Supposedly in the running for Cardiff City attacking midfielder Rubin Colwill on loan or possibly a permanent. In his final year of contract. Charlton, Bolton and Reading all registering interest for the Wales international.
I don't think a new centre back is really going to help that much. It can't hurt, but I think getting a functional defensive system is far more important than the individual players, as long as they're up to a certain standard. Our friends Paddy McCarthy and Simon Francis are evidence of that; are they secretly great players who we ruined or are they players who slotted in to a system that worked and were able to play beyond themselves? Who had Chris Basham and Jack O'Connell down as top level Premier League centre backs before they briefly found their system as overlapping centre backs? Our biggest issue for years has been the gaps that open up between the lines and runners arriving late in our box completely unattended. Teams can drive through the middle or in that gap between the full back and centre back and get at us, and players drift into the box unmarked to get a free shot at goal. We haven't been coherent out of possession or in transition for years and what Holden really needs to work on is why that is and drill methods of dealing with it into the players. Getting in two quality wing backs who can read the defensive side of the game is part of it, and Dabo and Edun could be those players, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the longer term plan is to have both Dobson and Taylor sitting to provide that extra bit of cover. Then we can move as a unit and if everyone has cover and numbers around them defensively then suddenly the exposure to the opportunities to have an individual error immediately leading to a goal will reduce, That will take time and we haven't seen huge evidence of it yet, but Holden needs to get it right because it will be what defines his time with us, whether he can stop the constant shipping of goals the moment something goes wrong with the ball
I think a new CB would help. If only for this reason alone - if we're planning on starting three CB's this season, we can't only have four senior CB's at the club.
But beyond that, although I completely agree that Holden needs to find better defensive organisation (and I would support a more rigid system in general), there has been ongoing lack of the basics. Steve Brown points this out every week, and it's a separate issue to shape and tactics, but down to individual decision-making and the quality of defender at our disposal.
I have a bit of an issue with the word 'decent' being used to describe our first team players.
For 'decent', I read 'mid-table L1 standard.
To get out of this league we need good/outstanding players. We've not had a CB like that since we last went up.
That is what I would describe our back line as tbh. But I would say our midfield and attack are quality for league 1 (when they are back fit).
It’s difficult in one summer to get a team that is high quality in every position, even our last promotion team had a lot of ‘decent’ players playing a lot. But they had enough quality elsewhere on the pitch which we might also have.
Do agree though that a CB should be a priority but I’m not sure it is so we will have to hope that Hector is just rusty and will get better, hope that Jones will improve and that Ness/Deji will step up
I'm not sure our attack could be described as quality when we're so lacking up top. I agree that when I look at the CMs I put ours right amongst the best in the league. The defence lets us down a little bit.
That is a good point and hopefully we do add to it, but when we have Leaburn and May starting games that is probably the best front 2 in the league
I think we are overrating Leaburn here - he has potential but he needs to be third choice for us to get out of this division this year - still need a proven striker to play up top with May
I think he's underrated if anything. We have a 6ft4, pacey and skillful young striker on our hands, who got 12 goals last year in an average league 1 team whilst still missing games through injury. His footwork and skill with the ball at his feet for someone of his height and build is remarkable. He's got good finishing ability and isn't your average big lump to shove up-front. Yet people still downplay him by saying he can't be our starting striker along with May? He'll get minimum 15 goals this year if he can stay injury free.
Well I’d be surprised if we don’t sign another first choice striker if we are serious about getting out of this division and given hectors form, probably a centre half - get the spine right, you have half a chance
Everyone’s going to bang on about signing a striker if our next signings not a striker, but we still have a major problem conceding cheap goals, and too many of them.
Be extremely surprised if we bring a Centre Back in before the window. Deji Eleware is very rated at the club and fully expect he will emerge back into the first team scene at some point this season.
Its not a numbers thing at CB though is it, its a lack of leadership and organising. I like Deji and I can see why he's rated but I would rather have an older more experienced head.
That's Hector's job surely? Jones is reasonably experienced too.
Why Hector has been so poor since pre season is a mystery.
If we lose hector fir any length of time we have a very young and fairly inexperienced crop of CB's though.
I like Hector and Thomas but it should have been Héctor only resigned, then looked for another to go alogside him and Jones. Also not sure how vocal and how much of a job he does "Marshalling the defence" doesn't seem to be telling the Iver's to move closer, push wider, pont where to cover etc.
Hector CB Jones Ness, deji, Mitchell
Is the keeper an issue as well? I'm not sure how vocal AMB is.
Oh yeah of course, but Hector is still the experienced head at the back, would expect more from him in that sense.
I like him, he's not totally without fault but for now will put the mistakes down to a lack of march sharpness.
I have a bit of an issue with the word 'decent' being used to describe our first team players.
For 'decent', I read 'mid-table L1 standard.'
To get out of this league we need good/outstanding players. We've not had a CB like that since we last went up.
I dunno, I believe most of our players are 'decent/good' and a few have outstanding qualities - but to get out of this league, what you need is consistancy. And for a few reasons, we are not seeing that yet.
It's consistant teams that get results ...... teams full of outstanding players often flatter to deceive.
For example...?
You've been watching games and players for a long time, Chunes.
You know what I mean.
I honestly don't. When I think of teams full of outstanding players, I think of Man City / Ipswich, both of whom have done well.
But Man City and Ipswich had been both bankrolled to an eyewatering degree. It would be great if we could be too, but often spending big £££££££ doesn't guarantee you success. Meanwhile back in the real world.......
Sorry, Chunes .... just a short reply again, I'm afraid. I've got to go out again in a minute.
Everyone’s going to bang on about signing a striker if our next signings not a striker, but we still have a major problem conceding cheap goals, and too many of them.
The problem is that we haven't got a striker to hold the ball up which means the ball comes straight back into our box. If we keep the ball, the opposition can't score!
Never pleasing people… we sign a someone who is decent, highly rated.
Played in the premier league, had a decent loan at the end of the season in League One, but it isn’t enough..
Holden has already proven this year we are not going to stick to the same formation, it is a signing that gives us options, from the start or from the bench to change the game.
I expect 1 free in (Dabo) 2 or 3 loans and maybe one more fee being paid if the right deal can be agreed.
For me, our biggest issue is, we don’t really have an identity of the style of play, and that falls on the manager!
Let’s see where we are at the end of October, before we start to turn!
Not sure it does. He’s not been given the tools yet so it’s hard to show an identity/style of play when you haven’t got the players you want yet. I think he’s got a clear idea of how he wants us to play but we can only see small bits of it at the moment because we don’t have enough players
Can you tell me how he wants to play? From what I have seen, it is to lump it then try and win the 2nd ball?? If that’s the case, then we have been recruiting the wrong players
That’s a very simplistic way of looking at it, and a team playing that way probably wouldn’t have had more of the ball in every game we’ve played so far. Pressing and winning the ball high up is definitely a huge part of it, and players we’ve recruited like Camara and May fit that perfectly. We’ve been the best team in the league so far at winning the ball and creating chances from pressing and winning the ball high up. A striker might have helped us convert more of these chances
We have seen a lot more longer passes over the top to May, which is another strength of his. When we have Leaburn we might see more direct passes going into him too, which will help free up May as defenders will be attracted to Leaburn’s presence. May has had to lead the line and stay central, but if you look at a lot of his Cheltenham goals he is running the channels, picking the ball up in pockets of space, cutting inside and shooting. A new striker can be that central focal point and allow May to find the spaces either side of him.
But that’s not the only way we’ve attacked, in fact Holden seems to prefer quite a varied/practical approach rather than sticking with one way of building attacks like a Ben Garner would for example. We’re high in the league numbers for slower build up attacks (would probably be higher if we hadnt lost Fraser) and also longer passes. Holden wants attacking football which we are seeing but it’s difficult when we don’t have the striker we can all see we need.
Losing Fraser’s ball-playing abilities and Leaburn’s presence up top have definitely not helped and probably made it look more like we are just looking for long balls for May to chase and trying to win the ball high up the pitch, along with trying to isolate CBT into a 1v1 situation. But isn’t that Holden just trying to get the best out of what he has been left with?
It is interesting to see the voices of the new regime start trying to shift the blame towards Holden when to the rest of us it’s obvious he hasn’t been given the tools yet
Not totally shifting blame on Holden, but we have still had enough quality on the pitch to have got better results that’s for sure. What’s the saying, bad workman blame the tools.
And no blame from the ownership, Holden is their man.
I don’t think tactically we have been right last few games, and to many errors!
For clarity I am not saying for 1 minute get rid of Holden, but can’t put all the blame on recruitment and the ownership, he has to take some responsibility. As we have had enough on the pitch to get results
He has and we have shown enough. The reason we aren’t on at least 7 points is individual errors. Which I think in this short term, you can’t really put on him. Hector’s mistake in that last game was so poor for someone of his experience.
I think individual errors are a mindset thing though and that is on Holden, especially given that’s something he talks about a lot. The Asiimwe one I can forgive because he must have mentally and physically exhausted by that point but there aren’t really any excuses for the others
A player mis-controlling the ball CANNOT be blamed on the manager, that's absolutely ridiculous! May as well start blaming the manager for the weather or if the train to the game is delayed ffs
In isolation I agree but I think there’s a pattern of individual errors causing us goals. I rate Holden and think he’s doing a good job but lapses in concentration and how we react to them is something he needs to work with the team to eliminate surely
You really don't thing Holden would have already tried?
Like us, he's seen experienced pros make schoolboy errors or just switch off standing there ballwatching. Holden must be pulling his hair out in frustration.
Of course he’s tried and feeling the same as us. On further reflection I think the back to back nature of games won’t have helped as hard to do anything on the training ground or build up any potential low confidence. Part of being a manager (in any walk of life) is to help people eradicate errors. Not saying he can’t do this or is more to blame than the players, just saying he can’t be absolved of all blame
Yeah, as you say, when games come thick and fast it's difficult to find the time inbetween to work on individual player issues. Especially with injuries and a couple of players not yet match fit, there's not even much opportunity to make too many changes.
But what's the point of looking to blame Holden? I'm sure he himself recognises that it's solutions, (which will be found in time) which are needed, rather than just looking for someone to blame.
Thomas isn’t good enough for a promotion team in this league.
Ness has a lot to prove despite a good chunk of games last season.
Jones is new and haven’t really been able to judge him yet.
Hector has the quality but I’ve not seen an outstanding performance from him since he joined.
That leaves Elerewe and Mitchell, who both have not played regularly at this level, only Deji at Bromley last season where by all accounts he was good.
We need a quality centre back who is mobile and good in the air.
As we've re-signed Thomas and Hector, and signed Jones, that's 3 CBs we've CHOSEN to sign already. Clearly Holden thought they were good enough to be regulars this season, ditto Isted.
So as it stands they have Scott Hogan, Jay Stansfield, Tyler Roberts , Lukas Jutkewicz and Sam Cosgrove on their books as out and out strikers. Does make me wonder if it will be Cosgrove if there's a signing tomorrow.
I post it because people are probably interested - he clearly has a line to some folks inside the club these days and even though his track record isn't spotless, he's got a few things right this summer.
And if it proves to be wrong, it's posted up in black and white forever more.
Comments
PS; it's ok, I shouldn't have sent the post on a hungry stomach
But beyond that, although I completely agree that Holden needs to find better defensive organisation (and I would support a more rigid system in general), there has been ongoing lack of the basics. Steve Brown points this out every week, and it's a separate issue to shape and tactics, but down to individual decision-making and the quality of defender at our disposal.
Oh yeah of course, but Hector is still the experienced head at the back, would expect more from him in that sense.
I like him, he's not totally without fault but for now will put the mistakes down to a lack of march sharpness.
Sorry, Chunes .... just a short reply again, I'm afraid. I've got to go out again in a minute.
Especially with injuries and a couple of players not yet match fit, there's not even much opportunity to make too many changes.
But what's the point of looking to blame Holden? I'm sure he himself recognises that it's solutions, (which will be found in time) which are needed, rather than just looking for someone to blame.
Thomas isn’t good enough for a promotion team in this league.
Ness has a lot to prove despite a good chunk of games last season.
Jones is new and haven’t really been able to judge him yet.
Hector has the quality but I’ve not seen an outstanding performance from him since he joined.
That leaves Elerewe and Mitchell, who both have not played regularly at this level, only Deji at Bromley last season where by all accounts he was good.
We need a quality centre back who is mobile and good in the air.
We'll see.
A broken clock is right twice a day.
I post it because people are probably interested - he clearly has a line to some folks inside the club these days and even though his track record isn't spotless, he's got a few things right this summer.
And if it proves to be wrong, it's posted up in black and white forever more.