Ivan Toney

Swisdom said:

cantersaddick said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Addick Addict said:

Gone are the days when players were easily identified in bookies gambling their life away or by their distinctive voice on the phone. Instead the integrity departments at bookmakers recognise who is behind the bets even if the accounts in question aren't in the player's name by way of betting patterns, accounts linked to each other, IP addresses etc etc. The FA can demand phone records and itemised bank statements showing monies being transferred in and out that will link the footballer to the person placing the bets and because of the telephone numbers that some footballers bet in, those transactions do tend to stand out especially when they are so regular in nature. 

I very much doubt that Toney was so stupid to bet on games he was involved in but the rules cover any football match or competition, wherever it is played in the world. You cannot bet on any global football market at any level, even on aspects that aren't related to matches for example the next manager of a club. What makes the whole situation so ridiculous is that he is permitted to bet on any other sport without punishment and the fact that the FA have 232 instances of him betting on football suggests that he must have been doing so too. But those other sports weren't enough. 

As I mentioned a few days ago on the England squad thread, it might well have cost him a World Cup place but, given these are historic bets, I doubt that Toney thought he would get that close when placing them. He might have been the unlucky one and that others are doing it too. I wouldn't mind betting, though, that some of those will now think twice about carrying on especially if the FA ends up throwing the book at him by way of a lengthy ban. 

I've always thought this is quite crazy.

If Toney wanted to bet on a random Moldovan or Latvian game, or even Welling United, it's mad that he isn't allowed.

Football circles are small and Toney as an example has played at a number of levels and will have met/ played with/ against/ been mates with players at all those levels. Some of whom will have dropped down and been playing for/against your example of welling. Others (see Adam Matthews as an example) will go off and play in obscure foreign leagues. Even if its nothing as malicious as match fixing, theoretically a player could catch up with an old mate playing at any level of football and he could mention that they have a load of players out for their match and are gonna struggle....

But the bookies, who pay for information, are permitted to offer odds on things they know won’t happen
seems a little unfair imo

bobmunro said:

Swisdom said:

cantersaddick said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Addick Addict said:

Gone are the days when players were easily identified in bookies gambling their life away or by their distinctive voice on the phone. Instead the integrity departments at bookmakers recognise who is behind the bets even if the accounts in question aren't in the player's name by way of betting patterns, accounts linked to each other, IP addresses etc etc. The FA can demand phone records and itemised bank statements showing monies being transferred in and out that will link the footballer to the person placing the bets and because of the telephone numbers that some footballers bet in, those transactions do tend to stand out especially when they are so regular in nature. 

I very much doubt that Toney was so stupid to bet on games he was involved in but the rules cover any football match or competition, wherever it is played in the world. You cannot bet on any global football market at any level, even on aspects that aren't related to matches for example the next manager of a club. What makes the whole situation so ridiculous is that he is permitted to bet on any other sport without punishment and the fact that the FA have 232 instances of him betting on football suggests that he must have been doing so too. But those other sports weren't enough. 

As I mentioned a few days ago on the England squad thread, it might well have cost him a World Cup place but, given these are historic bets, I doubt that Toney thought he would get that close when placing them. He might have been the unlucky one and that others are doing it too. I wouldn't mind betting, though, that some of those will now think twice about carrying on especially if the FA ends up throwing the book at him by way of a lengthy ban. 

I've always thought this is quite crazy.

If Toney wanted to bet on a random Moldovan or Latvian game, or even Welling United, it's mad that he isn't allowed.

Football circles are small and Toney as an example has played at a number of levels and will have met/ played with/ against/ been mates with players at all those levels. Some of whom will have dropped down and been playing for/against your example of welling. Others (see Adam Matthews as an example) will go off and play in obscure foreign leagues. Even if its nothing as malicious as match fixing, theoretically a player could catch up with an old mate playing at any level of football and he could mention that they have a load of players out for their match and are gonna struggle....

But the bookies, who pay for information, are permitted to offer odds on things they know won’t happen
seems a little unfair imo

I take it this is based on your extensive experience in the betting industry?

Swisdom said:

bobmunro said:

Swisdom said:

cantersaddick said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Addick Addict said:

Gone are the days when players were easily identified in bookies gambling their life away or by their distinctive voice on the phone. Instead the integrity departments at bookmakers recognise who is behind the bets even if the accounts in question aren't in the player's name by way of betting patterns, accounts linked to each other, IP addresses etc etc. The FA can demand phone records and itemised bank statements showing monies being transferred in and out that will link the footballer to the person placing the bets and because of the telephone numbers that some footballers bet in, those transactions do tend to stand out especially when they are so regular in nature. 

I very much doubt that Toney was so stupid to bet on games he was involved in but the rules cover any football match or competition, wherever it is played in the world. You cannot bet on any global football market at any level, even on aspects that aren't related to matches for example the next manager of a club. What makes the whole situation so ridiculous is that he is permitted to bet on any other sport without punishment and the fact that the FA have 232 instances of him betting on football suggests that he must have been doing so too. But those other sports weren't enough. 

As I mentioned a few days ago on the England squad thread, it might well have cost him a World Cup place but, given these are historic bets, I doubt that Toney thought he would get that close when placing them. He might have been the unlucky one and that others are doing it too. I wouldn't mind betting, though, that some of those will now think twice about carrying on especially if the FA ends up throwing the book at him by way of a lengthy ban. 

I've always thought this is quite crazy.

If Toney wanted to bet on a random Moldovan or Latvian game, or even Welling United, it's mad that he isn't allowed.

Football circles are small and Toney as an example has played at a number of levels and will have met/ played with/ against/ been mates with players at all those levels. Some of whom will have dropped down and been playing for/against your example of welling. Others (see Adam Matthews as an example) will go off and play in obscure foreign leagues. Even if its nothing as malicious as match fixing, theoretically a player could catch up with an old mate playing at any level of football and he could mention that they have a load of players out for their match and are gonna struggle....

But the bookies, who pay for information, are permitted to offer odds on things they know won’t happen
seems a little unfair imo

I take it this is based on your extensive experience in the betting industry?

I once had some information that meant I stood to make a lot of money on a bet (not in football)
hardly anyone knew but my bet got declined for no reason.  There was nothing illegal about it - I just overheard a conversation and realised so
eo was share price was about to go to shit

shock horror it went as I expected and I missed out.

Betting is unfairly weighted towards the bookies and not the punter.  Even when someone is winning they get stopped because foul play is suspected.  

ForeverAddickted said:

Has pleaded Guilty... Looks like he could serve a six month ban

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11748/12822321/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-admits-breaching-fa-betting-rules-and-could-face-six-month-ban

Covered_End_Lad said:

All the leagues and clubs are sponsored by betting companies, advertising hoardings and every advert on TV during half time. Then the FA are shocked and a appalled at a young man having a betting addiction.

Addick Addict said:

Covered_End_Lad said:

All the leagues and clubs are sponsored by betting companies, advertising hoardings and every advert on TV during half time. Then the FA are shocked and a appalled at a young man having a betting addiction.

Not disagreeing with you at all and the FA's biggest concern would be insider trading but a lot of footballers would do it anyway if it weren't for the regulations - and they bet on other sports anyway. They have so much spare time on their hands that some choose to occupy it doing so. There's one particular bookmaker that courts top footballers for obvious reasons and interviews them over lunch before taking them on. The lives of people like Paul Merson and one of our very own heroes were ruined by this addiction (although Merson's issues were compounded by other influences) and I know of one famous footballer (not Stan Bowles who was purported to have nipped out at half time to the bookies across the road) who phoned up at half time to put a bet on from the toilets! And that is very sad.