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England v France - Match Thread
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I actually thought we were light years from the Croatia and Italy games (probably an exageration but anyway....). We took the game to them for large parts. Only one team could go through and they scored more goals than we did so they deserved to qualify, but away from the misery of going out when a winnable tie awaited us in the semis, I was proud of how we battled, and the mentality seemed better. After we equalised, I thought we were very much the team looking to go on and win, while France were holding us at bay. But you always knew they had that quality in the ranks, and the game could get away in a moment, and that is what happened.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
How do you change the mentality? When Kane had the penalty I fully expected him to score and us to go onto win.Callumcafc said:Read this online and thought it was the perfect summary of English football…“Tchouameni hit the perfect shot. Griezmann hit the perfect cross. In a very even, high level game that’s what it takes to make the difference.England can play well enough in the big matches but we don’t capitalise on those perfect moments.Maradona scores goal of the century - that’s too good so we lose. Ronaldinho 40 yard free kick into the top corner - that’s too good so we lose. Michael Owen scores the goal of the tournament? Beckham gets sent off 2nd half - we lose.England have the quality and team ethic but the matchplay and winning mentality is still very much missing. The game tonight was there to be won but nobody actually stepped up and produced the match-winning moment.In a one-off game you would say that’s random chance but it’s been the story of England on the international stage for the last 60 years (or forever if you take away a home world cup). The gap between “playing well enough to win” and actually going out there and making it happen remains England’s barrier to success.”
The knockout defeats against Croatia and Iraly both felt like we lost due to a lack of self belief. We still seem stuck with that.
You need to take your chances....
Miserable saturday, and sunday was the same, with a hangover to boot, but there was a lot of space for optimism there. That is a young hungry squad, and other teams will worry about us in the future.4 -
Wow. Just wow.Dazzler21 said:
Weird definition of a back track. We had no right to get involved especially given our track record, they were pissed off by our involvement - understandably given our track record.Off_it said:
But that's not what you said is it? You said, "I'd argue they were right to be pissed off for the Falklands War", but you still haven't said why and seem to be backtracking now.Dazzler21 said:
Yes Britain never forced itself on another country ever against the will of the people?SoundAsa£ said:
Know your history Daz.Dazzler21 said:
So because of what happened before I was alive I should dislike them? The off the pitch stuff has nothing to do with my views on a nation now, I'd argue they were right to be pissed off for the Falklands war.SoundAsa£ said:
Are you unaware of the history and bad vibes rivalry we have with them……this goes back to 1966 and was made even worse when Maradona cheated us.Dazzler21 said:
Why?SoundAsa£ said:
That’s a given for any English fan.DamoNorthStand said:Usually I am full of loathing for the team that beats us …. But if it’s France v Argies, I still think I would want France to win
I might be missing something here, but for neither of the G.O.A.T players to not win the world cup would be a travesty.
Though Morocco get my backing!
Off the pitch they also dislike us for the Falklands war and the sinking of the Belgrano……all of which added to the mutual feelings of antipathy.
I am surprised you needed to ask.
I think the single good point is the hand of God, but that was forever ago.
Some of you seriously need to learn to move on!
I won't comment again on it, because AFKA has politely asked this is kept to Football.
Bar the hand of god, which was nothing to do with Messi or any of this crop from Argentina, I have no footballing reason to not want to see one of the greatest two footballers of all time win a World Cup.
I think you need to do a bit of background reading mate, including when Europeans first settled on the islands and the fact the Argentina didn't even exist as a country at that time. Also maybe have a think about the timing of why the Argentinian military dictatorship decided to launch a full scale invasion when they did - note: Argentina instigated the military action - rather than at any other point in the previous 150 years or so it had been a British territory. Particularly as diplomatic moves had been afoot for a while to resolve the ongoing dispute.
The fact the war may have happened before you were born doesn't mean it's all irrelevant now. Just ask the many veterans who fought there, or those who lost loved ones.7 -
Algarveaddick said:
Apart from Germany last year. *lancashire lad said:the best footballing team on the night won. England's 1st half effort was pathetic with slow sideways/backwards passing and nothing on par with France's attacking intent.
As soon as England come up against a top team in a competition they loose.
*Awaits "ah yes but that was the worst German team in XX years, so doesn't count".
I quote John Boy: "Even more a killer to get a message off my French mate to say he thought they were very much second best all game."Such a frustrating argument. It doesn't make any sense. You know if we'd lost Germany would have been included in the 'first good team' narrative but when we lose they're rubbish. Never mind the fact that team had Havertz, Neuer, Kimmich, Kroos, Goretzka, Gundogan, Rudiger, Muller and Gnabry among others. almost all of whom had either won their league or the Champions League that season (and Bayern had won it the year before). I'd include Croatia at the Euros in the good teams as well; they beat us in the semis last WC (the first good team we came up against apparently..) and then we beat them the next time and they 'weren't the same team' and were past it. Despite the fact they've made it to a second consecutive semi-final and knocked out Belgium, Japan (who beat Germany and Spain) and Brazil along the way a year later.Some football fans just refuse to see what's in front of them. But then what can you expect when people want England to be a gung ho attacking outfit and compare them unfavourably to Deschamps' France, the team who the structure of England's tournament play is literally based on. Deschamps is a defensive manager (32% possession against Belgium in the WC, 1-0 win, 39% possession in the final, won 4-2), France are just experienced and good at swinging those moments. France resisted the urge to remove him when they lost the Euro final in 2016 and again when they lost to Switzerland on pens in 2020 and there's a good chance they'll be rewarded with back to back World Cups because they've let Deschamps build up his team and get them to a point where there are experienced players alongside talented youth with a consistent sense of how they will play. We can and should look to do the same with Southgate.7 -
now the dust has settled a little im more pissed off than anything they were there for the taking and we created f all tbh.
we can blame the ref - yes it was a foul on saka for there goal and the non penalty was a foul.
the ref and linesman were shocking
but we didn't create much.
Pickford made a cracking save from giroud.
chasing a game and bringing on like for like subs dont help - taking off our biggest threat and bringing a player on that has just returned from home.
Rashford going for goal at the death of the game i would of leathered into the wall and hope for a goal like the dutch did.
the wait goes on, southgate has done well and 2024 will be our tournament.... i hope0 -
Yep that was such a great German team 🙄 we were favourites in our own back yard it wasn’t a shock for us to win
17 months on they were pathetic in the World Cup1 -
Fine margins:
Seems France as a country was not too interested in the WC/had a mild boycott.
Therefore the French team (probably) has less pressure from their public than Spain, England, Brazil and Portugal.
I wonder if this gave them a slight psychological advantage?0 -
https://in-site.xyz/insight/company-faces-major-loss-after-buying-18000-england-world-cup-winners-shirts/I can’t laugh I’ve got 10,000 ‘blow the league out the water’ t-shirts in my loft4
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I do think the Saka for Sterling sub was a calamity.0
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And not forgetting the "Free Nelson Mandela" t-shirts in the lock-up!JohnnyJoeyDeeDee said:https://in-site.xyz/insight/company-faces-major-loss-after-buying-18000-england-world-cup-winners-shirts/I can’t laugh I’ve got 10,000 ‘blow the league out the water’ t-shirts in my loft
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next summer we'll see the England World Cup Winners T shirts on sale at cricket grounds up and down the country, at a bargain price of courseJohnnyJoeyDeeDee said:https://in-site.xyz/insight/company-faces-major-loss-after-buying-18000-england-world-cup-winners-shirts/I can’t laugh I’ve got 10,000 ‘blow the league out the water’ t-shirts in my loft1 - Sponsored links:
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One WC final and One Euros final is a dismal record. We've effectively won 1 out of 2, which is a par result...Cafc43v3r said:
You do need the rub of the green, a bit of luck, or a moment of magic to win these games.killerandflash said:In a tight game you do need the rub of the green, which we didn't have on Saturday.
And that's not sour grapes either, as on other occasions in other sports we have had the rub of the green, e.g. that deflection off Stokes' bat for 4 in the 2019 Cricket World Cup Final.
We can all point to half a dozen, or more, times England haven't had that in big games but probably less than a handful of times where that one game stopped us winning the tournament. I would say "if" we had won the games we lost by the finest of margins we might have won 3 tournaments. 90, 96 and obviously 21. Maybe 2004.
There has been 28 tournaments since we last won one. That's the problem. Keep giving ourselves a chance and it will happen. Fail to qualify, get knocked out in the groups or lose to Iceland and it won't.0 -
No wonder they rarely award England the finals , we're nigh on imperious on home soilkillerandflash said:
One WC final and One Euros final is a dismal record. We've effectively won 1 out of 2, which is a par result...Cafc43v3r said:
You do need the rub of the green, a bit of luck, or a moment of magic to win these games.killerandflash said:In a tight game you do need the rub of the green, which we didn't have on Saturday.
And that's not sour grapes either, as on other occasions in other sports we have had the rub of the green, e.g. that deflection off Stokes' bat for 4 in the 2019 Cricket World Cup Final.
We can all point to half a dozen, or more, times England haven't had that in big games but probably less than a handful of times where that one game stopped us winning the tournament. I would say "if" we had won the games we lost by the finest of margins we might have won 3 tournaments. 90, 96 and obviously 21. Maybe 2004.
There has been 28 tournaments since we last won one. That's the problem. Keep giving ourselves a chance and it will happen. Fail to qualify, get knocked out in the groups or lose to Iceland and it won't.2 -
So disappointing, again. When you think of all the teams that have won the World Cup or Euros since we won in 1966 we have to be football's biggest underachieving nation.
Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Denmark, Greece....
We should definitely be on that list.1 -
Tragic that Kane, a first class professional and thoroughly decent individual, will for ever be remembered as the guy who missed the crucial penalty.
Not fair in any shape or form but that’s the reality in this case.2 -
Only until he scores a hat-trick in the next final and goes on to lift the trophy ....SoundAsa£ said:Tragic that Kane, a first class professional and thoroughly decent individual, will for ever be remembered as the guy who missed the crucial penalty.
Not fair in any shape or form but that’s the reality in this case.1 -
I think he can put it to bed at the next Euros. We are all delighted we have Kane and these things happen to the best.0
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Only by people that don’t understand football.SoundAsa£ said:Tragic that Kane, a first class professional and thoroughly decent individual, will for ever be remembered as the guy who missed the crucial penalty.
Not fair in any shape or form but that’s the reality in this case.
The guy will be England and the Premier Leagues all time top goalscorer.14 -
It would have been baffling at the best of times given how well Saka was playing, but given the personal stuff Sterling has had to deal with and the traveling back and forth i think it was an awful substitution.SELR_addicks said:I do think the Saka for Sterling sub was a calamity.
That's probably the only criticism i'd make of Southgate all tournament, we didn't do much else wrong.1 -
To be fair to Saka, adudnt he pick up a knock? He was holding his hamstring at one point allbeit briefly! I assumed the only reason he got hooked was he was injured.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
It would have been baffling at the best of times given how well Saka was playing, but given the personal stuff Sterling has had to deal with and the traveling back and forth i think it was an awful substitution.SELR_addicks said:I do think the Saka for Sterling sub was a calamity.
That's probably the only criticism i'd make of Southgate all tournament, we didn't do much else wrong.0 -
Maybe I'm trying too hard to justify it bitChris_from_Sidcup said:Reflecting on last night and still gutted. Another glorious chance gone and i genuinely feel if we'd won last night we'd have gone on to win the world cup.
I honestly don't think we did anything wrong and we were slightly the better side, but in games like that it comes down to fine margins.
A couple of question marks for me though:
1. Saka was absolutely terrorising their full back, so it was very bizarre to take him off and put Sterling on.
2. James Maddison, one of the most in form players in the league heading into the world cup, didn't get given a single minute all tournament. Does he need a move to one of the big 6 to finally get a proper chance with England?
Lastly, i actually hope Southgate stays on as manager. The players all seem to love him and if he leaves then who is there? I've seen names like Tuchel and Pochettino mentioned, but i honestly don't see either of them being interested in an international job yet.
1) looked to be tiring to me (though I would have brought Rashford on as like for like pave to keep the fullback pegged back)
2) He's a number 10 which is a position England didn't use all tournament. We played with dual 8s (Bellingham with either Mount or Hendo) either side of the holding midfielder (Rice). I think its accepted that Madds doesn't have the work rate or defensive ability to play that more box to box role (same goes for Foden who can play as a 10 but not an 8). Its useful to have him in the squad as an option if you need to change the system but isn't likely to feature much if the system doesn't change.2 - Sponsored links:
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Okay 👍🏼Off_it said:
Wow. Just wow.Dazzler21 said:
Weird definition of a back track. We had no right to get involved especially given our track record, they were pissed off by our involvement - understandably given our track record.Off_it said:
But that's not what you said is it? You said, "I'd argue they were right to be pissed off for the Falklands War", but you still haven't said why and seem to be backtracking now.Dazzler21 said:
Yes Britain never forced itself on another country ever against the will of the people?SoundAsa£ said:
Know your history Daz.Dazzler21 said:
So because of what happened before I was alive I should dislike them? The off the pitch stuff has nothing to do with my views on a nation now, I'd argue they were right to be pissed off for the Falklands war.SoundAsa£ said:
Are you unaware of the history and bad vibes rivalry we have with them……this goes back to 1966 and was made even worse when Maradona cheated us.Dazzler21 said:
Why?SoundAsa£ said:
That’s a given for any English fan.DamoNorthStand said:Usually I am full of loathing for the team that beats us …. But if it’s France v Argies, I still think I would want France to win
I might be missing something here, but for neither of the G.O.A.T players to not win the world cup would be a travesty.
Though Morocco get my backing!
Off the pitch they also dislike us for the Falklands war and the sinking of the Belgrano……all of which added to the mutual feelings of antipathy.
I am surprised you needed to ask.
I think the single good point is the hand of God, but that was forever ago.
Some of you seriously need to learn to move on!
I won't comment again on it, because AFKA has politely asked this is kept to Football.
Bar the hand of god, which was nothing to do with Messi or any of this crop from Argentina, I have no footballing reason to not want to see one of the greatest two footballers of all time win a World Cup.
I think you need to do a bit of background reading mate, including when Europeans first settled on the islands and the fact the Argentina didn't even exist as a country at that time. Also maybe have a think about the timing of why the Argentinian military dictatorship decided to launch a full scale invasion when they did - note: Argentina instigated the military action - rather than at any other point in the previous 150 years or so it had been a British territory. Particularly as diplomatic moves had been afoot for a while to resolve the ongoing dispute.
The fact the war may have happened before you were born doesn't mean it's all irrelevant now. Just ask the many veterans who fought there, or those who lost loved ones.
See the bold bit. This is a football forum, you want to keep politicking take it to HoC.
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Masterful0
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You have to make subs in the moment and it can sometimes be just a feeling. I have been a critic of Southgate but can't for the subs he made. My criticism has been around us playing too safe when we take the lead but I have seen worse from other managers in this tournament. Far worse. Maybe it is the pressure of the job and if he is thinking of quitting maybe he can shrug his shoulders and adopt a no fear strategy for the next couple of years.
I wouldn't have a problem with him managing us to and in the Euros but likewise, if he has to think about it too long he probably shouldn't and we might need a new manager. If he wants to stay on he shouldn't be averse to criticism, it goes with the job, which he just needs to get on with. And remember success will bring great praise too.0 -
We're losing the 50/50 games under Southgate and that ultimately isn't all down to bad luck.2
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I think we edged the French game so it can be down to bad luck. Nobody is going to do more than edge them as I suspect nobody would be able to do more than edge us. We have weaknesses and the strengths seem to be young players so maybe we can strengthen those and win a tournament in the next few years.0
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Come on everybody, we have the Lionesses. Surely their success makes everything alright. Does it matter what Charlton and the England men do, when we can have successful ladies.Tongue and cheek firmly connected…….1
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We have never win the 50/50 games, most of the time we haven't got far enough to play them.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:We're losing the 50/50 games under Southgate and that ultimately isn't all down to bad luck.
Not sure a world cup semi final is a 50/50 game when your team includes Ashley Young and Jessie Lingard anyway.
A penalty shootout is a large degree of luck, or at least on the day.
There was no shame, considering the circumstances in losing on Saturday.3 -
So you agree that some of it is down to bad luck.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:We're losing the 50/50 games under Southgate and that ultimately isn't all down to bad luck.
I think so too. One moment of bad luck in the game and they score; five missed good chances down to poor execution from individuals and we lose a game 1-0 that we could have won 5-1. Nothing Southgate can do about one of the best strikers in the world missing a penalty.
That's football.2 -
does the weight of expectation from the English press and public lead to a lack of 'coolness; by some players, especially in front of goal as well as a reluctance to make 'risky' passes ?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:We're losing the 50/50 games under Southgate and that ultimately isn't all down to bad luck.1 -
That semi final had midfields of Lingard, Dele Alli and Henderson against Modric, Rakitic and Brozovic. No comparison really.Cafc43v3r said:
We have never win the 50/50 games, most of the time we haven't got far enough to play them.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:We're losing the 50/50 games under Southgate and that ultimately isn't all down to bad luck.
Not sure a world cup semi final is a 50/50 game when your team includes Ashley Young and Jessie Lingard anyway.
A penalty shootout is a large degree of luck, or at least on the day.
There was no shame, considering the circumstances in losing on Saturday.2
