the Imperial Cup at Sandown on the Sat before the festival. The track will really suit and he'll be running off a low weight ( assuming he gets in the handicap). Will be slightly ground dependent he needs good to soft or soft.Addick Addict said:
Congratulations on the win. Thought Junkanoo did it comfortably enough but I can't help thinking that he isn't the type to go and win too many races by a dozen lengths plus although I suspect Gary Moore wouldn't allow whoever was riding him to do so anyway! In any event, that's not a criticism because it is some horses way of doing things and of course that is actually great from a handicapping perspective. It's also probably why almost all of his flat runs, bar one of the times he won, have been between 72 and 84. A great dual purpose horse to own. The fact that it went off 2/9 might suggest that some heavy hitters had a few bob on it too. Hope you were one of them!alburyaddick said:Junkanoo tomorrow at Plumpton - 250pm. He is 1-2 and ought to win , but it’s racing so who knows !!
Talking about Gary Moore, probably about 40 years ago, I part owned a couple of horses, one of which was called Opening Bars. It won a few races for us, one of which was televised and featured in a Question Of Sport "what happened next?" question by virtue of the fact that a horse got onto the track and chased our horse home! Gary used to regularly ride against us, as did on at least one occasion his sister, Candy. Never knew their father and trainer, Charlie although I gather that he was quite a character. I also understand that he was a used car salesman prior to training racehorses which could not be further divorced from what Gary, Candy, Ryan, Josh, Jamie and Hayley are now known for doing.
Nice memory about the Moore family. They are a great bunch.3 -
I smell a £100,000 Imperial Cup/Cheltenham bonus...........alburyaddick said:
Thanks mate. I get more nervous when they are supposed to win !! - anyway, we are pretty sure he is 5 lengths better on a right handed track. We are going to try and get him to the Imperial Cup at Sandown on the Sat before the festival. The track will really suit and he'll be running off a low weight ( assuming he gets in the handicap). Will be slightly ground dependent he needs good to soft or soft.Addick Addict said:
Congratulations on the win. Thought Junkanoo did it comfortably enough but I can't help thinking that he isn't the type to go and win too many races by a dozen lengths plus although I suspect Gary Moore wouldn't allow whoever was riding him to do so anyway! In any event, that's not a criticism because it is some horses way of doing things and of course that is actually great from a handicapping perspective. It's also probably why almost all of his flat runs, bar one of the times he won, have been between 72 and 84. A great dual purpose horse to own. The fact that it went off 2/9 might suggest that some heavy hitters had a few bob on it too. Hope you were one of them!alburyaddick said:Junkanoo tomorrow at Plumpton - 250pm. He is 1-2 and ought to win , but it’s racing so who knows !!
Talking about Gary Moore, probably about 40 years ago, I part owned a couple of horses, one of which was called Opening Bars. It won a few races for us, one of which was televised and featured in a Question Of Sport "what happened next?" question by virtue of the fact that a horse got onto the track and chased our horse home! Gary used to regularly ride against us, as did on at least one occasion his sister, Candy. Never knew their father and trainer, Charlie although I gather that he was quite a character. I also understand that he was a used car salesman prior to training racehorses which could not be further divorced from what Gary, Candy, Ryan, Josh, Jamie and Hayley are now known for doing.
Nice memory about the Moore family. They are a great bunch.1 -
Milton Harris .. Trainer Banned .. Milton Harris: Horse racing trainer stripped of licence after 'campaign of abuse' - BBC Sport0
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Horrible man and am really not surprised to learn that he has been banned. Once again. I had the unfortunate "pleasure" in another life to having to deal with him and he came across as an arrogant twat.Lincsaddick said:Milton Harris .. Trainer Banned .. Milton Harris: Horse racing trainer stripped of licence after 'campaign of abuse' - BBC Sport
The first ban was following his bankruptcy over an unpaid tax bill and he spent seven years out of the sport until the BHA, which had turned down two applications in the intervening period, finally agreed to re-issue his licence in 2018. He still refused to abide by those conditions and now has added bullying of a fellow trainer and harassment of a young girl to his charge sheet. He should never be allowed near the sport again. The question is, though, how much influence he will have if his former assistant, Tony Charlton, is allowed to continue to train from Harris' stables.
The other person I feel sorry for (apart from Simon Earle and the young groom in question) who may suffer from this will be his son, who is an up and coming jockey, by association. As they say, you can pick your friends but not your parents!1 -
The top end of the jumps game in Ireland has gone, monopolised by a very small number of owners and even less trainers.
At Leopardstown today, there are four Grade 1 races worth, in combined prize money, over £550,000. There are a total of just 21 runners with Willie Mullins training 14 of them including both runners in one race worth £130,000! That two runner event is a particular concern for obvious reasons.
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Money (and in the case of NH racing, which is hardly remunerative, narcissistic greed on the part of wealthy owners) has ruined all sport ........ IMHO2
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the small field problem has spread to Ireland .. it is quite ridiculous that, as you say, so few trainers and owners dominate. Even Gordon Elliott has been bemoaning his lack of quality horses, the Mullins dynasty dominatesAddick Addict said:The top end of the jumps game in Ireland has gone, monopolised by a very small number of owners and even less trainers.
At Leopardstown today, there are four Grade 1 races worth, in combined prize money, over £550,000. There are a total of just 21 runners with Willie Mullins training 14 of them including both runners in one race worth £130,000! That two runner event is a particular concern for obvious reasons.
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Needless to say Willie Mullins won all four of the Grade 1 races albeit that the favourite, Gaelic Warrior, unseated Paul Townend in the two runner affair.1
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Making it wins in all 8 grade 1 races over the weekend. Ridiculous.Addick Addict said:Needless to say Willie Mullins won all four of the Grade 1 races albeit that the favourite, Gaelic Warrior, unseated Paul Townend in the two runner affair.1
