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Ivan Toney
Comments
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For whatever reason I ended up being signed on to a National League South team at the age of 41. I am still registered as a player and they're now in the National League. Because of this I am not allowed to bet on any football. Even though I haven't played 11-a-side football since 2005, have never played higher than the Redhill & District Sunday League, I'm 43 and, crucially, overweight enough that the idea of playing any game of football makes me feel a bit sick.DubaiCAFC said:The rules around betting are ridiculous. Professional Sports participants are pretty much banned from having any interest in matches they aren't involved in. Why shouldn't they be allowed to have a bet on Man City murdering Southampton if they wanted to.
Meanwhile, a huge proportion of the clubs in the professional league (that is sponsored by Sky Bet) have betting companies on their shirts.
Everything to do with laws around betting pisses me off. The game is stacked heavily in their favour, from the odds to the way the laws protect them from anybody who has even a glimmer of a chance of knowing more than them.6 -
One thing that i don't get with this or any footballer that bets (maybe @bobmunro could shed some light).
Toney made over 200 bets in a 4 year period. I'm going to assume (but might be wrong) that the account wasn't in his own name as that'd be too obvious. So how does something like this get found out? Would it have been the amount he was betting (as a footballer probably a lot), the type of bets etc that raised suspicions?
Would it have actually been spotted early but he was losing money so the bookie kept quiet, but then he started winning and they didn't like it so outed him?
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Maybe he was betting on the horses.
Anybody know if he made any money from his gambling?0 -
Hardly needs help. 232 bets in 4 years is only slightly more than 1 bet per week.seth plum said:
I'd say he's guilty of being an idiot more than being a gambling addict.0 -
Doesn’t that depend on the amount he gambles?
I wonder if the investigation includes something like online Poker or Roulette.0 -
Why would it? He has been found guilty of betting on football, which is prohibited by all the football authorities. What he does in terms of bets on other types of event is entirely his business.seth plum said:Doesn’t that depend on the amount he gambles?
I wonder if the investigation includes something like online Poker or Roulette.4 -
Thank you for this information.bobmunro said:
Why would it? He has been found guilty of betting on football, which is prohibited by all the football authorities. What he does in terms of bets on other types of event is entirely his business.seth plum said:Doesn’t that depend on the amount he gambles?
I wonder if the investigation includes something like online Poker or Roulette.
I imagine he won vast sums of money through gambling.0 -
Or one of his mates is a grass...Chris_from_Sidcup said:One thing that i don't get with this or any footballer that bets (maybe @bobmunro could shed some light).
Toney made over 200 bets in a 4 year period. I'm going to assume (but might be wrong) that the account wasn't in his own name as that'd be too obvious. So how does something like this get found out? Would it have been the amount he was betting (as a footballer probably a lot), the type of bets etc that raised suspicions?
Would it have actually been spotted early but he was losing money so the bookie kept quiet, but then he started winning and they didn't like it so outed him?4 -
Are footballers allowed to bet on football abroad?0
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Toney's headline grabbing punishment way out of step with FA, EPL & EFL craven subservience to the toxic parasitic gambling industry.
Toney's punishment probably fair enough even just for the level of stupidity displayed.
All advertising, sponsorship and publicity for gambling products and brands has to end. If that cuts chunks out of football's budgets, so be it, it's blood money pure and simple.2 - Sponsored links:
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There's a certain irony in the FA throwing the book at Toney for being seduced into gambling when they've allowed gambling to infiltrate football at every single level. All the pictures of Toney accompanying the news have him there with Hollywood Bets written on his shirt. Ray Winstone's stupid floating head appears at halftime along with a million other betting adverts if you're watching football on the TV, random Asian betting firms' names scroll by on the hoardings, Sky Bet sponsors the Football League. Whole generations of footballers are coming through who will have grown up having betting completely synomymous with professional football and the Premier League voting to ban betting firms from the front of shirts won't change anything. Football allows gambling to be front and centre of everything because gambling pays them a lot of money for the privilege. Toney gambled because gambling stood to make him a load of money. I get why he's been banned but an FA that allows the proliferation of betting companies because they're entirely driven by money banning a player who engges with betting companies because he is driven by that same money is a level of hypocrisy that's quite bad even for football. No doubt there will be a token review after this where the FA discuss gambling, decide that Sky Bet can't sponsor the EFL anymore and then still allow gambling companies to beam their advertising diretly into children's brains in countless other areas.
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They are not permitted to bet on any football match taking place anywhere in the world.jacob_CAFC said:Are footballers allowed to bet on football abroad?1 -
What if you’re a registered Sunday League footballer?
Or referee?2 -
Step 5 and Belowseth plum said:What if you’re a registered Sunday League footballer?
Or referee?
The betting rules are different for those Participants involved solely with a club at Step 5 of the National League System and below and for any Match Official, referee, coach or referee assessor, operating at Level 4 or below.
No Participant can bet on a match or competition in which they are involved that season, or which they can influence, or any other football-related matter concerning the league that they play in.
Participants are also prohibited from using or passing inside information for betting.
These are the only Participants who will not be subject to the worldwide ban.
All here: https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/policies/betting-rules
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Thank you for this information.bobmunro said:
Step 5 and Belowseth plum said:What if you’re a registered Sunday League footballer?
Or referee?
The betting rules are different for those Participants involved solely with a club at Step 5 of the National League System and below and for any Match Official, referee, coach or referee assessor, operating at Level 4 or below.
No Participant can bet on a match or competition in which they are involved that season, or which they can influence, or any other football-related matter concerning the league that they play in.
Participants are also prohibited from using or passing inside information for betting.
These are the only Participants who will not be subject to the worldwide ban.
All here: https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/policies/betting-rules0 -
That's even more bizarre really. So a player at Erith & Belvedere (step 5) would've been able to have a bet this season, but because they won the league and will now be step 4 it means next season he won't be allowed to. What's the difference? Why is step 5 ok but 4 is forbidden?bobmunro said:
Step 5 and Belowseth plum said:What if you’re a registered Sunday League footballer?
Or referee?
The betting rules are different for those Participants involved solely with a club at Step 5 of the National League System and below and for any Match Official, referee, coach or referee assessor, operating at Level 4 or below.
No Participant can bet on a match or competition in which they are involved that season, or which they can influence, or any other football-related matter concerning the league that they play in.
Participants are also prohibited from using or passing inside information for betting.
These are the only Participants who will not be subject to the worldwide ban.
All here: https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/policies/betting-rules0 -
I'd assume the higher up the pyramid they are, the more chance they'd have of knowing league players who could influence games (as far fetched as that sounds)Chris_from_Sidcup said:
That's even more bizarre really. So a player at Erith & Belvedere (step 5) would've been able to have a bet this season, but because they won the league and will now be step 4 it means next season he won't be allowed to. What's the difference? Why is step 5 ok but 4 is forbidden?bobmunro said:
Step 5 and Belowseth plum said:What if you’re a registered Sunday League footballer?
Or referee?
The betting rules are different for those Participants involved solely with a club at Step 5 of the National League System and below and for any Match Official, referee, coach or referee assessor, operating at Level 4 or below.
No Participant can bet on a match or competition in which they are involved that season, or which they can influence, or any other football-related matter concerning the league that they play in.
Participants are also prohibited from using or passing inside information for betting.
These are the only Participants who will not be subject to the worldwide ban.
All here: https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/policies/betting-rules0 -
Don't think its far fetched at all. Look at Toney who has played everywhere from League 2 to the premier league. Chances are he played with players on the way down who are in non-league now.DaveMehmet said:
I'd assume the higher up the pyramid they are, the more chance they'd have of knowing league players who could influence games (as far fetched as that sounds)Chris_from_Sidcup said:
That's even more bizarre really. So a player at Erith & Belvedere (step 5) would've been able to have a bet this season, but because they won the league and will now be step 4 it means next season he won't be allowed to. What's the difference? Why is step 5 ok but 4 is forbidden?bobmunro said:
Step 5 and Belowseth plum said:What if you’re a registered Sunday League footballer?
Or referee?
The betting rules are different for those Participants involved solely with a club at Step 5 of the National League System and below and for any Match Official, referee, coach or referee assessor, operating at Level 4 or below.
No Participant can bet on a match or competition in which they are involved that season, or which they can influence, or any other football-related matter concerning the league that they play in.
Participants are also prohibited from using or passing inside information for betting.
These are the only Participants who will not be subject to the worldwide ban.
All here: https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/policies/betting-rules0 -
Sadly for him, history tells us that his greatest comeuppance from what looks like a gambling addiction is probably post-retirement bankruptcy. It’s a bloody curse for these wealthy ex-Premiership footballer that we’ve seen too many times.Addick Addict said:Toney and all PFA members will have been warned countless number of times of the consequences. We are not talking about one or two slips. There were 232 betting breaches!!!0 - Sponsored links:
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It’s an ill wind and all that.meldrew66 said:
Sadly for him, history tells us that his greatest comeuppance from what looks like a gambling addiction is probably post-retirement bankruptcy. It’s a bloody curse for these wealthy ex-Premiership footballer that we’ve seen too many times.Addick Addict said:Toney and all PFA members will have been warned countless number of times of the consequences. We are not talking about one or two slips. There were 232 betting breaches!!!
Ex rich footballers will impoverish themselves and like as not drag their families into destitution, but the up side is it enriches gambling companies who generously provide the money draining service.0 -
John Terry was banned for four matches for racism.
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seth plum said:
It’s an ill wind and all that.meldrew66 said:
Sadly for him, history tells us that his greatest comeuppance from what looks like a gambling addiction is probably post-retirement bankruptcy. It’s a bloody curse for these wealthy ex-Premiership footballer that we’ve seen too many times.Addick Addict said:Toney and all PFA members will have been warned countless number of times of the consequences. We are not talking about one or two slips. There were 232 betting breaches!!!
Ex rich footballers will impoverish themselves and like as not drag their families into destitution, but the up side is it enriches gambling companies who generously provide the money draining service.So the problem with ex rich footballers who impoverish themselves and their families is entirely due to gambling? What's your evidence for that, Seth? That may well be the reason for some, but it is not the norm.The real issue is giving an 18 year old a £10,000 a week contract, increasing to multiples of that as they develop and are sold on who has had, more than likely, a very poor education and spends the money on big houses and fast cars, not having a reasoned thought as to what he will do when his fairly short career ends and leaves him with 40 odd years of retirement when his income drops from tens of thousands a week to pretty much zero. Nowhere near enough is done with footballers in terms of financial education and planning for that long retirement.There are many ex-footballers who are very savvy with their money and invest wisely to provide a very good standard of living for themselves and their families post career. But there are some that don't. I know both types.0 -
Yes.
Didn’t the great Clive Mendonca exercise his freedom of choice and lose it all, yet Robbie Fowler put his money into property and got rich?
I imagine solicitors and estate agents benefit from the Fowler savvy, and gambling companies benefitted from the freedom of choice exercised by Mendonca.
Did I say entirely?0 -
You said: Ex rich footballers will impoverish themselves and like as not drag their families into destitution but the up side is it enriches gambling companies who generously provide the money draining service.seth plum said:Yes.
Didn’t the great Clive Mendonca exercise his freedom of choice and lose it all, yet Robbie Fowler put his money into property and got rich?
I imagine solicitors and estate agents benefit from the Fowler savvy, and gambling companies benefitted from the freedom of choice exercised by Mendonca.
Did I say entirely?
You didn't say: Some Ex rich footballers may impoverish themselves by gambling and like as not drag their families into destitution but the up side is it enriches gambling companies who generously provide the money draining service.You are a linguist and know exactly what you are saying. I am a linguist and can smell it a mile off.I stand by my claim that the main issue with ex-footballers getting into financial difficulty is a lack of financial literacy.
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I apologise for not modifying what I said with the use of the word ‘some’.
Just as I didn’t say impoverishment was entirely down to the gambling companies.0 -
Male footballers have £6420 paid into their pension pot annually by the PFA
Obviously they can contribute more themselves0 -
I read that a number of PL clubs are wanting ti sign him for an amount that Brentford could not refuse. So they are probally looking to the future without him anyway.
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Good comparison. I’m sure Mendonca and Fowler were on the same sort of salary.seth plum said:Yes.
Didn’t the great Clive Mendonca exercise his freedom of choice and lose it all, yet Robbie Fowler put his money into property and got rich?
I imagine solicitors and estate agents benefit from the Fowler savvy, and gambling companies benefitted from the freedom of choice exercised by Mendonca.
Did I say entirely?0 -
Brentford 'happy' to keep him .. is that on full pay til January ? .. England career done I should think .. foolish young man0
