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Wigan financial woes - up for sale again? p40
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What a load of bollocksMattF said:WIGAN ATHLETIC CHIEF EXECUTIVE, MALACHY BRANNIGAN, PROVIDES THE FOLLOWING UPDATE TO SUPPORTERSClub is not for saleBanking system the cause of delays to employee wages last weekendLeam Richardson signs new three-year contractWigan Athletic Chief Executive, Malachy Brannigan, responds to varying news articles over the last couple of days…The primary message that I want to convey is to assure the Club’s staff, its supporters and its business partners that, despite the recent media opinion, the current and future financial health of Wigan Athletic is strong and very secure, and I can confirm that the Club is not up for sale.Speculation over clubs being for sale is always rife, and while some potential purchasers have approached the Ownership group on a number of occasions since its acquisition of Wigan Athletic in March 2021, no approaches have ever been entertained.It is only natural that the Club would attract interest given the positive journey it has been on in the last 19 months, but we remain committed in returning the Club to where we believe it belongs in the football pyramid.Football is a business that is very much in the public eye and at times, brings a level of scrutiny not experienced by many other industries.Where appropriate, I am extremely mindful of our duty to inform and notify as many of our stakeholders of Club matters in a timely manner, but there are times where such scrutiny impacts on those who work within the Club on a personal level; discussing pay and payroll is one such topic.I can assure you that funding has never been the reason for any previous delay, and this is still the position in this situation.We are aware of what needs to be done to make sure a late payment situation doesn’t happen again under our tenure, especially as they have recently been as a consequence of a banking process that took much longer than it should have done, once the funds were in the system.The commitment to our Club from Mr Al Jasmi and Talal Al Hammad is unwavering and the very recent announcement on extending Leam Richardson’s contract for a further three years only goes to underline their support.We are all delighted that Leam has committed his future to the Club and that he wants to continue to develop his career at the DW Stadium.While the terms have been agreed for a while now - although not as far back as June 2021 - everyone concerned wanted to wait and officially announce the news during a short visit to Bahrain this week, to discuss a number of Club matters with Mr Al Jasmi and Talal.Leam has their full support and everyone is aligned on what the short, medium and long term goals are for the football operation.Delivering a championship-winning team less than 12 months after avoiding relegation, while instilling a culture and spirit of togetherness, reflects Leam’s character, and those of his staff, and there is a determined resolve to continue to build on the foundations already in place.It may be argued by some that this statement is a little overdue, but I feel it better to occasionally let the dust settle on some matters and ignore those issues that are much more of a speculative nature.I hope that the above has given assurance and answered some of the questions that may have been raised as a consequence of both factual and speculative information over the past couple of days.3 -
I loved the bit near the end about perhaps the statement is a little overdue but thought it best to let the dust settle first.stonemuse said:
What a load of bollocksMattF said:WIGAN ATHLETIC CHIEF EXECUTIVE, MALACHY BRANNIGAN, PROVIDES THE FOLLOWING UPDATE TO SUPPORTERSClub is not for saleBanking system the cause of delays to employee wages last weekendLeam Richardson signs new three-year contractWigan Athletic Chief Executive, Malachy Brannigan, responds to varying news articles over the last couple of days…The primary message that I want to convey is to assure the Club’s staff, its supporters and its business partners that, despite the recent media opinion, the current and future financial health of Wigan Athletic is strong and very secure, and I can confirm that the Club is not up for sale.Speculation over clubs being for sale is always rife, and while some potential purchasers have approached the Ownership group on a number of occasions since its acquisition of Wigan Athletic in March 2021, no approaches have ever been entertained.It is only natural that the Club would attract interest given the positive journey it has been on in the last 19 months, but we remain committed in returning the Club to where we believe it belongs in the football pyramid.Football is a business that is very much in the public eye and at times, brings a level of scrutiny not experienced by many other industries.Where appropriate, I am extremely mindful of our duty to inform and notify as many of our stakeholders of Club matters in a timely manner, but there are times where such scrutiny impacts on those who work within the Club on a personal level; discussing pay and payroll is one such topic.I can assure you that funding has never been the reason for any previous delay, and this is still the position in this situation.We are aware of what needs to be done to make sure a late payment situation doesn’t happen again under our tenure, especially as they have recently been as a consequence of a banking process that took much longer than it should have done, once the funds were in the system.The commitment to our Club from Mr Al Jasmi and Talal Al Hammad is unwavering and the very recent announcement on extending Leam Richardson’s contract for a further three years only goes to underline their support.We are all delighted that Leam has committed his future to the Club and that he wants to continue to develop his career at the DW Stadium.While the terms have been agreed for a while now - although not as far back as June 2021 - everyone concerned wanted to wait and officially announce the news during a short visit to Bahrain this week, to discuss a number of Club matters with Mr Al Jasmi and Talal.Leam has their full support and everyone is aligned on what the short, medium and long term goals are for the football operation.Delivering a championship-winning team less than 12 months after avoiding relegation, while instilling a culture and spirit of togetherness, reflects Leam’s character, and those of his staff, and there is a determined resolve to continue to build on the foundations already in place.It may be argued by some that this statement is a little overdue, but I feel it better to occasionally let the dust settle on some matters and ignore those issues that are much more of a speculative nature.I hope that the above has given assurance and answered some of the questions that may have been raised as a consequence of both factual and speculative information over the past couple of days.
Yes, its always best to squash a rumour 3 days after the event & not immediately.5 -
So If TS had not come along then we get expelled from the league, likely forcing us into liquidation (who would have bought us in non league?).Manic_mania said:
administration should be ejection from the football league, regardless of position in the pyramid.golfaddick said:
But they are STILL in that higher division. Unless administration meant automatic relegation then clubs will keep pushing the boundaries. Look at Derby. Took a few years before it finally caught up with them & they only got a points deduction for dodgy accounting, not for going into administration. QPR did it a few years ago too & they got into the Premier league. And when the EFL did finally "take action" it was once they had been relegated (because they couldn't touch them in the PL) and had the PL money to help pay any "fines". Probably no coincidence they are top 6 now as they probably have the better players that they signed post PL times.Swisdom said:
By doing EXACTLY what caused them administration last time - spending money they don’t have.golfaddick said:
What division are they in ?AndyG said:Be careful what u wish for lesson here folks
Without the overspending last season they wouldn’t have got promoted….. this is a piss take.
Crime pays in football.
Do you think Nimer/Southall would have given two shits? Do you think it would have put them off buying another club if the opportunity cane along and they thought they could make money?
It would simply punish fans for something a long gone owner had caused with that owner getting no punishment at all.17 -
The key to this is that the fans shouldn't be penalised for having bad owners. The owners should be personally liable and not permitted to walk away leaving carnage behind them9
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That would require changes to limited company law though. If liability was unlimited, it would certainly make owning a Club a less tempting proposition.AndyG said:The key to this is that the fans shouldn't be penalised for having bad owners. The owners should be personally liable and not permitted to walk away leaving carnage behind them
All the footballing authorities can do is try to prevent irresponsible owners getting involved in the first place, which they do as best they can.
I see the points deductions as a way for the EFL to effectively enforce FFP. If league placing has been achieved through paying for players the Club's can't afford, a bit like saying you've been fielding ineligible ones, then it's not fair on other teams. It's not the fans fault, but the alternative would be to get the owners, old or new, to pay compensation to those others instead.
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Entirely possible if they were using some dodgy hawala banker.stonemuse said:
What a load of bollocksMattF said:WIGAN ATHLETIC CHIEF EXECUTIVE, MALACHY BRANNIGAN, PROVIDES THE FOLLOWING UPDATE TO SUPPORTERSClub is not for saleBanking system the cause of delays to employee wages last weekendLeam Richardson signs new three-year contractWigan Athletic Chief Executive, Malachy Brannigan, responds to varying news articles over the last couple of days…The primary message that I want to convey is to assure the Club’s staff, its supporters and its business partners that, despite the recent media opinion, the current and future financial health of Wigan Athletic is strong and very secure, and I can confirm that the Club is not up for sale.Speculation over clubs being for sale is always rife, and while some potential purchasers have approached the Ownership group on a number of occasions since its acquisition of Wigan Athletic in March 2021, no approaches have ever been entertained.It is only natural that the Club would attract interest given the positive journey it has been on in the last 19 months, but we remain committed in returning the Club to where we believe it belongs in the football pyramid.Football is a business that is very much in the public eye and at times, brings a level of scrutiny not experienced by many other industries.Where appropriate, I am extremely mindful of our duty to inform and notify as many of our stakeholders of Club matters in a timely manner, but there are times where such scrutiny impacts on those who work within the Club on a personal level; discussing pay and payroll is one such topic.I can assure you that funding has never been the reason for any previous delay, and this is still the position in this situation.We are aware of what needs to be done to make sure a late payment situation doesn’t happen again under our tenure, especially as they have recently been as a consequence of a banking process that took much longer than it should have done, once the funds were in the system.The commitment to our Club from Mr Al Jasmi and Talal Al Hammad is unwavering and the very recent announcement on extending Leam Richardson’s contract for a further three years only goes to underline their support.We are all delighted that Leam has committed his future to the Club and that he wants to continue to develop his career at the DW Stadium.While the terms have been agreed for a while now - although not as far back as June 2021 - everyone concerned wanted to wait and officially announce the news during a short visit to Bahrain this week, to discuss a number of Club matters with Mr Al Jasmi and Talal.Leam has their full support and everyone is aligned on what the short, medium and long term goals are for the football operation.Delivering a championship-winning team less than 12 months after avoiding relegation, while instilling a culture and spirit of togetherness, reflects Leam’s character, and those of his staff, and there is a determined resolve to continue to build on the foundations already in place.It may be argued by some that this statement is a little overdue, but I feel it better to occasionally let the dust settle on some matters and ignore those issues that are much more of a speculative nature.I hope that the above has given assurance and answered some of the questions that may have been raised as a consequence of both factual and speculative information over the past couple of days.0 -
Speaking here as a recently retired bank manager, rather than as a very good friend of the Wigan CEO, it is entirely possible that there is an issue with transferring funds into the UK. The level of sanctions screening that goes into bank transfers, particularly those from abroad, has grown massively in recent years.stonemuse said:
What a load of bollocksMattF said:WIGAN ATHLETIC CHIEF EXECUTIVE, MALACHY BRANNIGAN, PROVIDES THE FOLLOWING UPDATE TO SUPPORTERSClub is not for saleBanking system the cause of delays to employee wages last weekendLeam Richardson signs new three-year contractWigan Athletic Chief Executive, Malachy Brannigan, responds to varying news articles over the last couple of days…The primary message that I want to convey is to assure the Club’s staff, its supporters and its business partners that, despite the recent media opinion, the current and future financial health of Wigan Athletic is strong and very secure, and I can confirm that the Club is not up for sale.Speculation over clubs being for sale is always rife, and while some potential purchasers have approached the Ownership group on a number of occasions since its acquisition of Wigan Athletic in March 2021, no approaches have ever been entertained.It is only natural that the Club would attract interest given the positive journey it has been on in the last 19 months, but we remain committed in returning the Club to where we believe it belongs in the football pyramid.Football is a business that is very much in the public eye and at times, brings a level of scrutiny not experienced by many other industries.Where appropriate, I am extremely mindful of our duty to inform and notify as many of our stakeholders of Club matters in a timely manner, but there are times where such scrutiny impacts on those who work within the Club on a personal level; discussing pay and payroll is one such topic.I can assure you that funding has never been the reason for any previous delay, and this is still the position in this situation.We are aware of what needs to be done to make sure a late payment situation doesn’t happen again under our tenure, especially as they have recently been as a consequence of a banking process that took much longer than it should have done, once the funds were in the system.The commitment to our Club from Mr Al Jasmi and Talal Al Hammad is unwavering and the very recent announcement on extending Leam Richardson’s contract for a further three years only goes to underline their support.We are all delighted that Leam has committed his future to the Club and that he wants to continue to develop his career at the DW Stadium.While the terms have been agreed for a while now - although not as far back as June 2021 - everyone concerned wanted to wait and officially announce the news during a short visit to Bahrain this week, to discuss a number of Club matters with Mr Al Jasmi and Talal.Leam has their full support and everyone is aligned on what the short, medium and long term goals are for the football operation.Delivering a championship-winning team less than 12 months after avoiding relegation, while instilling a culture and spirit of togetherness, reflects Leam’s character, and those of his staff, and there is a determined resolve to continue to build on the foundations already in place.It may be argued by some that this statement is a little overdue, but I feel it better to occasionally let the dust settle on some matters and ignore those issues that are much more of a speculative nature.I hope that the above has given assurance and answered some of the questions that may have been raised as a consequence of both factual and speculative information over the past couple of days.My own bank’s systems picked up on names and even partial names, to an extent that payments were often delayed. In those cases we often aren’t aware, as a relationship team, that there is even a problem. We are reliant on a screening team to raise an enquiry and go back to the remitting bank for further details (full name, date of birth, address, nature of business, invoices) in order to discount any “hits” on the screening.I looked after the biggest legal & accounting firms and we had to deal with this on a very regular basis. There are ways to put fixes in the system, but they aren’t easy and often rely on manual intervention. If you aren’t used to international transfers, you probably wouldn’t have a clue this happens.14 -
The EFL could enforce it by making certain requirements on owners liability to be able to own a club and keep the golden ticket of league membership. They would not need to change Limited company law. In addition, personal recourse does not have to be unlimited, but having some form of limited recourse would likely be a good way of keeping minds focussed of owners.swordfish said:
That would require changes to limited company law though. If liability was unlimited, it would certainly make owning a Club a less tempting proposition.AndyG said:The key to this is that the fans shouldn't be penalised for having bad owners. The owners should be personally liable and not permitted to walk away leaving carnage behind them
All the footballing authorities can do is try to prevent irresponsible owners getting involved in the first place, which they do as best they can.
I see the points deductions as a way for the EFL to effectively enforce FFP. If league placing has been achieved through paying for players the Club's can't afford, a bit like saying you've been fielding ineligible ones, then it's not fair on other teams. It's not the fans fault, but the alternative would be to get the owners, old or new, to pay compensation to those others instead.
The issue as you point out is they would kill off so many of the potential owners out there as "investors" don't often like any form of personal recourse.
There is an argument this would force out many of those bad owners and force more responsible decisions from owners.
If I recall correctly TS when he bought us was spouting on that all owners should log 1yr running costs with the EFL to be allowed to acquire. I wonder if he still feels that way. Having a budget set each year and equivalent locked into an EFL account meaning if an owner pulled out the club could survive a year whilst they found an owner would be great but is probably unrealistic.2 -
Surely a delay in transfer of funds as very helpfully explained by @TelMc32 above would only happen once ? That’s of course unless the names / partial names and or account numbers and bank details changed regularly ? I’m guessing that once a route of transfer has been scrutinised that it would be absolutely fine in subsequent transfers ?1
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Sadly not @ShootersHillGuru. You have to understand that whilst the system is automatic in terms of screening names, references etc., what happens next is a manual intervention and we are reliant on a team of very junior individuals, often based offshore, to then review the hit. They are meant to have a level of discretion/common sense, but in reality we don’t pay them enough to take that responsibility.ShootersHillGuru said:Surely a delay in transfer of funds as very helpfully explained by @TelMc32 above would only happen once ? That’s of course unless the names / partial names and or account numbers and bank details changed regularly ? I’m guessing that once a route of transfer has been scrutinised that it would be absolutely fine in subsequent transfers ?I have examples of a number of law firms who received regular payments from long-term clients who had partial matches on the names. Every single payment was stopped. It took us a while to even realise we had the funds on some of these because they weren’t in our payments system pending - they’d been removed completely by the sanctions team.The fix is to get senior exec sign off to allow the funds in without further checks. That in itself is difficult as that exec (usually board level) is taking responsibility to the regulator for the bank. But again it is a note on the system, it doesn’t avoid the manual intervention and therefore slows down what should be a straight forward process taking no more than two days.2 - Sponsored links:
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Is this has happened before and they know that issues arise with international bank transfers and they claim that money isn't an issue, then why don't they just do the transfer to the UK a few days earlier.TelMc32 said:
Speaking here as a recently retired bank manager, rather than as a very good friend of the Wigan CEO, it is entirely possible that there is an issue with transferring funds into the UK. The level of sanctions screening that goes into bank transfers, particularly those from abroad, has grown massively in recent years.stonemuse said:
What a load of bollocksMattF said:WIGAN ATHLETIC CHIEF EXECUTIVE, MALACHY BRANNIGAN, PROVIDES THE FOLLOWING UPDATE TO SUPPORTERSClub is not for saleBanking system the cause of delays to employee wages last weekendLeam Richardson signs new three-year contractWigan Athletic Chief Executive, Malachy Brannigan, responds to varying news articles over the last couple of days…The primary message that I want to convey is to assure the Club’s staff, its supporters and its business partners that, despite the recent media opinion, the current and future financial health of Wigan Athletic is strong and very secure, and I can confirm that the Club is not up for sale.Speculation over clubs being for sale is always rife, and while some potential purchasers have approached the Ownership group on a number of occasions since its acquisition of Wigan Athletic in March 2021, no approaches have ever been entertained.It is only natural that the Club would attract interest given the positive journey it has been on in the last 19 months, but we remain committed in returning the Club to where we believe it belongs in the football pyramid.Football is a business that is very much in the public eye and at times, brings a level of scrutiny not experienced by many other industries.Where appropriate, I am extremely mindful of our duty to inform and notify as many of our stakeholders of Club matters in a timely manner, but there are times where such scrutiny impacts on those who work within the Club on a personal level; discussing pay and payroll is one such topic.I can assure you that funding has never been the reason for any previous delay, and this is still the position in this situation.We are aware of what needs to be done to make sure a late payment situation doesn’t happen again under our tenure, especially as they have recently been as a consequence of a banking process that took much longer than it should have done, once the funds were in the system.The commitment to our Club from Mr Al Jasmi and Talal Al Hammad is unwavering and the very recent announcement on extending Leam Richardson’s contract for a further three years only goes to underline their support.We are all delighted that Leam has committed his future to the Club and that he wants to continue to develop his career at the DW Stadium.While the terms have been agreed for a while now - although not as far back as June 2021 - everyone concerned wanted to wait and officially announce the news during a short visit to Bahrain this week, to discuss a number of Club matters with Mr Al Jasmi and Talal.Leam has their full support and everyone is aligned on what the short, medium and long term goals are for the football operation.Delivering a championship-winning team less than 12 months after avoiding relegation, while instilling a culture and spirit of togetherness, reflects Leam’s character, and those of his staff, and there is a determined resolve to continue to build on the foundations already in place.It may be argued by some that this statement is a little overdue, but I feel it better to occasionally let the dust settle on some matters and ignore those issues that are much more of a speculative nature.I hope that the above has given assurance and answered some of the questions that may have been raised as a consequence of both factual and speculative information over the past couple of days.My own bank’s systems picked up on names and even partial names, to an extent that payments were often delayed. In those cases we often aren’t aware, as a relationship team, that there is even a problem. We are reliant on a screening team to raise an enquiry and go back to the remitting bank for further details (full name, date of birth, address, nature of business, invoices) in order to discount any “hits” on the screening.I looked after the biggest legal & accounting firms and we had to deal with this on a very regular basis. There are ways to put fixes in the system, but they aren’t easy and often rely on manual intervention. If you aren’t used to international transfers, you probably wouldn’t have a clue this happens.2 -
I agree, but they may feel this is an issue for the banks to resolve and may have been given reassurances that it won’t happen again. I was very fortunate in that, after 36 years, I knew senior management in our payments and sanctions teams. Without those contacts and my own background, some of the transactions I was trying to resolve myself would have taken much longer.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Is this has happened before and they know that issues arise with international bank transfers and they claim that money isn't an issue, then why don't they just do the transfer to the UK a few days earlier.TelMc32 said:
Speaking here as a recently retired bank manager, rather than as a very good friend of the Wigan CEO, it is entirely possible that there is an issue with transferring funds into the UK. The level of sanctions screening that goes into bank transfers, particularly those from abroad, has grown massively in recent years.stonemuse said:
What a load of bollocksMattF said:WIGAN ATHLETIC CHIEF EXECUTIVE, MALACHY BRANNIGAN, PROVIDES THE FOLLOWING UPDATE TO SUPPORTERSClub is not for saleBanking system the cause of delays to employee wages last weekendLeam Richardson signs new three-year contractWigan Athletic Chief Executive, Malachy Brannigan, responds to varying news articles over the last couple of days…The primary message that I want to convey is to assure the Club’s staff, its supporters and its business partners that, despite the recent media opinion, the current and future financial health of Wigan Athletic is strong and very secure, and I can confirm that the Club is not up for sale.Speculation over clubs being for sale is always rife, and while some potential purchasers have approached the Ownership group on a number of occasions since its acquisition of Wigan Athletic in March 2021, no approaches have ever been entertained.It is only natural that the Club would attract interest given the positive journey it has been on in the last 19 months, but we remain committed in returning the Club to where we believe it belongs in the football pyramid.Football is a business that is very much in the public eye and at times, brings a level of scrutiny not experienced by many other industries.Where appropriate, I am extremely mindful of our duty to inform and notify as many of our stakeholders of Club matters in a timely manner, but there are times where such scrutiny impacts on those who work within the Club on a personal level; discussing pay and payroll is one such topic.I can assure you that funding has never been the reason for any previous delay, and this is still the position in this situation.We are aware of what needs to be done to make sure a late payment situation doesn’t happen again under our tenure, especially as they have recently been as a consequence of a banking process that took much longer than it should have done, once the funds were in the system.The commitment to our Club from Mr Al Jasmi and Talal Al Hammad is unwavering and the very recent announcement on extending Leam Richardson’s contract for a further three years only goes to underline their support.We are all delighted that Leam has committed his future to the Club and that he wants to continue to develop his career at the DW Stadium.While the terms have been agreed for a while now - although not as far back as June 2021 - everyone concerned wanted to wait and officially announce the news during a short visit to Bahrain this week, to discuss a number of Club matters with Mr Al Jasmi and Talal.Leam has their full support and everyone is aligned on what the short, medium and long term goals are for the football operation.Delivering a championship-winning team less than 12 months after avoiding relegation, while instilling a culture and spirit of togetherness, reflects Leam’s character, and those of his staff, and there is a determined resolve to continue to build on the foundations already in place.It may be argued by some that this statement is a little overdue, but I feel it better to occasionally let the dust settle on some matters and ignore those issues that are much more of a speculative nature.I hope that the above has given assurance and answered some of the questions that may have been raised as a consequence of both factual and speculative information over the past couple of days.My own bank’s systems picked up on names and even partial names, to an extent that payments were often delayed. In those cases we often aren’t aware, as a relationship team, that there is even a problem. We are reliant on a screening team to raise an enquiry and go back to the remitting bank for further details (full name, date of birth, address, nature of business, invoices) in order to discount any “hits” on the screening.I looked after the biggest legal & accounting firms and we had to deal with this on a very regular basis. There are ways to put fixes in the system, but they aren’t easy and often rely on manual intervention. If you aren’t used to international transfers, you probably wouldn’t have a clue this happens.1 -
Or always be a month in advance ?Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Is this has happened before and they know that issues arise with international bank transfers and they claim that money isn't an issue, then why don't they just do the transfer to the UK a few days earlier.TelMc32 said:
Speaking here as a recently retired bank manager, rather than as a very good friend of the Wigan CEO, it is entirely possible that there is an issue with transferring funds into the UK. The level of sanctions screening that goes into bank transfers, particularly those from abroad, has grown massively in recent years.stonemuse said:
What a load of bollocksMattF said:WIGAN ATHLETIC CHIEF EXECUTIVE, MALACHY BRANNIGAN, PROVIDES THE FOLLOWING UPDATE TO SUPPORTERSClub is not for saleBanking system the cause of delays to employee wages last weekendLeam Richardson signs new three-year contractWigan Athletic Chief Executive, Malachy Brannigan, responds to varying news articles over the last couple of days…The primary message that I want to convey is to assure the Club’s staff, its supporters and its business partners that, despite the recent media opinion, the current and future financial health of Wigan Athletic is strong and very secure, and I can confirm that the Club is not up for sale.Speculation over clubs being for sale is always rife, and while some potential purchasers have approached the Ownership group on a number of occasions since its acquisition of Wigan Athletic in March 2021, no approaches have ever been entertained.It is only natural that the Club would attract interest given the positive journey it has been on in the last 19 months, but we remain committed in returning the Club to where we believe it belongs in the football pyramid.Football is a business that is very much in the public eye and at times, brings a level of scrutiny not experienced by many other industries.Where appropriate, I am extremely mindful of our duty to inform and notify as many of our stakeholders of Club matters in a timely manner, but there are times where such scrutiny impacts on those who work within the Club on a personal level; discussing pay and payroll is one such topic.I can assure you that funding has never been the reason for any previous delay, and this is still the position in this situation.We are aware of what needs to be done to make sure a late payment situation doesn’t happen again under our tenure, especially as they have recently been as a consequence of a banking process that took much longer than it should have done, once the funds were in the system.The commitment to our Club from Mr Al Jasmi and Talal Al Hammad is unwavering and the very recent announcement on extending Leam Richardson’s contract for a further three years only goes to underline their support.We are all delighted that Leam has committed his future to the Club and that he wants to continue to develop his career at the DW Stadium.While the terms have been agreed for a while now - although not as far back as June 2021 - everyone concerned wanted to wait and officially announce the news during a short visit to Bahrain this week, to discuss a number of Club matters with Mr Al Jasmi and Talal.Leam has their full support and everyone is aligned on what the short, medium and long term goals are for the football operation.Delivering a championship-winning team less than 12 months after avoiding relegation, while instilling a culture and spirit of togetherness, reflects Leam’s character, and those of his staff, and there is a determined resolve to continue to build on the foundations already in place.It may be argued by some that this statement is a little overdue, but I feel it better to occasionally let the dust settle on some matters and ignore those issues that are much more of a speculative nature.I hope that the above has given assurance and answered some of the questions that may have been raised as a consequence of both factual and speculative information over the past couple of days.My own bank’s systems picked up on names and even partial names, to an extent that payments were often delayed. In those cases we often aren’t aware, as a relationship team, that there is even a problem. We are reliant on a screening team to raise an enquiry and go back to the remitting bank for further details (full name, date of birth, address, nature of business, invoices) in order to discount any “hits” on the screening.I looked after the biggest legal & accounting firms and we had to deal with this on a very regular basis. There are ways to put fixes in the system, but they aren’t easy and often rely on manual intervention. If you aren’t used to international transfers, you probably wouldn’t have a clue this happens.0 -
I think the various vagaries of the banking system pass most of us by as the sums we deal with, and the types of transactions, are very unlikely to go wrong.
I briefly worked in multi-currency payments (MCP) at HSBC. Basically every payment that failed to automate through the system dropped out here and was many fixed, plus there were multiple calls centre teams that handled the customers (usually other bank employees) chasing the payments. I worked there in 97/98 and the average daily throughput was £128.4billion. That's just stuff that's failed to automate correctly through HSBC systems in a single day.1 -
Bankers eh. 😉1
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I am now, very happily, an ex-banker! 😉ShootersHillGuru said:Bankers eh. 😉2 -
Again, I’d agree to ensure the welfare of the staff, but I have no idea of the amount involved and many clients (talking as a bank manager here) might say this is your (the banks) issue to resolve and why should I tie up my funds to manage your system issues.ShootersHillGuru said:
Or always be a month in advance ?Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Is this has happened before and they know that issues arise with international bank transfers and they claim that money isn't an issue, then why don't they just do the transfer to the UK a few days earlier.TelMc32 said:
Speaking here as a recently retired bank manager, rather than as a very good friend of the Wigan CEO, it is entirely possible that there is an issue with transferring funds into the UK. The level of sanctions screening that goes into bank transfers, particularly those from abroad, has grown massively in recent years.stonemuse said:
What a load of bollocksMattF said:WIGAN ATHLETIC CHIEF EXECUTIVE, MALACHY BRANNIGAN, PROVIDES THE FOLLOWING UPDATE TO SUPPORTERSClub is not for saleBanking system the cause of delays to employee wages last weekendLeam Richardson signs new three-year contractWigan Athletic Chief Executive, Malachy Brannigan, responds to varying news articles over the last couple of days…The primary message that I want to convey is to assure the Club’s staff, its supporters and its business partners that, despite the recent media opinion, the current and future financial health of Wigan Athletic is strong and very secure, and I can confirm that the Club is not up for sale.Speculation over clubs being for sale is always rife, and while some potential purchasers have approached the Ownership group on a number of occasions since its acquisition of Wigan Athletic in March 2021, no approaches have ever been entertained.It is only natural that the Club would attract interest given the positive journey it has been on in the last 19 months, but we remain committed in returning the Club to where we believe it belongs in the football pyramid.Football is a business that is very much in the public eye and at times, brings a level of scrutiny not experienced by many other industries.Where appropriate, I am extremely mindful of our duty to inform and notify as many of our stakeholders of Club matters in a timely manner, but there are times where such scrutiny impacts on those who work within the Club on a personal level; discussing pay and payroll is one such topic.I can assure you that funding has never been the reason for any previous delay, and this is still the position in this situation.We are aware of what needs to be done to make sure a late payment situation doesn’t happen again under our tenure, especially as they have recently been as a consequence of a banking process that took much longer than it should have done, once the funds were in the system.The commitment to our Club from Mr Al Jasmi and Talal Al Hammad is unwavering and the very recent announcement on extending Leam Richardson’s contract for a further three years only goes to underline their support.We are all delighted that Leam has committed his future to the Club and that he wants to continue to develop his career at the DW Stadium.While the terms have been agreed for a while now - although not as far back as June 2021 - everyone concerned wanted to wait and officially announce the news during a short visit to Bahrain this week, to discuss a number of Club matters with Mr Al Jasmi and Talal.Leam has their full support and everyone is aligned on what the short, medium and long term goals are for the football operation.Delivering a championship-winning team less than 12 months after avoiding relegation, while instilling a culture and spirit of togetherness, reflects Leam’s character, and those of his staff, and there is a determined resolve to continue to build on the foundations already in place.It may be argued by some that this statement is a little overdue, but I feel it better to occasionally let the dust settle on some matters and ignore those issues that are much more of a speculative nature.I hope that the above has given assurance and answered some of the questions that may have been raised as a consequence of both factual and speculative information over the past couple of days.My own bank’s systems picked up on names and even partial names, to an extent that payments were often delayed. In those cases we often aren’t aware, as a relationship team, that there is even a problem. We are reliant on a screening team to raise an enquiry and go back to the remitting bank for further details (full name, date of birth, address, nature of business, invoices) in order to discount any “hits” on the screening.I looked after the biggest legal & accounting firms and we had to deal with this on a very regular basis. There are ways to put fixes in the system, but they aren’t easy and often rely on manual intervention. If you aren’t used to international transfers, you probably wouldn’t have a clue this happens.
I have no idea whether this is the issue at all for Wigan. It could be that there really is a problem, but my friend is convinced otherwise.0 -
Exactly. Once you made a payment before surely the systems know the details & you can then make further paymenrts without trouble. We all do this daily with DDM's, SO's and payments we make to other people.ShootersHillGuru said:Surely a delay in transfer of funds as very helpfully explained by @TelMc32 above would only happen once ? That’s of course unless the names / partial names and or account numbers and bank details changed regularly ? I’m guessing that once a route of transfer has been scrutinised that it would be absolutely fine in subsequent transfers ?
If a payment was delayed from Wigans owners to the players & staff bank accounts then I reckon it was because the payment was coming from somewhere new.....or that they just paid it late.0 -
There is a question of degree here.
Yes the like of Derby and others gambled everything to get to the PL and crashed. However excuse me if my numbers are not 100% but.
Charlton turnover circa 12 mill
Wages aprox 100% of turnover, not profit.
According to most sources TS been one, we lose around 8 mill per year.
Whilst this not exactly Derby level finances, its not a sustainable business model either.
So my question is, apart form size of the numbers. What is the difference between us and virtually every club. We are all effectively "cheating" to get further up the greasy pole?0 -
Not neccesarily a change in the law. I seem to remember Peter Varney coming up with an idea of all owners putting a bond with EFL that would protect clubs themselves from reckless owners.swordfish said:
That would require changes to limited company law though. If liability was unlimited, it would certainly make owning a Club a less tempting proposition.AndyG said:The key to this is that the fans shouldn't be penalised for having bad owners. The owners should be personally liable and not permitted to walk away leaving carnage behind them
All the footballing authorities can do is try to prevent irresponsible owners getting involved in the first place, which they do as best they can.
I see the points deductions as a way for the EFL to effectively enforce FFP. If league placing has been achieved through paying for players the Club's can't afford, a bit like saying you've been fielding ineligible ones, then it's not fair on other teams. It's not the fans fault, but the alternative would be to get the owners, old or new, to pay compensation to those others instead.3 - Sponsored links:
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I'm unsure to what extent the footballing authorities powers are limited by overriding legislation that might prevent them from applying such measures though, certainly not without them going unchallenged.Athletico Charlton said:
The EFL could enforce it by making certain requirements on owners liability to be able to own a club and keep the golden ticket of league membership. They would not need to change Limited company law. In addition, personal recourse does not have to be unlimited, but having some form of limited recourse would likely be a good way of keeping minds focussed of owners.swordfish said:
That would require changes to limited company law though. If liability was unlimited, it would certainly make owning a Club a less tempting proposition.AndyG said:The key to this is that the fans shouldn't be penalised for having bad owners. The owners should be personally liable and not permitted to walk away leaving carnage behind them
All the footballing authorities can do is try to prevent irresponsible owners getting involved in the first place, which they do as best they can.
I see the points deductions as a way for the EFL to effectively enforce FFP. If league placing has been achieved through paying for players the Club's can't afford, a bit like saying you've been fielding ineligible ones, then it's not fair on other teams. It's not the fans fault, but the alternative would be to get the owners, old or new, to pay compensation to those others instead.
The issue as you point out is they would kill off so many of the potential owners out there as "investors" don't often like any form of personal recourse.
There is an argument this would force out many of those bad owners and force more responsible decisions from owners.
If I recall correctly TS when he bought us was spouting on that all owners should log 1yr running costs with the EFL to be allowed to acquire. I wonder if he still feels that way. Having a budget set each year and equivalent locked into an EFL account meaning if an owner pulled out the club could survive a year whilst they found an owner would be great but is probably unrealistic.
We saw an example of that when the Salary Cap imposition proposal ended up being scrapped I think.
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Sadly it definitely doesn’t work this way, I can have 4-5 transfers work smoothly, then out of nowhere, nope and that’s without even considering the difficulty in sending money out of the country at this end.golfaddick said:
Exactly. Once you made a payment before surely the systems know the details & you can then make further paymenrts without trouble.ShootersHillGuru said:Surely a delay in transfer of funds as very helpfully explained by @TelMc32 above would only happen once ? That’s of course unless the names / partial names and or account numbers and bank details changed regularly ? I’m guessing that once a route of transfer has been scrutinised that it would be absolutely fine in subsequent transfers ?1 -
As I followed up on above @golfaddick it sadly isn’t that easy. You are referencing UK payments above, most of which are now covered by account confirmation (systems are now in place for checking the account name matches the sort code/account number you have input). That does not happen with international payments.golfaddick said:
Exactly. Once you made a payment before surely the systems know the details & you can then make further paymenrts without trouble. We all do this daily with DDM's, SO's and payments we make to other people.ShootersHillGuru said:Surely a delay in transfer of funds as very helpfully explained by @TelMc32 above would only happen once ? That’s of course unless the names / partial names and or account numbers and bank details changed regularly ? I’m guessing that once a route of transfer has been scrutinised that it would be absolutely fine in subsequent transfers ?
If a payment was delayed from Wigans owners to the players & staff bank accounts then I reckon it was because the payment was coming from somewhere new.....or that they just paid it late.All payments, including the UK ones, are screened for names, details in reference fields (more common in international payments), amounts etc. UK banks process hundreds of thousands of these every single day. I think you would be surprised at how small the teams are that have to manage any drop outs from the straight through processing, either due to sanction hits or just errors in the info input by the remitter (either directly, which is usual now, or their bank on their behalf). As I said above, there are potential fixes, but they aren’t straightforward.0 -
Wigan aren't the only club with foreign owners, bringing cash into the country to pay footballers' wages. The banking systems may be more difficult to navigate now but nobody else seems to have issues with it - unless you are Derby...... last year.... oh....
See what I did there!1 -
Iirc the salary cap was I think breaking some kind of employment law (may be wrong) and was always unfair as it did not take account of a clubs size and finances but was one size fits all.swordfish said:
I'm unsure to what extent the footballing authorities powers are limited by overriding legislation that might prevent them from applying such measures though, certainly not without them going unchallenged.Athletico Charlton said:
The EFL could enforce it by making certain requirements on owners liability to be able to own a club and keep the golden ticket of league membership. They would not need to change Limited company law. In addition, personal recourse does not have to be unlimited, but having some form of limited recourse would likely be a good way of keeping minds focussed of owners.swordfish said:
That would require changes to limited company law though. If liability was unlimited, it would certainly make owning a Club a less tempting proposition.AndyG said:The key to this is that the fans shouldn't be penalised for having bad owners. The owners should be personally liable and not permitted to walk away leaving carnage behind them
All the footballing authorities can do is try to prevent irresponsible owners getting involved in the first place, which they do as best they can.
I see the points deductions as a way for the EFL to effectively enforce FFP. If league placing has been achieved through paying for players the Club's can't afford, a bit like saying you've been fielding ineligible ones, then it's not fair on other teams. It's not the fans fault, but the alternative would be to get the owners, old or new, to pay compensation to those others instead.
The issue as you point out is they would kill off so many of the potential owners out there as "investors" don't often like any form of personal recourse.
There is an argument this would force out many of those bad owners and force more responsible decisions from owners.
If I recall correctly TS when he bought us was spouting on that all owners should log 1yr running costs with the EFL to be allowed to acquire. I wonder if he still feels that way. Having a budget set each year and equivalent locked into an EFL account meaning if an owner pulled out the club could survive a year whilst they found an owner would be great but is probably unrealistic.
We saw an example of that when the Salary Cap imposition proposal ended up being scrapped I think.
The EFL is essentially a members club so can impose rules on its members. If it imposed a rule saying every owner needed to lodge a years running costs with the EFL which was resized annually then I don't see that that would break any law and would be a rule of being in the club. It would bring some stability but not solve every issue. The EFL would no doubt worry it would put some investors off which, in turn, see clubs go to the wall so not perfect but not impossible.1 -
All people who have never worked in corporate banking "This is ridiculous. It's 2022, this should never happen"All people who have worked in corporate banking "Yeah this is not a surprise at all. Stuff like this is basically managed by some junior, in an off shore location, who probably has a backlog of these to get through"1
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Listened to The Price of Football. By now I can usually tell when Kieran Maguire has a strong insider source, and I don't think he has one here, yet, But he was very suspicious of their excuses. Reminded us that the last time they cited the Queen's Jubilee. I might have expected him to be aware of the issue with int. transfers that @TelMc32 points out, but maybe I over-estimate the breadth of KM's financial experience. I'll DM him about it, he's a big Dossier fan so he usually relies. Maybe anyway we need to pause before calling this one, given what Tel has pointed out.3
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Perhaps Wigan's owners had your problem @PragueAddick and could only transfer over £10k at a time....😄😄😄PragueAddick said:Listened to The Price of Football. By now I can usually tell when Kieran Maguire has a strong insider source, and I don't think he has one here, yet, But he was very suspicious of their excuses. Reminded us that the last time they cited the Queen's Jubilee. I might have expected him to be aware of the issue with int. transfers that @TelMc32 points out, but maybe I over-estimate the breadth of KM's financial experience. I'll DM him about it, he's a big Dossier fan so he usually relies. Maybe anyway we need to pause before calling this one, given what Tel has pointed out.1 -
It’s a possible explanation @PragueAddick. I wouldn’t ask my friend outright what’s going on and I certainly wouldn’t put anything we say out in the public domain, but I’ve offered to help if he thinks there’s anything I can do.PragueAddick said:Listened to The Price of Football. By now I can usually tell when Kieran Maguire has a strong insider source, and I don't think he has one here, yet, But he was very suspicious of their excuses. Reminded us that the last time they cited the Queen's Jubilee. I might have expected him to be aware of the issue with int. transfers that @TelMc32 points out, but maybe I over-estimate the breadth of KM's financial experience. I'll DM him about it, he's a big Dossier fan so he usually relies. Maybe anyway we need to pause before calling this one, given what Tel has pointed out.2 -
Wigan Athletic have admitted a delay in paying wages, blaming it on "liquidity issues".
The Championship club said they are addressing the issue, "will ensure wage payments are made promptly going forward" and that the EFL is "aware of the current situation".
"This is a temporary matter which is promptly being resolved," it said.
Earlier this week Wigan announced losses of £7.7m for the financial year ending 30 June 2022.
"The club has been disrupted by recent liquidity issues and this continues to be the case, hence the current situation," the statement added.
"The club wants to emphasise that the financial strength of our ownership group remains robust and they are committed to supporting the club."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64924847
https://wiganathletic.com/news/2023/march/10/club-statement--wages/
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