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England v France - Match Thread
Comments
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Says who?MuttleyCAFC said:But the ref in the Stockport cup game for instance let some clear fouls go and blew up for some soft ones. He wasn't a cheat but lost in the system. With VAR available, the guidance should be, if you see a foul give a foul.
Changing the subject, I think England have a great chance of lifting a major trophy this decade. There were three standout teams in this tournament IMO and they were France, England and Brazil. It was bad luck also that we played France in the quarters.
Whilst I do think there’s a lot more cheating going on than we’d ever like to accept, I don’t think that’s what happened on Sunday, it was just an incompetent ref coming from a no mark league that was totally overwhelmed.Get real refs, from real leagues in charge of the big games and sack off this ridiculous idea of ‘fairness’4 -
Yeah I don’t think the ref was an actual cheat, it makes us England fans look desperate, however he was just absolutely fucking useless.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Says who?MuttleyCAFC said:But the ref in the Stockport cup game for instance let some clear fouls go and blew up for some soft ones. He wasn't a cheat but lost in the system. With VAR available, the guidance should be, if you see a foul give a foul.
Changing the subject, I think England have a great chance of lifting a major trophy this decade. There were three standout teams in this tournament IMO and they were France, England and Brazil. It was bad luck also that we played France in the quarters.
Whilst I do think there’s a lot more cheating going on than we’d ever like to accept, I don’t think that’s what happened on Sunday, it was just an incompetent ref coming from a no mark league that was totally overwhelmed.Get real refs, from real leagues in charge of the big games and sack off this ridiculous idea of ‘fairness’8 -
99% most likely wasn't a cheat. But can you rule out the possibility completely... This World Cup was held in Qatar, after all. They only achieved that via paying people off. They have just been caught paying off people in the EU parliament. Are they really above paying off a referee? No doubt the English media have been giving them a hard time and Mbappe is the star player on their payroll.
They probably didn't. But then again, who knows. I most certainly wouldn't say they're not capable of it - clearly they very much are.
I read somewhere that Byron Moreno, the Ecuadorian referee who put in that famously 'horrendous' performance when Italy went out to South Korea at the 2002 World Cup, was later arrested trying to smuggle 6kg of heroin onto a commercial flight (sellotaped to his legs in plastic bags). Was his performance 'useless' as well? Probably. Or maybe not.2 -
I'll just add on to my above post that it was through the French that the Qataris got their World Cup bid done.
Through Michel Platini and through the French President at the time, Nikolas Sarkozy.2 -
agree totally .. I mentioned way up the page that a European referee should have been appointed, (preferably a 'Brexiter' ..Stu_of_Kunming said:
Says who?MuttleyCAFC said:But the ref in the Stockport cup game for instance let some clear fouls go and blew up for some soft ones. He wasn't a cheat but lost in the system. With VAR available, the guidance should be, if you see a foul give a foul.
Changing the subject, I think England have a great chance of lifting a major trophy this decade. There were three standout teams in this tournament IMO and they were France, England and Brazil. It was bad luck also that we played France in the quarters.
Whilst I do think there’s a lot more cheating going on than we’d ever like to accept, I don’t think that’s what happened on Sunday, it was just an incompetent ref coming from a no mark league that was totally overwhelmed.Get real refs, from real leagues in charge of the big games and sack off this ridiculous idea of ‘fairness’
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a Greek senior EU official/MEP, Eva Kaili has been charged with corruption connected to Qatar .. so far it's not clear if this is World Cup relatedChunes said:I'll just add on to my above post that it was through the French that the Qataris got their World Cup bid done.
Through Michel Platini and through the French President at the time, Nikolas Sarkozy.0 -
I read a theory that because the bloke is Brazilian and is so used to refereeing in a league where you're effectively playing a non-contact sport, he wasn't sure how to handle a game between two of the bigger European nations where we're more in favour of letting the occasional contact go (within the spirit of the game) in favour of the game flowing.ValleyGary said:
Yeah I don’t think the ref was an actual cheat, it makes us England fans look desperate, however he was just absolutely fucking useless.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Says who?MuttleyCAFC said:But the ref in the Stockport cup game for instance let some clear fouls go and blew up for some soft ones. He wasn't a cheat but lost in the system. With VAR available, the guidance should be, if you see a foul give a foul.
Changing the subject, I think England have a great chance of lifting a major trophy this decade. There were three standout teams in this tournament IMO and they were France, England and Brazil. It was bad luck also that we played France in the quarters.
Whilst I do think there’s a lot more cheating going on than we’d ever like to accept, I don’t think that’s what happened on Sunday, it was just an incompetent ref coming from a no mark league that was totally overwhelmed.Get real refs, from real leagues in charge of the big games and sack off this ridiculous idea of ‘fairness’
The theory goes that he tried to adapt his refereeing style to fit the teams that were playing but all that meant was that he was inconsistent in what counted as a foul and what didn't. Ended up getting in his own head and hence a confused performance for both sides.
It's probably bollocks, and maybe I even read it on here, but thought I'd throw that theory into the mix while the ref's performance is being discussed.1 -
PS - can the thread title be edited to include the fact it was a 2022 WC QF? Feel like that might be helpful when trying to find this thread after six months, or six years when we’re playing France in Euro 2028.
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Tim Vickery wrote about it:Callumcafc said:
I read a theory that because the bloke is Brazilian and is so used to refereeing in a league where you're effectively playing a non-contact sport, he wasn't sure how to handle a game between two of the bigger European nations where we're more in favour of letting the occasional contact go (within the spirit of the game) in favour of the game flowing.ValleyGary said:
Yeah I don’t think the ref was an actual cheat, it makes us England fans look desperate, however he was just absolutely fucking useless.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Says who?MuttleyCAFC said:But the ref in the Stockport cup game for instance let some clear fouls go and blew up for some soft ones. He wasn't a cheat but lost in the system. With VAR available, the guidance should be, if you see a foul give a foul.
Changing the subject, I think England have a great chance of lifting a major trophy this decade. There were three standout teams in this tournament IMO and they were France, England and Brazil. It was bad luck also that we played France in the quarters.
Whilst I do think there’s a lot more cheating going on than we’d ever like to accept, I don’t think that’s what happened on Sunday, it was just an incompetent ref coming from a no mark league that was totally overwhelmed.Get real refs, from real leagues in charge of the big games and sack off this ridiculous idea of ‘fairness’
The theory goes that he tried to adapt his refereeing style to fit the teams that were playing but all that meant was that he was inconsistent in what counted as a foul and what didn't. Ended up getting in his own head and hence a confused performance for both sides.
It's probably bollocks, and maybe I even read it on here, but thought I'd throw that theory into the mix while the ref's performance is being discussed.
https://www.givemesport.com/88093502-england-vs-france-referee-south-american-football-experts-theory-on-why-he-was-so-bad/amp
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Excellent, thank you - couldn't find the source so that's helpful.Macronate said:
Tim Vickery wrote about it:Callumcafc said:
I read a theory that because the bloke is Brazilian and is so used to refereeing in a league where you're effectively playing a non-contact sport, he wasn't sure how to handle a game between two of the bigger European nations where we're more in favour of letting the occasional contact go (within the spirit of the game) in favour of the game flowing.ValleyGary said:
Yeah I don’t think the ref was an actual cheat, it makes us England fans look desperate, however he was just absolutely fucking useless.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Says who?MuttleyCAFC said:But the ref in the Stockport cup game for instance let some clear fouls go and blew up for some soft ones. He wasn't a cheat but lost in the system. With VAR available, the guidance should be, if you see a foul give a foul.
Changing the subject, I think England have a great chance of lifting a major trophy this decade. There were three standout teams in this tournament IMO and they were France, England and Brazil. It was bad luck also that we played France in the quarters.
Whilst I do think there’s a lot more cheating going on than we’d ever like to accept, I don’t think that’s what happened on Sunday, it was just an incompetent ref coming from a no mark league that was totally overwhelmed.Get real refs, from real leagues in charge of the big games and sack off this ridiculous idea of ‘fairness’
The theory goes that he tried to adapt his refereeing style to fit the teams that were playing but all that meant was that he was inconsistent in what counted as a foul and what didn't. Ended up getting in his own head and hence a confused performance for both sides.
It's probably bollocks, and maybe I even read it on here, but thought I'd throw that theory into the mix while the ref's performance is being discussed.
https://www.givemesport.com/88093502-england-vs-france-referee-south-american-football-experts-theory-on-why-he-was-so-bad/amp0 -
Here in Portugal they give a foul every time someone glances at another player, but the same refs are very different when they officiate in international competitions. I guess they learn their skills for the Euros and World Cups reffing the Champions League and Europa League matches. Whereas South American refs officiate the same way whether it is in domestic competition, or in the Copa Libertadores?0
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The way they allocate the refs to the world cup is nonsense. Really. That game shouldnhave been over seen by the best referee UEFA have, that isn't French or English.Callumcafc said:
I read a theory that because the bloke is Brazilian and is so used to refereeing in a league where you're effectively playing a non-contact sport, he wasn't sure how to handle a game between two of the bigger European nations where we're more in favour of letting the occasional contact go (within the spirit of the game) in favour of the game flowing.ValleyGary said:
Yeah I don’t think the ref was an actual cheat, it makes us England fans look desperate, however he was just absolutely fucking useless.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Says who?MuttleyCAFC said:But the ref in the Stockport cup game for instance let some clear fouls go and blew up for some soft ones. He wasn't a cheat but lost in the system. With VAR available, the guidance should be, if you see a foul give a foul.
Changing the subject, I think England have a great chance of lifting a major trophy this decade. There were three standout teams in this tournament IMO and they were France, England and Brazil. It was bad luck also that we played France in the quarters.
Whilst I do think there’s a lot more cheating going on than we’d ever like to accept, I don’t think that’s what happened on Sunday, it was just an incompetent ref coming from a no mark league that was totally overwhelmed.Get real refs, from real leagues in charge of the big games and sack off this ridiculous idea of ‘fairness’
The theory goes that he tried to adapt his refereeing style to fit the teams that were playing but all that meant was that he was inconsistent in what counted as a foul and what didn't. Ended up getting in his own head and hence a confused performance for both sides.
It's probably bollocks, and maybe I even read it on here, but thought I'd throw that theory into the mix while the ref's performance is being discussed.1 -
One great thing about the world cup is that all the teams who tried to play possession football, passing it backwards and forwards in their own half, got kicked out before the last stages. England did it for most of the first half against France and ended up paying the penalty (ouch).
I hope the Garnerball style coaching manual gets torn up after this and we get back to a more attacking, aggressive style of football. Garnerball ( and I know he did not invent it) is boring at the top level and both boring and embarassing at the Inniss level.
Time for a change.1 -
England aren't/weren't trying to play Garnerball, they were trying to play Deschampsball. Against France a lot of England slowing it down at the back was for game management reasons, not possession for the sake of it.Southbank said:One great thing about the world cup is that all the teams who tried to play possession football, passing it backwards and forwards in their own half, got kicked out before the last stages. England did it for most of the first half against France and ended up paying the penalty (ouch).
I hope the Garnerball style coaching manual gets torn up after this and we get back to a more attacking, aggressive style of football. Garnerball ( and I know he did not invent it) is boring at the top level and both boring and embarassing at the Inniss level.
Time for a change.1 -
Yeah I would like to see an approach similar to Premier League football, I think the pace would catch teams out. I get it’s difficult against sides that sit back but against the better teams I feel it could work.Southbank said:One great thing about the world cup is that all the teams who tried to play possession football, passing it backwards and forwards in their own half, got kicked out before the last stages. England did it for most of the first half against France and ended up paying the penalty (ouch).
I hope the Garnerball style coaching manual gets torn up after this and we get back to a more attacking, aggressive style of football. Garnerball ( and I know he did not invent it) is boring at the top level and both boring and embarassing at the Inniss level.
Time for a change.0 -
Tim Vickery is one of the very few football reporters who I don’t think I’ve ever disagreed with. One of the best communicators and minds going when it comes to this sort of stuff.Macronate said:
Tim Vickery wrote about it:Callumcafc said:
I read a theory that because the bloke is Brazilian and is so used to refereeing in a league where you're effectively playing a non-contact sport, he wasn't sure how to handle a game between two of the bigger European nations where we're more in favour of letting the occasional contact go (within the spirit of the game) in favour of the game flowing.ValleyGary said:
Yeah I don’t think the ref was an actual cheat, it makes us England fans look desperate, however he was just absolutely fucking useless.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Says who?MuttleyCAFC said:But the ref in the Stockport cup game for instance let some clear fouls go and blew up for some soft ones. He wasn't a cheat but lost in the system. With VAR available, the guidance should be, if you see a foul give a foul.
Changing the subject, I think England have a great chance of lifting a major trophy this decade. There were three standout teams in this tournament IMO and they were France, England and Brazil. It was bad luck also that we played France in the quarters.
Whilst I do think there’s a lot more cheating going on than we’d ever like to accept, I don’t think that’s what happened on Sunday, it was just an incompetent ref coming from a no mark league that was totally overwhelmed.Get real refs, from real leagues in charge of the big games and sack off this ridiculous idea of ‘fairness’
The theory goes that he tried to adapt his refereeing style to fit the teams that were playing but all that meant was that he was inconsistent in what counted as a foul and what didn't. Ended up getting in his own head and hence a confused performance for both sides.
It's probably bollocks, and maybe I even read it on here, but thought I'd throw that theory into the mix while the ref's performance is being discussed.
https://www.givemesport.com/88093502-england-vs-france-referee-south-american-football-experts-theory-on-why-he-was-so-bad/amp0 -
You'd have thought it might go to Makkelie or Orsato but hey ho.Cafc43v3r said:
The way they allocate the refs to the world cup is nonsense. Really. That game shouldnhave been over seen by the best referee UEFA have, that isn't French or English.Callumcafc said:
I read a theory that because the bloke is Brazilian and is so used to refereeing in a league where you're effectively playing a non-contact sport, he wasn't sure how to handle a game between two of the bigger European nations where we're more in favour of letting the occasional contact go (within the spirit of the game) in favour of the game flowing.ValleyGary said:
Yeah I don’t think the ref was an actual cheat, it makes us England fans look desperate, however he was just absolutely fucking useless.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Says who?MuttleyCAFC said:But the ref in the Stockport cup game for instance let some clear fouls go and blew up for some soft ones. He wasn't a cheat but lost in the system. With VAR available, the guidance should be, if you see a foul give a foul.
Changing the subject, I think England have a great chance of lifting a major trophy this decade. There were three standout teams in this tournament IMO and they were France, England and Brazil. It was bad luck also that we played France in the quarters.
Whilst I do think there’s a lot more cheating going on than we’d ever like to accept, I don’t think that’s what happened on Sunday, it was just an incompetent ref coming from a no mark league that was totally overwhelmed.Get real refs, from real leagues in charge of the big games and sack off this ridiculous idea of ‘fairness’
The theory goes that he tried to adapt his refereeing style to fit the teams that were playing but all that meant was that he was inconsistent in what counted as a foul and what didn't. Ended up getting in his own head and hence a confused performance for both sides.
It's probably bollocks, and maybe I even read it on here, but thought I'd throw that theory into the mix while the ref's performance is being discussed.0 -
One of the things you have to deal with at a World Cup is that the refs will have different styles that you're not used to and you have to adapt. There have been several games during the tournament when referees have allowed some obvious fouls to go. The ref in the Wales Iran game allowed them to kick us all over the park and it made a huge contribution to how dominant they were during the game. No-one offered us any sympathy, and we didn't expect any or ask for any.
When I was a kid, the standard of refereeing at World Cups was a joke and the linesmen were even worse. Things are a lot better now, and VAR does redress some of the worst howlers. Shame it can't be used to give an obvious free kick that was just outside the box, but sometimes that's just how it goes.
England did well and are now among the favourites for the next Euros. Meanwhile the Welsh team are clearly past it and the current generation of Scots never had it in the first place. It's not a bad position to be in.0 -
that is what is wrong with football in a post-VAR era.Swindon_Addick said:One of the things you have to deal with at a World Cup is that the refs will have different styles that you're not used to and you have to adapt. There have been several games during the tournament when referees have allowed some obvious fouls to go. The ref in the Wales Iran game allowed them to kick us all over the park and it made a huge contribution to how dominant they were during the game. No-one offered us any sympathy, and we didn't expect any or ask for any.
When I was a kid, the standard of refereeing at World Cups was a joke and the linesmen were even worse. Things are a lot better now, and VAR does redress some of the worst howlers. Shame it can't be used to give an obvious free kick that was just outside the box, but sometimes that's just how it goes.
England did well and are now among the favourites for the next Euros. Meanwhile the Welsh team are clearly past it and the current generation of Scots never had it in the first place. It's not a bad position to be in.
you can't have it both ways. It's unfair
VAR doesn't have "different styles" it's either against the laws of the game, or not.0 - Sponsored links:
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Know what you mean, however the issue is that the majority of the very best Premier League players are not EnglishValleyGary said:
Yeah I would like to see an approach similar to Premier League football, I think the pace would catch teams out. I get it’s difficult against sides that sit back but against the better teams I feel it could work.Southbank said:One great thing about the world cup is that all the teams who tried to play possession football, passing it backwards and forwards in their own half, got kicked out before the last stages. England did it for most of the first half against France and ended up paying the penalty (ouch).
I hope the Garnerball style coaching manual gets torn up after this and we get back to a more attacking, aggressive style of football. Garnerball ( and I know he did not invent it) is boring at the top level and both boring and embarassing at the Inniss level.
Time for a change.0 -
Southgate has decided to stay and to contine to honor his contract.
Certainly the right decision for out national side2
