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England Cricket 2023
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bairstow has also played many more tests and had lots more extended runs in the team than foakes, unfair to compare their averages imo. Foakes isn't even a bad batsman, bit disrespectful to say he's "just" a wicketkeeper.Covered End said:
Yes, it's ridiculous. If the averages you quote are correct Bairstow gives us an extra 10 runs per match and his drops and missed stumpings probably cost 100+.soapboxsam said:I will stand corrected but the Test average for Bairstow is 37 and Foakes is 32. So the gloves should surely come off for Jonny and he's either picked as as batter or not at all ?
I know it's not all about averages or Crawley wouldn't get picked as his average is 28.
I saw Zak score a big hundred at Canterbury ( may have been his first 🤔) and he got a duck in the 2nd innings !
This is a stronger Australian team than the one that went 1up against the Botham/Willis team and probably stronger than the Aussie team that went 1up against Michael Vaughan's side once they lost McGrath.
It's places for mates.
Foakes must keep and if you have to play your mate then leave out another batsman.0 -
the early 00's australia team is imho the best team to have ever played the game. A couple (the waughs) had retired by 05 and the rest were getting older but they were still mostly there. The only ones to get into the 05 aussie side are labuschagne and smith for clarke and katich and maybe cummins for kasprowicz. Man to man the 05 side are superiorChizz said:
I think there's light years difference between Australia's 2005 team and this one.kentaddick said:
disagree, but there's not much in it.soapboxsam said:I will stand corrected but the Test average for Bairstow is 37 and Foakes is 32. So the gloves should surely come off for Jonny and he's either picked as as batter or not at all ?
I know it's not all about averages or Crawley wouldn't get picked as his average is 28.
I saw Zak score a big hundred at Canterbury ( may have been his first 🤔) and he got a duck in the 2nd innings !
This is a stronger Australian team than the one that went 1up against the Botham/Willis team and probably stronger than the Aussie team that went 1up against Michael Vaughan's side once they lost McGrath.1 -
Combining my best of 2005 and 2023 (based on form at the time)
England
Trescothick
Strauss
Root
KP
Stokes (c)
Flintoff
Foakes
Giles
Broad
Harmison
Anderson
Tempting to play Simon Jones instead of Giles, Root and KP would then have to bowl fill in off spin. Foakes has to keep, while the 2023 Stokes is very much an occasional 6th bowler. I was tempted to play Vaughan (at 3) in place of Stokes, and push Root and KP down one place.
Australia
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Labuschagne
Smith
Green
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Starc
McGrath
The 2005 Aussie team had a relatively weak lower middle order, as Hussey wasn't in the team yet. I've picked Starc as the quick over Lee, and Green at 6 to give a 5th bowler, something they didn't have in 2005.
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Which opener would you drop? One has scored a big century recently (albeit against Ireland), and the other has a couple of 50's.blackpool72 said:Dropping Foakes and letting Bairstow keep wicket cost us over 150 runs with dropped catches and missed stumpings.
The early declaration was beyond stupid.
For the next test Foakes must be included.
Anderson is not quite match fit so I would replace him with Wood.
If we don't have a spin bowler up to the job then I would play Woakes who has a good record at Lords.
For those saying what to do with Bairstow I would let him open.
I doubt either of our present openers will average over 30 in this series so he can hardly do any worse.
This will not happen though as the selecters will stick with Bairstow for the Lords Test where his keeping will probably see us go 2 nil down.
crawleys record longer term suggests it should be him but then we have two openers who aren't conventional openers.The obvious person to drop out is stokes but that's not going to happen.Every option available results in make shift. Foakes for an opener with bairstow opening = make shift.
foakes for Ali means root is the main spinner = make shift
I agree that foakes needs to play but I haven't got an answer as to who he replaces. I dont think the selectors can answer that either, which will result in foakes not being included.0 -
Current Hazlewood, Boland OR Starc get in ahead of '05 Gillespie. Cummins would get in marginally ahead of '05 Lee (you'd want to pick both). Playing two spinners with Warne and Lyon would have been a genuinely realistic choice, with Gilchrist batting at 6 and 5 bowlers. Australia's current bowling pack is basically level with or even ahead of the '05 one. Reminder that Shaun Tait played in '05. Him, Kasprowicz and the Gillespie of '05 would have gotten nowhere NEAR the current side.kentaddick said:
the early 00's australia team is imho the best team to have ever played the game. A couple (the waughs) had retired by 05 and the rest were getting older but they were still mostly there. The only ones to get into the 05 aussie side are labuschagne and smith for clarke and katich and maybe cummins for kasprowicz. Man to man the 05 side are superiorChizz said:
I think there's light years difference between Australia's 2005 team and this one.kentaddick said:
disagree, but there's not much in it.soapboxsam said:I will stand corrected but the Test average for Bairstow is 37 and Foakes is 32. So the gloves should surely come off for Jonny and he's either picked as as batter or not at all ?
I know it's not all about averages or Crawley wouldn't get picked as his average is 28.
I saw Zak score a big hundred at Canterbury ( may have been his first 🤔) and he got a duck in the 2nd innings !
This is a stronger Australian team than the one that went 1up against the Botham/Willis team and probably stronger than the Aussie team that went 1up against Michael Vaughan's side once they lost McGrath.
Agree the '05 batting is better, of course, but not by such a wide margin. Langer vs Khawaja is a coinflip. Okay, Hayden comfortably ahead of current Warner, but Warner has been a worthy successor throughout his career. Ponting and Smith equivalent. Labuschagne probably beats Martyn even. Clarke wasn't yet the great player he was to become, so '23 Head is probably level or slightly ahead even. Of course, Gilchrist is decisively ahead of Carey, BUT Carey is still contributing and also catching/stumping everything.
I'd pick, given '05 and '23 simultaneous availability:
Khawaja
Hayden
Ponting
Smith
Labuschagne
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Lee
Lyon
McGrath
With a bench of Langer, Head, Carey, Hazlewood and Starc. And Boland in reserve for if McGrath steps on a random cricket ball. That's a team slightly tilted towards '05, but a squad tilted towards '230 -
The combined team for me would be (based on their ability at that time):Chizz said:
I think there's light years difference between Australia's 2005 team and this one.kentaddick said:
disagree, but there's not much in it.soapboxsam said:I will stand corrected but the Test average for Bairstow is 37 and Foakes is 32. So the gloves should surely come off for Jonny and he's either picked as as batter or not at all ?
I know it's not all about averages or Crawley wouldn't get picked as his average is 28.
I saw Zak score a big hundred at Canterbury ( may have been his first 🤔) and he got a duck in the 2nd innings !
This is a stronger Australian team than the one that went 1up against the Botham/Willis team and probably stronger than the Aussie team that went 1up against Michael Vaughan's side once they lost McGrath.
1. Hayden
2. Langer
3. Ponting (C)
4. Smith
5. Labuschagne
6. Green
7. Gilchrist (wk)
8. Warne
9. Cummins
10. Hazlewood
11. McGrath
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I feel really pissed off today like when England have been knocked out of a world cup on pens.4
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The absolute disrespect to Martyn - who I always saw as the glue of that Aussie batting lineup. Proper engine room batsman.Interested to see green in peoples combined 11, been a big fan of him for a while, but is he really at that level? Or is it just for balance, being the only genuine all rounder in either side?0
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Green defo there for balance. Martyn or Clarke the superior batsman at that stage of their careerskentaddick said:The absolute disrespect to Martyn - who I always saw as the glue of that Aussie batting lineup. Proper engine room batsman.Interested to see green in peoples combined 11, been a big fan of him for a while, but is he really at that level? Or is it just for balance, being the only genuine all rounder in either side?2 -
With Gilchrist you don't need Green so much imo2
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In English conditions, having only 3 seamers feels a risk unless they're physically bulletproofLeuth said:With Gilchrist you don't need Green so much imo0 -
Tell that to the 05 Aussies!killerandflash said:
In English conditions, having only 3 seamers feels a risk unless they're physically bulletproofLeuth said:With Gilchrist you don't need Green so much imo
My combined team has only 3 seamers, but it does have 2 of the best spinners in modern cricket0 -
You could go for this Aussie team with 5 bowlers, either 3 quicks and 2 spinners or 4 quicks.Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Labuschagne
Smith
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Lee/Lyon
Starc
McGrath0 -
Why do you keep putting Starc in your combined team?0
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X factor bowler, great at bombing out the tail.Leuth said:Why do you keep putting Starc in your combined team?1 -
I realized I was throwing the cat into the Pigeons with the 2005 Aussie team but they were definitely affected by the loss of McGrath after treading on the ball. Still a top team and beaten by an England side with some X factor players and even the injury prone Simon Jones managed to only miss one and a half tests. Jones couldn't bowl in the Aussie 2nd innings in the 4rd test and missed the 5th at the Oval.
Some of the present Australian team like Warner are at the backend of their career where Green could go on to be a great all rounder.
Khawaja spent longer at the crease by any Australian in a match since Bobby Simpson in the early 60's.
Since spending a couple of years out the team khawaja is looking Rock like and immutable.
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If I were to pick between the 05 and 23 England teams, I'd pick...
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Lee above him any day of the week.killerandflash said:
X factor bowler, great at bombing out the tail.Leuth said:Why do you keep putting Starc in your combined team?
I'm not sure Labuschange gets in if hes not batting 3. Not sure he has the game to bat 4 or 5 and up the tempo when needed or put pressure on a tiring attack. Does what he does very well but its number 3 or not at all for me.1 -
There was an interesting discussion on comms on sky yesterday about how Smith and Labuschange's stints in county cricket could actually have done them more harm than good in terms of preparation. Neither of them were that successful. One of the Aussies was saying that they had spoken to Marnus and he had been fiddling with his technique and stance to try and deal with the green seaming pitches and nibbling dibbly-dobbly bowlers you get in country cricket. As a result hes batting much further across his stumps than previously and has lost where his off stump is. There were graphics showing that the balls he got out to were much wider than he would ever have considered playing at in 2019.1
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cantersaddick said:
Lee above him any day of the week.killerandflash said:
X factor bowler, great at bombing out the tail.Leuth said:Why do you keep putting Starc in your combined team?
I'm not sure Labuschange gets in if hes not batting 3. Not sure he has the game to bat 4 or 5 and up the tempo when needed or put pressure on a tiring attack. Does what he does very well but its number 3 or not at all for me.
move ponting from 3 to accomodate marnus?0 - Sponsored links:
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No. Its one or the other for me. And so it has to be Punter.kentaddick said:cantersaddick said:
Lee above him any day of the week.killerandflash said:
X factor bowler, great at bombing out the tail.Leuth said:Why do you keep putting Starc in your combined team?
I'm not sure Labuschange gets in if hes not batting 3. Not sure he has the game to bat 4 or 5 and up the tempo when needed or put pressure on a tiring attack. Does what he does very well but its number 3 or not at all for me.
move ponting from 3 to accomodate marnus?0 -
Starc actually has a better average than Lee, and as a left armer gives more variety. Both good options though, alongside the more metronomic McGrath and Cummins.cantersaddick said:
Lee above him any day of the week.killerandflash said:
X factor bowler, great at bombing out the tail.Leuth said:Why do you keep putting Starc in your combined team?
I'm not sure Labuschange gets in if hes not batting 3. Not sure he has the game to bat 4 or 5 and up the tempo when needed or put pressure on a tiring attack. Does what he does very well but its number 3 or not at all for me.0 -
killerandflash said:
Starc actually has a better average than Lee, and as a left armer gives more variety. Both good options though, alongside the more metronomic McGrath and Cummins.cantersaddick said:
Lee above him any day of the week.killerandflash said:
X factor bowler, great at bombing out the tail.Leuth said:Why do you keep putting Starc in your combined team?
I'm not sure Labuschange gets in if hes not batting 3. Not sure he has the game to bat 4 or 5 and up the tempo when needed or put pressure on a tiring attack. Does what he does very well but its number 3 or not at all for me.
Lee has hit the highest speed out of all the Aussie bowlers and he seemed quite modest and likeable. Geoff Thompson not quite so modest ! is a tad behind and Mitchel Starc is 3rd fastest.
All great bowlers on their day when pitches suited their sheer pace.
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Cameron Green was only 24 this Month and the 2 Meter giant may best be judged in a decade's time if fitness allows a long career.
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You don't need a 4th seemer when you had Warne.
I assume no one is leaving him out?1 -
Just occurring to me how much current England would snap your hand off for Ashley bloody Giles even3
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Wonder if we'll see Liam Dawson at some point during this series. Seems to be the next option if you don't want to throw Rehan Ahmed in.0
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Stokes to Giles: “Ashes?”Leuth said:Just occurring to me how much current England would snap your hand off for Ashley bloody Giles even
Giles: “lol”5 -
Stokes to Underwood: "Ashes"
Derek: Definitely Ben, but only if Alan Knott is keeping !
Or
Stokes to Underwood: "Ashes"
Derek: I'm a young 78 but when my time comes I will go for a burial.
You can put what ever spin you want on this.5 -
was extremely underrated. Tied up one end, good character to have in the dressing room and a handy number 8 with the bat.Leuth said:Just occurring to me how much current England would snap your hand off for Ashley bloody Giles even0
